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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 0:13:10 GMT
The main two reasons I'm skeptical are: 1) The concept of Andromeda, while interesting, comes across as a contrived excuse to extend a series that should have been finished after its third installment 2) The game is coming out in slightly less than two months and we've heard very little about it I'm not saying it will be bad. I can't think of any Bioware game that was flat out bad. However, I don't have very high expectations at the moment. I take issue with the first reason, mostly because I think 4 games for an IP is not excessive ( compare that to other popular game IPs) and everyone knows they fucked up the ending of the trilogy. They deserve another chance to get it right. I also feel the premise to Andromeda is quite good, as good as ME1 in fact. If they fuck Andromeda up, then it's really time to move on. After 4 duds in a row for the core fanbase (DA2, Old Republic, ME3, and Inquisition's lukewarm reception), no point in giving them a chance.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 15, 2017 0:16:14 GMT
Well can we at least wait for the game to actually come out before we judge it like this? There are enough trailers and enough developer input however vague it is suggesting some very questionable design and plot choices. It will probably be OK-ish and won't fail outright but it certainly does not look brilliant. My main personal concerns are with multiplayer design which so far seems to be plain bad and wrong. Also, the devil is in details and the details that are shown do not look good. How tedious the actual gameplay is and how responsive the controls are? This remains to be seen of course and cannot be judged from the trailers. Combat seems to be a hybrid of Overwatch with Kingdoms of Amalur which might be actually good provided that it is not very hectic and can be streamlined somehow. So, yes, some things are clear cut already while others remain to be seen. Just curious: what in the gameplay that was shown looks like Overwatch? I have seen a lot of Overwatch and have seen a lot of the MEA material, and I would not have drawn that comparison, so I am curious.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 15, 2017 0:17:04 GMT
Yea I'm not sure what he is talking about. Unless he is referring to the ME3 ending? Let's see. Cutting story elements into "essential DLC", outright lying about what the game will have (every piece of marketing material may not show up in final product), "Please buy our next game. We know you don't trust us core fanbase, but give us a chance, pinky-swear!" Yes, ME3 played a significant portion of that. As to the cutting story elements into essential DLC...I would argue that no DLC is truly essential (aside from perhaps the Extended Cut but that was free.) Omega/ Leviathan wasn't essential for ME 3 and Tresspasser wasn't essential for DA I. But we know, or at least anyone who has studied game design for any length of time, knows that things end up on the cutting room floor all the time. Especially when you have a set data budget and you cannot put the experience you want in the game. So take Tresspasser for instance, there was a rumor that in the original game the plan was to have you play as Solas during an epligue and that idea bloomed into the essential plot line of Tresspasser. Now Tresspasser was an amazing DLC, hours of fun, fleshed out, deep plot, great character moments, and more importantly it was fleshed out. Could we have gotten that same experience had they shoe horned it in at the end as a tacky add on to the plot of DA I like some malgnant tail? I doubt it. As to the latter. Much more worthy of criticism. But I think a few things tend to apply. 1. BioWare in the past, with DA I, seemed to do a lot of things and say a lot of things in their marketing which directly contradicted each other, 2. everything that they marketed in DA Is marketing campaign was in the game. At least technically. 3. To avoid those problems they are having a much tighter and well orchestrated marketing campaign...and people are bitching about it.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jan 15, 2017 0:17:17 GMT
Yea I'm not sure what he is talking about. Unless he is referring to the ME3 ending? Let's see. Cutting story elements into "essential DLC", outright lying about what the game will have (every piece of marketing material may not show up in final product), "Please buy our next game. We know you don't trust us core fanbase, but give us a chance, pinky-swear!" Yes, ME3 played a significant portion of that. We don't know the whole story only that EA rushed it and we got an unfinished game. Tie the dots together now. Of course they would want to release it if they could. You talk as if Bioware always enjoyed deliberately cutting stuff out of their games, cause that's so helpful. I guess you skipped the DA2 fiasco too. I trust them. What are you even on?
