DoomsdayDevice
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Oh, me so scrubby! Me pugging long time! --- 78 URs to go
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Prime Posts: 2357
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Oh, me so scrubby! Me pugging long time! --- 78 URs to go
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Jan 14, 2017 20:04:09 GMT
Of course the damn ship needs guns.
There's a zillion situations where it could be useful, not even counting encounters with intelligent aliens.
To think otherwise is absolutely naive and stupid.
Better to have them and not need them than the other way round.
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Post by hammerstorm on Jan 14, 2017 20:06:06 GMT
hammerstormYes, it's very clever to leave armored vehicle and fight at open space because we decided that some turrels on the board will be useless... You can spread out your group better and therefore use the Nomad as a shield and then attack with more weapon and biotic. Because if the personnel driving the nomad can't keep the vehicle from severe damage I don't trust that they can manage to both drive and shoot a cannon. And you have still not explained why a recon unit should have heavy weapons that will impact the mobility of the vehicle. Or do you just try to make it go away by ignoring it?
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Post by hammerstorm on Jan 14, 2017 20:24:48 GMT
You can spread out your group better and therefore use the Nomad as a shield and then attack with more weapon and biotic. Because if the personnel driving the nomad can't keep the vehicle from severe damage I don't trust that they can manage to both drive and shoot a cannon. Historically many recon vehicles had guns. Not the same size of a tank obviously, but something like a lighter cannon or a machine gun was rather common. It is also fairly common today. And that's the reason why you have a driver and a gunner in military vehicles, so everyone can concentrate on their job. That's not really a good reason to go unarmed. I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record. So apologies in advance: I actually agree that the removal of weapon on the Nomad is not very clever. But because we know that it is done from a gameplay perspective and not from in-universe perspective, there is only two things we can do: Try to see how it might work in the setting and make it less "immersive breaking" Or Try to see how it don't work in the setting and complain that it is "immersive breaking" I know that there is good reason from both sides, but since we only have one side in the game (unless they make it possible to put drack on the roof) I can only try to make people see it from that perspective. Since I don't see what more I can say to make anyone see it this way, I will now escape and take a beer.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 14, 2017 20:29:43 GMT
I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record. So apologies in advance: I actually agree that the removal of weapon on the Nomad is not very clever. But because we know that it is done from a gameplay perspective and not from in-universe perspective, there is only two things we can do: Try to see how it might work in the setting and make it less "immersive breaking" Or Try to see how it don't work in the setting and complain that it is "immersive breaking" My issue with this is, that I'd expect from the developers to put a little more care into their designs in order for them NOT to become immersion breaking. It's not my job to find lore excuses for dumb design decisions. As with many other things in this game, this decision just shows even more that Bioware doesn't care about lore or logic with this game.
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Abramsrunner
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
Origin: Abramsrunner
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Post by Abramsrunner on Jan 14, 2017 20:38:07 GMT
Is ramming speed not a thing?
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Post by nem7 on Jan 14, 2017 21:12:03 GMT
And you have still not explained why a recon unit should have heavy weapons that will impact the mobility of the vehicle. Or do you just try to make it go away by ignoring it? Will two machineguns impact the mobility of the vehicle? Rhetorical question. Threat can be hidden. It's not a matter of crew experience. For example we ride on mine. Wheel is broken. 20 soldiers are running to us. What is better: a) go out and encouter with 20 soldiers? shoot 15 of them from inside with turrels and then go out and encounter with 5 soldiers? It's so obvious that i'm almost mad that I have to explain that!
