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Post by colfoley on Dec 8, 2016 22:01:27 GMT
So many have been wondering why an expedition would be formed, logically, to go explore another galaxy when there is just so much more galaxy to explore close at hand. Well, there are many reasons to want to leave the Milky way. From Krogan Genophages, wars and invasions, the threat of Reaper anhilation around the corner (you can't tell me that someone in the AIs founding fathers dosen't know of what happened with the Geth and believes Shepard's story), and huge governmental over reach. Whereas, and this goes into the 'why can't they explore the Milkyway' aspect, the galaxy actively discourages exploration of that galaxy. In so much as one of the Council Species fired on an unknown group of ships trying to open an inactive Mass Relay simply for the purposes of enforcing Galactic Law. (See the First Contact War). But to make the initiative viable they need a Sales pitch. Enter 'our sensors have detected a resource rich area of space in the Helios Cluster', but, as others have noted in the trailers the BioWare devs are mentioning that they are low on resources. This is odd. Unless they are intentionally lying to the members of the AI or at the best stretching the truth. They may have some idea of what's over there but considering the events at the start of the game (if you know you know, if you don't I am too lazy to post a spoiler warning right now, so keeping it vague), and considering the repeated utterances by the devs that the Andromeda Galaxy's Helios Cluster might not be as resource rich as we thought, it indicates they had a vastly incomplete picture of what the Andromeda Galaxy is actually like and it was a hale marry all along...just one they didn't share with most members of the expedition. So much so that: Sloane Kelly the security chief for the Andromeda Intiative on the Nexus apparently resigned to start her own multi species colony...or at the very least left the Nexus. The Security chief! I think this could be brilliant writing. If they can pull it off because it will give the narrative, and probably a great many characters within the narrative the chance to call the AI leaders out on their bull shit when we hit Andromeda. It is what we should have been able to do in ME 3s ending where we got to see the Catalyst and talk with...it. We should have been able to at least say, whatever else happened, 'your anti synthetic bias is illogical'. Whatever else happened I at least wanted to point out that The Catalysts position was silly. But no, we did not. And it almost is like BioWare recognizes shipping off to the Andromeda Galaxy is a mad idea, and so instead of getting there and everything is happy go lucky they get there and hey...guess what...everything is so screwed. Which also enables them to also provide more conflict into the story, which is always important for said story. Only problem with this is we might be put into the position of having to enforce the 'law' on people who actually have a good point. IE the Nexus is corrupt and this whole idea was stupid so we are going to go over...here... Nexus: what you can't do that we need your tax money and shit! Don't leave us! Andromeda Initiative descenters: No, we're leaving. Nexus: Ok here is our merc force to restore order. I hope this does not happen, or if it does we get choices within the narrative, but Inquisition did stray dangerously close to this territory.
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Post by warbaby2 on Dec 8, 2016 22:42:22 GMT
Actually, what I thought that line meant was, certain factions within Alliance command already knew that the Milky Way was most likely done for, so they sent the AI off to another galaxy - not as a planned and well planned colonization effort, but as a final "hail mary" in case Shepard was right. Of course, they wouldn't tell the colonists that, but if they somehow found out later, once they arrived in the Helios cluster, that revelation alone could very well fracture the AI leadership to a point people started taking off blazing their own trail.
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Post by azarhal on Dec 8, 2016 22:48:23 GMT
Going by something in the CSI thread ( VA contest script) and the gameplay trailer, I believe people left the Nexus because they wanted more freedom than what they were offered. That script also seems to suggest that the Nexus might have it easier in term of resources like food (which is kinda logical, what are the chance of finding food you can eat on another planet really?). Their might also have been an issue with the world selected for colonization: if they were already settled by natives, you need to find new planets.
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 8, 2016 22:53:59 GMT
They wanted to push the boundaries of exploration and discovery. Go to a place where no one has gone before. Be a Pioneer, a part of something awesome.
