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Post by cloud9 on Feb 1, 2017 21:06:32 GMT
Are you saying it's impossible for people to have valid concerns? After the whole ME3 ending tragedy? When the premise of the new game is obviously nothing more than an absurd excuse to release a new Mass Effect title? They had to move the franchise to a whole other galaxy FFS! When all they seem to be doing is making things as much like ME1 as possible, resulting in designs that seem all too familiar, generic and unimaginative? People care because they love Mass Effect, and they're genuinely concerned it's going to be a disappointment. BECAUSE they care. Yeah, there's a couple of haters out there, but you can't just throw all the people with genuine concerns together under one blanket statement of 'haters gunna hate LOL'. It's incredibly immature.Biodrones at it's finest.
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Post by Lunatic on Feb 1, 2017 21:07:29 GMT
Yeah, it's not like the previous civilizations the reapers have reaped fought back or anything. I filed that under the ''wtf were they thinking?''- category after facepalming. Well that one's not too hard. It only seems nonsensical at face value. It's actually foreshadowing for the ending. There's only one ending where Shepard lives, it's the one where (s)he draws the gun and fights. In the other two endings, Shepard throws away the gun (symbolism!) and commits suicide. There's actually a lot of lines like this in the game, tons of foreshadowing. That's certainly one way to look at it, but in my oppinion you're reading too much into it and giving the writers too much credit. There's lots of cheesy lines like this in ME3.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 1, 2017 21:11:34 GMT
The issue is that game writing, and even Mass Effect is guilty of this, is trying to borrow from the movie series and the block buster in terms of writing. These huge epic interconnected stories. Video Game writing, especially in the chaotic nature of the games industry, should borrow from tv writing. You have games as seasons, quests as episodes. Some 'episodes' have to deal with the main plot until at the end of the game/ season you get all the major plot points wrapped up in a nice little bow. But you leave ust enough of a loop hanging where you can continue the narrative into the next game. It's up to interpretation. Personal one that is. I've always seen the ME series as mostly character driven. Hell, the reason most people are/were upset about the endings is because the choices we made, that affected the characters we interacted with throughout the entire trilogy were rendered useless because of "God logic" (the catalyst). Any future instalment for me has to be character driven and not having glaring holes in the plot that takes away from the experience. I agree, one of the problems with the endings, aside from all the other problems with the endings, were that BioWare tried to force us to make one more choice because their games are known for choices, and character. But the ending of the game should not be about one giant choice being given to you at the eleventh hour, but a culimation of all your choices. Hell this is one of the (many) things DA I did right. You did not have a single major choice in the ending quest but a few of the choices you made throughout the game effected the ending. Much better example, the Suicide Mission.
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Feb 1, 2017 21:53:16 GMT
Well that one's not too hard. It only seems nonsensical at face value. It's actually foreshadowing for the ending. There's only one ending where Shepard lives, it's the one where (s)he draws the gun and fights. In the other two endings, Shepard throws away the gun (symbolism!) and commits suicide. There's actually a lot of lines like this in the game, tons of foreshadowing. That's certainly one way to look at it, but in my oppinion you're reading too much into it and giving the writers too much credit. There's lots of cheesy lines like this in ME3. If this were an isolated case, I'd be inclined to agree with that assessment. However, I participated in a community project where we went through all the ME3 dialogue, and there's actually a ton of stuff like this. There's an actual pattern, even. The game is full of dialogue that supports the destroy option, be it directly or between the lines. It's actually really hard to find lines that support the control and synthesis options. Quite the opposite actually. A lot of dialogue criticizes those options or things associated with them. Most of the time it's done in a subtle, indirect way. They're basically hidden messages. There's a lot of things wrong with ME3, but in all honesty I have to say that in some respects the writers aren't actually given enough credit. There's a lot more going on in that game than you'd think when taking all at face value. We've tried finding these things in the first two games as well, but not with a lot of success. It's particularly ME3 that is loaded with foreshadowing and tongue in cheek references, which reinforces the idea that there's probably really something going on, instead of just our confirmation bias. Though admittedly, in some cases this could still be a factor - but at the same time there's just too freaking much of these hidden gems to ignore. It can't all be coincidence. I'm sure you could play the game 30 times and never notice it, but if you start playing it with your "special glasses on", you'll notice a zillion ending references, and they all have something in common: they support only the destroy option. Actually this is one of those things about ME3 that gave rise to Indoctrination Theory.
