Iron Bull romance thread

It did seem rather strange that Trespasser was intended to give closure on the Inquisitor's story and then they ended it as they did. If you didn't know they had said that there would be a new protagonist each game, you'd definitely think the Inquisitor would be back, plus whoever their love interest is in support, which would of course create no end of problems. So I think that is unlikely. I thought the way they handled Hawke being on their own was lame. After DA2 ended with the only person still with them being their love interest, why would that change? It was particularly noticeable if that LI was Anders (why would Hawke leave him to manage alone?) or Fenris (who was quite adamant at the end of my play through that he would rather die with Hawke than live without them). So may be the way they left it for Iron Bull was for the best. As you say, you can then imagine your own scenario as to how the ex-Inquisitor is filling their time knowing that they will always been in his thoughts. I'm sure he would dash to the rescue if he thought they were in danger.

Sigh. That is frustrating. They do (and Weekes in particular) seem to have weird ideas about romances and what's appropriate/acceptable, like that statement he made about why Solas couldn't be bisexual (b/c he'd be the "evil bisexual" trope). 

I kind of wonder if at that point (saying the inquisitor would be subordinate to Bull and so it wouldn't work) he was realizing that he hadn't quite gotten that aspect of the relationship right. Or maybe not "not right" since a ton of people really do like it, but just problematic.

In my own canon at least, Lavellan will no longer the inquisitor and so that power dynamic is gone. So I envision them putting aside the BDSM stuff, especially since Bull's been so long out of the qun so he may be more comfortable removing power from sex and instead focusing on simple expression of love and intimacy. Though hey maybe they do bust out the ropes and handcuffs every now and then to keep things spicy 

Yep, and the negative reaction to Iron Bull/Dorian's (in my opinion) abusive sounding relationship lead to that relationship getting more attention that it deserved to justify it during Trespasser. It bothers me more then it should I admit, but why spend so much time on a companion relationship instead of fleshing out the content with the inquisitor during Trespasser? Meh...sorry if I sound like a hater. lol!

Nah, that's normal to want one's own relationship to be validated alongside an alternate canon. When attention is lopsidedly in favor of one over the other, resentment will grow.
As for the accusations of Bull and Dorian having an abusive relationship...I don't want to dismiss carefully checking for signs in any suspicious moments...but I'm more inclined to say it's not. At least, it's not as easy to pick out compared to the more obvious examples like Sera's ultimatum and taking a swing at her girlfriend's head if taken on the Adamant mission (I've checked with a couples' therapist; what Sera does IS abusive. I don't want to make Sera fans feel that they're wrong to love her and romance her, because people are complicated and are not doomed forever after to stay in such a negative state, but neither should something like abuse be ignored.)

I sympathise with you on both those fronts. My main gripe with Fenris was that poor Hawke is put through two years of agony not knowing where they are in the relationship but Isabella is just plain sailing. I know Fenris didn't care for Isabella like he did for Hawke in the end but it was still annoying. I seem to be a serial "my boyfriend just went off for 2 years leaving me dangling." person. First there was Fenris, then Solas and even Dorian if you don't say exactly the right things after the Temple of Mythal. (I cheated to make sure I did).

As for the Iron Bull/Dorian pairing I've never been entirely happy with that either. I think Tal'Vashoth Bull is fair enough but Qun loyal Bull just seems totally off where Dorian is concerned, although it is Dorian's actions that I principally question. If you take him on the personal quest, Dorian rants on about how terrible the Qun are, sees Bull let his buddies die, knows his country is still officially at war with the Qun (although not actively so at that time) and yet gets into a long term relationship with him. I know he says he doesn't care about being a pariah but he also claims to love his country. Then we are meant to believe that the Magisterium/Archon would make him an official ambassador for their country. I surprised they didn't string him up when he got home. That is a serious security risk, particularly when you consider that Dorian's family estate is just outside Qarinus, which has always been on the front line during any Qunari invasion.  Then Dorian claims Bull doesn't understand why they can't be together.  Ben'Hassrath Bull would totally understand, so he has to be trying to manipulate him. 

The amount of attention given to the Bull/Dorian romance in Trespasser, both in game and in the epilogue screens, did seem to be a bit of overkill if it was just meant to be trying to address the accusations against it. Compare it with the amount of time given to the Sera romance with Dagna and it is clearly unbalanced in favour of the companion pairing. I was irritated by that as a Dorian romance but I thought it really unfair to the Bull romancers.

One thing I did find funny though, when I saw it on You Tube, was how come Dorian only gets an allergic reaction to stripweed if he is in a romance with Bull?

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS   (I have noticed though that that is the less popular opinion)

I understand the bias on the writers part, though. Dorian and Bull are defined, set characters. I can't fault two writers for finding a pairing that they enjoyed and inspired them and running with it. I think they're more cautious when it comes to the PC's, because anything they have them do without option or input from the player can spark a host of "My character would never say/do that!" rants. Options and input mean dialogue trees and branching options and more work overall.

Overall, I'm a fan of companions hooking up. I like the idea that they're not sitting around waiting for you to notice them or forever alone if you romance someone else.

Yeah, I can't fault them either, but I also can't fault players who felt put off by it, you know? I think ultimately this is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't arguments. At the end of the day the devs have to decide which player experience is more important - the experience of a player who will flip out if they feel their PC is being railroaded, or the experience of a player who will feel shortchanged if they don't get what they see as an equitable amount of content to a developed npc/npc romance. It's almost impossible to please both groups. They also have to consider the number of people who will see any content they create and thus making it worth the work, and in the case of Dorian/Bull, far more players romanced neither of them than players who did, so it made sense to give them a lot of comparatively low-cost Trespasser content for background flavor. 

Ultimately it's a kind of futile to think about, imo. Companion romances aren't going anywhere and Bioware seems to be very cautious about perceived railroading re: the PC's actions and relationships. There'll probably be another mini-blowup in fandom over the next pairing, just like there is in every game. I imagine they may be a little more cautious in the future because of how negative some of the fandom's reaction was to Dorian/Bull, but I certainly wouldn't worry about npc romances being scrapped altogether.

Yes absolutely, but at least with IB and Dorian it's a player choice... if you don't keep them in your party at the same time then they don't become a couple. That's something at least.

Yeah that about sums it up for me, too!

I guess it sort of makes you feel like "your" pairing is not so special. I mean isn't this moment between my Lavellan and Bull supposed to be meaningful?? Yes I'm cursed with being a total romantic xD I like to think that my character and his LI were "meant for each other." So that even if I play a different character next time the LI never meets my character and so true love never happens. *hmph*

Hmph, tell me about it! I romanced Zevran... you know, the romance they NEVER BOTHERED TO FIX in DA2  Then I feel everyone got shafted in DAI in regards to DA2 romances since they couldn't be assed to include the LI with Hawke's appearance. (Only acceptable excuse imo is if one or more of the VAs refused to come back and record the five or so lines they'd need.) 

Bull better still be in a loving and committed relationship with my inquisitor come DA4 or so help me...