Wulfram
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Wulfram on Dec 20, 2016 21:46:47 GMT
Quick question for those who did not like the crafting in DA I, collecting all the materials: When you were out and about did you spend play time suggestions just collecting crafting materials? I picked up materials on the way to other stuff, which was still a drag. And occasionally I went on trips to shops to buy leather, since collecting it is such a hassle.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 20, 2016 21:49:42 GMT
Quick question for those who did not like the crafting in DA I, collecting all the materials: When you were out and about did you spend play time suggestions just collecting crafting materials? I picked up materials on the way to other stuff, which was still a drag. And occasionally I went on trips to shops to buy leather, since collecting it is such a hassle. Not really such a drag as long as you don't do it too much, do it in small incrments, I found, still keeps things fresh. Even with a normal play through play session I can collect a lot of materials.
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Thrombin
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 20, 2016 21:53:25 GMT
I'll admit I don't know first hand what a scenario without Wrex or Eve is like, but regardless, if the game portrayed it that way, then the game is wrong. I've argued in other places that krogan becoming a galactic threat again is about as likely as the Protheans returning. Simply put, they have nothing. Take EDI's discussion of the logistics of deploying krogan to Palaven and extrapolate for a new Rebellion. It can't happen. And really, you can forget about ships and fleets, since krogan lack the infrastructure on Tuchanka to even support basic needs like food and medicine. Consider the outside support they've been receiving even prior to the war (was it the turians or the asari who organized food drops every now and then) and their self-destructive tendencies which have nothing to do with the genophage and everything to do with krogan mentality. Now apply that in a post Reaper war setting where the other races a) are in no mood for further shenaningans, have plenty to do rebuilding and feeding their own and c) it's really implausible they're that stupid to arm and supply the krogan a second time, even if they had surpluses to spare somehow. I don't think the Krogans were big on ships/fleets during the original Krogan Rebellion either but they were still a huge threat that took a drastic measure like the genophage to stop. There's nothing really different this time round except that the other races are going to take much longer to recover from the Reapers than the Krogan will. masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Krogan_RebellionsThe Krogan are currently allies and did their bit for the war. The other races have no grounds to prevent their colonization and expansion this time round so I don't really see the difference here. The thing is, they are hugely capable and resilient fighters with an aggressive mentality and overwhelming survivability and numbers. The Salarians considered them a threat and, even if they ultimately don't stand a chance they are going to be doing a lot of damage in the meantime. If not to others then to themselves. Wreave leaves us with no doubts about where the future is heading: Makes you glad you didn't cure the genophage when Wreave's in charge
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Dec 20, 2016 21:58:19 GMT
I lost track of the number of trips I made to the Hissing Wastes waiting for that frakking dog merchant to carry the armor schematic I wanted. I accumulated a LOT of volcanic aurum in the process, let me tell you! I never had to do that. Or at leat never wanted to. Granted there were a few schematics I want I have never found but I am not going to intentionally toture myself too much when there are other options available. I spent a perk to get "special" items to appear on merchants from time to time, and I was going to get that armor! Too bad it turned out to be based on a RNG and said merchant could carry THREE different schematics (or none of them) any given time you visited.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 20, 2016 23:34:51 GMT
They are absolute in the way the player character adresses the topic at hand. You wouldn't have a Paragon option where Shepard would start punching, right? But is that a problem? That's just the how the structure of the dialogue/narrative is built. It doesn't speak about overall morality and good/evil choices, which is what has been discussed here. Whatever - go read the German article then you like to discuss about.
