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Post by stealthfox94 on Jan 15, 2017 5:37:23 GMT
I'm not "triggered" at all, I just dislike double standards. I mean, it's rather obvious what Bioware's reaction would have been if instead of "whites" his rants on his official twatter were about blacks, gays, muslims, or whatever else. Double standard? So what about the double standard of when we have an all white cast....male only hero....and heterosexual romance it is ok. But let there be homosexual romances and black/brown heros then all of a suddent it is SJW pandering. Is that not a double standard? So what that Krem was placed there as some LGBT stance. The only people who would be offended are those who subconsciously has some sort of homophobia. Honestly I think the alt right anti-SJW crowd are just as bad if not worse than actual SJW's at this point. Can't we just find a happy medium?
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Post by Cypher on Jan 15, 2017 5:42:12 GMT
Double standard? So what about the double standard of when we have an all white cast....male only hero....and heterosexual romance it is ok. But let there be homosexual romances and black/brown heros then all of a suddent it is SJW pandering. Is that not a double standard? So what that Krem was placed there as some LGBT stance. The only people who would be offended are those who subconsciously has some sort of homophobia. Honestly I think the alt right anti-SJW crowd are just as bad if not worse than actual SJW's at this point. Can't we just find a happy medium? Of course not; unless you 100% agree with either side of the argument, you're an enemy.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 15, 2017 5:43:30 GMT
Honestly I think the alt right anti-SJW crowd are just as bad if not worse than actual SJW's at this point. Can't we just find a happy medium? Of course not; unless you 100% agree with either side of the argument, you're an enemy. Which is very frustrating for those of us 'stuck in the middle.' I mean hell there are gamers who do this sort of thing to just look at the debates between CDPR and BioWare.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 15, 2017 5:45:47 GMT
Of course not; unless you 100% agree with either side of the argument, you're an enemy. Which is very frustrating for those of us 'stuck in the middle.' I mean hell there are gamers who do this sort of thing to just look at the debates between CDPR and BioWare. What is SJW?
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Post by colfoley on Jan 15, 2017 5:51:48 GMT
Which is very frustrating for those of us 'stuck in the middle.' I mean hell there are gamers who do this sort of thing to just look at the debates between CDPR and BioWare. What is SJW? Social Justice Warrior. Generally speaking the concept of someone who is pro LGBT (and some other nominally disenfranchised groups) who are really, really, really, annoying in thier presentation. They tend to attack those who disagree with them. Tend to scream. And even tend to do things like reverse discrimination. Someone who is more pro SJW might have a different definition then me, and I welcome to hear an alternative viewpoint actually, but most people who are labeled SJWs probably wouldn't look on the term very favorably themselves (at least in my experience few people go around calling themselves an SJW...and this post ended up a lot longer then I was intending)
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 15, 2017 5:56:43 GMT
Social Justice Warrior. Generally speaking the concept of someone who is pro LGBT (and some other nominally disenfranchised groups) who are really, really, really, annoying in thier presentation. They tend to attack those who disagree with them. Tend to scream. And even tend to do things like reverse discrimination. Someone who is more pro SJW might have a different definition then me, and I welcome to hear an alternative viewpoint actually, but most people who are labeled SJWs probably wouldn't look on the term very favorably themselves (at least in my experience few people go around calling themselves an SJW...and this post ended up a lot longer then I was intending) Thank you for the info.
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Post by stealthfox94 on Jan 15, 2017 6:03:41 GMT
Social Justice Warrior. Generally speaking the concept of someone who is pro LGBT (and some other nominally disenfranchised groups) who are really, really, really, annoying in thier presentation. They tend to attack those who disagree with them. Tend to scream. And even tend to do things like reverse discrimination. Someone who is more pro SJW might have a different definition then me, and I welcome to hear an alternative viewpoint actually, but most people who are labeled SJWs probably wouldn't look on the term very favorably themselves (at least in my experience few people go around calling themselves an SJW...and this post ended up a lot longer then I was intending) To put it simply they are far leftist authoritarians.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Jan 15, 2017 6:07:53 GMT
Assuming the game is a big pile of shit to then be surprised that it's good is a superior mindset than assuming it will be a good/great game only to find out that it's a steaming pile of shit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 7:01:50 GMT
Hey, even if the game is a failure, there will be a great MrBTongue video about it ... in 50 years, possibly.
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Post by armass81 on Jan 15, 2017 7:04:05 GMT
Which is very frustrating for those of us 'stuck in the middle.' I mean hell there are gamers who do this sort of thing to just look at the debates between CDPR and BioWare. What is SJW? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior
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Post by Plague Doctor on Jan 15, 2017 7:24:41 GMT
I dont really see the problem with the Manveer thing. He isnt really that high up in the food chain so i doubt his opinions will influence the story/characters.
