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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 28, 2016 15:15:30 GMT
If those times you can't go against the times you can yes it is. For example Shepard's interactions with James and Jacob are a huge problem with how I set up her as a character and that's only about .01% of the interactions in the trilogy. As for those RPGs you refer to, some at least, including a couple Bioware titles, let you choose your character's reaction to those times whereas this does not. Am I right in guessing that you are in favor of a silent protagonist? More room for your head-canon? Certainly sounds like it given that's the only way they'd achieve what they'er asking for. Personally I prefer the way they do it now and I suspect that Bioware will continue to do it this way from now on. I can see why they want what they want but I'd prefer my character to have a personality of sorts and just let me choose whether to be aggressive or kind or whatever depending on the situation. Besides I think the days of us having a silent protagonist in these games are now gone.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 28, 2016 15:20:49 GMT
If those times you can't go against the times you can yes it is. For example Shepard's interactions with James and Jacob are a huge problem with how I set up her as a character and that's only about .01% of the interactions in the trilogy. As for those RPGs you refer to, some at least, including a couple Bioware titles, let you choose your character's reaction to those times whereas this does not. Am I right in guessing that you are in favor of a silent protagonist? More room for your head-canon? Probably be preferable to Shepard sounding like she wants to tear Jacob's suit off and have him right there in the armory when you have zero interest in him..
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Post by javeart on Dec 28, 2016 15:33:48 GMT
I definitely see the resemblance between what they're showing us and telling us and DAI: the big maps, the bases we're going to establish in each of them, the monsters/dragons, the resource gathering and the crafting, the apparent need of buiding up your central base (nexus points included), the new dialogue wheel... Those are things that to me have more in common with DAI than with previous ME games... Even the nomad looks more like DAI horses that like the mako, not having guns... I don't think the idea is crazy at all
That said, I don't think all of those of these similarities are bad. The changes in the dialogue options, for instance, for me are welcome (if they would add the aproval/disapproval system it would be perfect)and so is the crafting itself (the resource gathering is another issue), and I had lot of fun with the dragon fights, so I think I'm going to enjoy something similar. I'm not a fan though of big maps, but as long as the nexus points are not used to level-gate the main missions and I'm not forced to deal with all the exploration and side-quest in every single pt, I'm ok with it even if I'd have still prefered that resources were spent elsewhere. I'm not a fan of the nomad either, but we'll see, maybe it's fun driving it and, in fact, since it seems I won't be able to ignore it, I'm happy that at least I won't have to fight with it.
And then, there's still the case of things that I didn't like in DAI but that I could like in MEA if they're done better, which are the resource gathering and the side-quest, and here, maybe the hype is making be naive, but I'm optimistic for the moment, I think they actually might be better, for what I have heard and seen.
So, personally, some things I like, some I don't, but I sure can see where "Inquisition in space" remarks come from
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Dec 28, 2016 15:45:02 GMT
I definitely see the resemblance between what they're showing us and telling us and DAI: the big maps, the bases we're going to establish in each of them, the monsters/dragons, the resource gathering and the crafting, the apparent need of buiding up your central base (nexus points included), the new dialogue wheel... Those are things that to me have more in common with DAI than with previous ME games... Even the nomad looks more like DAI horses that like the mako, not having guns... I don't think the idea is crazy at all Wait... Mass Effect has always had non-linear maps. Remember the planets? Base establishment is the only concept that makes sense in a game where you're exploring new planets. If it's similar to DAI, it's purely circumstantial. You're not really establishing a camp either. You're just calling down a pod or something. Do you want to head back to the ship every time you want to change something? This is an open world game, so clearly you want some form of fast travel. Monsters are part of most games (let alone stories) since the dawn of time. Resource gathering and crafting have been in games since the dawn of time. Mass Effect 3 was all a bout building up a central "base" (the Crucible). Mass Effect 2 had you researching upgrades for your ship, which influence the story. Dialogue wheels have been part of BioWare games since forever, although this is the only relevant point regarding similarity to DAI. Clearly they'd incorporate innovations to each game. Would you prefer they return to older dialogue wheels? If anything it's a Bioware game in space. If it shares components with DAI, a BioWare game in Fantasy, then the reason they may be similar is that they are both BioWare games... Similarities in specific gameplay designs in DAI have more to do with the open world genre itself really.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 28, 2016 16:06:35 GMT
Surely the kit swapping is only going to be as far as you have leveled up into those builds? I don't see the game handing you everything from the get go. Quote: "you basically level up your character, you assign your points, and you can rearrange those points as you need to."So if you are offended that your Adept might go all Vanguard, don't spec any points into Vanguard (problem solved) The thing is, he also said that combat was designed around on-the-fly respeccing. This doesn't seem to be an option, like "this build isn't working for me, I need to change some stuff" or "D'oh! I didn't mean to click that talent!" You are EXPECTED to periodically rearrange your talents to handle certain fights!