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Post by havox on Dec 21, 2016 0:00:07 GMT
There was this weird bug/feature in DA:I where if you looted a container only partially, leaving at least one item behind, the game wouldn't flag that container as looted, next time the area loaded it would have another bunch of random loot. Cradle of Sulevin was an ok place to repeatedly grind recipes, there was also an easy farming chest in some cave close to travel point, the name escapes me. All in all, a terrible drag, having to find blueprints again fills me with dread.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 21, 2016 2:06:58 GMT
I've listed a few of them on this thread but, here are some I remember: Saving Maelon's data in ME2 leads to Eve dying in ME3 Saving the Geth Heretics in ME2 leads to more Quarian casualties in ME3 (and makes it more difficult to reconcile both races) Saving the Council in ME1 causes serious casualties and losses amongst the Earth fleets affecting your ME3 war assets. Allowing refugee ships to land in ME3 despite the overcrowding causes issues which negatively affect your war assets. Curing the Genophage gets Mordin killed and loses Salarian support (Mordin can be saved with the right options). Not going Renegade when talking to Kelly Chambers in ME3 gets her killed In Samara's recruitment mission in ME2 if you go paragon and don't kill Elnora when you meet her she will end up killing the Volus If you save Rana, the Asari Scientist on Virmire in ME1 there is a news report that she went crazy and killed a bunch of people and then committed suicide in ME3. If you were renegade and killed the Rachni Queen in ME1 but go paragon and rescue the Queen Clone in ME3 the Rachni will get sent to the Crucible but end up turning bad and killing people. I'm sure there are more. Some of your list are inaccurate. I'm posting from a phone, so there's no way I can spoiler block these. Saving Maelon's data in ME2 leads to Eve dying in ME3. Saving Maelon's data in ME2 saves Eve in ME3. Maybe this was a typo? This was hardly a renegade choice, it is simply a choice. P/R choices are color-coded Blue and Red for clarity. People try to project their own morality, and even the choice's position on the dialogue wheel, and interpret them as P/R.Saving the Geth Heretics in ME2 leads to more Quarian casualties in ME3, and makes it more difficult to reconcile both races. I've never encountered any difficulties making peace. Saving the heretics means a more powerful geth force to take into battle against the reapers. It's a net gain, in the end.
Saving the Council in ME1 causes serious casualties and losses amongst the Earth fleets affecting your ME3 war assets. Letting them die makes the road arguably much more difficult.
Curing the Genophage gets Mordin killed and loses Salarian support (Mordin can be saved with the right options). Saving the krogan is a net gain, if I'm not mistaken.
Not going Renegade when talking to Kelly Chambers in ME3 gets her killed. The lower line of two neutral options is not a "renegade option", especially when talking common sense to a friend.This series was definitely rigged in favor of the Paragon Shepard. It was very rarely disadvantageous to make the paragon choice. This is one big reason I look forward to seeing P/R go bye-bye. BioWare simply couldn't resist making Paragon an "I win" button. Renegade isn't much better, of course, and generally carries with it the stink of being a needless a-hole. Edit: Notice themikefest's post below which corrects a couple of my war asset assumptions.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 21, 2016 3:05:14 GMT
Saving the Council in ME1 causes serious casualties and losses amongst the Earth fleets affecting your ME3 war assets. Letting them die makes the road arguably much more difficult.Why does it make it arguably more difficult? The only difference is the number of war assets. Since the extended cut lowered the number to 3100, for the breath scene, it doesn't matter Its not. Having Wreav in charge and sabotaging the cure will give more war assets when the number includes the assets from the salarians Playing a paragon can do more damage than a renegade depending on the playthrough
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 21, 2016 3:14:39 GMT
Saving the Council in ME1 causes serious casualties and losses amongst the Earth fleets affecting your ME3 war assets. Letting them die makes the road arguably much more difficult.Why does it make it arguably more difficult? The only difference is the number of war assets. Since the extended cut lowered the number to 3100, for the breath scene, it doesn't matter Its not. Having Wreav in charge and sabotaging the cure will give more war assets when the number includes the assets from the salarians Playing a paragon can do more damage than a renegade depending on the playthrough I defer to your expertise on the topic of war assets. With the last bit, I was referring to BioWare's propensity for writing the renegade as a jackass instead of a pragmatist. You could argue that the paragon is a fool, I guess, but I think they bless the fool with unnaturally favorable outcomes, frequently.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 21, 2016 3:23:56 GMT
