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Post by Lunatic on Feb 2, 2017 12:43:26 GMT
I don't know, the fact that EDI isn't present at the Normandy memorial in destroy, when she is in synthesis and control, is evidence enough for me. And if EDI is gone it's very likely the geth are too. I'm sure most members of the other races would want the reapers destroyed, but I could imagine a few asari at least voting for synthesis, since they've always preached about community and close relations with other species. Highly debatable. With how contrived the Catalyst's speaks of everything, I lean towards him only saying that because it might sway the person playing. He talks in too many absolutes and none of which are actually found in documented proof within the game (his own premise for the cycles was already proved wrong by the Quarian and Geth). My point is, yeah, obviously they're present in the blue and green endings; the point is it's not destroying anything at all. The Reapers are alive in those two. You can't say with full certainty that EDI and the Geth become collateral damage just because of his words. He contradicts himself multiple times. Also, I seriously doubt even the Asari would go for Synthesis. Not after what the Reapers did to Thessia. Yes, I agree his dialogue is a mess and everything he says shouldn't be taken at face value, but like I said I'm basing my beliefs on the fact that EDI is missing only when picking destroy. Seems to me that the devs left her out for a reason and the reason being that she's dead. Though, I guess it's possible that she's just visiting the bathroom or something. If the asari had a vote I'm sure the majority would say go for destroy. But saying every member of the asari race would vote that way, is a generalization. There are always people out there with a different oppinion. EDIT: By the way, are we going to get this thread in trouble by debating ME3- related stuff?
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Post by themikefest on Feb 2, 2017 13:02:52 GMT
Yes, I agree his dialogue is a mess and everything he says shouldn't be taken at face value, but like I said I'm basing my beliefs on the fact that EDI is missing only when picking destroy. Seems to me that the devs left her out for a reason and the reason being that she's dead. Though, I guess it's possible that she's just visiting the bathroom or something. Depending on the playthrough, the edibot isn't present for the memorial scene in control if ems is low enough and taken on the beam run
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Post by SofNascimento on Feb 2, 2017 13:09:19 GMT
I didn't mind ME3's ending that much myself. I mean, if they changed a few gaps in logic but kept the essense of it intact (relays destroyed, galaxy dark age and you with no idea what is to come) I'd say it was more than ok.
I do mind however how it tainted the franchise. There is always this "but" when talking about it, a "*" that is always there, a need to say how the trilogy is still great even with the endings.
And that's why I believe EA should really consider doing a remaster of the trilogy with an entire reworked Priorty Earth mission, an improved final assault that sees many of the choices you made coming into play, a Suicide Mission 2.0 of sorts (it 100% should have been like that) and a better fitting ending.
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 2, 2017 13:11:49 GMT
Yes, I agree his dialogue is a mess and everything he says shouldn't be taken at face value, but like I said I'm basing my beliefs on the fact that EDI is missing only when picking destroy. Seems to me that the devs left her out for a reason and the reason being that she's dead. Though, I guess it's possible that she's just visiting the bathroom or something. I would definitely go with the bathroom theory on EDI. Adjusting her bra or checking the hair. It's not like she has another important appointment, like the Shep memorial ceremony or something.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 2, 2017 13:14:29 GMT
And that's why I believe EA should really consider doing a remaster of the trilogy with an entire reworked Priorty Earth mission, an improved final assault that sees many of the choices you made coming into play, a Suicide Mission 2.0 of sorts (it 100% should have been like that) and a better fitting ending. I would that all the stuff that was cut from the game, that was to have been in the game, be put back in.
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Post by Lunatic on Feb 2, 2017 13:28:07 GMT
And that's why I believe EA should really consider doing a remaster of the trilogy with an entire reworked Priorty Earth mission, an improved final assault that sees many of the choices you made coming into play, a Suicide Mission 2.0 of sorts (it 100% should have been like that) and a better fitting ending. This would be glorious, but I'm fairly sure a reworked Priority Earth and ending is never going to happen if they make a HD remaster. More of a chance for the former, but the latter? Two words: artistic integrity. Oh yeah, and there's also "you just didn't get it".
