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Post by Artemis on Aug 29, 2016 6:25:48 GMT
I'm scared Artemis, Bull and Blackwall are possible dead states...we could be forgotten like Jacob and Thane were! D: Nooooo!  Sending prayers to the Maker, the Creators, and the Stone that they don't!!! It's even worse considering how some LI's can get married and others cannot. Between competition with other canons and being forgotten in the next game, romance is like playing Russian roulette with our hearts. D: At least with The Iron Bull you get to talk about marriage. My main romance is Josephine, whose romance is perfect for that, and you can't even bring the topic up in Trespasser. Yeah it seemed SUPER ARBITRARY who they decided got to get married and who didn't. Also, does Dorian return to Tevinter if he's romanced? Cause if so that's...... hmmm.... what is a nice way to say "total shit" lol
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Post by opuspace on Aug 29, 2016 9:19:09 GMT
At least with The Iron Bull you get to talk about marriage. My main romance is Josephine, whose romance is perfect for that, and you can't even bring the topic up in Trespasser. As for the LIs pairing up with each other, for me it isn't so much that I think my character and the LI are meant for each other that ruins it for me, but that the pairing between the LIs is usually portrayed as them being meant for each other that I can't bring myself to romance either since it feels like I'm destroying something. Hey, I feel your pain. My main romance never gets the option to discuss it either. It makes sense in a lot of ways, but darn it still stings. Especially since we can't talk about it with them! As for guilt about breaking up a pair, wouldn't the same be said about your Inquisitor and Josephine? Josie's clearly happy with your Quizzie, far more so than with Blackwall, so in the end, isn't it better to let the LI decide for themselves if they're happy with you or someone else? Relationships aren't perfect things, they're constantly shifting, evolving, needing care and attention like a living thing. But that's what's wonderful about them. It means that it's ok to be flawed, you and your partner will learn to adapt and become stronger together. Neither you nor they have to worry about missing out because you both make it work beautifully.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 29, 2016 14:11:04 GMT
Dorian does indeed go back to Tevinter if romanced. However, they do at least have a slide that says that his romance is rumoured to be seen on the streets of Minrathous, sneaking into the heart of Tevinter to aid his Amatus. I have never really accepted why my Lavellan couldn't just go with him, considering he disbanded the Inquisition. Unlike Bull, people would probably just think he was Dorian's slave. However, I have to admit that he has his own things that he needed to do, like attending the next Arlathvhen, so I can accept they are both doing their own thing in between meeting up together.
The thing I found most annoying was when someone tweeted PW about the sending crystal, asking if he gives one to Bull as well and apparently the answer was yes. Now Dorian gives this to the Inquisitor whether they are lover or BFF and in the latter case makes a big deal out of the fact that you are his only true friend. Then the epilogue slides state that he seems to get the strength to continue his fight in Tevinter because of the support of his friend at the end of the crystal. Now the game doesn't suggest that Bull has a crystal, only PW himself, so it seems to me he is the one who is devaluing the significance of the crystal. Which is why I feel he was behind making such a big deal out of the Bull/Dorian pairing in Trespasser, to the extent that it seemed to devalue the Inquisitor/companion alternative.
I don't think the writers always appreciate how things might impact on the player. Take the marriage "joke" between Varric and Cassandra. That was really mean on the players who actually don't get to mention it, much less have an actual ceremony. However, to a Solas romance it was downright cruel. I was quite happy going into Trespasser the way things were between me and Dorian, because I'd been given to understand that there wouldn't be any marriages in game. Then they got my hopes up, only to dash them with a leaving party! Still he did say he loved me and I took him saying "there will always be an us" to be the equivalent of a wedding vow.
What happens with Bull? Does he actually agree to get married if you ask in the right way, even if you don't get a ceremony? The reason I ask is that it seemed to me that male PCs get the short stick where marriage is concerned. So far as I am aware, the nearest they get is Josie introducing them to her parents.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 29, 2016 19:35:04 GMT
At least with The Iron Bull you get to talk about marriage. My main romance is Josephine, whose romance is perfect for that, and you can't even bring the topic up in Trespasser. Yeah it seemed SUPER ARBITRARY who they decided got to get married and who didn't. Also, does Dorian return to Tevinter if he's romanced? Cause if so that's...... hmmm.... what is a nice way to say "total shit" lol Well, yes and no. It seems super arbitrary who they decided could talk about it, but I think I know exactly why they chose who they did to actually have it. Cullen is obvious since he has had a huge following since Origins, and Sera I swear is because that DLC came out shortly after same-sex marriage became legal in the US so Bioware was showing how progressive they were. And yes, regardless of if in a romance or not Dorian goes back to Tevinter without the Inquisitor. Hey, I feel your pain. My main romance never gets the option to discuss it either. It makes sense in a lot of ways, but darn it still stings. Especially since we can't talk about it with them! As for guilt about breaking up a pair, wouldn't the same be said about your Inquisitor and Josephine? Josie's clearly happy with your Quizzie, far more so than with Blackwall, so in the end, isn't it better to let the LI decide for themselves if they're happy with you or someone else? Relationships aren't perfect things, they're constantly shifting, evolving, needing care and attention like a living thing. But that's what's wonderful about them. It means that it's ok to be flawed, you and your partner will learn to adapt and become stronger together. Neither you nor they have to worry about missing out because you both make it work beautifully. I'm sorry.  