I defer to your expertise on the topic of war assets. Just in case folks want to know, they can look at this thread to know more about war assets
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 21, 2016 5:59:36 GMT
I don't think the Krogans were big on ships/fleets during the original Krogan Rebellion either but they were still a huge threat that took a drastic measure like the genophage to stop. There's nothing really different this time round except that the other races are going to take much longer to recover from the Reapers than the Krogan will. masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Krogan_RebellionsThe Krogan are currently allies and did their bit for the war. The other races have no grounds to prevent their colonization and expansion this time round so I don't really see the difference here. The thing is, they are hugely capable and resilient fighters with an aggressive mentality and overwhelming survivability and numbers. The Salarians considered them a threat and, even if they ultimately don't stand a chance they are going to be doing a lot of damage in the meantime. If not to others then to themselves. Wreave leaves us with no doubts about where the future is heading: Makes you glad you didn't cure the genophage when Wreave's in charge You forget we're in space. How will krogan "colonize and expand" to planets when even getting their depleted numbers in the right place to fight Reapers is a challenge. Are we expecting krogan to headbutt their way through a carpet bombing? During the Rebellions, the krogan absolutely had ships, weapons, infrastructure. They had just come out of a war they were uplifted and armed to fight. That very link you gave me gives you all the details. Krogan planets went dark due to computer virus sabotage. Antimatter refineries were sabotaged by Spectres. Space station command centers were blown up by suicide bombers. And the krogan themselves dropped asteroids on the turians, rendering three worlds inhabitable. I kind of doubt they just backhanded said asteroids onto their trajectories. The krogan have nothing. Their world was bombed out and depleted long before the Rebellions or the genophage. They have no infrastructure, they have no ships, they don't even have raw resources or arable land to sustain a population boom. And that's not even considering their psychology as a broken and ultimately suicidal race. Krogan fight aimlessly now, they're just as likely to kill each other as anyone else. Wrex seized control by forcibly holding hostage a precious commodity: fertile females. Which, curing the genophage kind of blows out of the water by the way. Neither Wrex nor Wreav would logically have much to stand on to command the loyalty of the clans such as they are after that goes away. Finally, the genophage was cured by having the Shroud disperse cure particles in Tuchanka's atmosphere. How much of the krogan population were on Tuchanka at that point and how many are scattered elsewhere? I don't need to point out the latter are no more cured of the genophage than I am. I also shouldn't need to point out that a precision orbital strike (which the krogan can't do shit about seeing as they have no ships) can take out the Shroud preventing, not only the dispersal of the cure but also the continued stabilization of Tuchanka's atmosphere. So worst case scenario, if all these logistical and psychological problems are magically overcome by the power of plot, a single strike not only puts an end to the krogan cure and resurgence but also their whole freakin planet. Any way you slice it, krogan have only one real choice- adapt or die. The decision to cure the genophage just determines if they continue to have training wheels or not.
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Post by javeart on Dec 21, 2016 10:18:13 GMT
I picked up materials on the way to other stuff, which was still a drag. And occasionally I went on trips to shops to buy leather, since collecting it is such a hassle. Not really such a drag as long as you don't do it too much, do it in small incrments, I found, still keeps things fresh. Even with a normal play through play session I can collect a lot of materials. For me it's really a drag, even if it's something you do only while you are travelling to a new destination. It makes it all much slower. Even just buying materials was tiresome at times, as said Wulfram in an earlier post, thanks to all the loading screens (I really hate loading screens, one the best news I've got regarding MEA is no load screens in the Tempest ). I hated the resource gathering quite a bit, and I only bother with crafting if I'm doing a completionist pt, in fact. I'm optimistic about MEA though, it seems it might be less annoying.
