sinkingfish
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 58 Likes: 48
inherit
2577
0
Jun 14, 2017 11:23:35 GMT
48
sinkingfish
58
January 2017
sinkingfish
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
|
Post by sinkingfish on Feb 5, 2017 13:07:33 GMT
I have to admit I was one of those people who initially disliked Inquisition. I replayed it a year or so later and ended up quite liking it. The ending to Mass Effect 3 deeply saddened me. Shepard was dead. His story was over. I felt like I'd lost a best friend. But at the same time I now see that is was proper for shepard to go down with the ship as it were. He'd stopped the reapers his war was over.
I have heard people say things like "Why did they make me collect 10 ram meat, I'm the inquisitor can't someone else do it" Well, no quite frankly because if someone else had done it, what would anyone need the inquisition for? Plus you weren't actually the inquisitor at that point. However the idea BEHIND it was to show people that you were on their side and here to help. My only real problem with Bioware in general is they keep shoehorning homosexual/transgender themes into places nobody asked them to be.
I think the main reason people disliked the ending of ME3 was because it wasn't a happy one. Nobody skipped off into the sunset holding hands and singing show tunes. Guess what? thats a story that people watch over and over in films and TV. Sometimes the good guy dies at the end. Sometimes the bad guy does what he does for nothing more than the sheer fact that he doesnt care who lives and dies. Why people always need a motivation beyond that baffles me. Sometimes they have an agenda. For example, most terrorist organistations want political change and use voilence to achieve their goal. Corypheus just wanted to rule the world/take it over. Thats fine with me I'm gonna make sure that doesnt happen. No it's not the most exciting reason in the world but then again they usually never are when examined closely.
Now comes along Andromeda. What are people expecting here? interesting storylines? A lost frying pan perhaps? You can tell the Khet are a carbon copy of the reapers, hell bent on destroying everything in their path. Yes they might dress it up to disguise that fact but what other reason could they have?
People really need to start accepting that story telling and character writing for bad guys doesnt really change all that much.
|
|
DoomsdayDevice
N3
Oh, me so scrubby! Me pugging long time! --- 78 URs to go
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Prime Posts: 2357
Posts: 351 Likes: 1,027
inherit
794
0
1,027
DoomsdayDevice
Oh, me so scrubby! Me pugging long time! --- 78 URs to go
351
August 2016
hipsterjack
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
2357
|
Post by DoomsdayDevice on Feb 5, 2017 14:05:58 GMT
I think the main reason people disliked the ending of ME3 was because it wasn't a happy one. You obviously weren't around if you think that was the problem. Or you haven't played the original ending before the EC came out. The complaints were not about Shepard dying or anything like that. The outrage about the ending was because in the original ending you basically got three times the same ending with only a variation in colour. The outrage was because they promised us "no ABC" ending, and then gave us an ABC ending. The outrage was because you got that ending by making some choice that everyone got to make, and the decisions you made during the trilogy didn't affect your ending whatsoever, in complete contradiction to what Bioware had been promising in their marketing campaign. The outrage was because they dropped some god kid on you that revealed a completely nonsensical yo dawg motivation for the Reapers. The outrage was because in the original ending you could only get the "Shepard lives" breath scene by playing multiplayer. The outrage was because no matter what ending you picked, you destroyed the entire Milky Way because of all the relays blowing up. The outrage was because the ending gave no closure whatsoever. Etc. etc. etc. It was NOT because it "wasn't a happy ending".
|
|
lukensen87
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LukeDuker
Posts: 559 Likes: 1,202
inherit
2090
0
1,202
lukensen87
559
Nov 14, 2016 21:58:05 GMT
November 2016
lukensen87
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LukeDuker
|
Post by lukensen87 on Feb 5, 2017 14:15:25 GMT
I liked my ME2 ending when almost everybody died.. It was not a happy ending sure, but it was ''my'' (choice) and I liked it. So I personally only disliked ME3 ending because it was not based on any of my choices from the whole trilogy, and it was about just picking one stupid color..
|
|
inherit
410
0
3,351
Sartoz
6,761
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on Feb 5, 2017 14:20:53 GMT
Vig Snip You can tell the Khet are a carbon copy of the reapers, hell bent on destroying everything in their path. Yes they might dress it up to disguise that fact but what other reason could they have? People really need to start accepting that story telling and character writing for bad guys doesnt really change all that much. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
"...Khet are a carbon copy of the reapers...". Hardly.... not even close.
