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Post by Fredward on Jan 3, 2017 7:36:31 GMT
My version of hyped is "Staying abreast with the news" so... yes?
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 3, 2017 8:22:35 GMT
To be more precise, marketing that leads to sales is relevant. Gratifying fans is less so. Why show more if the company is not ready to get the pre-orders up, you can't pre-order on an Xbox yet, for example.
And as far as concerns: 'what was shown [needed to be] better' I'm unclear on what bar the game is being measured against here? I'm not saying I don't like to see reveals, I do. But not having seen more to date is not necessarily bad marketing, we're not the bulk of the target audience. Um, yes you can. Physical copies at least have been available for pre-order for a couple months now. That's true, though physical copy pre-orders are 'placeholders' that are as we know, (usually) easily canceled. Amazon posted its physical Xbox/PS4 pre-order in June 2014. www.ibtimes.co.in/mass-effect-4-amazon-price-pre-order-release-date-details-pc-version-be-delayed-603209
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 3, 2017 10:08:52 GMT
But that's aside from the marketing point. The question stands, what tangible benefit would an earlier gameplay demonstration achieve? Yes, a couple of years for a gameplay video, but so what? What would be gained that justifies the expenditure of developers time and marketing time and money getting earlier gameplay out there? And is it something that could be as well or better achieved waiting until there's only a few months to go? As I said, if the gameplay is good, it makes people talk about the game and build hype. That's the point of marketing. The fact that many games that sold very well showed gameplay early is a proof of that. So is it better to show gameplay closer to release? We can't say, we do not have enough evidence. All we can say is that both can work.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jan 3, 2017 10:14:06 GMT
Lmao are some of you trying to justify the crap animation on Ryder's face in that disarming footage? It's just a poorly done animation or facial capture. I wouldn't be suprised if it's BioWare not getting facial capture right. Their motion capture was never stunning in terms of detail or acting-direction but really, what sucks in the footage is her eyes. If you smile without your eyes you'll look like this: The problem with this is that it makes a character look lifeless. Try covering up the mouth-region on the pictures with your hand and see for yourself how the eyes look neutral.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 3, 2017 10:16:32 GMT
So we should wait for the MEA sales numbers to talk about the marketing? After all, everything else is irrelevant. But I'd say the next Mass Effect would have huge amounts of hype regardless of the marketing campaign. After all, it's named Mass Effect. It also certainly has a negativity around it which might have been avoided if more of the game was shown. Or better yet, if what was shown was better. In the end, we will only know the sucess or failure of Andromeda from EA point of view years from now. Of course, the quality of the game itself will be known if a few months. To be more precise, marketing that leads to sales is relevant. Gratifying fans is less so. Why show more if the company is not ready to get the pre-orders up, you can't pre-order on an Xbox yet, for example. And as far as concerns: 'what was shown [needed to be] better' I'm unclear on what bar the game is being measured against here? I'm not saying I don't like to see reveals, I do. But not having seen more to date is not necessarily bad marketing, we're not the bulk of the target audience. So again we can't say anything about the success of Andromeda's marketing as we do not know if it's leading to sales. Better yet, if it's leading to more or less sales than EA expected. And Andromeda is measure up against other AAA titles and people's own expectations. The gameplay looked bad because it looked bad, a lot of sound effects seemed to be missing, enemies would not react when shot upon or even charged and would just fall to the ground when dead, even the environment didn't look anything special in the battle scene. Just a bunch of mountains. Animations looked clunky and the game looked unglier than I expected.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 3, 2017 10:20:40 GMT
To be more precise, marketing that leads to sales is relevant. Gratifying fans is less so. [snip] So again we can't say anything about the success of Andromeda's marketing as we do not know if it's leading to sales. Better yet, if it's leading to more or less sales than EA expected. And Andromeda is measure up against other AAA titles and people's own expectations. The gameplay looked bad because it looked bad, a lot of sound effects seemed to be missing, enemies would not react when shot upon or even charged and would just fall to the ground when dead, even the environment didn't look anything special in the battle scene. Just a bunch of mountains. Animations looked clunky and the game looked unglier than I expected. Looked pretty good to me, but your mileage may vary, and that's fine.