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Post by SofNascimento on Dec 21, 2016 10:27:20 GMT
I'd say consequences are not really what matters here.
For example, saving Maelon's data is not a straight foward decision because of itself. Even if it might lead to a perceived better outcome, one could easily argue that saving a data that used inhumane methods is wrong.
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Post by Ahriman on Dec 21, 2016 10:50:50 GMT
Not really such a drag as long as you don't do it too much, do it in small incrments, I found, still keeps things fresh. Even with a normal play through play session I can collect a lot of materials. I'm optimistic about MEA though, it seems it might be less annoying. Lithium gathering screen was more exciting than DAI inventory? I'm curious what makes you think so.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 21, 2016 10:57:47 GMT
Some of your list are inaccurate. I'm posting from a phone, so there's no way I can spoiler block these. Saving Maelon's data in ME2 leads to Eve dying in ME3. Saving Maelon's data in ME2 saves Eve in ME3. Maybe this was a typo? This was hardly a renegade choice, it is simply a choice. P/R choices are color-coded Blue and Red for clarity. People try to project their own morality, and even the choice's position on the dialogue wheel, and interpret them as P/R.Yes, sorry, I meant destroying the data. It was still a paragon choice which leads to Eve's death, though. Upper quadrant is paragon, lower quadrant is renegade. Position on the wheel is absolutely relevant. Have you not noticed the paragon or renegade points you earn from these choices? The game has been consistent with that since ME1. I'm not talking about advantage in the game, I'm talking about consequences that might matter from a gray morality standpoint. Your good-intentioned decision led to Quarian deaths. A tougher line would have saved Quarian lives. Same goes for the other observations. I'm not just talking about the numbers. Mordin dying is tragic and Renegade can save him. As for making peace, there is a score that you need in order to make peace: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/59270/brokering-peace-between-quarian-and-geth-options-dont-appearYou get an extra 2 points towards that score by destroying the Heretics. I don't really look to Paragon or Renegade as a means to maximize war assets or advantage in the game. It's all about the kind of character you want to play. I've played full renegade, full paragon, paragade, renegon and even a neutral who never used Charm options. I have all the DLC and I always do every mission so I have never had any problem getting maximum assets or the results I want every time. I never really had a problem with the system.
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Post by javeart on Dec 21, 2016 10:59:13 GMT
I'm optimistic about MEA though, it seems it might be less annoying. Lithium gathering screen was more exciting than DAI inventory? I'm curious what makes you think so. of course, lythium it's just more fun I'm not talking about the whole crafting system, because my problem was not with crafting itself, only resource gathering, and, apparently now the nomad can help you with that (here I'm taking only others posters word for it, because I missed where or when this was explained), animations seem to take less time and in one the videos we could see that scanning a piece of lythium gave us 40 units or something like that , or that's what it seemed (which, of course, will mean nothing if it turns out that to build a helmet you need 1000 units of lythium, but I'm hoping that's not the case).