It's been a driving factor throughout human history. I really don't see why we need to come up with any other reason than that.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 8, 2016 22:59:43 GMT
Going by something in the CSI thread ( VA contest script) and the gameplay trailer, I believe people left the Nexus because they wanted more freedom than what they were offered. That script also seems to suggest that the Nexus might have it easier in term of resources like food (which is kinda logical, what are the chance of finding food you can eat on another planet really?). Their might also have been an issue with the world selected for colonization: if they were already settled by natives, you need to find new planets. Which makes perfect sense given the whole 'get the heck out of dodge' mentality of the FFs of the AI. They wanted to leave, they wanted more freedom and to do their own thng away from the Citadel and low and behold the Nexus starts throwing its weight around when you get there full of beurocractic rules and such. They wanted to push the boundaries of exploration and discovery. Go to a place where no one has gone before. Be a Pioneer, a part of something awesome. It's been a driving factor throughout human history. I really don't see why we need to come up with any other reason than that. Sure, I agree. Especially in the case of the FFs of the AI initiative but they probably felt they needed to sweeten the pot for any perspective colonists in their add campaign.
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 8, 2016 23:04:31 GMT
So much for a game with a hopeful, upbeat storyline, huh?
I can well imagine that a good many people might react poorly to the realisation that they're basically sitting in a low resource shithole with bingo fuel. Leaving the Nexus is still a rather bold move as anyone leaving likely loses all access to the resources and shelter the Nexus provides. Maybe they thought they could beat the Nexus to whatever scarce resources were out there and become established before the Nexus could claim the place. What could the Nexus crew do against that anyway? It's a civilian hub ship, not a death star, and not even the frigging Nomad got guns. I don't think enforcing the law is the intiative's forte.
If some "enforce the law" mission comes around, I do hope we get a choice... though if we sided with the rebellious ground team, why would there be a mechanic to upgrade the Nexus? So... I don't think we can turn against them.
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Post by warbaby2 on Dec 8, 2016 23:05:45 GMT
They wanted to push the boundaries of exploration and discovery. Go to a place where no one has gone before. Be a Pioneer, a part of something awesome. It's been a driving factor throughout human history. I really don't see why we need to come up with any other reason than that. Apparently BW has too, or that "they all lied to us" line - insinuating a great conspiracy and/or revelation - wouldn't be needed. There is only so much you can "lie about" when it comes to this kind of story: It's either the reason for sending the AI there, or the information of what they might find/have to do there that was wrong.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 8, 2016 23:06:14 GMT
So much for a game with a hopeful, upbeat storyline, huh? I can well imagine that a good many people might react poorly to the realisation that they're basically sitting in a low resource shithole with bingo fuel. Leaving the Nexus is still a rather bold move as anyone leaving likely loses all access to the resources and shelter the Nexus provides. Maybe they thought they could beat the Nexus to whatever scarce resources were out there and become established before the Nexus could claim the place. What could the Nexus crew do against that anyway? It's a civilian hub ship, not a death star, and not even the frigging Nomad got guns. I don't think enforcing the law is the intiative's forte. If some "enforce the law" mission comes around, I do hope we get a choice... though if we sided with the rebellious ground team, why would there be a mechanic to upgrade the Nexus? So... I don't think we can turn against them. Excellent point. Like I said I doubt it I just was fearing that was one direction they could move things in, a little bit less now of course.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 8, 2016 23:11:54 GMT
I have no problem with the notion that all is not as the 'shiny' marketing briefings imply...