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Post by dalinne on Jan 3, 2017 10:34:37 GMT
Lmao are some of you trying to justify the crap animation on Ryder's face in that disarming footage? It's just a poorly done animation or facial capture. I wouldn't be suprised if it's BioWare not getting facial capture right. Their motion capture was never stunning in terms of detail or acting-direction but really, what sucks in the footage is her eyes. If you smile without your eyes you'll look like this: The problem with this is that it makes a character look lifeless. Try covering up the mouth-region on the pictures with your hand and see for yourself how the eyes look neutral. As Hot Not Meh stated: the fact the animation is not polished by the moment they realised the gameplay, it shows they are, in fact, showing us what they have (not embellishing what they don't have yet, in order to give a false expectation, ala NMS). He provides examples of other games doing the same with a good results. He points out nobody put attention there is almost no sound effects
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
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Post by helios969 on Jan 3, 2017 11:45:54 GMT
To be more precise, marketing that leads to sales is relevant. Gratifying fans is less so. Why show more if the company is not ready to get the pre-orders up, you can't pre-order on an Xbox yet, for example. And as far as concerns: 'what was shown [needed to be] better' I'm unclear on what bar the game is being measured against here? I'm not saying I don't like to see reveals, I do. But not having seen more to date is not necessarily bad marketing, we're not the bulk of the target audience. So again we can't say anything about the success of Andromeda's marketing as we do not know if it's leading to sales. Better yet, if it's leading to more or less sales than EA expected. And Andromeda is measure up against other AAA titles and people's own expectations. The gameplay looked bad because it looked bad, a lot of sound effects seemed to be missing, enemies would not react when shot upon or even charged and would just fall to the ground when dead, even the environment didn't look anything special in the battle scene. Just a bunch of mountains. Animations looked clunky and the game looked unglier than I expected. Yeah, all those things have me thinking in the back of my mind there's no way Bio is fixing all the issues by March 31st. The combat physics and facial animation/lipsyncing looked particularly bad...which essentially is the entire game needing to be "tweaked." I'd personally feel better about Bio's ability to deliver if they'd just delay the game 3-6 months. Holiday 2017 might be a better release in terms of sales anyways. Of course, the EA overlords might not permit it.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 3, 2017 13:12:24 GMT
But that's aside from the marketing point. The question stands, what tangible benefit would an earlier gameplay demonstration achieve? Yes, a couple of years for a gameplay video, but so what? What would be gained that justifies the expenditure of developers time and marketing time and money getting earlier gameplay out there? And is it something that could be as well or better achieved waiting until there's only a few months to go? As I said, if the gameplay is good, it makes people talk about the game and build hype. That's the point of marketing. The fact that many games that sold very well showed gameplay early is a proof of that. So is it better to show gameplay closer to release? We can't say, we do not have enough evidence. All we can say is that both can work. All that "talk and hype" goes away at launch if "BioWare lied" happens again because something changed in the development cycle. Things change during development and players are unwilling to accept that. Look at what happened with Dragon Age: Inquisition and the demo they showed where content was cut after they demonstrated it. Heck people are trying to sue Warner because the trailers of Suicide Squad contained footage that wasn't in the final film. You might want that footage, but it has been proven by other people that they cling too tightly on what is released and they have ruined it for everyone.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 3, 2017 15:02:50 GMT
As I said, if the gameplay is good, it makes people talk about the game and build hype. That's the point of marketing. The fact that many games that sold very well showed gameplay early is a proof of that. So is it better to show gameplay closer to release? We can't say, we do not have enough evidence. All we can say is that both can work. All that "talk and hype" goes away at launch if "BioWare lied" happens again because something changed in the development cycle. Things change during development and players are unwilling to accept that. Look at what happened with Dragon Age: Inquisition and the demo they showed where content was cut after they demonstrated it. Heck people are trying to sue Warner because the trailers of Suicide Squad contained footage that wasn't in the final film. You might want that footage, but it has been proven by other people that they cling too tightly on what is released and they have ruined it for everyone. And Suicide Squad was a success in the box office, and "Dragon Age: Inquisition is the most successful launch in BioWare history based on units sold". So even if you have people bitching about it it's a sound strategy. The Last of Us is another example, and so many others. My issue is not seeing little of the game, it is the feeling that they are positevely afraid to show it because the game is not the way it should be. If the VGA trailer delivered, I would believe I was wrong, but it only reinforced this idea.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jan 3, 2017 16:38:54 GMT
So we should wait for the MEA sales numbers to talk about the marketing? After all, everything else is irrelevant. But I'd say the next Mass Effect would have huge amounts of hype regardless of the marketing campaign. After all, it's named Mass Effect. It also certainly has a negativity around it which might have been avoided if more of the game was shown. Or better yet, if what was shown was better. In the end, we will only know the sucess or failure of Andromeda from EA point of view years from now. Of course, the quality of the game itself will be known if a few months. To be more precise, marketing that leads to sales is relevant. Gratifying fans is less so. Why show more if the company is not ready to get the pre-orders up, you can't pre-order on an Xbox yet, for example. And as far as concerns: 'what was shown [needed to be] better' I'm unclear on what bar the game is being measured against here? I'm not saying I don't like to see reveals, I do. But not having seen more to date is not necessarily bad marketing, we're not the bulk of the target audience. Anyone ever see the movie The Paper? I'm reminded of this: Michael Keaton and Glenn Close were arguing about whether or not to run a story about two kids being arrested for murder. Keaton's character thinks there's more to the story and the teens might be innocent. Close's character, afraid of being scooped by bigger papers, wanted to run a story with what they know now and print a retraction later if new evidence comes up. The increased circulation would be worth the hit. Keaton wanted to make sure the story they printed was right. Close said: "We only have to be right for one day" There's probably a lesson in there somewhere..
