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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jan 19, 2017 20:15:24 GMT
I think it's hardly noticeable becuase Leng spends most of his time looking edgy and only says very short lines. The reason he felt lame was because he had no presence IMO. He was just lame.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 20:23:29 GMT
I think it's hardly noticeable becuase Leng spends most of his time looking edgy and only says very short lines. The reason he felt lame was because he had no presence IMO. He was just lame. Also he cheated. The fight on Thessia where you can't hurt him because of the shield surrounding him was so stupid. In the Saren fight from the original you could always wound Saren, even if he had a shield on and could take a lot of damage. In a sense Kai Leng had to cheat to win the figh on Thessia, which means he didn't actually win.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jan 19, 2017 20:47:44 GMT
It never struck me as particularly bad that scene. It doesn't change Kai Leng is lame, but I thought it was okay if a little forced. I had a bigger problem with the way Shepard reacted to it. Such a narcissistic bitch about it, he is.
Though, I guess Leng is the problem because it's the way you can feel the narrative is trying to enforce this sense of defeat on you that just doesn't come across properly. Seeing thessia doomed really sucks and I'm supposed to feel like it's Cerberus's fault which it is but becuase of Leng it didn't leave the impact it should. But it doesn't change how I still find the sight of Thessia going under Reaper domination really chilling. And again, I just couldn't care less about the aftermath when Shepard acts like a crybaby. There were just too much forced drama in ME3 that I couldn't connect with.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 21:20:05 GMT
You could honestly write essay length pieces on just how Kai Leng completely and utterly fails as a character, and how nearly every time in ME3 he appears, he brings down the overall quality level of whatever scene or mission he is in to such low, cringeworthy levels.
Personally, Kai Leng was the worst thing about ME3. Just such a pointless, one note, cliche, child's cartoon villain character.
And to think Retribution had me hoping he'd be as good as he was in the book in game.
Still, one terrible character isn't going to make me skeptical about Mass Effect: Andromeda.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 19, 2017 21:21:53 GMT
You could honestly write essay length pieces on just how Kai Leng completely and utterly fails as a character, and how nearly every time in ME3 he appears, he brings down the overall quality level of whatever scene or mission he is in to such low, cringeworthy levels. Personally, Kai Leng was the worst thing about ME3. Just such a pointless, one note, cliche, child's cartoon villain character. And to think Retribution had me hoping he'd be as good as he was in the book in game. Still, one terrible character isn't going to make me skeptical about Mass Effect: Andromeda. Honestly if one terrible character would bring down my expectations for Andromeda it'd be Liara and not Kai Leng. (as bad as he was).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 21:24:47 GMT
Liara's one of my favourite characters. Though, I absolutely did not like how she was Mass Effect's l'il mascot, practically on every plastic lunchbox and comic book and other merchandise. Looks like this is happening with PeeBee (Peebee? Pee Bee? Oh who the hell knows...)
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Post by colfoley on Jan 19, 2017 21:28:39 GMT
Liara's one of my favourite characters. Though, I absolutely did not like how she was Mass Effect's l'il mascot, practically on every plastic lunchbox and comic book and other merchandise. Looks like this is happening with PeeBee (Peebee? Pee Bee? Oh who the hell knows...) That is one of my reasons of disdain. I tend to dislike things that are considered very popular when I can't see a lot of reason for it...other then the Shallow. Not saying any one person specifically has drawn my fire, but at least to me a lot of her popularity derives from her being 'the hot blue alien who fawns over Shepard'. That and her character development/ writing was pretty shoddy and inconsistant. And it could have been so much better to. I think the potential was there for Liara to become a really great character with her Shadow Broker leanings but...they really phoned it in at the end. She becomes Shadow Broker...and virtually does nothing with it. Not in terms of character development anyways. It would have made a lot more sense (and me a lot more happier) if she weren't a squad mate in ME 3 but was running her network from where Hackett was.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jan 19, 2017 21:40:28 GMT
You could honestly write essay length pieces on just how Kai Leng completely and utterly fails as a character, and how nearly every time in ME3 he appears, he brings down the overall quality level of whatever scene or mission he is in to such low, cringeworthy levels. Personally, Kai Leng was the worst thing about ME3. Just such a pointless, one note, cliche, child's cartoon villain character. And to think Retribution had me hoping he'd be as good as he was in the book in game. Still, one terrible character isn't going to make me skeptical about Mass Effect: Andromeda. Bear in mind Mac wasn't the lead writer for Andromeda (until Schlerf left lol). I still don't think they're gonna hit that low with an antagonist again though (jinx). I'm not saying it wasn't bad, but I think it helped that despite how supposedly Leng was to be this rival to Shepard, Shepard almost ignores him as such completely. His only reaction when Leng shows up is some faint sign of recognition. I could easily imagine them taking it to 11 where it was like "It's Kai Leng! Everyone, be careful!" but he was implemented as a super cheesy, campy character and for what it's worth I found the cutscenes on the Priority: Citadel mission to be entertaining in its own stupid way just becuase the animation is pretty nice and there was a joy in seeing Shepard trying to handle a Skycar while that moron Leng keeps getting in the way. And gotta be honest when you finally kill Leng, I know the game is trying to make me feel like Shepard when he goes "That was for [insert KIA character(s)] you son of a bitch!", but I did feel satisfied because you finally kill this useless character. Everything about Leng just annoys me so at least killing him to rid the game of that annoyance was good. When it comes to taking it too far to the point where it's a complete detriment to the experience though I found the letter he sends you after Thessia to be one of the most low and childish moments in the trilogy (lucky it's such a little detail then!). But, I mean, seriously, is that the best Mac or whoever wrote that could come up with?