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Post by Iakus on Dec 28, 2016 16:10:42 GMT
Dialogue wheels have been part of BioWare games since forever, although this is the only relevant point regarding similarity to DAI. Clearly they'd incorporate innovations to each game. Would you prefer they return to older dialogue wheels? Yeah, they've been part of Bioware since all the way back to ...Mass Effect! By "older dialogue wheels" do you mean the ones in Jade Empire? KOTOR? Baldur's Gate? I mean, hey, spoken dialogue adds something to games, don't get me wrong. But you have to give up a lot too. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Dec 28, 2016 16:14:24 GMT
Dialogue wheels have been part of BioWare games since forever, although this is the only relevant point regarding similarity to DAI. Clearly they'd incorporate innovations to each game. Would you prefer they return to older dialogue wheels? Yeah, they've been part of Bioware since all the way back to ...Mass Effect! By "older dialogue wheels" do you mean the ones in Jade Empire? KOTOR? Baldur's Gate? I mean, hey, spoken dialogue adds something to games, don't get me wrong. But you have to give up a lot too. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it. Forever for me is literally Mass Effect 1 lol.. it's the first BioWare game I played. Perspective I suppose, although the point remains. It was an ME innovation, not a DA one. I believe that voiced protagonists are worth it for the immersion alone, but then again I have a high tolerance for inflectional discrepancies so this is a subjective viewpoint. Occasionally I do get irritated by paraphrasing issues, but I am far more likely to be pleased by the outcome.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 28, 2016 16:20:27 GMT
Yeah, they've been part of Bioware since all the way back to ...Mass Effect! By "older dialogue wheels" do you mean the ones in Jade Empire? KOTOR? Baldur's Gate? I mean, hey, spoken dialogue adds something to games, don't get me wrong. But you have to give up a lot too. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it. Forever for me is literally Mass Effect 1 lol.. it's the first BioWare game I played. Perspective I suppose, although the point remains. It was an ME innovation, not a DA one. I believe that voiced protagonists are worth it for the immersion alone, but then again I have a high tolerance for inflectional discrepancies so this is a subjective viewpoint. Occasionally I do get irritated by paraphrasing issues, but I am far more likely to be pleased by the outcome. Fair enough. I come from a far older tradition, as I go back to the first Baldur's Gate game in 1998. I have seen Bioware go through many changes, and not always for the better. Especially in recent years.
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Post by javeart on Dec 28, 2016 16:32:19 GMT
Wait... Mass Effect has always had non-linear maps. Remember the planets? Base establishment is the only concept that makes sense in a game where you're exploring new planets. If it's similar to DAI, it's purely circumstantial. You're not really establishing a camp either. You're just calling down a pod or something. Do you want to head back to the ship every time you want to change something? This is an open world game, so clearly you want some form of fast travel. Monsters are part of most games (let alone stories) since the dawn of time. Resource gathering and crafting have been in games since the dawn of time. Mass Effect 3 was all a bout building up a central "base" (the Crucible). Mass Effect 2 had you researching upgrades for your ship, which influence the story. Dialogue wheels have been part of BioWare games since forever, although this is the only relevant point regarding similarity to DAI. Clearly they'd incorporate innovations to each game. Would you prefer they return to older dialogue wheels? If anything it's a Bioware game in space. If it shares components with DAI, a BioWare game in Fantasy, then the reason they may be similar is that they are both BioWare games... Similarities in specific gameplay designs in DAI have more to do with the open world genre itself really. DAI was surely not reinventing the wheel, all or most of these features of course come from other games... I'm compairing specifically MEA with DAI and MET. ME1 have big maps, yes, but they were not so vast or full of side-quests and stuff that you needed to establish bases (and I'm not sayin it doesn't makes sense, I'm saying we never had those in other ME games), and neither there was in every one of them a super monster that you probably wont be able to take on when you arrive there for the first time, as I seem to remember they said it will happen in MEA. And I don't remember either having to collect resources as we travel (on foot) to later make helmets, guns or whatever, we were picking uprades, which to me is kind of different. In fact, a lot of them you couldn't just pick them up, you had to buy them. I wouldn't call any of this crafting. The dialogue wheel was always there of course, but as you say, it seems it's more similar to the one in DAI than to the one in MET, even the symbols look the same. The Crucible might be similar, ok, I could agree on that (though I didn't find it half as annoying as the power requirements in DAI, but ok, that's my thing) And, again, I'm not saying DAI didn't take much of other games, so if you want to say that MEA looks like DAI only because they're more open-world games, that's fine with me, but they're still look alike a lot (as far as we can tell without actually having played the game) and somewhat diffferent from last BW games