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 21, 2016 13:10:36 GMT
Some of your list are inaccurate. I'm posting from a phone, so there's no way I can spoiler block these. Saving Maelon's data in ME2 leads to Eve dying in ME3. Saving Maelon's data in ME2 saves Eve in ME3. Maybe this was a typo? This was hardly a renegade choice, it is simply a choice. P/R choices are color-coded Blue and Red for clarity. People try to project their own morality, and even the choice's position on the dialogue wheel, and interpret them as P/R.Yes, sorry, I meant destroying the data. It was still a paragon choice which leads to Eve's death, though. Upper quadrant is paragon, lower quadrant is renegade. Position on the wheel is absolutely relevant. Have you not noticed the paragon or renegade points you earn from these choices? The game has been consistent with that since ME1. I'm not talking about advantage in the game, I'm talking about consequences that might matter from a gray morality standpoint. Your good-intentioned decision led to Quarian deaths. A tougher line would have saved Quarian lives. Same goes for the other observations. I'm not just talking about the numbers. Mordin dying is tragic and Renegade can save him. As for making peace, there is a score that you need in order to make peace: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/59270/brokering-peace-between-quarian-and-geth-options-dont-appearYou get an extra 2 points towards that score by destroying the Heretics. I don't really look to Paragon or Renegade as a means to maximize war assets or advantage in the game. It's all about the kind of character you want to play. I've played full renegade, full paragon, paragade, renegon and even a neutral who never used Charm options. I have all the DLC and I always do every mission so I have never had any problem getting maximum assets or the results I want every time. I never really had a problem with the system. This is more in line with how I play my own characters. It was the way Fredward phrased the question about "worse results", and the way it was answered, that caused me to respond with war assets. Many of what you might be considering "better" results I'm simply considering "different". The game is full of grey areas in which neither choice can be made to seem 100% squeaky clean. As to the P/R reward for unmarked choices, I knew it was happening for some, but not for that one. I'd call BS on Renegade points for that choice. The fact that 0 souls were hurt by my actions, combined with the results of said actions, prove my point. I'll be really glad to see P/R gone. It's a silly game mechanic for this type of game. I always made it a point not to examine the unmarked choices too carefully. It's a bit like trying to play a Paladin with a dumbass DM. You know that you have the superior moral compass in real life, and it could prove to be a great asset in-game. Yet, dumbass keeps interfering with arbitrary nonsense. The P/R system was never that important, but BioWare's idea of what deserved P/R points often made me scratch my head. In the end, it all added up okay, which is what truly mattered; so they definitely had rigged a system.
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 21, 2016 15:16:48 GMT
This is more in line with how I play my own characters. It was the way Fredward phrased the question about "worse results", and the way it was answered, that caused me to respond with war assets. Many of what you might be considering "better" results I'm simply considering "different". The game is full of grey areas in which neither choice can be made to seem 100% squeaky clean. Yeah, which is kind of my original point. Highlighting the fact that there's already plenty of gray decision-making in the original trilogy. The concept isn't new for MEA. As a D&D veteran I never really had an issue except when it seemed to veer from Law vs Chaos to Good vs Evil. Some of the Renegade stuff went a bit far, I thought, to the point where I started not liking my Shepard! I reserved one Shepard for the full on black sheep, Shepard. She was the only one where I could bring myself to let all the hostages die in the Bring Down the Sky dlc. Some Paladins can be real bastards, really. Inflexible, intolerant, unforgiving fanatics! LG to the max
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Post by Iakus on Dec 21, 2016 15:20:36 GMT
You forget we're in space. How will krogan "colonize and expand" to planets when even getting their depleted numbers in the right place to fight Reapers is a challenge. Are we expecting krogan to headbutt their way through a carpet bombing? During the Rebellions, the krogan absolutely had ships, weapons, infrastructure. They had just come out of a war they were uplifted and armed to fight. That very link you gave me gives you all the details. Krogan planets went dark due to computer virus sabotage. Antimatter refineries were sabotaged by Spectres. Space station command centers were blown up by suicide bombers. And the krogan themselves dropped asteroids on the turians, rendering three worlds inhabitable. I kind of doubt they just backhanded said asteroids onto their trajectories. The krogan have nothing. Their world was bombed out and depleted long before the Rebellions or the genophage. They have no infrastructure, they have no ships, they don't even have raw resources or arable land to sustain a population boom. And that's not even considering their psychology as a broken and ultimately suicidal race. Krogan fight aimlessly now, they're just as likely to kill each other as anyone else. Wrex seized control by forcibly holding hostage a precious commodity: fertile females. Which, curing the genophage kind of blows out of the water by the