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Post by Lunatic on Feb 1, 2017 23:46:54 GMT
That's certainly one way to look at it, but in my oppinion you're reading too much into it and giving the writers too much credit. There's lots of cheesy lines like this in ME3. If this were an isolated case, I'd be inclined to agree with that assessment. However, I participated in a community project where we went through all the ME3 dialogue, and there's actually a ton of stuff like this. There's an actual pattern, even. The game is full of dialogue that supports the destroy option, be it directly or between the lines. It's actually really hard to find lines that support the control and synthesis options. Quite the opposite actually. A lot of dialogue criticizes those options or things associated with them. Most of the time it's done in a subtle, indirect way. They're basically hidden messages. There's a lot of things wrong with ME3, but in all honesty I have to say that in some respects the writers aren't actually given enough credit. There's a lot more going on in that game than you'd think when taking all at face value. We've tried finding these things in the first two games as well, but not with a lot of success. It's particularly ME3 that is loaded with foreshadowing and tongue in cheek references, which reinforces the idea that there's probably really something going on, instead of just our confirmation bias. Though admittedly, in some cases this could still be a factor - but at the same time there's just too freaking much of these hidden gems to ignore. It can't all be coincidence. I'm sure you could play the game 30 times and never notice it, but if you start playing it with your "special glasses on", you'll notice a zillion ending references, and they all have something in common: they support only the destroy option. Actually this is one of those things about ME3 that gave rise to Indoctrination Theory. Interesting. What sort of project was this? Do you have all this research written down somewhere? I always wanted the IT to be true.
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Post by Transcendent on Feb 2, 2017 0:05:57 GMT
If this were an isolated case, I'd be inclined to agree with that assessment. However, I participated in a community project where we went through all the ME3 dialogue, and there's actually a ton of stuff like this. There's an actual pattern, even. The game is full of dialogue that supports the destroy option, be it directly or between the lines. It's actually really hard to find lines that support the control and synthesis options. Quite the opposite actually. A lot of dialogue criticizes those options or things associated with them. Most of the time it's done in a subtle, indirect way. They're basically hidden messages. There's a lot of things wrong with ME3, but in all honesty I have to say that in some respects the writers aren't actually given enough credit. There's a lot more going on in that game than you'd think when taking all at face value. We've tried finding these things in the first two games as well, but not with a lot of success. It's particularly ME3 that is loaded with foreshadowing and tongue in cheek references, which reinforces the idea that there's probably really something going on, instead of just our confirmation bias. Though admittedly, in some cases this could still be a factor - but at the same time there's just too freaking much of these hidden gems to ignore. It can't all be coincidence. I'm sure you could play the game 30 times and never notice it, but if you start playing it with your "special glasses on", you'll notice a zillion ending references, and they all have something in common: they support only the destroy option. Actually this is one of those things about ME3 that gave rise to Indoctrination Theory. Interesting. What sort of project was this? Do you have all this research written down somewhere? I always wanted the IT to be true. If I could just butt in here; while I don't think there was any foreshadowing of the endings in the first two games (I still think Drew wanted the whole Dark Energy thing), the first two games represent just how much the game's narratives opposed the other two options. Saren represented synthesis, he was an enemy, he died. TIM wanted to learn and control Reaper power. He died. The only thing consistently maintained in the entire series is literally fighting the reapers, and the only way to effectively end them is to eliminate them from existence. Cue destroy.
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Post by amleth on Feb 2, 2017 0:27:35 GMT
I'm not actually sure what the point is here could you please clarify? In other news, I miss DAO (my personal bioware fav) and PILLARS OF ETERNITY 2! WOOOOOOOOO. Also POE whilst hard to get into (obtuse systems) has fantastic writing. Bioware could learn a thing or two about writing with some form of subtlety/poetry. I was replaying ME3 recently and Shepherd sounded like a godawful meathead. "What's our strategy?", "WE FIGHT OR WE DIE RAWR". Really? The point is not about holding a special place for sjw because of social justice, TW3 has a lot of those same themes. People hold bioware to a high standard even with okish games because they give what no one else can, character customization, control over ones sexuality and moral choices in a epic sci-fi AAA game. Of course that can change when Cyberpunk comes out but I am not holding my breath. You do realise that what you just said can be attributed to most modern rpgs right? Aside from the mandatory focus on romance I guess. Not that bioware does that very well either. Cassandra and Josephine's romances were cringey, like mandatory afterthoughts for the none tumblr crowd.