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 28, 2016 18:41:33 GMT
If those times you can't go against the times you can yes it is. For example Shepard's interactions with James and Jacob are a huge problem with how I set up her as a character and that's only about .01% of the interactions in the trilogy. As for those RPGs you refer to, some at least, including a couple Bioware titles, let you choose your character's reaction to those times whereas this does not. Am I right in guessing that you are in favor of a silent protagonist? More room for your head-canon? No. While there are games that definitely benefit from a silent protagonist, Mass Effect is too cinematic for that to really work. If anything I am in favor of what they did in DAI where you had two options for voice with your character as well as letting you choose the emotion you express then that being assumed.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Dec 28, 2016 18:49:23 GMT
Am I right in guessing that you are in favor of a silent protagonist? More room for your head-canon? No. While there are games that definitely benefit from a silent protagonist, Mass Effect is too cinematic for that to really work. If anything I am in favor of what they did in DAI where you had two options for voice with your character as well as letting you choose the emotion you express then that being assumed. I see! I didn't mean anything negative about it. I know on the old BSN forums there was a hefty thread about the pros and cons of a silent protagonist. I prefer how they did Shep in the OT, but I don't think there is anything wrong with a silent protagonist. I think we will have the option to choose the "emotion" in dialogue, judging by the DAI-inspired symbols on the dialogue wheel in the VGA gameplay demo.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 28, 2016 18:53:44 GMT
Where is the idea of a power system coming from the mea i have not seen anything like that?
As far as silent versus non silent are concerned I've always preferred talking. Much easier to role play.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 28, 2016 19:00:55 GMT
...Fair enough. I come from a far older tradition, as I go back to the first Baldur's Gate game in 1998. I have seen Bioware go through many changes, and not always for the better. Especially in recent years. I used to read 'Choose Your Own Adventures'... And they could have '40 possible endings!' It would seem that evolution of format is inevitable...
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 28, 2016 19:05:06 GMT
Surely the kit swapping is only going to be as far as you have leveled up into those builds? I don't see the game handing you everything from the get go. Quote: "you basically level up your character, you assign your points, and you can rearrange those points as you need to."So if you are offended that your Adept might go all Vanguard, don't spec any points into Vanguard (problem solved) The thing is, he also said that combat was designed around on-the-fly respeccing. This doesn't seem to be an option, like "this build isn't working for me, I need to change some stuff" or "D'oh! I didn't mean to click that talent!" You are EXPECTED to periodically rearrange your talents to handle certain fights! Honestly, unless the combat is either seriously difficult or literally impossible to complete without a specific ability, I don't think the on the fly respeccing will be a big deal. I feel that it'll be more a matter of the player being able to freely swap through setups they'll enjoy the most. I suspect that I will commit to one setup my first go and never change it under any circumstances. I'll bet that I can complete the game using *only* a gun without ever using powers. It was a fun challenge in ME3MP
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 28, 2016 19:12:35 GMT