Also, a lot of creative people are giant douchebags. Frank Miller is an open sexist who writes most of his female (grown up) characters as either sex-crazed, irrational, or prostitutes, portrays Wonder Woman as a straw feminist who hates all men but really just wants to be taken hard by Superman, and stated in an interview that the 50's had it right when it comes to gender roles, but i dont see people throwing away their copies of Sin City and The Dark Knight Returns. (Even though both of these stories are overrated anyway imo.)
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Post by Plague Doctor on Jan 15, 2017 7:41:40 GMT
Frank Miller is an open sexist who writes most of his female (grown up) characters as either sex-crazed, irrational, or prostitutes I'm not really a fan of superheroes or comics, but I have a feeling that this summation isn't something that is agreed upon by most people aside from Sarkeesian and her ilk. But even assuming that this is true and this guy is indeed sexist, one sexist asshole doesn't excuse the actions of another racist asshole. My point is that if we only played games/read books/watched movies/ listened to music of decent people we wouldnt be able to enjoy 80% of the things that are out there. Manveer is even remarkably tame when compared to other content creators. Also, i dont think Sarkeesian ever commented on Frank Miller? Im not sure though.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 15, 2017 7:49:46 GMT
The Mass Effect 3 ending (and Mass Effect 3 in general) still lingers in fans minds so that may explain the skepticism.
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Post by urkibalurki on Jan 15, 2017 7:54:35 GMT
Are you people so skeptical about ME:A because of this Manveer guy? Every environment has its short-minded people! How many of your acquaintances are racists, homophobes or worse? And how many will admit it? I don't give a damn about this guy. He was a Mr. Nobody until someone started yelling about a single tweet he wrote, and in my opinion he's still a Mr. Nobody.
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Post by Spectr61 on Jan 15, 2017 8:35:59 GMT
Skepticism?
The ME3 endings were a fiasco. EA market cap fell to the tune of about 1.5 Billion following all the negative reviews. This failure to capitalize on the good will built by ME1&2 would seemingly lead to some sort of accountability for those in charge.
Mac Walters was the lead writer for ME3.
He got promoted to creative director for MEA.
Why would anyone be skeptic if the responsible party for the ME3 endings was in charge of Andromeda?
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Post by elanor on Jan 15, 2017 8:54:28 GMT
Oh my, before I google it I thought Manveer Heir is an alias of Bioware psychofan. It's been a long time since I read anything about Andromeda. Well anyway, I guess you don't have to be white to be racist. I don't understand why they're not doing anyhing about it. I don't know if I should buy this game anymore.
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Post by urkibalurki on Jan 15, 2017 8:55:27 GMT
Are you people so skeptical about ME:A because of this Manveer guy? Every environment has its short-minded people! How many of your acquaintances are racists, homophobes or worse? And how many will admit it? I don't give a damn about this guy. He was a Mr. Nobody until someone started yelling about a single tweet he wrote, and in my opinion he's still a Mr. Nobody. I believe that the original post was about two separate topics. Yes; but it drifted far from its original scope. I've read so many posts yelling "Death to Manveer! Death to Manveer!". I don't think it's important. I know that the OP talked about incurable pessimists and showed concern about a possible abuse of the Nomad; but too many people got only that name and started yelling about it.
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Post by Gileadan on Jan 15, 2017 9:15:37 GMT
I was like wtf is the Manveer Heir thing, is this some kind of new concept of edgyness? than I read that link and just laugh so much, holyshit is this how you trigger white people? I feel nothing. His twitter is really low key, unless I am missing something. Wow, that's cold. Here's the poor guy hating white people, forced by a cruel fate to live in a mostly white country, working for a mostly white company... have some sympathy! Poor sod.
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Post by Double02 on Jan 15, 2017 9:49:52 GMT
I have my doubts in terms of living up to past installments and as a standalone game. That's not going to stop me from buying it. Nor will it stop me from enjoying it for months to come. Everyone has their own expectations.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 15, 2017 12:07:10 GMT
Well done, BSN, for (despite the trigger topics) just about keeping this thread away from fights to avoid sinking into Davy Jones' LOCK. To my mind, the internet naturally amplifies the voices of disgruntled, from whichever side of the argument. Even on this forum, if you test opinion with a poll, such as on the 'Might it fail? thread, >85% don't agree, even if the run of the conversation feels more even. The old BSN was famously branded 'toxic'. From a now deleted blog, David Gaider said a few years ago: "Eventually you get the feeling like you're at one of those parties where all anyone is doing is bitching. It doesn't matter what they're bitching about so much as, sooner or later, that's all you can really hear,"
Some would argue that Dragon Age Inquisition was an abject failure, but by objective standards it was most critically successful game of the year (admittedly not in a standout year). So the bar for a deeply immersed 'fan' who might worry about lore discrepancies or be upset about the purism of auto-dialogue in certain circumstances is in a very different place to an 'ordinary casual gamer' (fun space opera, pew pew...). Sure, there's skepticism, and that's not unreasonable because expectations are high, but I recall that being the case on any BioWare forum as long as I can remember. (example - article from 2011: What's with the recent BioWare hate? www.lo-ping.org/2011/09/12/whats-with-the-recent-bioware-hate/ ) Incidentally, there's a huge audience of newly mature gamers out there, who were barely into their teens when the whole ME3 endings debate kicked off...