To recap, the Khet politics is like an onion. Factions exist and the Archon belongs to a hawkish one. It's quite possible to convince the other politicos that we are milk and honey or at least not vinegar (I hate vinegar). Nevertheless, we must fight the Khet when we must and attempt to score political points when we can.
One of my personal concerns deals with the possibility that going off the core path will become another DA:I 'venture. That is, the "most glorious of Pathfinders" must come down to the peon level and dig up Elf Root for a living. A recent video trailer clearly shows the Pathfinder doing peon work which could be construed as a game time sink. This leads me to also question how well Bio learned from DA:I's unflattering open world mechanics.
|
|
inherit
410
0
3,351
Sartoz
6,761
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on Feb 5, 2017 14:23:18 GMT
I think the main reason people disliked the ending of ME3 was because it wasn't a happy one. You obviously weren't around if you think that was the problem. Or you haven't played the original ending before the EC came out. The complaints were not about Shepard dying or anything like that. The outrage about the ending was because in the original ending you basically got three times the same ending with only a variation in colour. The outrage was because they promised us "no ABC" ending, and then gave us an ABC ending. The outrage was because you got that ending by making some choice that everyone got to make, and the decisions you made during the trilogy didn't affect your ending whatsoever, in complete contradiction to what Bioware had been promising in their marketing campaign. The outrage was because they dropped some god kid on you that revealed a completely nonsensical yo dawg motivation for the Reapers. The outrage was because in the original ending you could only get the "Shepard lives" breath scene by playing multiplayer. The outrage was because no matter what ending you picked, you destroyed the entire Milky Way because of all the relays blowing up. The outrage was because the ending gave no closure whatsoever. Etc. etc. etc. It was NOT because it "wasn't a happy ending". ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Good recap.
|
|
sinkingfish
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 58 Likes: 48
inherit
2577
0
Jun 14, 2017 11:23:35 GMT
48
sinkingfish
58
January 2017
sinkingfish
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
|
Post by sinkingfish on Feb 5, 2017 14:48:50 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Good recap. Oh boy where to start with this cluster-fuck. I was around from the VERY start. Bought the original game back on the 360. The same ending that Shepard dies which was the whole point... if Shepard dies then its not an ABC ending is it. Because Shepard still dies at the end. They never promised that your choices would affect the ending because HE DIES AT THE END THUS ENDING THE STORY. (If someone wants to provide evidence to the contrary I am all for it) You see? this is what I'm talking about. People wanted Shepard to live. You can dress it up any way you want to but my post still sums up why people were angry. If you cannot admit it and have to fabricate complete bullshit then thats your perogative. Sometimes the story isnt fully explained sometimes the hero dies. Thats ok its a perfectly acceptable medium of story telling. Sometimes the reader/watcher is left to make up their own mind and not have closure. There is no way Bioware were going to allow Shepard to live. The reapers had been defeated so to let him live would have been silly. Why? because look at films like Rocky without Sly Stallone, or Die Hard without Bruce Willis, or games like Splinter Cell without Sam Fisher. These characters never get to retire. People always want to see them and death is the only way to move on from this. Tell me something, had you been in charge, would you have allowed Shepard to live? Be honest.
|
|
inherit
410
0
3,351
Sartoz
6,761
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on Feb 5, 2017 15:02:10 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Good recap. Oh boy where to start with this cluster-fuck. I was around from the VERY start. Bought the original game back on the 360. The same ending that Shepard dies which was the whole point... if Shepard dies then its not an ABC ending is it. Because Shepard still dies at the end. They never promised that your choices would affect the ending because HE DIES AT THE END THUS ENDING THE STORY. (If someone wants to provide evidence to the contrary I am all for it) You see? this is what I'm talking about. People wanted Shepard to live. You can dress it up any way you want to but my post still sums up why people were angry. If you cannot admit it and have to fabricate complete bullshit then thats your perogative. Sometimes the story isnt fully explained sometimes the hero dies. Thats ok its a perfectly acceptable medium of story telling. Sometimes the reader/watcher is left to make up their own mind and not have closure. There is no way Bioware were going to allow Shepard to live. The reapers had been defeated so to let him live would have been silly. Why? because look at films like Rocky without Sly Stallone, or Die Hard without Bruce Willis, or games like Splinter Cell without Sam Fisher. These characters never get to retire. People always want to see them and death is the only way to move on from this. Tell me something, had you been in charge, would you have allowed Shepard to live? Be honest. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Mass Effect concept was a trilogy. The last one was it. The ending got screwed so bad, Shep had to die to emphasize the trilogy's end.