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Post by Transcendent on Feb 2, 2017 15:12:12 GMT
Highly debatable. With how contrived the Catalyst's speaks of everything, I lean towards him only saying that because it might sway the person playing. He talks in too many absolutes and none of which are actually found in documented proof within the game (his own premise for the cycles was already proved wrong by the Quarian and Geth). My point is, yeah, obviously they're present in the blue and green endings; the point is it's not destroying anything at all. The Reapers are alive in those two. You can't say with full certainty that EDI and the Geth become collateral damage just because of his words. He contradicts himself multiple times. Also, I seriously doubt even the Asari would go for Synthesis. Not after what the Reapers did to Thessia. Yes, I agree his dialogue is a mess and everything he says shouldn't be taken at face value, but like I said I'm basing my beliefs on the fact that EDI is missing only when picking destroy. Seems to me that the devs left her out for a reason and the reason being that she's dead. Though, I guess it's possible that she's just visiting the bathroom or something. If the asari had a vote I'm sure the majority would say go for destroy. But saying every member of the asari race would vote that way, is a generalization. There are always people out there with a different oppinion. EDIT: By the way, are we going to get this thread in trouble by debating ME3- related stuff? As someone said, if you don't have high enough EMS, EDI isn't there during the memorial scene during CONTROL. So not really an argument. I agree, but that goes for essentially every race. Majority of each race would choose destroy. TIM was for control clearly, and Saren would have ben for Synthesis. Different opinions exist, but there's a reason the majority always wins out. And no, I don't think we will. ME3 criticism is the main reason for a thread about being skeptical about a new ME game.
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Post by Lunatic on Feb 2, 2017 15:24:29 GMT
Yes, I agree his dialogue is a mess and everything he says shouldn't be taken at face value, but like I said I'm basing my beliefs on the fact that EDI is missing only when picking destroy. Seems to me that the devs left her out for a reason and the reason being that she's dead. Though, I guess it's possible that she's just visiting the bathroom or something. If the asari had a vote I'm sure the majority would say go for destroy. But saying every member of the asari race would vote that way, is a generalization. There are always people out there with a different oppinion. EDIT: By the way, are we going to get this thread in trouble by debating ME3- related stuff? As someone said, if you don't have high enough EMS, EDI isn't there during the memorial scene during CONTROL. So not really an argument. Oh I beg to differ. One could argue that the reason for that is you didn't prepare enough, your forces weren't big enough, morale was lower etc. and thus that indirectly caused EDI to get torn to pieces by that husk, marauder, brute or whatever. Or maybe you didn't get enough resources for the prothean device and something was overlooked in its construction, some bolt wasn't tight enough or something, and that caused a malfunction which destroyed EDI when Shepard assumed direct control of the reapers.
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Post by Transcendent on Feb 2, 2017 15:25:47 GMT
As someone said, if you don't have high enough EMS, EDI isn't there during the memorial scene during CONTROL. So not really an argument. Oh I beg to differ. One could argue that the reason for that is you didn't prepare enough, your forces weren't big enough, morale was lower etc. and thus that indirectly caused EDI to get torn to pieces by that husk, marauder, brute or whatever. Or maybe you didn't get enough resources for the prothean device and something was overlooked in its construction, some bolt wasn't tight enough or something, and that caused a malfunction which destroyed EDI when Shepard assumed direct control of the reapers. Then you would be speculating. We would have likely seen her dying by one of the Reaper forces. That's too significant to leave out. And the main draw to using Control/Synthesis is apparently so the Synthetics don't die as well. Clearly not the case.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 15:30:36 GMT
Before anyone gets excited, that article is just him complaining about the ending to ME3. Nothing Andromeda-related whatsoever. The expanse is def. up there for me, right next to BSG reboot and Babylon 5. I'm hoping ME:A will make me a fan again. We shall see. (snip) Awww yyyeah. Hope you guys do a good job. At least you have the story planned out ala Babylon 5. Indeed. A Beginning, a Middle and an end!! (not three different flavors)