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Post by colfoley on Jan 15, 2017 0:17:54 GMT
I take issue with the first reason, mostly because I think 4 games for an IP is not excessive ( compare that to other popular game IPs) and everyone knows they fucked up the ending of the trilogy. They deserve another chance to get it right. I also feel the premise to Andromeda is quite good, as good as ME1 in fact. If they fuck Andromeda up, then it's really time to move on. After 4 duds in a row for the core fanbase (DA2, Old Republic, ME3, and Inquisition's lukewarm reception), no point in giving them a chance. All depends on taste. The only 'dud' BioWare has done is TOR, and that has more to do with MMOs not being my cup of tea then anything.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jan 15, 2017 0:19:46 GMT
Hell, I don't even love DAI that much, but lukearm reception? Oh, yes. All those awards were for the lolz. ME3 was critically acclaimed as well. Probably the best ME.
Humor me now.
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 15, 2017 0:19:54 GMT
The speculation comes from...well I will let the below explain. ww.youtube.com/v/KMEtx4kXM3s?start=1405&end=1476&version=3Edit: sorry video did not terminate where it should: goo.gl/3yCRuU
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jan 15, 2017 0:21:21 GMT
Probably has to do with that ever since being taken over by EA bioware games have been shifting more and more towards EA's (and a lot of others) modus operandi of appeal to as many people as possible regardless of the effect on the games. Aka less and less RPG in their RPGs. That said, I enjoy most bioware games just as much as I did their earlier titles. I think in game development, appealing to as many people as possible (if successfully achieved) would be considered a good thing? I'm thinking that AAA game budgets can't be justified on a niche title for so-called 'hardcore gamers/RPGamers'. For the company absolutely. It's a business after all. For the players, however, not so much. There's a reason that their most adored titles are things such as baldur's gate, kotor, and ME1.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 0:23:46 GMT
Hell, I don't even love DAI that much, but lukearm reception? Oh, yes. All those awards were for the lolz. ME3 was critically acclaimed as well. Probably the best ME. Humor me now. I said CORE FANBASE. Jeez, is reading comprehension foreign to you? I did not include the gaming critics for a reason.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jan 15, 2017 0:26:15 GMT
Hell, I don't even love DAI that much, but lukearm reception? Oh, yes. All those awards were for the lolz. ME3 was critically acclaimed as well. Probably the best ME. Humor me now. I said CORE FANBASE. Jeez, is reading comprehension foreign to you? I did not include the gaming critics for a reason. Um? Plenty of people liked it, even here. This is the cliché self entitled "I don't like it, therefore nobody should." K.
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Post by venomsnakeee on Jan 15, 2017 0:34:15 GMT
If anything, I hope the game isn't super buggy and the animations aren't terrible. Although we haven't heard much of the story, I'm interested in what we have been told, and what we've seen in trailers. I hope the story is good. Any game that comes out whether its another mass effect, or any other game, I will always hope the story turns out being good.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 15, 2017 0:54:32 GMT
I think in game development, appealing to as many people as possible (if successfully achieved) would be considered a good thing? I'm thinking that AAA game budgets can't be justified on a niche title for so-called 'hardcore gamers/RPGamers'. For the company absolutely. It's a business after all. For the players, however, not so much. There's a reason that their most adored titles are things such as baldur's gate, kotor, and ME1. Nope, don't understand your logic: Loads of people like it = players don't like it? That makes no sense. If they try to appeal to loads of people and fail, that's a different matter. And I remember Baldur's Gate (and particularly its successor) being hugely successful. Mass Effect Andromeda is a mature game, so the youngsters are not being appealed to. As far as we know it's not appealing to the PVP crowd. It's not FPS so the FPS enthusiasts aren't catered to. Doesn't look like a strategy of 'appeal to everyone' to me, or am I missing something?