way. Neither Wrex nor Wreav would logically have much to stand on to command the loyalty of the clans such as they are after that goes away. Finally, the genophage was cured by having the Shroud disperse cure particles in Tuchanka's atmosphere. How much of the krogan population were on Tuchanka at that point and how many are scattered elsewhere? I don't need to point out the latter are no more cured of the genophage than I am. I also shouldn't need to point out that a precision orbital strike (which the krogan can't do shit about seeing as they have no ships) can take out the Shroud preventing, not only the dispersal of the cure but also the continued stabilization of Tuchanka's atmosphere. So worst case scenario, if all these logistical and psychological problems are magically overcome by the power of plot, a single strike not only puts an end to the krogan cure and resurgence but also their whole freakin planet. Any way you slice it, krogan have only one real choice- adapt or die. The decision to cure the genophage just determines if they continue to have training wheels or not. The Krogan arc is illogical for many reasons, the first problem is that the Krogan shouldn't really be dying according to the numbers of the Genophage. One viable birth per year per female should put them ahead of most species reproduction rates. (unless even the one birth per year is only true for a few fertile females) And the fact that curing the Genophage actually pulls the carpet from under Wrex because suddenly there's no real need to protect fertile females, and everyone can go back to squirting a thousand babies every time, thus devaluing individual Krogan life and ultimately leading to the same vicious headbutting over resources and living space. The Krogan only have a motivation to change their culture when every life is precious, Wrex should be cunning enough to understand that. And even that is very uncertain if the whole change is dependent on two individuals, because as strong as Wrex and Eve may be, they can still die. As for the level of potential danger from the Krogan due to their lack of heavy industry and ships, while that's true in the short run, after curing the Genophage you will face a Krogan population explosion. It won't take more than a few generations for them to start moving to other planets due to sheer necessity, and slowly but surely they will develop technology as well. The thing is, the Krogan don't need technology on the level of the Salarians or the Asari to be a threat, they just need a lot of it, and to make it sturdy enough to take some punishment. Think the Orks from WH40K, the Krogan may not be quite as fast with their reproduction, but they still have the potential to drown the galaxy with sheer numbers. True one live birth per year may be a lot for most species, but it's one per year on a radioactive ball of rock in an already harsh climate and in an extremely violent culture. Once the genophage is cured, I'm sure Wrex and Eve would want to put in some sort of population controls. And yeah, it's a gamble that they can control the krogan, but both of them have reputations that command respect. Wrex also states he intends to petition the council to get some of the krogans' old colony worlds back. Basically, the question is, after laboring under the genophage for over a thousand years, and with the leadership of Wrex and/or Eve, can the krogan be trusted now to behave?
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Post by Iakus on Dec 21, 2016 15:41:52 GMT
True one live birth per year may be a lot for most species, but it's one per year on a radioactive ball of rock in an already harsh climate and in an extremely violent culture. Once the genophage is cured, I'm sure Wrex and Eve would want to put in some sort of population controls. And yeah, it's a gamble that they can control the krogan, but both of them have reputations that command respect. Wrex also states he intends to petition the council to get some of the krogans' old colony worlds back. Basically, the question is, after laboring under the genophage for over a thousand years, and with the leadership of Wrex and/or Eve, can the krogan be trusted now to behave? First I doubt that all Krogan live on that radioactive ball of dust, also, you are forgetting that the Krogan as they are now are already adapted to live on that hellhole, redundant organs, redundant nervous system, an ability to regenerate like Wolverine, etc. To say that Krogans are tough is an understatement. In any case, 1000 births per year will still lead to a population explosion. And again, pinning your hopes on two individuals is not terribly realistic, especially after the only effective leverage they had (protection of fertile females) is gone. The pretty wall paintings and the misty eyed talk about Krogan culture is all well and good, but without a real reason to push a change in the psyche of the Krogan, they will just slip back into old habits, it takes more than some ideology and good will for such a dramatic change. The vast majority of krogan do live on Tuchanka, though. Including all their fertile females. They may have adapted to it, but it certainly isn't ideal for them. Sure krogan are tough. But they still have insane customs like fighting thresher maws on foot to prove their manhood. They got to spend a thousand years living in the bombed-out wreckage of their old civilization with no hope of recovery. Yeah there will be plenty of krogan out for payback for that, but there will be other krogan out there who will want to rebuild the krogan and keep this from happening again. Like I said, it's a question of whether you trust Wrex and Eve to make something better of the krogan. Have enough adopted their way of thinking?