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Post by themikefest on Feb 2, 2017 15:36:12 GMT
Oh I beg to differ. One could argue that the reason for that is you didn't prepare enough, your forces weren't big enough, morale was lower etc. and thus that indirectly caused EDI to get torn to pieces by that husk, marauder, brute or whatever. Or maybe you didn't get enough resources for the prothean device and something was overlooked in its construction, some bolt wasn't tight enough or something, and that caused a malfunction which destroyed EDI when Shepard assumed direct control of the reapers. The platform is destroyed by Harbinger during the beam run. If control is chosen, its name will not be on the wall and won't be seen standing with the others. If it wasn't taken on the beam run, it will be seen standing with the others during the memorial scene
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Post by Lunatic on Feb 2, 2017 15:42:58 GMT
Oh I beg to differ. One could argue that the reason for that is you didn't prepare enough, your forces weren't big enough, morale was lower etc. and thus that indirectly caused EDI to get torn to pieces by that husk, marauder, brute or whatever. Or maybe you didn't get enough resources for the prothean device and something was overlooked in its construction, some bolt wasn't tight enough or something, and that caused a malfunction which destroyed EDI when Shepard assumed direct control of the reapers. The platform is destroyed by Harbinger during the beam run. If control is chosen, its name will not be on the wall and won't be seen standing with the others. If it wasn't taken on the beam run, it will be seen standing with the others during the memorial scene Thanks for the clarification. This does support her platform at least being destroyed in the red ending and I also remembered that her name is definately on the memorial too in said ending.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 2, 2017 15:52:04 GMT
It's like he was reading my mind!
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Post by degs29 on Feb 2, 2017 16:25:16 GMT
Those are QA things. By polishing, I mean smoothing out animations, filling in sound effects, adding dialogue where it makes sense, improving textures, etc. Also, QA is not a fool-proof safety net. They could spend 2 years quality testing the game and still not catch everything. Regardless, I don't think I experienced a single bug when playing ANY of the Mass Effect games, console or PC. Which is a rarity. Ooh, like Shepard's conversation with Kasumi cutting out during her mission on the Citadel? Or Ash's Marksman bug? I don't know what those are, but the first sounds like a QA slip up. They obviously inserted the sound file, but something went wrong, perhaps in a late pre-release build update. QA should have caught it. I just looked up that second bug to see what it was, and it looks like it was introduced in a post-release patch, so I don't see how that's relevant to the conversation.
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Post by degs29 on Feb 2, 2017 16:34:37 GMT
Those are QA things. By polishing, I mean smoothing out animations, filling in sound effects, adding dialogue where it makes sense, improving textures, etc. Also, QA is not a fool-proof safety net. They could spend 2 years quality testing the game and still not catch everything. Regardless, I don't think I experienced a single bug when playing ANY of the Mass Effect games, console or PC. Which is a rarity. Actually, QA usually catches almost everything during even shorter polishing phases, but only a part of their findings is usually prioritized high enough to be fixed for release. When buggy games are released, the reason is way more often that the devs / publisher decided to not fix all of them instead of QA being as blind as a bunch of moles. When you find a bug in a game, chances are that someone in QA found it before you and reported it, and someone else said "nah, not important enough". That's not my understanding of QA in video games at all. Many bugs have exact requirements for occurring, that would take millions of replications with small changes to discover, which is why they're often discovered when shipped out to millions of players. It's also what makes QA for PC games so difficult because of the wide variety of hardware setups. I would agree that QA tends to catch most of the big, wide-spread bugs. However, even during the QA stage they are constantly updating the build, which may introduce new bugs. Or a fix for a bug can introduce a new conflict that goes undetected. I don't think that makes QA blind as a bunch of moles. It's just a reality of video games. I'm sure there are cases where the developer and publisher are aware of some bugs, but decide to ship anyway. This could be for economic reasons, practical reasons (they couldn't find a way to fix the bug without causing greater problems or massive rework), etc.