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Post by colfoley on Dec 8, 2016 23:12:00 GMT
They wanted to push the boundaries of exploration and discovery. Go to a place where no one has gone before. Be a Pioneer, a part of something awesome. It's been a driving factor throughout human history. I really don't see why we need to come up with any other reason than that. Apparently BW has too, or that "they all lied to us" line - insinuating a great conspiracy and/or revelation - wouldn't be needed. There is only so much you can "lie about" when it comes to this kind of story: It's either the reason for sending the AI there, or the information of what they might find/have to do there that was wrong. Which is what I am proposing, that they get there...the colonists especially...and things aren't rosy as they appear. So the AI FFs had vague information on what was out there, sold people on the dream, they get there and find out the project 'lied' about it and it causes conflict.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 8, 2016 23:24:20 GMT
If some "enforce the law" mission comes around, I do hope we get a choice... though if we sided with the rebellious ground team, why would there be a mechanic to upgrade the Nexus? So... I don't think we can turn against them. Perhaps the Nexus leadership plans to transition to a more democratic system, which would allow everyone to have more representation and say in how the colonisation of Andromeda goes forward, since various people might have different ideas of what direction they want to take. If we decided to side with or work alongside the Separatists, we could convince them to join the table and become a legitimate voice, rather than remain outsiders who will be viewed with suspicion, fear and mistrust by the rest of the colonists. Would help to nip in the bud the creation of another Council Space / Terminus Systems, by allowing the disenfranchised individuals to have a voice and say over their own affairs, even if they don't necessarily trust the Nexus government and how they do things.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 8, 2016 23:29:47 GMT
If some "enforce the law" mission comes around, I do hope we get a choice... though if we sided with the rebellious ground team, why would there be a mechanic to upgrade the Nexus? So... I don't think we can turn against them. Perhaps the Nexus leadership plans to transition to a more democratic system, which would allow everyone to have more representation and say in how the colonisation of Andromeda goes forward, since various people might have different ideas of what direction they want to take. If we decided to side with or work alongside the Separatists, we could convince them to join the table and become a legitimate voice, rather than remain outsiders who will be viewed with suspicion, fear and mistrust by the rest of the colonists. Would help to nip in the bud the creation of another Council Space / Terminus Systems, by allowing the disenfranchised individuals to have a voice and say over their own affairs, even if they don't necessarily trust the Nexus government and how they do things. this by itself is something I would really love if they do.
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Post by Ahriman on Dec 8, 2016 23:47:35 GMT
Unless someone slips out they had no idea where they are going, they can simply say "Well, the data is 2,5 millions years old, stuff happens". If that VO contest is anything to go by, then they ran away because they love their Freedom that much. People who were responsible for psychological selection deserve "employee of a month" award in any case. Anyway "Nexus Uprising" seems to cover the chain of event we are talking, so I'd guess it's a big enough part of the story. If some "enforce the law" mission comes around, I do hope we get a choice... though if we sided with the rebellious ground team, why would there be a mechanic to upgrade the Nexus? So... I don't think we can turn against them. Yeah, I don't think it's gonna be an option. More like choosing between leaving deserters be or trying to enforce order. I'd bet we'll be working on more or less good guys, even if Bioware mentioned there'll be an urge to hang on the call.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 8, 2016 23:53:07 GMT
I don't think the departure of Sloane Kelley and others of similar thinking was a gentle parting of ways. The novel releasing in March 2017 is entitled "Nexus Uprising". I assume it will fill in some backstory details as to what led up to the "revolt" and our Milky Way raiders' exile from the Nexus.