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Post by Abramsrunner on Jan 14, 2017 21:22:30 GMT
I pick option "a", it's professional to get out of the car in a group representation meeting.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Jan 14, 2017 21:27:21 GMT
spacebeetleIn ME1 MAKO easily shot giant worms. In ME2 we were put into condition to kill the maw by foot. Andromeda vehicles are made to evac us fast, to reduce collateral damage to planets. It’s a safety measure, obviously.The only question everyone ignored: WHAT IF NOMAD WILL BE DAMAGED??? I think the crew is more valuable than random desert or rocky planet! Thats why I've always been insisting on a small armed & armored dropship bringing the crew and equipment from the Tempest to the ground - instead of risking the lives of the entire crew of a big ship like the Tempest whenever we explore a new planet. An unarmed completely helpless big target ship. As much as I like Mass Effect, Andromeda is, from a tactical point of view, a complete and utter mess. If I got the Andromeda mission briefing in real life I'd stay out of this mess - I'm a adventure & adrenaline junkie but I'm not stupid.
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keiji
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Post by keiji on Jan 14, 2017 21:29:52 GMT
I can only say what the briefing said. It stated that the ship is "not weighted down by heavy armor or a maingun". That is what we have to go off, that some people see it as if we don't have any armor or weapon at all is another thing. Thank you. To me that's meaning light armor and small guns for the ship. It would be crazy if there is no defense in it.
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Post by jjdxb on Jan 14, 2017 21:31:31 GMT
So what if this was a story based decision? BioWare deliberately wrote the Initiative so as they would choose to not heavily arm the Tempest or Nomad? They aren't military, after all. At best the defence part of the expedition are glorified security guards?
It can't happen any other way. You don't remove weapons from a game like this because of a simple on the spot design decision. Surely the lack of (heavy) armaments on the vehicles is exactly part of the lore and worldbuilding?
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Jan 14, 2017 21:33:15 GMT
Not particularly happy about disarmed nature of the nomad and the tempest. I really hope the nexus is supported by a load of heavily armed craft. That won't stop me disliking the notion of an exploration ship and landing craft that seemed designed solely to run away rather than face hostiles.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Jan 14, 2017 21:56:51 GMT
Not sure about your first thing but I was pretty disapointed that the mako doesn't have weapons on it
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Post by themikefest on Jan 14, 2017 21:57:25 GMT
I can only say what the briefing said. It stated that the ship is "not weighted down by heavy armor or a maingun". That is what we have to go off, that some people see it as if we don't have any armor or weapon at all is another thing. If the car can have a weapon, lets say something like the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun, that weighs less than 100lbs, I doubt it would effect the Nomads performance.
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Post by hammerstorm on Jan 14, 2017 22:09:00 GMT
I can only say what the briefing said. It stated that the ship is "not weighted down by heavy armor or a maingun". That is what we have to go off, that some people see it as if we don't have any armor or weapon at all is another thing. If the car can have a weapon, lets say something like the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun, that weighs less than 100lbs, I doubt it would effect the Nomads performance. anything else I refer to my other posts.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Jan 14, 2017 22:14:33 GMT
I can only say what the briefing said. It stated that the ship is "not weighted down by heavy armor or a maingun". That is what we have to go off, that some people see it as if we don't have any armor or weapon at all is another thing. If the car can have a weapon, lets say something like the M134 GAU-17 Gatling Gun, that weighs less than 100lbs, I doubt it would effect the Nomads performance. And I bet at the same time we will have all kinds of decorative luxury stuff in our ''captains'' quarters. Talk about priorities..... Hey guys look at the awesome bar! Unfortunately we had to get rid of all the weapon systems because the booze and fridge weigh a ton but in case we get attacked we can have a cool one to calm down. *thundering applause*
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Post by themikefest on Jan 14, 2017 22:15:19 GMT
anything else I refer to my other posts. That weapon can be added to the tempest. Right? If they're so worried about the ship being weighted down, why have a krogan? Drack has to weigh about 800lbs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 22:17:36 GMT
I really don't care if they draw in guns that we obviously won't be using anyways... because they're writing the story and designing the game; and they're writing it such that, obviously, there will be no situations that will require us to use guns either while inside the nomad or Tempest. At least one less automated cutscene we have to worry about cutting into our dialogue-wheel-time.