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 2, 2017 16:50:51 GMT
That's not my understanding of QA in video games at all. Many bugs have exact requirements for occurring, that would take millions of replications with small changes to discover, which is why they're often discovered when shipped out to millions of players. It's also what makes QA for PC games so difficult because of the wide variety of hardware setups. I would agree that QA tends to catch most of the big, wide-spread bugs. However, even during the QA stage they are constantly updating the build, which may introduce new bugs. Or a fix for a bug can introduce a new conflict that goes undetected. I don't think that makes QA blind as a bunch of moles. It's just a reality of video games. I'm sure there are cases where the developer and publisher are aware of some bugs, but decide to ship anyway. This could be for economic reasons, practical reasons (they couldn't find a way to fix the bug without causing greater problems or massive rework), etc. Well, it may be different from studio to studio and publisher to publisher, but that is something I was told by someone working at UbiSoft's QA on several Assassin's Creed games and Watchdogs. QA find lots and lots of bugs, but not all are high enough of a priority to be fixed. BioWare is among those that tend to ignore bugs that aren't much of a show stopper - if it's something minor like gaining an agent for the Inquisition that then doesn't show up in your roster (like the mercenary guy during WEWH), they usually don't bother. A bug that requires millions of replications and small changes to discover is usually not the problem anyway - real problems are bugs that occur often enough to sour the game experience. And if a developer is serious about delivering a good gaming experience, it can be done in several ways. With lots of QA - Witcher 3 was content complete and in testing for about half a year before release - or by providing the user with the option to generate error reports. Several games do that - they create an event log and upon crash send it to the developer.
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Post by Lunatic on Feb 2, 2017 16:58:42 GMT
Well, it may be different from studio to studio and publisher to publisher, but that is something I was told by someone working at UbiSoft's QA on several Assassin's Creed games and Watchdogs. QA find lots and lots of bugs, but not all are high enough of a priority to be fixed. I didn't know this, but honestly I'm not surprised. Why bother after all, when you can just push the game out, get the monies, and then see about fixing bugs if you feel like it.
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Post by degs29 on Feb 2, 2017 17:00:11 GMT
That's not my understanding of QA in video games at all. Many bugs have exact requirements for occurring, that would take millions of replications with small changes to discover, which is why they're often discovered when shipped out to millions of players. It's also what makes QA for PC games so difficult because of the wide variety of hardware setups. I would agree that QA tends to catch most of the big, wide-spread bugs. However, even during the QA stage they are constantly updating the build, which may introduce new bugs. Or a fix for a bug can introduce a new conflict that goes undetected. I don't think that makes QA blind as a bunch of moles. It's just a reality of video games. I'm sure there are cases where the developer and publisher are aware of some bugs, but decide to ship anyway. This could be for economic reasons, practical reasons (they couldn't find a way to fix the bug without causing greater problems or massive rework), etc. BioWare is among those that tend to ignore bugs that aren't much of a show stopper - if it's something minor like gaining an agent for the Inquisition that then doesn't show up in your roster (like the mercenary guy during WEWH), they usually don't bother. Oh, that is not an error they should ignore! Ubisoft games are notoriously buggy, but I get your point.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 2, 2017 17:26:06 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
On the topic of Sarah's facial animation kerfuffle, Hot Not Meh came out with an interesting take on this very issue. He has a potty mouth, so beware.
In this video, he brings up a few points that make sense and absolves the developer.
His bottom line is that if a dev shows a "flawless gameplay" months before game launch, start to worry.... he gives examples. On the other hand, if you see flaws, then be glad because it's actual game play. View it all to understand.