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Post by Iakus on Jan 15, 2017 0:59:29 GMT
Probably has to do with that ever since being taken over by EA bioware games have been shifting more and more towards EA's (and a lot of others) modus operandi of appeal to as many people as possible regardless of the effect on the games. Aka less and less RPG in their RPGs. That said, I enjoy most bioware games just as much as I did their earlier titles. I think in game development, appealing to as many people as possible (if successfully achieved) would be considered a good thing? I'm thinking that AAA game budgets can't be justified on a niche title for so-called 'hardcore gamers/RPGamers'. www.taleswithmorals.com/aesop-fable-the-man-the-boy-and-the-donkey.htm
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Post by Iakus on Jan 15, 2017 1:02:33 GMT
The main two reasons I'm skeptical are: 1) The concept of Andromeda, while interesting, comes across as a contrived excuse to extend a series that should have been finished after its third installment 2) The game is coming out in slightly less than two months and we've heard very little about it I'm not saying it will be bad. I can't think of any Bioware game that was flat out bad. However, I don't have very high expectations at the moment. I take issue with the first reason, mostly because I think 4 games for an IP is not excessive (compare that to other popular game IPs) and everyone knows they fucked up the ending of the trilogy. They deserve another chance to get it right. I also feel the premise to Andromeda is quite good, as good as ME1 in fact. If they fuck Andromeda up, then it's really time to move on. The premise of Andromeda, that has been revelealed so far, at least, is pretty half-baked. I'm almost hoping it's been infiltrated by Cerberus or something so it's been set up to fail.
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Post by Sailears on Jan 15, 2017 1:03:41 GMT
People are being sceptical because the entire game seems like the most desperate attempt to continue a franchise. They went as far as taking all the familiar things and moving them to another freaking galaxy. It makes no sense story-wise, it makes no sense lore-wise, but all that be damned. Mass Effect = $$$ It also seems like instead of boldly expanding upon what we all think Mass Effect is/should be, they're going the safe route and injecting it with as much ME1 nostalgia as they can. The results so far seem all too familiar, and not exactly what I'd call new or exciting. Just think about it. The one and only reason they moved the entire freaking franchise to another freaking galaxy is to not have to address the endings they created whatsoever. MEA is nothing more than an excuse to have Mass Effect. It's not meant to make sense. It's not meant to provide answers. It's probably just meant to have things that go boom. In space. And make shitloads of money for EA. Yeah in a nutshell.
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Post by pdusen on Jan 15, 2017 1:05:39 GMT
Because BioWare is held to ridiculously high standards. People will give all kinds of answers, but this is all it boils down to.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 15, 2017 1:16:00 GMT
Hell, I don't even love DAI that much, but lukearm reception? Oh, yes. All those awards were for the lolz. ME3 was critically acclaimed as well. Probably the best ME. Humor me now. I said CORE FANBASE. Jeez, is reading comprehension foreign to you? I did not include the gaming critics for a reason. How would you define core fanbase?
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 15, 2017 1:45:35 GMT
I said CORE FANBASE. Jeez, is reading comprehension foreign to you? I did not include the gaming critics for a reason. How would you define core fanbase? Ok. I will define it: Merriam-Webster defines CORE as it relates here: "A basic, essential, or enduring part (as of an individual, a class, or an entity)" Merriam-Webster defines FANBASE as it relates here: "A group of fans for a particular sport or team" So a core fanbase in this regard is an enduring group of fans that are essential to the entity known as the series: Mass Effect.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 15, 2017 1:49:06 GMT
How would you define core fanbase? Ok. I will define it: Merriam-Webster defines CORE as it relates here: "A basic, essential, or enduring part (as of an individual, a class, or an entity)" Merriam-Webster defines FANBASE as it relates here: "A group of fans for a particular sport or team" So a core fanbase in this regard is an enduring group of fans that are essential to the entity known as the series: Mass Effect. Then that definition looses all meaning in the current because that definition could then extend to anyone who buys the game, considering ME A will probably need all the sails it can get to be considered A. A success by EA and B. ensure future DLC or installments in the franchise.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jan 15, 2017 1:49:52 GMT
I take issue with the first reason, mostly because I think 4 games for an IP is not excessive (compare that to other popular game IPs) and everyone knows they fucked up the ending of the trilogy. They deserve another chance to get it right. I also feel the premise to Andromeda is quite good, as good as ME1 in fact. If they fuck Andromeda up, then it's really time to move on. The premise of Andromeda, that has been revelealed so far, at least, is pretty half-baked. I'm almost hoping it's been infiltrated by Cerberus or something so it's been set up to fail.What have you done to my Iakus.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 15, 2017 1:54:57 GMT
As far as the idiocy of the AI is concerned. I think its in this case its intentional. The difference between good writing and bad writing when it comes to logical inconsitencies is if the narrative, or people in the narrative can call it out for its BS. We could not call the Catlyst out on its bs, hence why the ending of ME 3 remains bad writing.