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Post by Sartoz on Dec 21, 2016 15:44:23 GMT
Quick question for those who did not like the crafting in DA I, collecting all the materials: When you were out and about did you spend play time suggestions just collecting crafting materials? I lost track of the number of trips I made to the Hissing Wastes waiting for that frakking dog merchant to carry the armor schematic I wanted. I accumulated a LOT of volcanic aurum in the process, let me tell you! *´¨) ¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨) (¸.•´ (¸.•` ¤ Mass Effect Andromeda
Another reason why I hate a game that forces me to collect materiel for crafting.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 21, 2016 15:51:38 GMT
I only ever cure the genophage because I knew BioWare wouldn't ask me to face the consequences. There is no way I'd ever actually trust the krogan to turn around so quickly. Just because Wrex is my buddy, and says they'll change? Riiiiight.
The salarians screwed the krogan when they uplifted them. Now, though, the krogan should fix themselves. If they want a cure, let them settle their aggressive natures enough to develop real krogan science. A krogan scientist can cure the genophage. Anyone else would be insane to do so. If they got to the point of being able to even attempt real research, develop and display a peacable culture, etc... then maybe someone pitches in with assistance.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 21, 2016 16:24:36 GMT
The vast majority of krogan do live on Tuchanka, though. Including all their fertile females. They may have adapted to it, but it certainly isn't ideal for them. Sure krogan are tough. But they still have insane customs like fighting thresher maws on foot to prove their manhood. They got to spend a thousand years living in the bombed-out wreckage of their old civilization with no hope of recovery. Yeah there will be plenty of krogan out for payback for that, but there will be other krogan out there who will want to rebuild the krogan and keep this from happening again. Like I said, it's a question of whether you trust Wrex and Eve to make something better of the krogan. Have enough adopted their way of thinking? Again, all true, but a thousand births per female per year will still lead to an insane population explosion. (do think about the insane numbers, and what happens when all the little Krogies reach breeding age themselves) As for "trust", it doesn't really matter. My point is that even if you trust them and their good will personally, they simply won't be able to get enough traction on public opinion without the very convincing argument they had before you cured the Genophage. The argument of survival is a strong one, without it Wrex is just another tough Krogan with an opinion in a nation full of tough Krogans with opinions. Realistically, Wrex should be smart enough to shoot down the idea of curing the Genophage himself. I could see something like a partial gradual cure working, but anything that brings breeding rate to what it was before the Krogan rebellions is simply a bad idea. At the time of ME3 the Krogan are simply not culturally ready for a complete cure to the Genophage, just as they weren't ready culturally to be uplifted initially. You don't have to trust the krogan though. They are still demilitarized. No warships, no large-scale industries. Heck, they have to hitch a ride from the quarians to reach Palaven to fight. So I asay, cure the genophage, give them a couple of planets that aren't so dinged up. Keep them demilitarized for a while and...see what happens when left to develop on their own. If they try to go to war again, not only will they be using shotguns against cruisers, but they'll be facing four Council races rather than two (the turians and humans will be in it from the start)
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 21, 2016 16:28:09 GMT
The Krogan arc is illogical for many reasons, the first problem is that the Krogan shouldn't really be dying according to the numbers of the Genophage. One viable birth per year per female should put them ahead of most species reproduction rates. (unless even the one birth per year is only true for a few fertile females) And the fact that curing the Genophage actually pulls the carpet from under Wrex because suddenly there's no real need to protect fertile females, and everyone can go back to squirting a thousand babies every time, thus devaluing individual Krogan life and ultimately leading to the same vicious headbutting over resources and living space. The Krogan only have a motivation to change their culture when every life is precious, Wrex should be cunning enough to understand that. And even that is very