Did I want Shep to live? Sure. The destroy option should have killed the Reapers, the Relays the Star Brat but not the Citadel. That would have left each race with only their FTL drives to move around. But, hey, at least civilization was saved!
|
|
Madflavor
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 486 Likes: 1,191
inherit
3114
0
1,191
Madflavor
486
Jan 29, 2017 23:30:31 GMT
January 2017
madflavor
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Madflavor on Feb 5, 2017 15:11:24 GMT
I'm going to preference that I write this having absolutely no idea what the full story of ME:A is. Because of course I don't, the game isn't out yet. I can only go by what I've seen from trailers and interviews. But I've been motivated to write this given one of the criticisms I've seen from people who have watched these trailers. That criticism is that the story and tone they are going for, seem "generic" and "safe". From what I've seen from the trailers, especially from the last one, is they're going for a mix of ME1 and ME2 in terms of story and tone. They seem to want to tell a story of discovery like ME1, but with the more upbeat and high adventure tone of ME2. I'm sure it spoke volumes to the writing team of ME3, when the ending was met with widespread hatred and protest, but the Citadel DLC (the actual send off) was met with tons of praise. It's pretty obvious what the take away from that is. In fact Casey Hudson did an interview a few years ago with OXM, where he said they pretty much learned a lot from fan reception towards the ending and the Citadel DLC. If we think back to 2012, a lot of upset fans were wondering how badly the ending controversy would affect Bioware in the coming years. Would people get over it within a year, or would it continue to fly over the company's heads like a dark cloud? Well we are officially less than two months away from the next Mass Effect game's release, and I feel like I can safely say that the ME3 Ending is still negatively affecting the company's reputation, and this shouldn't come as a surprise but, Bioware probably knows that. If Andromeda's storyline plays it safe, I believe it's because the writers felt like they had to, and if that's the case I don't blame them one bit. I love this franchise, but it's reputation was damaged after ME3. I don't think Andromeda needs to set a new bar for Mass Effect. I think it just needs to be a great game. A great game with fun gameplay, memorable characters, good worldbuilding, new and interesting lore, and a competent plot. If Bioware succeeds with that, and wins back the trust from the people that lost theirs, then they can probably start thinking about taking some risks. But for now, I think their priority is to just create a fun space adventure romp, and that's the feeling I've been getting. Link to the OXM interview? I'm asking because I never heard much about that in 2013. www.shacknews.com/article/79081/mass-effect-3-lessons-will-be-built-into-our-future
|
|
sinkingfish
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 58 Likes: 48
inherit
2577
0
Jun 14, 2017 11:23:35 GMT
48
sinkingfish
58
January 2017
sinkingfish
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
|
Post by sinkingfish on Feb 5, 2017 15:13:29 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Mass Effect concept was a trilogy. The last one was it. The ending got screwed so bad, Shep had to die to emphasize the trilogy's end.
Did I want Shep to live? Sure. The destroy option should have killed the Reapers, the Relays the Star Brat but not the Citadel. That would have left each race with only their FTL drives to move around. But, hey, at least civilization was saved!