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Post by colfoley on Jan 19, 2017 21:43:55 GMT
You could honestly write essay length pieces on just how Kai Leng completely and utterly fails as a character, and how nearly every time in ME3 he appears, he brings down the overall quality level of whatever scene or mission he is in to such low, cringeworthy levels. Personally, Kai Leng was the worst thing about ME3. Just such a pointless, one note, cliche, child's cartoon villain character. And to think Retribution had me hoping he'd be as good as he was in the book in game. Still, one terrible character isn't going to make me skeptical about Mass Effect: Andromeda. Bear in mind Mac wasn't the lead writer for Andromeda (until Schlerf left lol). I still don't think they're gonna hit that low with an antagonist again though (jinx). I'm not saying it wasn't bad, but I think it helped that despite how supposedly Leng was to be this rival to Shepard, Shepard almost ignores him as such completely. His only reaction when Leng shows up is some faint sign of recognition. I could easily imagine them taking it to 11 where it was like "It's Kai Leng! Everyone, be careful!" but he was implemented as a super cheesy, campy character and for what it's worth I found the cutscenes on the Priority: Citadel mission to be entertaining in its own stupid way just becuase the animation is pretty nice and there was a joy in seeing Shepard trying to handle a Skycar while that moron Leng keeps getting in the way. And gotta be honest when you finally kill Leng, I know the game is trying to make me feel like Shepard when he goes "That was for [insert KIA character(s)] you son of a bitch!", but I did feel satisfied because you finally kill this useless character. Everything about Leng just annoys me so at least killing him to rid the game of that annoyance was good. When it comes to taking it too far to the point where it's a complete detriment to the experience though I found the letter he sends you after Thessia to be one of the most low and childish moments in the trilogy (lucky it's such a little detail then!). But, I mean, seriously, is that the best Mac or whoever wrote that could come up with? Still one thing can be said, I think BioWare has succeeded in their mission objective by creating a character that drew so much hate from the fan base.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jan 19, 2017 21:56:14 GMT
Exactly. It reminded me of how much hate Anders caused in DA2 which was supposed to be because you were so invested in the plot and what he does but instead you're just frustrated at the writing making him be like that when it's pretty forced and one-sided.
But in the end the result is the same, you hate the character and you can't deny a little part of it is becuase they're genuinely annoying in the plot.
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Post by General Mahad on Jan 19, 2017 22:02:38 GMT
I am still trying to figure out the logic of the Tempest and the Nomad having no armaments in a galaxy that's gonna be hostile judging by the history of the Milky Way.
Other than that and the silliness of the Andromeda Initiative trying to find resources in another galaxy instead of fully exploring the Milky Way, I don't see anything to get too concerned about.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jan 19, 2017 22:25:27 GMT
I am still trying to figure out the logic of the Tempest and the Nomad having no armaments in a galaxy that's gonna be hostile judging by the history of the Milky Way. Other than that and the silliness of the Andromeda Initiative trying to find resources in another galaxy instead of fully exploring the Milky Way, I don't see anything to get too concerned about. My take is that despite being the pioneers that we are the Ai is by no means on the same level of importance or top-of-the-line resources as Shepard's mission in either of the three games. Being the pathfinder is important but ultimately not as militaristic as being a spectre on a covert mission to take down a bad guy, so the resources we get are non-hostile becuase our primary job is to explore and not combat enemies. Of course it turns out that way once we realize our mission isn't gonna go that smoothly, but I think the intent is that our job isn't meant to be that of a military leader.
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Post by Arcian on Jan 19, 2017 23:09:51 GMT
Kai Leng in Retribution was a BAMF. The reason he was so hated in ME3 was because his personality didn't in any way reflect the cool, collected and absolutely unflinching badass he was in the novel. Ditto to what you say about Kai Leng in Retribution. Sans cereal thievery. Let's just ignore that. The cereal thievery is from Deception, not Retribution.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 23:23:21 GMT
Ditto to what you say about Kai Leng in Retribution. Sans cereal thievery. Let's just ignore that. The cereal thievery is from Deception, not Retribution. I know, I was referring to Deception and ignoring all that comes with it, including the cereal theft of Kai Leng.
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Post by stealthfox94 on Jan 20, 2017 2:28:23 GMT
I am still trying to figure out the logic of the Tempest and the Nomad having no armaments in a galaxy that's gonna be hostile judging by the history of the Milky Way. Other than that and the silliness of the Andromeda Initiative trying to find resources in another galaxy instead of fully exploring the Milky Way, I don't see anything to get too concerned about. It's a ship for exploring not for war.
