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Post by alanc9 on Feb 9, 2017 18:15:32 GMT
What the actual fuck? Four hours of salty gamer tears? Ye gods. I was gonna watch it, but no way I'm putting in that much time.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 9, 2017 18:30:14 GMT
Lorerunner is one of the best personalities on YouTube. Granted i have not seen his ME stuff ever but the rest of his stuff is pretty insightful even when i disagree with him and he's not just "salty gamer tears "
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 9, 2017 19:09:20 GMT
I don't know about his stuff in general. Maybe it's good, but that particular vid looks pretty dopey. Interesting, though, to see a (presumably) intelligent commentator reduced to incoherence, to the point where he doesn't even realize it himself.
You can certainly use this as a data point against ME; any game which can do that to someone clearly has problems. But it doesn't make Lorerunner's analysis useful.
Come to think of it, I think this vid is an example of how YouTube vids are a lousy medium for presenting analysis.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 9, 2017 19:20:12 GMT
sinkingfish - you are Casey Hudson and I claim my five pounds.
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Post by armass81 on Feb 9, 2017 19:59:54 GMT
Lorerunner makes one mistake at least in his video, he says "at no point did we know or is it mentioned that crucible is an energy source", and i just played ME3 and know thats just wrong. Hackett mentions that the crucible can generate tremendous amounts of energy but knows not how it will disperse it and in what form after the Tuchanka missions.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 9, 2017 20:12:34 GMT
Lorerunner makes one mistake at least in his video, he says "at no point did we know or is it mentioned that crucible is an energy source", and i just played ME3 and know thats just wrong. Hackett mentions that the crucible can generate tremendous amounts of energy but knows not how it will disperse it and in what form after the Tuchanka missions. He says that right after the coup when talking with Anderson and Shepard
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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 9, 2017 21:21:50 GMT
Biggest reason why I am linking all these vids is because there was something that happened with this particular ending that really drove logic under a bridge and got under everyone's buttons in one way or another. Ill def. include myself in that category. What made me beyond upset by the end of ME3?
Was it the narrative? The lack of emotional payoff? Did I hype myself up too much and thus expected the impossible?*
I honestly think this is the most fascinating thread on here. For me at least.
*Andrew Ryan: I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? 'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture, a city where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality, Where the great would not be constrained by the small! And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well.
Why didn't the ending of Bioshock 1/2 or Infinite tick me off? Maybe its apples to oranges but perhaps having input into Shepard's actions had something to do with it? Or was it unflinching faith in bioware at the time? Since I loved KOTOR so much. Along with Dragon Age: Origins.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 9, 2017 22:31:24 GMT
fiannawolf,, you're already doing better than those vids on your own.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 9, 2017 22:58:03 GMT
But it doesn't change the fact that a decent amount of people feel that way. Just look at the comments in the video. Or even the comments below it. People had a visceral reaction to how everything didn't tie together. Logic, in this instance, doesn't have much to do with it. But that's exactly the problem with the video. It's not just "I didn't like ME3," it's "I didn't like ME3 for these reasons," and the reason part gets to be judged on its logic. If cheating boss fights are one of the most serious problems with ME3, then why didn't they sink all the other Bio games which used them? Unless you want to say that KotOR et al. sucked too -- a perfectly defensible position -- then you have to come up with a reason why the Kai Leng fight was worse than the Malak fight, etc. I like peanut butter. I like pizza. I don't like peanut butter on my pizza.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 9, 2017 23:11:28 GMT
That's a coherent argument, unlike the ones in the video. It works because we have a usable definition of "pizza."
It's OK to say that ME3 was different from all other games in such a way as to make things which worked in other games unworkable in ME3, as long as you can say what made ME3 different from those other games. Lorerunner can't or won't do that. Plus the incoherence of stuff like saying that the Reapers could have been conventionally defeated. Bio gets to decide that they can't be, and nothing we see in the game shows otherwise.
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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 9, 2017 23:15:44 GMT
fiannawolf,, you're already doing better than those vids on your own. I am just trying my best to stay as open minded as I can, even in the face of my own salt and bias, its like I am trying to exorcise pinapples off my pizza before ME:A hits. *I do like Lorerunner's Babylon 5 vids. Esp while rewatching the series.' Dangit...now I want some pizza. Luckily we have leftovers downstairs. WOO!