Ok so lets say Shepard lives. The universe is saved and Mirandas fabulous ass is still intact. Bioware: Right we're making a new game called Mass Effect: Andromeda. But Shepard isnt is this one. Joe Public:Why not? Bioware: Because he isnt his story is over. Joe Public: Well where is he? Bioware: I dont know off on a beach drinking cocktails. Joe Public: but we need him its not mass Effect without him! Bioware: But he's not in this story! Joe Public: I'm not buying this game until they tell me where Shepard is, what he's been doing for the last x amount of years and what he had for dinner last week! And so on and so forth..... The point had to be driven home. To answer your point civilization is saved. The reapers are gone and humanity is still alive. ta-da! job done. Bioware have been writing stories since I was knee hight to a grasshopper. They know what they're doing. You might not always agree with them but they are experts in their field. Apart from David Gaider.
|
|
Madflavor
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 486 Likes: 1,191
inherit
3114
0
1,191
Madflavor
486
Jan 29, 2017 23:30:31 GMT
January 2017
madflavor
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Madflavor on Feb 5, 2017 15:26:12 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Good recap. Oh boy where to start with this cluster-fuck. I was around from the VERY start. Bought the original game back on the 360. The same ending that Shepard dies which was the whole point... if Shepard dies then its not an ABC ending is it. Because Shepard still dies at the end. They never promised that your choices would affect the ending because HE DIES AT THE END THUS ENDING THE STORY. (If someone wants to provide evidence to the contrary I am all for it) You see? this is what I'm talking about. People wanted Shepard to live. You can dress it up any way you want to but my post still sums up why people were angry. If you cannot admit it and have to fabricate complete bullshit then thats your perogative. Sometimes the story isnt fully explained sometimes the hero dies. Thats ok its a perfectly acceptable medium of story telling. Sometimes the reader/watcher is left to make up their own mind and not have closure. There is no way Bioware were going to allow Shepard to live. The reapers had been defeated so to let him live would have been silly. Why? because look at films like Rocky without Sly Stallone, or Die Hard without Bruce Willis, or games like Splinter Cell without Sam Fisher. These characters never get to retire. People always want to see them and death is the only way to move on from this. Tell me something, had you been in charge, would you have allowed Shepard to live? Be honest. If you've been around since the very start, then you obviously didn't pay any attention to people's criticisms at the time. Don't say you did, because you clearly didn't if you think it was all a front for Shepard dying. Shepard's death in all three endings stung more, because of how badly written the ending was. People generally wouldn't be angry if their hero died, if they believed in the hero's cause and his sacrifice. But people didn't believe in his sacrifice because of how shitty the ending was. There have been professional writers who have worked in the sci-fi genre, who voiced out how bad ME3's ending was. Just recently the author of The Expanse mentioned how bad he thought it was. Hell there was an article from Writer's Digest that released around the same time as ME3, called "The Dos and Don'ts When Writing an Ending", and ME3's ending broke almost every rule that article stated.
|
|
inherit
3369
0
May 12, 2017 10:06:02 GMT
261
simsimillia
215
February 2017
simsimillia
|
Post by simsimillia on Feb 5, 2017 15:45:44 GMT
[...] My only real problem with Bioware in general is they keep shoehorning homosexual/transgender themes into places nobody asked them to be. [...] I asked for it and I like it. Care to elaborate? Also, about the ending: The biggest problem was (at least for me) the whole "willing suspension of disbelief" thing. Also, finding the Crucible Plans on Mars JUST before the Reaper attacks is awfully convinient and the whole series would've been soooooo much better if the Crucible Plans had been aquired at the End of Mass Effect 2.
|
|
inherit
Warning Points: 1
3116
0
Aug 28, 2024 23:38:02 GMT
8,041
vonuber
2,580
January 2017
vonuber
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by vonuber on Feb 5, 2017 16:08:22 GMT
My only real problem with Bioware in general is they keep shoehorning homosexual/transgender themes into places nobody asked them to be. Oh, you are one of those. You must hate my avatar then
|
|
DoomsdayDevice
N3
Oh, me so scrubby! Me pugging long time! --- 78 URs to go
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Prime Posts: 2357
Posts: 351 Likes: 1,027
inherit
794
0
1,027
DoomsdayDevice
Oh, me so scrubby! Me pugging long time! --- 78 URs to go
351
August 2016
hipsterjack
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
2357
|
Post by DoomsdayDevice on Feb 5, 2017 16:10:35 GMT
if Shepard dies then its not an ABC ending is it. Because Shepard still dies at the end. What the hell are you on about? An ABC ending is where you get to choose between choice A, B or C. Which is what we got. Why would that have anything to do with Shepard living or dying? They never promised that your choices would affect the ending because HE DIES AT THE END THUS ENDING THE STORY. (If someone wants to provide evidence to the contrary I am all for it) lol At your service: Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] "Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?" Hudson: "Yeah, and I'd say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don't have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them."