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 3, 2017 17:55:10 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Hm... A Jan 4 game play trailer with "corrected" lip syncing and facial expressions will have a positive effect with this BSN's fans.
On the other hand, a Q2 2017 launch is still in the deck.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 3, 2017 18:40:35 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Hm... A Jan 4 game play trailer with "corrected" lip syncing and facial expressions will have a positive effect with this BSN's fans.
On the other hand, a Q2 2017 launch is still in the deck.
We're 77 days from Spring (March 21st). Coincidentally, in 2014 BioWare were 77 days from the launch of Dragon Age Inquisition when they pushed the release back by 6 weeks. In short, the start of Spring is fast approaching and I'm thinking that a 'go-or-no-go' launch date announcement has to be soon or March (and possibly even April) will have slipped.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,986 Likes: 21,018
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 3, 2017 19:48:53 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Hm... A Jan 4 game play trailer with "corrected" lip syncing and facial expressions will have a positive effect with this BSN's fans.
On the other hand, a Q2 2017 launch is still in the deck.
We're 77 days from Spring (March 21st). Coincidentally, in 2014 BioWare were 77 days from the launch of Dragon Age Inquisition when they pushed the release back by 6 weeks. In short, the start of Spring is fast approaching and I'm thinking that a 'go-or-no-go' launch date announcement has to be soon or March (and possibly even April) will have slipped. Agreed it's make or break time now really isn't it? Given that they'er starting t oreveal things relatively quickly in the past couple of months I'm leaning towards make rather than break.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 21:03:46 GMT
Well, I guess, the silver lining of being as far behind as I am on the BioWARE titles compared to the rest of the pack is that I have tons of quality gaming hours that will take me till whenever Bio releases the Andromeda, and likely afterwards as well. To be honest, I have not played a game on Day One for years now, and dunno if I can even manage w/o walkthroughs and guides and Wiki. That would be quite an experience. Though by the time I am done with the tutorial portion, people would be complaining they have played it to death already, and are bored with it, and when is the release date on the DLC/sequel...
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Raga on Jan 3, 2017 21:25:35 GMT
I am now in the process of replaying the original trilogy and I preordered this one. Also, I am wasting more and more of my time on these forums partaking in copious amounts of baseless but sanctimonious guessing.
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Post by Saboru on Jan 3, 2017 21:29:18 GMT
I am now in the process of replaying the original trilogy and I preordered this one. Also, I am wasting more and more of my time on these forums partaking in copious amounts of baseless but sanctimonious guessing. Me too! It's fun already, isn't it?
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Avatar change!
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Post by DalishRanger on Jan 4, 2017 0:27:55 GMT
I'm trying to get (back) to where you are. After that trailer, I finally started to get excited, after all these years. I mean, I love Bioware games. But the roller-coaster of emotions since ME3 apparently just won't stop, so naturally, I'm back down below excited after hearing about the twins' somewhat set personalities and being limited to 3 abilities at a time in combat. The latter isn't a huge issue for me - just like DA:I's 8-slot limit, I would be constantly frustrated with it to an extent but still have fun while playing the game. Which is entirely understandable! While it doesn't bother me personally (like I said, easy to please - I'm kind of adaptable in this regard. Like, I'd prefer more open-ended RPing but at the same time I see things like this as a chance to try something different and see how creative I can get with it), I understand why others are very wary about it. I will say I was one of the people not happy about 8 slot limit in DAI, but after a few replays I didn't think about it much. Passion's definitely something the BioWare fandom is known for. I'm more of a lurker most of the time except in the months before a big release, but I replay BioWare games obsessively (I lost track of my ME1 replays after 13-14 full runs), Mass Effect is a banned quiz topic at home because no one can compete with me fairly, I draw fan art, wear an N7 hoodie in cold weather, etc. That's generally how I express my passion, others do it through being hyper critical and analyzing every detail. However we express it, we are a passionate lot in general, even for gamers who tend to run on the passionate side of things in general. Again, fair! I don't see it as a regression personally, but rather a different way of trying things but I definitely understand how it can be seen as a step back/more limiting. We'll have to wait and see, to be sure. Also, can't speak for anyone else but the anxiety/hyper analysis/pessimissm is part and parcel of a BioWare game hype release, so I expect it and it can actually be a lot of fun reading and debating along. Great, now I feel old. Five years isn't as much for me, I've been a BioWare fan a bit over half my life now and I was a few years out of college five years ago. ... I probably made some other people on here feel even older, aha.