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Post by Lunatic on Feb 2, 2017 0:41:05 GMT
Interesting. What sort of project was this? Do you have all this research written down somewhere? I always wanted the IT to be true. If I could just butt in here; while I don't think there was any foreshadowing of the endings in the first two games (I still think Drew wanted the whole Dark Energy thing), the first two games represent just how much the game's narratives opposed the other two options. Saren represented synthesis, he was an enemy, he died. TIM wanted to learn and control Reaper power. He died. The only thing consistently maintained in the entire series is literally fighting the reapers, and the only way to effectively end them is to eliminate them from existence. Cue destroy. Yes, I caught that too. I always found both the "blue" and "green" endings highly disturbing and always preferred destroy, even though EDI and the geth become collateral damage. Price of victory, I guess.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Feb 2, 2017 0:53:03 GMT
The point is not about holding a special place for sjw because of social justice, TW3 has a lot of those same themes. People hold bioware to a high standard even with okish games because they give what no one else can, character customization, control over ones sexuality and moral choices in a epic sci-fi AAA game. Of course that can change when Cyberpunk comes out but I am not holding my breath. You do realise that what you just said can be attributed to most modern rpgs right? Aside from the mandatory focus on romance I guess. Not that bioware does that very well either. Cassandra and Josephine's romances were cringey, like mandatory afterthoughts for the none tumblr crowd. What high budget RPG are you talking about?
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Post by Transcendent on Feb 2, 2017 1:05:09 GMT
If I could just butt in here; while I don't think there was any foreshadowing of the endings in the first two games (I still think Drew wanted the whole Dark Energy thing), the first two games represent just how much the game's narratives opposed the other two options. Saren represented synthesis, he was an enemy, he died. TIM wanted to learn and control Reaper power. He died. The only thing consistently maintained in the entire series is literally fighting the reapers, and the only way to effectively end them is to eliminate them from existence. Cue destroy. Yes, I caught that too. I always found both the "blue" and "green" endings highly disturbing and always preferred destroy, even though EDI and the geth become collateral damage. Price of victory, I guess. There's also no literal proof that it will kill the Geth and EDI as well. We just are supposed to believe what the catalyst said as truth. It also completely goes against what the rest of the MW wants. If given the option, EVERYONE chooses Destroy (as in, all the other races).
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Post by Lunatic on Feb 2, 2017 1:14:08 GMT
Yes, I caught that too. I always found both the "blue" and "green" endings highly disturbing and always preferred destroy, even though EDI and the geth become collateral damage. Price of victory, I guess. There's also no literal proof that it will kill the Geth and EDI as well. We just are supposed to believe what the catalyst said as truth. It also completely goes against what the rest of the MW wants. If given the option, EVERYONE chooses Destroy (as in, all the other races). I don't know, the fact that EDI isn't present at the Normandy memorial in destroy, when she is in synthesis and control, is evidence enough for me. And if EDI is gone it's very likely the geth are too. I'm sure most members of the other races would want the reapers destroyed, but I could imagine a few asari at least voting for synthesis, since they've always preached about community and close relations with other species.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 2, 2017 1:22:21 GMT
The point is not about holding a special place for sjw because of social justice, TW3 has a lot of those same themes. People hold bioware to a high standard even with okish games because they give what no one else can, character customization, control over ones sexuality and moral choices in a epic sci-fi AAA game. Of course that can change when Cyberpunk comes out but I am not holding my breath. You do realise that what you just said can be attributed to most modern rpgs right? Aside from the mandatory focus on romance I guess. Not that bioware does that very well either. Cassandra and Josephine's romances were cringey, like mandatory afterthoughts for the none tumblr crowd. Josephine is my favorite Bioware romance so far. Many people loved hers' and Cassandra's romances, including those in the 'none Tumblr crowd' you are referring to.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 2, 2017 1:23:18 GMT
You do realise that what you just said can be attributed to most modern rpgs right? Aside from the mandatory focus on romance I guess. Not that bioware does that very well either. Cassandra and Josephine's romances were cringey, like mandatory afterthoughts for the none tumblr crowd. Josephine is my favorite Bioware romance so far. Many people loved hers' and Cassandra's romances, including those in the 'none Tumblr crowd' you are referring to. Cassandra is my cyber Waifu.
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Post by Plague Doctor on Feb 2, 2017 1:35:23 GMT
If I could just butt in here; while I don't think there was any foreshadowing of the endings in the first two games (I still think Drew wanted the whole Dark Energy thing), the first two games represent just how much the game's narratives opposed the other two options. Saren represented synthesis, he was an enemy, he died. TIM wanted to learn and control Reaper power. He died. The only thing consistently maintained in the entire series is literally fighting the reapers, and the only way to effectively end them is to eliminate them from existence. Cue destroy. Yes, I caught that too. I always found both the "blue" and "green" endings highly disturbing and always preferred destroy, even though EDI and the geth become collateral damage. Price of victory, I guess. Im always surprised by how many people think this. To this day i have never chosen Destroy as i see it as the one truly evil option. Different strokes i guess.