"There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it."
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer):
"There are many different endings. We wouldn't do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can't say any more than that…"
"Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."
"Of course you don't have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you'll still get all the same endings and same information, it's just a totally different way of playing"
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer):
"[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."
Official Mass Effect Website:
"Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome."If you cannot admit it and have to fabricate complete bullshit then thats your perogative. Fabricate? On the contrary. These are the known facts, whether you like it or not. If you're saying Bioware never said these things, you're in complete denial completely delusional. Sometimes the story isnt fully explained sometimes the hero dies. Thats ok its a perfectly acceptable medium of story telling. Yes, it is. Which it is why it wasn't a problem. I'm perfectly fine with bittersweet and tragic endings, as long as they make some fucking sense. Which they didn't. And that was the reason for the outrage. Yes, there were people who didn't like the fact that there was no happy ending, but it was not the main reason for the outrage, not even by a long shot. It was because Bioware didn't deliver what they promised. It was because the motivation for the Reapers slaughtered the main plot. The three ending cutscenes that were virtually identical except for the colour, it was the laziest ending ever. Tell me something, had you been in charge, would you have allowed Shepard to live? Be honest. Only if the ending was indeed an indoctrination attempt. Shepard would be indoctrinated and/or dead in the control and synthesis endings, and only by picking destroy would he resist the indoctrination attempt. He would wake up in ME4 realizing the Reapers hadn't been destroyed at all. In a face value interpretation of the ending? No. Shepard doesn't need to survive.
|
|
Madflavor
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 486 Likes: 1,191
inherit
3114
0
1,191
Madflavor
486
Jan 29, 2017 23:30:31 GMT
January 2017
madflavor
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Madflavor on Feb 5, 2017 16:14:23 GMT
My only real problem with Bioware in general is they keep shoehorning homosexual/transgender themes into places nobody asked them to be. Oh, you are one of those. You must hate my avatar then OOoooooh! Those two ladies kisses sure does trigger me to my bones! /s
|
|
inherit
1286
0
2,137
SofNascimento
1,316
Aug 27, 2016 13:51:04 GMT
August 2016
sofnascimento
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
|
Post by SofNascimento on Feb 5, 2017 16:23:13 GMT
My only real problem with Bioware in general is they keep shoehorning homosexual/transgender themes into places nobody asked them to be. Oh, you are one of those. You must hate my avatar then Is it from Life is Strange? Anyway, DAI handled those themes is a very unsubtle and unelegant way. They were there to promote a point of view without a second thought if they make sense or not in the story. Can't say I'm a fan of that. Even if I agree with it.
|
|
inherit
Warning Points: 1
3116
0
Aug 28, 2024 23:38:02 GMT
8,041
vonuber
2,580
January 2017
vonuber
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by vonuber on Feb 5, 2017 16:40:23 GMT
Is it from Life is Strange? Yup. Or 'I'm not crying honest it's the dust and onions oh God whhhyyyy' simulator.
|
|
inherit
Bookaholic: 1776 Edition
3148
0
Apr 16, 2019 17:41:17 GMT
3,352
fiannawolf
For I am the Reading Rainbow.