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General Aetius
N3
Good comedy is all about.......timing!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by General Aetius on Jan 4, 2017 1:37:57 GMT
I am now in the process of replaying the original trilogy and I preordered this one. Also, I am wasting more and more of my time on these forums partaking in copious amounts of baseless but sanctimonious guessing. Is that smart? MEA is still several months away and you'll finish the trilogy within weeks.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Raga on Jan 4, 2017 3:13:10 GMT
I am now in the process of replaying the original trilogy and I preordered this one. Also, I am wasting more and more of my time on these forums partaking in copious amounts of baseless but sanctimonious guessing. Is that smart? MEA is still several months away and you'll finish the trilogy within weeks. It's okay. I have other stuff to play. Also, I work full time so it takes me a long time to beat games actually. I'm doing femshep now and I may do a dudeshep run if I'm not burned out and still have time.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 4, 2017 12:47:05 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Hm... A Jan 4 game play trailer with "corrected" lip syncing and facial expressions will have a positive effect with this BSN's fans.
On the other hand, a Q2 2017 launch is still in the deck.
We're 77 days from Spring (March 21st). Coincidentally, in 2014 BioWare were 77 days from the launch of Dragon Age Inquisition when they pushed the release back by 6 weeks. In short, the start of Spring is fast approaching and I'm thinking that a 'go-or-no-go' launch date announcement has to be soon or March (and possibly even April) will have slipped. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Don't forget, the game usually goes Gold about 4+ weeks prior to launch. So, they have at most 47 days to tweaks and debug.
It takes about 4 weeks for the physical media to hit the various brick and mortar stores "world wide", ready for sale at game launch time. In the meantime, there is nothing holding the studio back from continuing their debugging. The digital copy will have the 0-Day patch already installed while us physical media types will have to download it.
I'd like to be a fly on that wall when the go, no-go decision is made.
EDIT: ...'Cause EA will have the final word , imo.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,986 Likes: 21,018
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 4, 2017 13:49:11 GMT
Is that smart? MEA is still several months away and you'll finish the trilogy within weeks. It's okay. I have other stuff to play. Also, I work full time so it takes me a long time to beat games actually. I'm doing femshep now and I may do a dudeshep run if I'm not burned out and still have time. Yeah this is what I'm doing as well atm doing a few more runs of the trilogy. Started my latest run of ME3 last night with my engineer Emily Shepard was thinking of doing a male Soldier next.
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Muddy Boots
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Post by Muddy Boots on Jan 4, 2017 15:10:03 GMT
It's okay. I have other stuff to play. Also, I work full time so it takes me a long time to beat games actually. I'm doing femshep now and I may do a dudeshep run if I'm not burned out and still have time. Yeah this is what I'm doing as well atm doing a few more runs of the trilogy. Started my latest run of ME3 last night with my engineer Emily Shepard was thinking of doing a male Soldier next. Yep, me too. And maybe, maybe try MP. We'll see. If I hate it, I can leave. Replays are going to take me some time because I'm starting a new job next week and will need time to recover from that as well. Not to mention, well, life in general.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,986 Likes: 21,018
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Go Team!
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sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 4, 2017 15:56:41 GMT
Yeah this is what I'm doing as well atm doing a few more runs of the trilogy. Started my latest run of ME3 last night with my engineer Emily Shepard was thinking of doing a male Soldier next. Yep, me too. And maybe, maybe try MP. We'll see. If I hate it, I can leave. Replays are going to take me some time because I'm starting a new job next week and will need time to recover from that as well. Not to mention, well, life in general. yeah I don't touch MP but I love playing single player. Creating new Shepards and going through these games.
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Muddy Boots
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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boots
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by Muddy Boots on Jan 4, 2017 22:15:55 GMT
Yep, me too. And maybe, maybe try MP. We'll see. If I hate it, I can leave. Replays are going to take me some time because I'm starting a new job next week and will need time to recover from that as well. Not to mention, well, life in general. yeah I don't touch MP but I love playing single player. Creating new Shepards and going through these games. Yeah, I may end up sticking with single player unless something drastic happens. I didn't realize I had an edition (got it for free) that included all the MP DLC so I popped in, made a character (human) just to see what I could see. It somehow sorted me into a group with very high level players before I could even see anything and they booted me immediately. I'm sure the gazillion level players really weren't happy to see a level 1. But we have a date and I just got more excited for Andromeda. I can pre-order now.
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