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Post by akots on Jan 15, 2017 2:04:10 GMT
Just curious: what in the gameplay that was shown looks like Overwatch? I have seen a lot of Overwatch and have seen a lot of the MEA material, and I would not have drawn that comparison, so I am curious. I've played a little bit of Overwatch and a lot of Kingdom of Amalur, so it is just my impressions of looking at the game part trailers. Also, Fraizer had been the main developer of KoA and possible similarities with Overwatch have been noted by Fabrice: gamerant.com/mass-effect-andromeda-destiny-overwatch/
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 2:26:34 GMT
Geralt & Co. push some buttons up in here man, fuck me sideways..... Mass Effect and The Witcher are my 2 favourite RPG franchises, never did I know until today that there was such a bitter underbelly of resentment and stabbery in the background There is this weird brand loyalty to Bioware among some DA fans where any mention of CD Projekt Red or The Witcher 3 triggers them. Granted this thread was a shitpost intended to provoke a an angry reaction, but even on the old boards in the Witcher 3 thread, you had a few Bioware fans who'd pop in occasionally to bash the game or ramble about how DA:I was supposedly superior, despite admitting to having never played The Witcher 3. It was really bizarre. To be fair, maybe a similar thing goes on at CD Projekt Red's forums and you have people saying Bioware's games blow without having played them. I don't post there, so I have no idea. On the BSN however I found the people who thought the Witcher 3 was better than DA:I to be a more reasonable crowd overall, minus the occasional troll, because at least their opinion was formed after having played both games. A lot of the BSN's 'TW3 sucks' crowd never played it. I just do not understand brand loyalty at all. The only thing either Bioware or CD Projekt Red cares about it is separating consumers from their cash. That's it, so why give either of them blind loyalty? On that note I hope both Andromeda and Cyberpunk 2077 are equally great games, so the people who bought them get their money's worth.
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Post by pixiqui on Jan 15, 2017 2:31:21 GMT
It makes sense for people to be skeptical and I dont blame them, although im more on the optimistic side, im still skeptical myself and im gonna keep my expectations low. Between mass effect 3's ending, dragon age inquisition, dragon age 2, bioware's new direction of games pandering to a more casual audience plus lacking some former rpg elements in their most recent games, it makes sense. Once a gaming company makes big mistakes and majorly disappoints fans, its hard to win back that trust. Same thing happened with the sims fan base when simcity and sims 4 came out, alot fans are gonna be really skeptical when the next title comes out because maxis lost alot of the fans trust. So thats whats going on wih the mass effect fan base at the moment in other words bioware has some making up to do. Im sure andromeda will have to be really good or amazing for people to really trust bioware again. So theres nothing wrong with being skeptical or pessimistic, Its just annoying when people are negative about every little thing though, just makes you come off as a negative nancy.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 15, 2017 2:35:05 GMT
It makes sense for people to be skeptical and I dont blame them, although im more on the optimistic side, im still skeptical myself and im gonna keep my expectations low. Between mass effect 3's ending, dragon age inquisition, dragon age 2, bioware's new direction of games pandering to a more casual audience plus lacking some former rpg elements in their most recent games, it makes sense. Once a gaming company makes big mistakes and majorly disappoints fans, its hard to win back that trust. Same thing happened with the sims fan base when simcity and sims 4 came out, alot fans are gonna be really skeptical when the next title comes out because maxis lost alot of the fans trust. So thats whats going on wih the mass effect fan base at the moment in other words bioware has some making up to do. Im sure andromeda will have to be really good or amazing for people to really trust bioware again. So theres nothing wrong with being skeptical or pessimistic, Its just annoying when people are negative about every little thing though, just makes you come off as a negative nancy. How is anything about Dragon Age Inquisition, or ME A 'casual' both games represent serious, serious, serious time commitments.
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