Link:
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Feb 3, 2017 0:19:21 GMT
If this were an isolated case, I'd be inclined to agree with that assessment. However, I participated in a community project where we went through all the ME3 dialogue, and there's actually a ton of stuff like this. There's an actual pattern, even. The game is full of dialogue that supports the destroy option, be it directly or between the lines. It's actually really hard to find lines that support the control and synthesis options. Quite the opposite actually. A lot of dialogue criticizes those options or things associated with them. Most of the time it's done in a subtle, indirect way. They're basically hidden messages. There's a lot of things wrong with ME3, but in all honesty I have to say that in some respects the writers aren't actually given enough credit. There's a lot more going on in that game than you'd think when taking all at face value. We've tried finding these things in the first two games as well, but not with a lot of success. It's particularly ME3 that is loaded with foreshadowing and tongue in cheek references, which reinforces the idea that there's probably really something going on, instead of just our confirmation bias. Though admittedly, in some cases this could still be a factor - but at the same time there's just too freaking much of these hidden gems to ignore. It can't all be coincidence. I'm sure you could play the game 30 times and never notice it, but if you start playing it with your "special glasses on", you'll notice a zillion ending references, and they all have something in common: they support only the destroy option. Actually this is one of those things about ME3 that gave rise to Indoctrination Theory. Interesting. What sort of project was this? Do you have all this research written down somewhere? I always wanted the IT to be true. We did this with a number of guys in the original IT thread on the old BSN. I still have it around. It's in need of revision and recompiling though, there's a lot of unnecessary clutter. We kind of threw everything on a big pile. Some of it could be considered questionable, but that still leaves a lot of interesting stuff. The support for the destroy ending is rock solid though. I'll sort it out when I have some time. Shouldn't be too much work.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2017 0:41:19 GMT
Do not concern yourselves about the lack of logic or plot holes, do not fret, do not worry. Our characters can be saved.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 3, 2017 0:45:43 GMT
I didn't mind ME3's ending that much myself. I mean, if they changed a few gaps in logic but kept the essense of it intact (relays destroyed, galaxy dark age and you with no idea what is to come) I'd say it was more than ok. I do mind however how it tainted the franchise. There is always this "but" when talking about it, a "*" that is always there, a need to say how the trilogy is still great even with the endings. And that's why I believe EA should really consider doing a remaster of the trilogy with an entire reworked Priorty Earth mission, an improved final assault that sees many of the choices you made coming into play, a Suicide Mission 2.0 of sorts (it 100% should have been like that) and a better fitting ending. For those of you worried about lack of logic or plot holes, do not fret, do not worry. Our characters can be saved. Well you won the internet today
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2017 0:46:54 GMT
For those of you worried about lack of logic or plot holes, do not fret, do not worry. Our characters can be saved. Well you won the internet today
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Post by bekkael on Feb 3, 2017 1:02:31 GMT
Interesting. What sort of project was this? Do you have all this research written down somewhere? I always wanted the IT to be true. We did this with a number of guys in the original IT thread on the old BSN. I still have it around. It's in need of revision and recompiling though, there's a lot of unnecessary clutter. We kind of threw everything on a big pile. Some of it could be considered questionable, but that still leaves a lot of interesting stuff. The support for the destroy ending is rock solid though. I'll sort it out when I have some time. Shouldn't be too much work. The destroy ending was the only one that made a lick of sense. IMO, to do other than destroy the reapers was to completely negate and spit on everything Shepard learned and accomplished up to that point. Boiled down, the Reapers were the result of computer error. Starbrat needed proper defragging. I was always sad the IT turned out not to be true. It would have been better than what we ended up with, but que sera, sera. My hope is that MEA is not just DAI in space. That really is my biggest fear, since I so disliked DAI.
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Lunatic
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 27 Likes: 19
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Feb 26, 2017 17:26:31 GMT
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Oct 30, 2016 10:56:43 GMT
October 2016
lunatic
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by Lunatic on Feb 3, 2017 1:02:42 GMT
Interesting. What sort of project was this? Do you have all this research written down somewhere? I always wanted the IT to be true. We did this with a number of guys in the original IT thread on the old BSN. I still have it around. It's in need of revision and recompiling though, there's a lot of unnecessary clutter. We kind of threw everything on a big pile. Some of it could be considered questionable, but that still leaves a lot of interesting stuff. The support for the destroy ending is rock solid though. I'll sort it out when I have some time. Shouldn't be too much work. Nice, I'd definately like to look it over when you get it sorted. No rush though.
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