uncertain if the whole change is dependent on two individuals, because as strong as Wrex and Eve may be, they can still die. As for the level of potential danger from the Krogan due to their lack of heavy industry and ships, while that's true in the short run, after curing the Genophage you will face a Krogan population explosion. It won't take more than a few generations for them to start moving to other planets due to sheer necessity, and slowly but surely they will develop technology as well. The thing is, the Krogan don't need technology on the level of the Salarians or the Asari to be a threat, they just need a lot of it, and to make it sturdy enough to take some punishment. Think the Orks from WH40K, the Krogan may not be quite as fast with their reproduction, but they still have the potential to drown the galaxy with sheer numbers. The krogan dying is acknowledged to be a psychological/cultural problem by Wrex as far back as ME1. In addition to being violent and disgruntled by default krogan are pretty fatalistic. They've convinced themselves they have no future so they fight and die randomly so much I'd be tempted to list "self destructive tendency/ borderline suicidal" as the Hat of the genophaged krogan. I think there's even a quote along the lines of "ask a krogan what they'd rather have, a cure to the genophage or a fight and they'll choose the fight every time." As for krogan migration, again you have to ask (or rather answer) how will these krogan move from planet to planet. They have no resources to build ships or even trade for ships. Again, it's EDI's logistical discussion multiplied by a thousand. To be anywhere near a threat again, you'd need a long laundry list of implausible things to happen, likely in order: 1. Centralize power (unite the clans). Wrex/Wreave has done this but as we've discussed the basis for his powerbase goes up in smoke with the genophage. Alternatively have one clan strong enough to make galactic plays. There are none. 2. Somehow acquire ships, weapons, armor and more base supplies like food and medicine on a massive scale to support not only existing numbers but the expected population boom. 3. Protect the Shroud and somehow ensure it keeps pumping out the cure. Bring in the rest of the krogan from everywhere in the galaxy to also get cured. 3. Train your massive amount of offspring for war. Remeber krogan aren't rachni- they're not born fully prepared to fight. This will take some years. 4. Do all of the above without attracting attention. Yeah, subtle krogan. That'll be the day. And probably loads more of intermediate steps I'm forgetting. We also can't assume the krogan move in a vacuum while the other races are static and do nothing. I mean I know the Council are idiots but you can't honestly expect them to fall for "just one more planet" again. The krogan will be watched, very carefully. Also, if we're talking population explosion, we're talking population explosion, long before we get to generations later of "one more planet". There are indications that with the genophage lifted a lot of the krogan will "get busy". That is, bone rather recklessly, forgetting they have no infrasturcture and resoures on their planet to handle all those births. Without strict population control from day one (which we have seen zero indication the krogan have even considered), the krogan will start going in the red rather fast. At that point they'll need help from the other species or starve. And at that point, the other species would have to be complete idiots to render help, not just from a "did we learn nothing" perspective but also from the "hey we just came out of a war and have our own rebuilding/hardships to deal with". The krogan won't be able to rely on handouts long enough to become a threat without the tiniest shred of forethought towards long term growth management goals, which again, we've seen zero evidence for. Finally, regardless of which ending you choose, there's bigger fish in teh galaxy. Leviathans, combined geth/quarians, Reapers. There's just no contest. The Krogan Rebellions happend not because the krogan were unbeatable but because they were armed and specifically made to be the biggest baddest thing in the galaxy. These days though, after their fall from grace? They're nowhere near that top dog spot, and they never will again, not with their (lack of) strategy.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 21, 2016 16:43:18 GMT
Another reason why I hate a game that forces me to collect materiel for crafting. The game doesn't force you to collect material for crafting. Its an option. I did a playthrough without crafting anything. Just used what was taken from the dead bodies.
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