No. While there are games that definitely benefit from a silent protagonist, Mass Effect is too cinematic for that to really work. If anything I am in favor of what they did in DAI where you had two options for voice with your character as well as letting you choose the emotion you express then that being assumed. I see! I didn't mean anything negative about it. I know on the old BSN forums there was a hefty thread about the pros and cons of a silent protagonist. I prefer how they did Shep in the OT, but I don't think there is anything wrong with a silent protagonist. I think we will have the option to choose the "emotion" in dialogue, judging by the DAI-inspired symbols on the dialogue wheel in the VGA gameplay demo. It's okay. I didn't see anything negative from your post. I don't think we will, since Bioware told us what the options are. Instead of like DAI where you chose not only what to say but the emotion and tone to say it, in MEA the four options are instead Head, Heart, Professional, and Casual. There is no real choice of emotion or tone there except maybe Heart.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 28, 2016 19:21:12 GMT
...Fair enough. I come from a far older tradition, as I go back to the first Baldur's Gate game in 1998. I have seen Bioware go through many changes, and not always for the better. Especially in recent years. I used to read 'Choose Your Own Adventures'... And they could have '40 possible endings!' It would seem that evolution of format is inevitable... Choose Your Own Adventure, Lone Wolf, Zork, Endless Quest, Time Machine. I did them all
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 28, 2016 20:35:44 GMT
That's it, 'old people's reminiscence' over, please do carry on...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 23:15:17 GMT
If those times you can't go against the times you can yes it is. For example Shepard's interactions with James and Jacob are a huge problem with how I set up her as a character and that's only about .01% of the interactions in the trilogy. As for those RPGs you refer to, some at least, including a couple Bioware titles, let you choose your character's reaction to those times whereas this does not. Am I right in guessing that you are in favor of a silent protagonist? More room for your head-canon? Hanako is referring to FemShep auto flirting with both Jacob and Vega without the player's input.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 28, 2016 23:16:37 GMT
Am I right in guessing that you are in favor of a silent protagonist? More room for your head-canon? Hanako is referring to FemShep auto flirting with both Jacob and Vega without the player's input. AKA the KEEP IT IN YOUR PANTS. Effect.
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 29, 2016 12:38:10 GMT
Am I right in guessing that you are in favor of a silent protagonist? More room for your head-canon? Hanako is referring to FemShep auto flirting with both Jacob and Vega without the player's input. If that sort of thing could happen with the old ME then I don't see why it would be any more or less likely to happen with the new ME. Shepard still had a personality, a background and a script that drove the story in the direction they needed it to go. In this case there are now two personalities and two scripts to enjoy instead of one but you still get just as much player agency in determining Ryder's choices and tone as you ever did for Shepard. More so, now, as the tone to take is much more explicit on the MEA dialogue tree and there are now more than two options!
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Post by Sartoz on Dec 29, 2016 15:02:13 GMT
Merry★* 。 • ˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ • •。★Christmas★ 。* 。 ° 。 ° ˛˚˛ * _Π_____*。*˚ ˚ ˛ •˛•˚ */______/~\。˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ •˛• ˚ | 田田 |門| ˚And a happy new year!
Two distinct personalities with bigger character dialogues, than in any previous ME games, allows the gamer to discover new aspects of the protagonist in multiple playtroughs.
Playing the Ryder as a hard azz or a lover should trigger different dialogues from our squad and aliens. However, I'm also tempering this "enthusiasm" with rock salts. I mean, let's face it, a bigger character dialogue could simply mean take the largest in ME, add two extra lines and marketing can say it's the biggest yet.
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Post by Sartoz on Dec 29, 2016 15:40:47 GMT
Surely the kit swapping is only going to be as far as you have leveled up into those builds? I don't see the game handing you everything from the get go. Quote: "you basically level up your character, you assign your points, and you can rearrange those points as you need to."So if you are offended that your Adept might go all Vanguard, don't spec any points into Vanguard (problem solved) The thing is, he also said that combat was designed around on-the-fly respeccing. This doesn't seem to be an option, like "this build isn't working for me, I need to change some stuff" or "D'oh! I didn't mean to click that talent!" You are EXPECTED to periodically rearrange your talents to handle certain fights! Merry★* 。 • ˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ • •。★Christmas★ 。* 。 ° 。 ° ˛˚˛ * _Π_____*。*˚ ˚ ˛ •˛•˚ */______/~\。˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ •˛• ˚ | 田田 |門| ˚And a happy new year!