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Post by keiji on Jan 20, 2017 2:42:43 GMT
Other than that and the silliness of the Andromeda Initiative trying to find resources in another galaxy instead of fully exploring the Milky Way, I don't see anything to get too concerned about. I think fully explore the Milky Way is already on almost everyone agenda and will be done. So exploring another place make sense.
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Post by darcon on Jan 20, 2017 3:15:25 GMT
I imagine the ship will have other defences we don't know about, shields and such, but I wouldn't be surprised if the ship gets outfitted with some weapons at one point or another could even be in this game but revealing so would ask the question why do you need to outfit weapons on a ship that prioritizes speed and stealth.
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Post by General Mahad on Jan 20, 2017 10:51:49 GMT
I am still trying to figure out the logic of the Tempest and the Nomad having no armaments in a galaxy that's gonna be hostile judging by the history of the Milky Way. Other than that and the silliness of the Andromeda Initiative trying to find resources in another galaxy instead of fully exploring the Milky Way, I don't see anything to get too concerned about. It's a ship for exploring not for war. Having defensive armaments =\= going to war.
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Post by helios969 on Jan 20, 2017 11:02:39 GMT
I think it's hardly noticeable becuase Leng spends most of his time looking edgy and only says very short lines. The reason he felt lame was because he had no presence IMO. He was just lame. Also he cheated. The fight on Thessia where you can't hurt him because of the shield surrounding him was so stupid. In the Saren fight from the original you could always wound Saren, even if he had a shield on and could take a lot of damage. In a sense Kai Leng had to cheat to win the figh on Thessia, which means he didn't actually win. Actually you can beat the crap out of him. Use Lash as your bonus power, upgrade it fully to penetrate through shields, and beat him into submission. Of course, this will actually break the game and cause it to freeze because he's immobilized at the point he's supposed to trigger the cutscene and call in air support. It's kind of hilarious as it's almost like the game get's pissed at you for not following the script.
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Post by General Mahad on Jan 20, 2017 11:04:35 GMT
Other than that and the silliness of the Andromeda Initiative trying to find resources in another galaxy instead of fully exploring the Milky Way, I don't see anything to get too concerned about. I think fully explore the Milky Way is already on almost everyone agenda and will be done. So exploring another place make sense. It doesn't make sense when you factor costs, risks, amount of unexplored worlds, the sheer size of the Milky Way, and the free for all attempts to colonize other worlds. For a fraction of what the AI costs, you can colonize a dozen unexplored planets. I would have though BioWare would have come up with a better reason for the AI's reason to depart the Milky Way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 11:16:38 GMT
I think fully explore the Milky Way is already on almost everyone agenda and will be done. So exploring another place make sense. It doesn't make sense when you factor costs, risks, amount of unexplored worlds, the sheer size of the Milky Way, and the free for all attempts to colonize other worlds. For a fraction of what the AI costs, you can colonize a dozen unexplored planets. I would have though BioWare would have come up with a better reason for the AI's reason to depart the Milky Way. If the rationale for going to Andromeda is at all addressed (it may simply be taken for granted), there might turn out to be a secret reason -- like someone having advance intelligence of the Reapers. Or a secret group that recognized Sovereign for what it was, and started the initiative. Who knows, maybe the AI is the work of Keepers behind the scenes. Perhaps they'd been building the arks for a galaxy evacuation plan, for thousands of years. So, yeah. Don't disturb the Keepers.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 20, 2017 11:24:07 GMT
Even though it make less than zero sense, I wouldn't be surprised if purpose of the Ai is just to settle another galaxy.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 11:27:06 GMT
Even though it make less than zero sense, I wouldn't be surprised if purpose of the Ai is just to settle another galaxy. It could turn out to be a money laundering or tax evasion scheme, and still make more sense than that.
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Post by pdusen on Jan 20, 2017 12:27:25 GMT
I think fully explore the Milky Way is already on almost everyone agenda and will be done. So exploring another place make sense. It doesn't make sense when you factor costs, risks, amount of unexplored worlds, the sheer size of the Milky Way, and the free for all attempts to colonize other worlds. For a fraction of what the AI costs, you can colonize a dozen unexplored planets. I would have though BioWare would have come up with a better reason for the AI's reason to depart the Milky Way. Since this is the Andromeda Initiative, I imagine its backers had the very specific goal of "Colonize Andromeda" in mind. You can't do that by colonizing a dozen random Milky Way planets. You guys keep acting as though the only reason to do something is there being some overwhelming need to do it. People with a lot of money on their hands get crazy ideas and run with them all the time; you can see it in any company large enough to have an executive board. The idea, in the Mass Effect setting, of a few rich people getting together and saying, "Hey, let's use our monies and go colonize Andromeda. It will be historical and stuff." is completely plausible.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 12:39:52 GMT
Even though it make less than zero sense, I wouldn't be surprised if purpose of the Ai is just to settle another galaxy. It could turn out to be a money laundering or tax evasion scheme, and still make more sense than that. Confirmed - Jien Garson heads a huge Red Sand cartel... not only are they swimming in funds, they were totally all high when they planned the AI.
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