That's not to suggest that the game won't cover this story well on its own. I'm just pointing out clear evidence at hand right now.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 8, 2016 23:56:06 GMT
I don't think the departure of Sloane Kelley and others of similar thinking was a gentle parting of ways. The novel releasi ng in March 2017 is entitled " Nexus Uprising". I assume it will fill in some backstory details as to what led up to the "revolt" and our Milky Way raiders' exile from the Nexus. So conflict, we just do not know how much of it will be driven by the player and how big an impact will happen in the game in regards to the interpsecies politics in the Andromeda Initiative. But it is worth noting. The gameplay demo did give us a glimpse into ur potential relations with said people. Notably we were there looking for someone, not to bring those colonists back into the fold, willingly or no, and b we did not pull our guns first. Kelly and her Turian did.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 23:57:22 GMT
I don't think the departure of Sloane Kelley and others of similar thinking was a gentle parting of ways. The novel releasing in March 2017 is entitled " Nexus Uprising". I assume it will fill in some backstory details as to what led up to the "revolt" and our Milky Way raiders' exile from the Nexus. That's not to suggest that the game won't cover this story well on its own. I'm just pointing out clear evidence at hand right now. Dunno. Had very low faith on getting an in game explanation if we had to rely on a novel to explain Udina being Councilor in ME3
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 9, 2016 0:08:25 GMT
I don't think the departure of Sloane Kelley and others of similar thinking was a gentle parting of ways. The novel releasing in March 2017 is entitled " Nexus Uprising". I assume it will fill in some backstory details as to what led up to the "revolt" and our Milky Way raiders' exile from the Nexus. That's not to suggest that the game won't cover this story well on its own. I'm just pointing out clear evidence at hand right now. Dunno. Had very low faith on getting an in game explanation if we had to rely on a novel to explain Udina being Councilor in ME3 That single thing was strange, but not too big a deal, in my opinion. They never should've let us express an opinion on who should be selected as humanity's Councilor. That was a serious Derp moment in the series. I viewed that "surprise, it's now Udina" moment as sloppily executed clean-up. I expected someone to mention DAI and The Masked Empire. I think ME has a good track record of separating the novels from the games. DA, not so much, due to TME. That's not what this thread is about, though.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 9, 2016 0:16:29 GMT
I don't think the departure of Sloane Kelley and others of similar thinking was a gentle parting of ways. The novel releasi ng in March 2017 is entitled " Nexus Uprising". I assume it will fill in some backstory details as to what led up to the "revolt" and our Milky Way raiders' exile from the Nexus. So conflict, we just do not know how much of it will be driven by the player and how big an impact will happen in the game in regards to the interpsecies politics in the Andromeda Initiative. But it is worth noting. The gameplay demo did give us a glimpse into ur potential relations with said people. Notably we were there looking for someone, not to bring those colonists back into the fold, willingly or no, and b we did not pull our guns first. Kelly and her Turian did. Sloane's crew was interspecies, so I think you are on the right track when you talk about issues with leadership, rather than inter-species beef. Pushing back against leadership is her MO, as we know. I'm sure we will still have krogan angry about the genophage, turians who dislike krogan, etc... but I doubt that was directly responsible for the "Nexus Uprising". Maybe Sloane united disparate disgruntled groups, in the end, so these issues could've indirectly been involved, in the beginning. It makes you wonder if the uprising served someone else's purpose. Is some unseen meddler working to weaken us by tearing us apart? Divide and conquer? Seems possible, but it's hard to guess whom it could be when we haven't even played 5 minutes of the game.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 9, 2016 0:20:21 GMT
Or it all began when the Nexus cafeteria cancelled Taco Tuesdays... and the resulting protest spiralled ever-so-slightly out of hand?