1,608
January 2017
fiannawolf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
N7 Ghostwolf
|
Post by fiannawolf on Feb 5, 2017 18:00:54 GMT
I think the main reason people disliked the ending of ME3 was because it wasn't a happy one. You obviously weren't around if you think that was the problem. Or you haven't played the original ending before the EC came out. The complaints were not about Shepard dying or anything like that. The outrage about the ending was because in the original ending you basically got three times the same ending with only a variation in colour. The outrage was because they promised us "no ABC" ending, and then gave us an ABC ending. The outrage was because you got that ending by making some choice that everyone got to make, and the decisions you made during the trilogy didn't affect your ending whatsoever, in complete contradiction to what Bioware had been promising in their marketing campaign. The outrage was because they dropped some god kid on you that revealed a completely nonsensical yo dawg motivation for the Reapers. The outrage was because in the original ending you could only get the "Shepard lives" breath scene by playing multiplayer. The outrage was because no matter what ending you picked, you destroyed the entire Milky Way because of all the relays blowing up. The outrage was because the ending gave no closure whatsoever. Etc. etc. etc. It was NOT because it "wasn't a happy ending". Adding in one aspect in addition to above elements: I was part of the fanbase that wanted to be able to earn a "Perfect/More Uplifting" ending thru choices/logic. It wouldnt be the easiest ending to earn but people wanted the option. I saw all this stuff and more after the original ending fallout. But when the EC hit, some people were content with the squad slides, some were utterly disgusted by the lack of care on bioware's part. They only listened to the easier to manage items on the list and not the underpinnings of the ending's narrative. Many felt that the "new" refusal ending added in was a giant middle finger because Mac/Cheese didn't like the fact that people kept shooting the kid in vids. These are just a few vids that hit right after the original endings. To say people were disappointed was a big understatement. Edit: For clarification, if shep needed to die, I would have understood if the ending supported it but it doesnt. Unlike Sheridan's end, this thing was utterly fatalistic. Sheridan had a sad end but he also had a fulfilling ending.
|
|
inherit
35
0
7,697
crashsuit
1,753
August 2016
crashsuit
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
crashsuit
crashsuit
2,140
2,789
|
Post by crashsuit on Feb 6, 2017 4:31:45 GMT
I liked the endings.
|
|
sinkingfish
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 58 Likes: 48
inherit
2577
0
Jun 14, 2017 11:23:35 GMT
48
sinkingfish
58
January 2017
sinkingfish
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
|
Post by sinkingfish on Feb 6, 2017 8:16:33 GMT
if Shepard dies then its not an ABC ending is it. Because Shepard still dies at the end. What the hell are you on about? An ABC ending is where you get to choose between choice A, B or C. Which is what we got. Why would that have anything to do with Shepard living or dying? They never promised that your choices would affect the ending because HE DIES AT THE END THUS ENDING THE STORY. (If someone wants to provide evidence to the contrary I am all for it) lol At your service: Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] "Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?" Hudson: "Yeah, and I'd say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don't have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them."
"There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it."
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer):
"There are many different endings. We wouldn't do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can't say any more than that…"
"Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."
"Of course you don't have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you'll still get all the same endings and same information, it's just a totally different way of playing"
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer):
"[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."
Official Mass Effect Website:
"Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome."If you cannot admit it and have to fabricate complete bullshit then thats your perogative. Fabricate? On the contrary. These are the known facts, whether you like it or not. If you're saying Bioware never said these things, you're in complete denial completely delusional. Sometimes the story isnt fully explained sometimes the hero dies. Thats ok its a perfectly acceptable medium of story telling. Yes, it is. Which it is why it wasn't a problem. I'm perfectly fine with bittersweet and tragic endings, as long as they make some fucking sense. Which they didn't. And that was the reason for the outrage. Yes, there were people who didn't like the fact that there was no happy ending, but it was not the main reason for the outrage, not even by a long shot. It was because Bioware didn't deliver what they promised. It was because the motivation for the Reapers slaughtered the main plot. The three ending cutscenes that were virtually identical except for the colour, it was the laziest ending ever. Tell me something, had you been in charge, would you have allowed Shepard to live? Be honest. Only if the ending was indeed an indoctrination attempt. Shepard would be indoctrinated and/or dead in the control and synthesis endings, and only by picking destroy would he resist the indoctrination attempt. He would wake up in ME4 realizing the Reapers hadn't been destroyed at all. In a face value interpretation of the ending? No. Shepard doesn't need to survive. I love it when people post stuff and then bend it to fit their narrative. he still didnt say anywhere in that block of text that your choices were going to affect the ending. He was spelling out what was going to happen. You would get three paths but they would all lead to the same place. SHEPARS DIES. Spelled out in big letters. The story arc ENDS with this game. I've already told you that some writers dont explain the ending and they leave it down to you the viewer/reader. Ian.M. Banks is a classic sci fi writer who does this. The TV series Lost did this, the ending of The Sopranos. Why is Mass Effect recieved with such hate because they dont spell everything out for you. Make up your own mind. create your own story.
|
|
inherit
Bookaholic: 1776 Edition
3148
0
Apr 16, 2019 17:41:17 GMT
3,352
fiannawolf
For I am the Reading Rainbow.