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Post by mmoblitz on Jan 15, 2017 12:11:59 GMT
I'm skeptical for two main reasons: ME3 and DAI. I used to be a raving Bio fangirl on the old forums, insisting that BioWare would never make a game that I wouldn't love....then ME3 ending followed by DAI happened and I became disillusioned. Not to mention them closing the forums entirely and dumping the community on its collective and "toxic" butt. (Major kudos to the folks who made this wonderful refuge! It's far better than the other forums ever were.) The best I can hope is that I don't hate MEA. It's just wait and see now, but my old faith and trust is no more. This. I have no faith in Bioware and they haven't given me any reason to. It also doesn't help that they fall under the EA umbrella. That topic though is for another thread.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 15, 2017 12:12:25 GMT
It's a natural response considering Bioware's previous games, the changes in the development team and what we've seen (and not seen) from Andromeda so far. The odds of it matching my hopes and being KoTOR or ME2 level of quality is virtually null, but there still a chance it is as good as ME1 or ME3, which I'm fine with.
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Post by Garo on Jan 15, 2017 12:38:16 GMT
BioWare is really careful so far with promoting this game, yet still they get a lot of hate (mostly on yt), because people are still salty about ME3. I would understand it better if this really looked terrible but TBH Andromeda keeps making right moves in my opinion. I think it's going to be great. Well, we will see.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 15, 2017 13:07:34 GMT
Social Justice Warrior. Generally speaking the concept of someone who is pro LGBT (and some other nominally disenfranchised groups) who are really, really, really, annoying in thier presentation. They tend to attack those who disagree with them. Tend to scream. And even tend to do things like reverse discrimination. Someone who is more pro SJW might have a different definition then me, and I welcome to hear an alternative viewpoint actually, but most people who are labeled SJWs probably wouldn't look on the term very favorably themselves (at least in my experience few people go around calling themselves an SJW...and this post ended up a lot longer then I was intending) Be honest, the whole concept of SJW was created by those who want to label anyone who is for diversity across all media such as film, television, and videogames. It has nothing to do with people being aggressive or "screaming". At the old BSN I created a thread saying how I think it would have been a great idea to have the default Ryders used in the marketing to be of African decent or anything other than white just to break the mold of the standard of white always being default. I didnt yell, I didnt attack, and I didnt label white as being bad. And yet I was the one attacked and called SJW and accused of being Politically Correct and pandering and any other adjective people use today to describe a person who is for diversity and representation. In my opinion, a person who uses the term "SJW" more often than not is usually white, male, and heterosexual. Why? Because it is normally people of that demographic that is most likely to be see the effects of diversity work against them. Whether you want to admit it or not, in the United States at least, the one demographic group who has seen the least social challenges has been those who are white/male/heterosexual. Especially when compared to the social challenges faced by women, gays, and people of color. Notice how it is never a big deal when Gods in movies is always portrayed as white male, or using white people with a painted tan to play Egyptians. But let a black person play a comic book character who has always been white and everyone loses their minds. Something also tells me that had this Ghostbusters reboot had been an all white male cast, the criticism would not have been as harsh. Deny it all you want, but the fact that it was an all woman cast had A LOT to do with the disdain for the movie. I can go on but I will just say this, being white/male/heterosexual has always been seen as default across media and people of this demographic has gotten used to that. So this push for diversity to some can be seen as a challenge to the idea that white/male/heterosexual is the default. I guess Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was a SJW....
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 15, 2017 13:12:46 GMT
Double standard? So what about the double standard of when we have an all white cast....male only hero....and heterosexual romance it is ok. But let there be homosexual romances and black/brown heros then all of a suddent it is SJW pandering. Is that not a double standard? So what that Krem was placed there as some LGBT stance. The only people who would be offended are those who subconsciously has some sort of homophobia. So I'm a "Homophob" because a POS is being openly racist and is tolerated just because of the group he targeted? The horseshoe theory is real. Do you know what is the easiest way to check if something is racist or bigoted? You apply it to a group you care about. (of course that would be opening up another bias, but it's useful nonetheless) Since you were quick to use the "homophobia" card, I'd suggest you go to his twatter and replace every "white' with "gay". As I have no interest in causing this thread to be locked, if you want to argue your regressive opinions further we can take it to the politics thread. If you feel uncomfortable with heavy LGBT representation in videogames....YES, subconsciously that would be grounds for homophobia. You dont have to use derogatory comments or commit hate crimes to be a homophobe. In 2017, most of the racism, sexism, and homophobia is not explicit but implicit and done at the subconscious level.
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