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“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Feb 2, 2017 2:36:23 GMT
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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 2, 2017 2:36:52 GMT
I just can't see myself picking anything else but destroy. Control was TIMs option and Synth was Saren's. So Ill never pick that. Besides if the Starkid is the reaper god, why the hell did he need Shepard to make DNA blender burgers out of everything anyways....
Nope, Nuke them all, its the only way to be sure. We can reboot the friendlies later.
But luckily PC mods allow for a much different option. Still wish Bioware would have deleted the Starkid from the ECut.
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Post by pdusen on Feb 2, 2017 2:55:04 GMT
Before anyone gets excited, that article is just him complaining about the ending to ME3. Nothing Andromeda-related whatsoever.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Feb 2, 2017 3:10:12 GMT
Before anyone gets excited, that article is just him complaining about the ending to ME3. Nothing Andromeda-related whatsoever. It was supposed to be bait journalism, damn you for running it.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 2, 2017 3:15:32 GMT
Before anyone gets excited, that article is just him complaining about the ending to ME3. Nothing Andromeda-related whatsoever. It was supposed to be bait journalist, damn you for running it. Click bait level = fail.
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Post by Transcendent on Feb 2, 2017 4:58:19 GMT
There's also no literal proof that it will kill the Geth and EDI as well. We just are supposed to believe what the catalyst said as truth. It also completely goes against what the rest of the MW wants. If given the option, EVERYONE chooses Destroy (as in, all the other races). I don't know, the fact that EDI isn't present at the Normandy memorial in destroy, when she is in synthesis and control, is evidence enough for me. And if EDI is gone it's very likely the geth are too. I'm sure most members of the other races would want the reapers destroyed, but I could imagine a few asari at least voting for synthesis, since they've always preached about community and close relations with other species. Highly debatable. With how contrived the Catalyst's speaks of everything, I lean towards him only saying that because it might sway the person playing. He talks in too many absolutes and none of which are actually found in documented proof within the game (his own premise for the cycles was already proved wrong by the Quarian and Geth). My point is, yeah, obviously they're present in the blue and green endings; the point is it's not destroying anything at all. The Reapers are alive in those two. You can't say with full certainty that EDI and the Geth become collateral damage just because of his words. He contradicts himself multiple times. Also, I seriously doubt even the Asari would go for Synthesis. Not after what the Reapers did to Thessia.
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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 2, 2017 5:03:43 GMT
Before anyone gets excited, that article is just him complaining about the ending to ME3. Nothing Andromeda-related whatsoever. Well based on what I saw in this evenings premiere for S2 of the Expanse and the fact that I am about to start Nemesis Games....Mac and Cheese should have taken notes from that duo instead. So goood....sooooooooooo very goooood. The expanse is def. up there for me, right next to BSG reboot and Babylon 5. I'm hoping ME:A will make me a fan again. We shall see. "When we hit book nine of The Expanse, that will be the last book—and we've known the ending from the beginning. That's because I like endings," he continued. "I think great media, great art, whatever, is all about the edges of the canvas, and anything that you try to string on too long gets a little threadbare. I also think that because of that—because endings are so important—you better know what your ending is and you better be setting that ending up right from the beginning. Otherwise it just feels muddy and unsatisfying."Awww yyyeah. Hope you guys do a good job. At least you have the story planned out ala Babylon 5.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 2, 2017 7:28:12 GMT
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 2, 2017 8:45:11 GMT
What do you want people to look at, in particular? We do know there's criticism about the game. There's criticism here as well. What I can say by reading quickly that page is that the comments aren't the illogical mess I saw in other forums, although I'm not going to read the whole thread.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 2, 2017 9:46:49 GMT
What do you want people to look at, in particular? We do know there's criticism about the game. There's criticism here as well. What I can say by reading quickly that page is that the comments aren't the illogical mess I saw in other forums, although I'm not going to read the whole thread. Just the page not the entire thread and they made some valid points about the game.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 2, 2017 10:00:39 GMT
What do you want people to look at, in particular? We do know there's criticism about the game. There's criticism here as well. What I can say by reading quickly that page is that the comments aren't the illogical mess I saw in other forums, although I'm not going to read the whole thread. Just the page not the entire thread and they made some valid points about the game. Yes, but those are points made here already. Again, it's fair criticism, but it's nothing we haven't seen here.
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