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keiji
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by keiji on Jan 14, 2017 23:44:30 GMT
I really don't care if they draw in guns that we obviously won't be using anyways... because they're writing the story and designing the game; and they're writing it such that, obviously, there will be no situations that will require us to use guns either while inside the nomad or Tempest. At least one less automated cutscene we have to worry about cutting into our dialogue-wheel-time. Actually that's right. We probably won't have to do some fight with the Tempest and the Nomad so it doesn't really matter. Guys I understand some post here but it's a Sci-Fi game which takes place after 2900 I think, stop being so worried.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 14, 2017 23:51:04 GMT
What does that even mean? If it has one weapon, that's its main gun, by default. I don't expect it to have a Thanix cannon as that may not have been available by the time they left. But for fuck's sake, it better have something. It has a pistol in the glovebox.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jan 14, 2017 23:57:12 GMT
Don't play it...?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 0:03:26 GMT
I really don't care if they draw in guns that we obviously won't be using anyways... because they're writing the story and designing the game; and they're writing it such that, obviously, there will be no situations that will require us to use guns either while inside the nomad or Tempest. At least one less automated cutscene we have to worry about cutting into our dialogue-wheel-time. *facepalm* Immersion is all about making an otherwise fantastic universe make sense logically within its own set of rules. Design decisions that follow this idea don't break immersion. Design decisions that are only defended by unrealistic arguments and the fact that the writers control the story and potential dangers, are an anathema to the idea of immersion I still just don't care. It's not a issue to me. AFAIK, NASA didn't put heavy weapons on the space shuttle, so I can accept a space exploration vehicle that doesn't have them. People here are more into insisting that Bioware write their stories completely in a way that those people want them written... right down to every comma and period and every bit of artwork in it. I say, if those people want to write their own games so badly, why don't they just get together and do it. There's apparently lots of money to be made out there... and then I'd just have more games to choose from. All this "if we run into this or that" is really moot; because unless Bioware writes the situation into the game; we are quite simply not going to run into this or that imagined by the people here. We're going to run into what Bioware imagines is pertinent to their story and the universe for which they are creating the rules. It doesn't have "its own set of rules"... not yet.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jan 15, 2017 0:17:59 GMT
They bring up a great point in their second concern, sir.
If the ship we land on has no weapon support, meaning no air support in hairy situations, and our apc that takes us even further into unknown and potentially hostile territory also has no armaments... what happens when we come under heavy fire and/or become pinned down? We have no possibility of air or heavy ground support. This makes the chances of mission success drop by 46.9 %.
I feel this may indeed by a foolhardy decision and one that could easily be avoided by integrating a pair of hidden rail guns within the exterior shell of the nomad.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Jan 15, 2017 1:26:54 GMT
*facepalm* Immersion is all about making an otherwise fantastic universe make sense logically within its own set of rules. Design decisions that follow this idea don't break immersion. Design decisions that are only defended by unrealistic arguments and the fact that the writers control the story and potential dangers, are an anathema to the idea of immersion I still just don't care. It's not a issue to me. AFAIK, NASA didn't put heavy weapons on the space shuttle, so I can accept a space exploration vehicle that doesn't have them. In the Mass Effect universe when the human race discovered Aliens a bloody war happened. Having humans sent on a one-way trip into a completely new system underarmed and ill-equipped in terms of firepower and vehicles is an illogical decision if I ever saw one.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 15, 2017 3:57:06 GMT
I still just don't care. It's not a issue to me. AFAIK, NASA didn't put heavy weapons on the space shuttle, so I can accept a space exploration vehicle that doesn't have them. How many of those space shuttles traveled to another galaxy?
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Post by derrame on Jan 15, 2017 4:10:39 GMT
as far as i know this mission is not a military operation like an invasion, the pathfinder is like an explorer, the ship is to transport, not attack
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