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Post by Iakus on Feb 10, 2017 20:31:03 GMT
That's a coherent argument, unlike the ones in the video. It works because we have a usable definition of "pizza." It's OK to say that ME3 was different from all other games in such a way as to make things which worked in other games unworkable in ME3, as long as you can say what made ME3 different from those other games. Lorerunner can't or won't do that. Plus the incoherence of stuff like saying that the Reapers could have been conventionally defeated. Bio gets to decide that they can't be, and nothing we see in the game shows otherwise. Have you ever seen the "troll" ending in Jade Empire? The one where the Spirit Monk is convinced to allow himself to be killed so the Evil Overlord's plan can come into fruition and lead to a glorious new era for the Jade Empire. That's kinda like what ALL the endings were for me. The Glorious Strategist delivers on his promise, preserves the Empire, and the Spirit Monk is hailed as a savior for "playing his/her part" in saving it. But it's quite clear that a terrible price was paid. It is, despite all outward appearances, a "bad" ending. Yet in ME3, this would be considered a "good ending" Dissonance, anyone?
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Feb 10, 2017 21:06:59 GMT
That's a coherent argument, unlike the ones in the video. It works because we have a usable definition of "pizza." It's OK to say that ME3 was different from all other games in such a way as to make things which worked in other games unworkable in ME3, as long as you can say what made ME3 different from those other games. Lorerunner can't or won't do that. Plus the incoherence of stuff like saying that the Reapers could have been conventionally defeated. Bio gets to decide that they can't be, and nothing we see in the game shows otherwise. Have you ever seen the "troll" ending in Jade Empire? The one where the Spirit Monk is convinced to allow himself to be killed so the Evil Overlord's plan can come into fruition and lead to a glorious new era for the Jade Empire. That's kinda like what ALL the endings were for me. The Glorious Strategist delivers on his promise, preserves the Empire, and the Spirit Monk is hailed as a savior for "playing his/her part" in saving it. But it's quite clear that a terrible price was paid. It is, despite all outward appearances, a "bad" ending. Yet in ME3, this would be considered a "good ending" Dissonance, anyone? That's actually an oft heard argument for IT.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 10, 2017 21:48:10 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Besides poor lip syncing and facial animation, the other concern is the way Bio showed the Turian disarm animation (shown in the Dec 2016 trailer). That disarm sequence was so badly done, imo. We can see it immediately something is off.
Still, from Dec 2016 to March 2017, there are 3.5 months of work available to smooth things out.
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Post by Cirvante on Feb 11, 2017 2:41:19 GMT
WWII, Hiroshima and Nagasaki getting nuked was the only thing that won the war. The Japanese much like the Reapers, didnt know how to surerender. The crucible forced them to do so. The war was won by an ultimate show on force on both occasions. This bolded line is historically wrong on so many levels. Japan Was militarily exhausted long before the summer of 1945. And facing three allied powers now unencumbered by the European front would mean certain doom. The A-bombs just quickend Japan's surrender and showed the soviets that they couldn't grab too many lands in the east. The nukes had nothing to do with Japan's surrender and the declaration of war and subsequent invasion by the Soviet Union had everything to do with it. 66 Japanese cities had been firebombed conventionally and many had been more thoroughly destroyed than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japanese leadership didn't care about the bombings and were still hoping that either Stalin (who was until then neutral) could broker a peace on more favourable terms than unconditional surrender, or that their strong ground forces could inflict heavy casualties on the invading US forces. Stalin's entry into the war evaporated both of these options and resulted in the High Council convening and discussing unconditional surrender for the first time. Article: The Bomb didn't beat Japan, Stalin didAnd Stalin was quite unimpressed by the A-bombs. His most famous quote on this subject is: 'Atomic bombs are only useful to scare people with weak nerves.'
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 11, 2017 4:03:57 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Besides poor lip syncing and facial animation, the other concern is the way Bio showed the Turian disarm animation (shown in the Dec 2016 trailer). That disarm sequence was so badly done, imo. We can see it immediately something is off.
Still, from Dec 2016 to March 2017, there are 3.5 months of work available to smooth things out.
It's just poorly directed. The turian threatens with his gun as he walks closer to Ryder, and... Ryder just... takes it? Huh?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 4:06:18 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Besides poor lip syncing and facial animation, the other concern is the way Bio showed the Turian disarm animation (shown in the Dec 2016 trailer). That disarm sequence was so badly done, imo. We can see it immediately something is off.
Still, from Dec 2016 to March 2017, there are 3.5 months of work available to smooth things out.
It's just poorly directed. The turian threatens with his gun as he walks closer to Ryder, and... Ryder just... takes it? Huh? So, should it be something like this?