If you recall, the game design allows us to start out with access to all venues of progression, regardless of whether one wants to be a soldier, biotic or engineer. Now this means I can "experiment" with different styles of play, without creating a new character (this is a good thing, imo). Also, points can be re-arranged on different playthroughs. I really see this as optional play mechanic rather than being a forced one. For example: It allows the player to restart the mission (upon death) with the same powers+squad and hope for the best or with new powers (ie: profile) + squad. Also, I remember Bio mentioning that you may encounter opponents that are much stronger than you are and that you need to come back when you are stronger. Clearly this statement says the use of dynamically switching profiles is not the solution to winning a fight.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 29, 2016 16:44:49 GMT
The thing is, he also said that combat was designed around on-the-fly respeccing. This doesn't seem to be an option, like "this build isn't working for me, I need to change some stuff" or "D'oh! I didn't mean to click that talent!" You are EXPECTED to periodically rearrange your talents to handle certain fights! Merry★* 。 • ˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ • •。★Christmas★ 。* 。 ° 。 ° ˛˚˛ * _Π_____*。*˚ ˚ ˛ •˛•˚ */______/~\。˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ •˛• ˚ | 田田 |門| ˚And a happy new year!
If you recall, the game design allows us to start out with access to all venues of progression, regardless of whether one wants to be a soldier, biotic or engineer. Now this means I can "experiment" with different styles of play, without creating a new character (this is a good thing, imo). Also, points can be re-arranged on different playthroughs. I really see this as optional play mechanic rather than being a forced one. For example: It allows the player to restart the mission (upon death) with the same powers+squad and hope for the best or with new powers (ie: profile) + squad. Also, I remember Bio mentioning that you may encounter opponents that are much stronger than you are and that you need to come back when you are stronger. Clearly this statement says the use of dynamically switching profiles is not the solution to winning a fight. THis is specifically what I was referring to... Q: Are there any restrictions around item usage or class or any aspect of each character? Mass Effect: Andromeda interview Mike Gamble: Nope, there's no restrictions based on class or anything. We have a really cool profile system that we've included which allows you to change what we call a profile, which is a subset of skills. We don't have a class system, so you basically level up your character, you assign your points, and you can rearrange those points as you need to. You can select different profiles as they unlock that focus you on specific different areas. So there's an Infiltrator profile and a Vanguard profile, but if you're not cool with that you can always switch, and you can actually do it at any point. So if you see a combat that is much more suited to an Infiltrator, you pop open the main menu, you select the Infiltrator profile that gives you set powers that you can use to take that combat using an Infiltrator approach, then if something is up close then you switch to a Vanguard profile and go from there. There's no real limitations in terms of powers and weapons. We found that to be quite limiting for players so we got rid of it.Will there be a cost associated with this respeccing? Mike Gamble: You can just adjust. We felt that putting a cost into it would eliminate players from wanting to do it as much. But of course, we've built the game around being able to do that. So you'll have different kinds of situations and combats where it would be very beneficial for you to change your profile, and you might have a greater reward if you change your profile. So by doing that, we just want the players to be able to do it, we don't want to punish them for it.You can, and will be encouraged, to switch abilities on the fly, even in the middle of a mission.
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Raga
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Raga on Dec 29, 2016 17:05:31 GMT
The spontaneous respeccing thing sounds weird to me. How can I magically be a biotic in one fight and then cease being a biotic in the next? I might move between techy specs (Infiltrator to Engineer say) because that seems plausible. Or between biotic specs (Vanguard to Sentinel) but being able to spontaneously turn biotics on and off altogether sounds extremely immersion breaking.
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Thrombin
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 29, 2016 17:37:23 GMT
The spontaneous respeccing thing sounds weird to me. How can I magically be a biotic in one fight and then cease being a biotic in the next? I might move between techy specs (Infiltrator to Engineer say) because that seems plausible. Or between biotic specs (Vanguard to Sentinel) but being able to spontaneously turn biotics on and off altogether sounds extremely immersion breaking. This has been discussed throughout the thread but it has always been the case that you can't use biotics properly without a biotic implant connecting to a bio-amp. Different types of biotic implant enable different biotic abilities (L5n implant enables the Vanguard to do Biotic Charge, L5x implants enables the Adept to use Singularity). You need a natural biotic ability and training to use these implants but without the implants no amount of ability or training will enable you to use these powers effectively, if at all. So since, in Lore, these powers are enabled by implanted tech then reconfiguring that tech on the fly to perform another function, such as causing an Omni-Tool to create an Engineer's Drone or Turret, would be entirely in keeping with the idea that you can no longer use these biotic powers when the implant is in that configuration.
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