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Post by colfoley on Dec 9, 2016 0:26:04 GMT
So conflict, we just do not know how much of it will be driven by the player and how big an impact will happen in the game in regards to the interpsecies politics in the Andromeda Initiative. But it is worth noting. The gameplay demo did give us a glimpse into ur potential relations with said people. Notably we were there looking for someone, not to bring those colonists back into the fold, willingly or no, and b we did not pull our guns first. Kelly and her Turian did. Sloane's crew was interspecies, so I think you are on the right track when you talk about issues with leadership, rather than inter-species beef. Pushing back against leadership is her MO, as we know. I'm sure we will still have krogan angry about the genophage, turians who dislike krogan, etc... but I doubt that was directly responsible for the "Nexus Uprising". Maybe Sloane united disparate disgruntled groups, in the end, so these issues could've indirectly been involved, in the beginning. It makes you wonder if the uprising served someone else's purpose. Is some unseen meddler working to weaken us by tearing us apart? Divide and conquer? Seems possible, but it's hard to guess whom it could be when we haven't even played 5 minutes of the game. The ony unseen meddler I could see who would want to meddle in the project would be an indoctrinated agent. Unless of course you have an Andrew Ryan/ Sofia Lamb scenario going on which could be...interesting I suppose.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 9, 2016 0:31:21 GMT
Sloane's crew was interspecies, so I think you are on the right track when you talk about issues with leadership, rather than inter-species beef. Pushing back against leadership is her MO, as we know. I'm sure we will still have krogan angry about the genophage, turians who dislike krogan, etc... but I doubt that was directly responsible for the "Nexus Uprising". Maybe Sloane united disparate disgruntled groups, in the end, so these issues could've indirectly been involved, in the beginning. It makes you wonder if the uprising served someone else's purpose. Is some unseen meddler working to weaken us by tearing us apart? Divide and conquer? Seems possible, but it's hard to guess whom it could be when we haven't even played 5 minutes of the game. The ony unseen meddler I could see who would want to meddle in the project would be an indoctrinated agent. Unless of course you have an Andrew Ryan/ Sofia Lamb scenario going on which could be...interesting I suppose. I'd say the kett are the most likely group that we know of who would like to see us fail. We have no idea as to what their capabilities might be, in terms of sowing dissension. There could also be other threats and foes of which we aren't yet aware. It could also simply be that Sloane is a rebellious a-hole, as her profile suggests. (Great hire, Jien!) Something significant happens, though, to get an "uprising" to occur.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 9, 2016 0:34:17 GMT
The ony unseen meddler I could see who would want to meddle in the project would be an indoctrinated agent. Unless of course you have an Andrew Ryan/ Sofia Lamb scenario going on which could be...interesting I suppose. I'd say the kett are the most likely group that we know of who would like to see us fail. We have no idea as to what their capabilities might be, in terms of sowing dissension. There could also be other threats and foes of which we aren't yet aware. It could also simply be that Sloane is a rebellious a-hole, as her profile suggests. (Great hire, Jien!) Something significant happens, though, to get an "uprising" to occur. Didn't consider the Kett but it could make sense given what we know. IE they could bribe someone in the AI with resources or promises of protection.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 9, 2016 0:38:53 GMT
I'd say the kett are the most likely group that we know of who would like to see us fail. We have no idea as to what their capabilities might be, in terms of sowing dissension. There could also be other threats and foes of which we aren't yet aware. It could also simply be that Sloane is a rebellious a-hole, as her profile suggests. (Great hire, Jien!) Something significant happens, though, to get an "uprising" to occur. Didn't consider the Kett but it could make sense given what we know. IE they could bribe someone in the AI with resources or promises of protection. Yeah, we have no idea what resources or means they may have at their disposal. We don't know their typical behaviors or tactics, or if this would even be typical of their methods. We do know that they don't appreciate having us in their star cluster, though. It could be another threat altogether. Who can say? Speculation from everyone! (For old times.)
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Post by ProbeAway on Dec 9, 2016 0:38:53 GMT
I like this idea, OP. Just to nitpick tho - the AI was founded in 2176 which is seven years before the attack on Eden Prime. On that basis I don't see how anyone in the AI could have been motivated by the reaper threat, at least not until much closer to launch. They wanted to push the boundaries of exploration and discovery. Go to a place where no one has gone before. Be a Pioneer, a part of something awesome. It's been a driving factor throughout human history. I really don't see why we need to come up with any other reason than that. I think the frustration from some fans comes from the fact that 99% of the Milky Way is still unexplored too. Let's face it, this is only happening to escape the ME3 endings. I've made my peace with that tho and I'm still excited to explore Andromeda.
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Post by azarhal on Dec 9, 2016 1:04:17 GMT
About the "people's freedom", the second briefing does mention "waiting for a short time on the Nexus" until immigration assign people a new homeworld and the place is secured. I get the feeling that "short time" ended up not being that short and people got pissed and caused an uprising which ended with them losing and getting kicked out.
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