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Post by Cirvante on Feb 11, 2017 4:47:53 GMT
It's just poorly directed. The turian threatens with his gun as he walks closer to Ryder, and... Ryder just... takes it? Huh? So, should it be something like this? No, that'll get you killed in reality. The moment you grab the gun, the other person will pull the trigger. So you better be outside the line of fire when he does. To demonstrate realism you need a crazy Russian willing to have a blank shot at his face:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 4:57:05 GMT
So, should it be something like this? No, that'll get you killed in reality. The moment you grab the gun, the other person will pull the trigger. So you better be outside the line of fire when he does. To demonstrate realism you need a crazy Russian willing to have a blank shot at his face: Then something like this would never work in that particular scene because by the time Ryder does that, the other two krogan and Kelly would have already shot her to death.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Feb 11, 2017 5:01:02 GMT
Not a huge fan of the change from Unreal Engine to Frostbite.
Why? =/
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Post by Cirvante on Feb 11, 2017 5:26:35 GMT
No, that'll get you killed in reality. The moment you grab the gun, the other person will pull the trigger. So you better be outside the line of fire when he does. To demonstrate realism you need a crazy Russian willing to have a blank shot at his face: Then something like this would never work in that particular scene because by the time Ryder does that, the other two krogan and Kelly would have already shot her to death. Exactly. Even if she could pull her sloppy disarm off without getting her ass killed, the two Krogans would simply execute her from behind. She disarms the Turian and points the gun at him, but what do the Krogans care about him? You can't initiate a proper Mexican stand-off while utterly outgunned AND pointing your gun at the wrong target. The whole scene is just terribly written, the animation guys can't be blamed for that. If Ryder had her whole squad with her, with Drack and Vetra having her back against those Krogans, they could have a proper stand-off. It's like DAI all over again: "Leliana, the strong and independent womyn, knocks out several Venatori." "Wait, what? She knocks out fully armored men with a wooden bow?" "Just make it happen, it'll be really cool and empowering for her." The writers are hacks who don't think their scenes through. Nuff said.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 11, 2017 5:42:47 GMT
Not a huge fan of the change from Unreal Engine to Frostbite. Why? =/ Are you asking yourself why you aren't a fan because you don't have an explanation?
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Post by colfoley on Feb 11, 2017 5:43:14 GMT
Then something like this would never work in that particular scene because by the time Ryder does that, the other two krogan and Kelly would have already shot her to death. Exactly. Even if she could pull her sloppy disarm off without getting her ass killed, the two Krogans would simply execute her from behind. She disarms the Turian and points the gun at him, but what do the Krogans care about him? You can't initiate a proper Mexican stand-off while utterly outgunned AND pointing your gun at the wrong target. The whole scene is just terribly written, the animation guys can't be blamed for that. If Ryder had her whole squad with her, with Drack and Vetra having her back against those Krogans, they could have a proper stand-off. It's like DAI all over again: "Leliana, the strong and independent womyn, knocks out several Venatori." "Wait, what? She nocks out fully armored men with a wooden bow?" "Just make it happen, it'll be really cool and empowering for her." The writers are hacks who don't think their scenes through. Nuff said. Or, we don't know the full story and context for that particular scene yet and should wait for the entire game to come out. The very next words out of Kelly's mouth, after Ryder performed the take down was "DROP IT...NOW!" So we can make a couple of easy assumptions from this. A. Kelly does not want Ryder dead. Ryder could have information she needs. They could be needing to work together for one reason or another. Or she just might not want blood on the carpet. B. The two Krogan in the background are probably trained henchman who may not react unless shots are fired, or under the personal order of Kelly herself. C. And since Ryder is heavily outnumbered, and surrounded, and out gunned severely, the Krogan know she pulls little risk so there is little reason for them to pull the trigger unless they are gun toting maniacs, which could be bad writing. Especially considering Kelly likely has shields to protect her, as well as the Krogan, so if Ryder tries anything BEYOND disarming the Turian (a potentially irrational act given the circumstances) then she'd be mincemeat.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Feb 11, 2017 6:14:40 GMT
Not a huge fan of the change from Unreal Engine to Frostbite. Why? =/ Are you asking yourself why you aren't a fan because you don't have an explanation? Just a general question, of why they decided to switch, to whomever may know. lol I assume it's because EA owns Dice and Frostbite was developed by Dice. But idk. The reason I don't like it is because it looks less realistic and more cartoonish than the original trilogy and when I was playing DA:I, the look of the characters in the game was always something that bugged me.
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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 11, 2017 6:18:14 GMT
The new UK mag info indicated they had some of the Dice crew help them with Frostbite. So once I see some of those early access lets plays, then Ill decide how optimized it is.
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