1,608
January 2017
fiannawolf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
N7 Ghostwolf
|
Post by fiannawolf on Feb 6, 2017 19:28:59 GMT
Banks is a decent writer. I prefer Reynolds "Revelation Space" series though. the Lost ending was just as disappointing as ME3 ending. Books can get away with the "interpret your own thing" ever so often because they arent as visual but they can sill have piss poor endings. Even my favorite book series, Dune, not counting the stuff done by Anderson/H. Jr, had a horrible cliffhanger end without H. Senior there to wrap it up properly. A bittersweet ending that made sense, for tv that is, Babylon 5. www.digitaltrends.com/movies/worst-tv-series-finales-ever/Lost and Sopranos were listed back to back as worst crapouts ever. Nice. And to be frank, everyone distorts narratives to fulfill confirmation bias to their needs. The trick is to find out what the facts were before everyone started to chime in.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,096 Likes: 49,948
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,948
Iakus
21,096
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Feb 6, 2017 19:57:22 GMT
There is no way Bioware were going to allow Shepard to live. The reapers had been defeated so to let him live would have been silly. Why? because look at films like Rocky without Sly Stallone, or Die Hard without Bruce Willis, or games like Splinter Cell without Sam Fisher. These characters never get to retire. People always want to see them and death is the only way to move on from this. Tell me something, had you been in charge, would you have allowed Shepard to live? Be honest. Or like the Bhaalspawn, or Revan, or the Spirit Monk, or the Warden... Wait... IF I had been in charge, there would have been a true variety of fates for Shepard. Some where Shepard lived, some where Shepard died. Some where Shep lived, but the galaxy was absolutely trashed. SOme where Shepard dies but saves everyone else. With a few truly dark, tragic endings and a couple of hard-to-achieve "Golden endings" on the edges. Something for everyone.
|
|
DoomsdayDevice
N3
Oh, me so scrubby! Me pugging long time! --- 78 URs to go
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Prime Posts: 2357
Posts: 351 Likes: 1,027
inherit
794
0
1,027
DoomsdayDevice
Oh, me so scrubby! Me pugging long time! --- 78 URs to go
351
August 2016
hipsterjack
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
2357
|
Post by DoomsdayDevice on Feb 6, 2017 20:22:02 GMT
I love it when people post stuff and then bend it to fit their narrative. I didn't "bend" anything, I gave you a bunch of literal quotes. If you'd pay attention, you'd see they're all blatant marketing lies. They're literally saying we wouldn't get an ABC ending. he still didnt say anywhere in that block of text that your choices were going to affect the ending. Yeah, at this point I have to wonder whether you're being intellectually dishonest, or you simply lack reading comprehension. If I'm trying to be nice, I'm guessing it must be the latter, because not only can you not see what is literally being said, you're also continuously arguing against points that I'm not making, case in point: He was spelling out what was going to happen. You would get three paths but they would all lead to the same place. SHEPARS DIES. Spelled out in big letters. The story arc ENDS with this game. Again, why bring this up? No one said it wasn't okay for the story arc to end. The problem was the way in which it ended; it did not make sense. I've already told you that some writers dont explain the ending and they leave it down to you the viewer/reader. Ian.M. Banks is a classic sci fi writer who does this. The TV series Lost did this, the ending of The Sopranos. Why is Mass Effect recieved with such hate because they dont spell everything out for you. Make up your own mind. create your own story. And again. You don't have to explain the value of an open or interpretable ending to me. No one said that was the problem. Let me make this clear to you again; 1. You trivialised the ending outrage by saying people just hated the ending because Shepard died. 2. I protested that by listing the major complaints about the ending at that time. I didn't even say I agreed with all of them! And sure, for some people the fact that Shepard died, or that there was no "uplifting" ending was some part of it. But it was not the major reason for the outrage, not by a long shot. You know, as far as I'm concerned you can even say the ending was the best ever. I don't mind an opinion. What I do mind is people trivialising facts. Saying people "were just mad because Shepard died" does absolutely no justice to the complaints people had at the time, regardless of whether I agreed with those complaints.
|
|
inherit
Bookaholic: 1776 Edition
3148
0
Apr 16, 2019 17:41:17 GMT
3,352
fiannawolf
For I am the Reading Rainbow.
1,608
January 2017
fiannawolf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
N7 Ghostwolf
|
Post by fiannawolf on Feb 7, 2017 7:55:10 GMT
*rummages around internets for various meme pics of ending ala original 2012* It was like watching a cascade effect of epic PR fail meets broken promises meets absolute horror at how bad the darned thing was.
|
|
sinkingfish
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 58 Likes: 48
inherit
2577
0
Jun 14, 2017 11:23:35 GMT
48
sinkingfish
58
January 2017
sinkingfish
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
|
Post by sinkingfish on Feb 7, 2017 8:28:43 GMT
And again. You don't have to explain the value of an open or interpretable ending to me. No one said that was the problem. Let me make this clear to you again; 1. You trivialised the ending outrage by saying people just hated the ending because Shepard died. 2. I protested that by listing the major complaints about the ending at that time. I didn't even say I agreed with all of them! And sure, for some people the fact that Shepard died, or that there was no "uplifting" ending was some part of it. But it was not the major reason for the outrage, not by a long shot. You know, as far as I'm concerned you can even say the ending was the best ever. I don't mind an opinion. What I do mind is people trivialising facts. Saying people "were just mad because Shepard died" does absolutely no justice to the complaints people had at the time, regardless of whether I agreed with those complaints. 1) But the value of an interpratable ending IS THE PROBLEM. Look at those videos and almost everyone claims the ending is bad because they didnt get it. 2) As far as I understand it, the ending means Shepard sacrifices himself to end the cycle of the reapers coming back and wiping out life again. Yes it was about Shepard dying. people were expecting him to swoop in and save the day but they weren't expecting him to die. Even though it was heavily hinted at. I dont claim that the ending was perfect. I've seen better endings in books, TV, Films for sure. but to get so worked up based on the fact that the ending didnt fit what people thought it should be and to demand they change it? Come on. You know as well as I do had shepard lived people would have been fine with the ending. Maybe the makers of Butch and Sundance made their ending the way they did to spark a debate. Also as a last note on one of those videos someone mentioned 16 endings. Where did they get that from?
|
|
inherit
2096
0
Sept 12, 2018 6:47:07 GMT
41
steamshipman
48
November 2016
steamshipman
|
Post by steamshipman on Feb 7, 2017 13:07:12 GMT
How? It didn't happen for thousands of years, I don't see why it'd happen now. That's in any case a different issue then the new AI changing priorities. If you use the Reapers, someone will find out that and how they are controlled - same way we found out. When you calculate what will happen after your decision on how to use the crucible you have (IMO) to take the possibility into account that you might not be able to hold control forever, because you just proved that it CAN be taken away. That's why control wasn't an option for me (besides never wanting that power in the first place). Synthesis was a decision no one should make for everyone else, so destroy was really the only option for my Shepards, who believed in free will etc. Pardon me for bringing back off-topic conversation from several pages ago but there was one alternative what wasn't mentioned. It has weak points of course, I know it. Personally, I prefer completely ignore everything that happened between jumping into the beam of light and one of ending cut scenes. It's just terrible so why keep it? So jump and here are you choices. And when presented with two choices (synthesis is too delusional and evil for me) I think that control can work just perfectly. Especially if Shep-Anderson-Tim final scene was ignored too since it pushes generalization that 'control is bad' very expressively. But hey, you can break the stupid rules with control ending! You assuming direct control of all reapers and if you think this is right thing to do than just command them to fly into nearest star (may be after rebuilding relays). The deed is done and all species (AI included) can come back to their lives with lessons learned and with their nature intact. Given the circumstances, I perceive this as perfect resolution - and very satisfying ending for Sheppard story. Also sorry for my English.
|
|