And yeah, I understand not actually having a ceremony like they did with Cullen and Sera for some of them, like Josephine would want to wait and plan it so her family can be there and stuff. But the fact you don't even get to mention it stinks. Who was your LI? The thing with Josephine and Rainier doesn't hit me since they never go anywhere with it due to the difference in stations. The closest they ever get is giving tokens of affection, instead of getting sexually intimate or even just so much as a kiss or hug. Even then, I was apprehensive until it was confirmed by the devs that they never become a couple. Plus in most of my playthroughs Rainier is left to rot in prison while he awaits the hangman's noose anyway. Not because of the romance, but because he is a monster who butchered an innocent family and left his men to take the fall for him.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 29, 2016 19:38:19 GMT
I don't think the writers always appreciate how things might impact on the player. Take the marriage "joke" between Varric and Cassandra. That was really mean on the players who actually don't get to mention it, much less have an actual ceremony. However, to a Solas romance it was downright cruel. I was quite happy going into Trespasser the way things were between me and Dorian, because I'd been given to understand that there wouldn't be any marriages in game. Then they got my hopes up, only to dash them with a leaving party! Still he did say he loved me and I took him saying "there will always be an us" to be the equivalent of a wedding vow. What happens with Bull? Does he actually agree to get married if you ask in the right way, even if you don't get a ceremony? The reason I ask is that it seemed to me that male PCs get the short stick where marriage is concerned. So far as I am aware, the nearest they get is Josie introducing them to her parents. I agree entirely. I absolutely hate the joke Varric does in Trespasser, and felt like Bioware rubbing salt in the wound. As for Bull, here is what happens:
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Post by Artemis on Aug 29, 2016 20:14:38 GMT
To me there's just too much variance in how the romances were handled. I mean if you're going to gender-gate and race-gate these romances, then at least make them equal. You're already locked out of certain romances and have to watch others freely enjoy them, but now they get to marry those LIs while you're left twiddling your thumbs lol It's like, so Cullen and the inquisitor marry, live happily ever after, get a fucking dog for chrissakes!! But Dorian and the inquisitor live separately and occasionally Skype lol Okay. Fine.
Only exception is obviously the Solasmance; that one had to be unique. (Which is why it should've been available to all...)
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by blastoandbubin on Aug 29, 2016 20:28:10 GMT
I don't think the writers always appreciate how things might impact on the player. Take the marriage "joke" between Varric and Cassandra. That was really mean on the players who actually don't get to mention it, much less have an actual ceremony. However, to a Solas romance it was downright cruel. I was quite happy going into Trespasser the way things were between me and Dorian, because I'd been given to understand that there wouldn't be any marriages in game. Then they got my hopes up, only to dash them with a leaving party! Still he did say he loved me and I took him saying "there will always be an us" to be the equivalent of a wedding vow. What happens with Bull? Does he actually agree to get married if you ask in the right way, even if you don't get a ceremony? The reason I ask is that it seemed to me that male PCs get the short stick where marriage is concerned. So far as I am aware, the nearest they get is Josie introducing them to her parents. I agree entirely. I absolutely hate the joke Varric does in Trespasser, and felt like Bioware rubbing salt in the wound. As for Bull, here is what happens: lol, I actually really like Bull's answer here, but this is such classic Bioware. "I'll talk to you later." So romantic  . That really should have been a cutscene, imo, there's no way to not end that (rather serious) conversation awkwardly in regular dialogue. I kind of think Bioware thought that the only people who would care about getting marriage options were female players, and they knew most female players romanced Cullen (well, and Solas but obviously marriage with him was never happening), so... And I truly think Sera got an onscreen marriage or her ship with Dagna because Bioware got a lot of heat over how she was portrayed or treated in the base game. A lot of her Trespasser content felt like a 'please don't yell at us anymore' kind of thing. I love Sera so I was pretty happy about it, lol, but that was the vibe I had.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 29, 2016 23:04:53 GMT
I'm sorry.  And yeah, I understand not actually having a ceremony like they did with Cullen and Sera for some of them, like Josephine would want to wait and plan it so her family can be there and stuff. But the fact you don't even get to mention it stinks. Who was your LI? The thing with Josephine and Rainier doesn't hit me since they never go anywhere with it due to the difference in stations. The closest they ever get is giving tokens of affection, instead of getting sexually intimate or even just so much as a kiss or hug. Even then, I was apprehensive until it was confirmed by the devs that they never become a couple. Plus in most of my playthroughs Rainier is left to rot in prison while he awaits the hangman's noose anyway. Not because of the romance, but because he is a monster who butchered an innocent family and left his men to take the fall for him. I think it's best we save that discussion for a more relevant thread so we don't hijack the Bull love. I apppreciate the commiseration, and hope that you won't be balked because of a possible alternate timeline. After all, who's to say a LI can't be happy with the PC just as much as another?
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 30, 2016 13:54:56 GMT
I was major dissapointed of how BioWare treated entire Qun in Inquistion. Not to mention in Trespasser. Ending where Iron Bull betrays Inquistor if he is Qun follower didn't make much sense to me. Inquisition already allowed Bull to be spy from Qunari side, so he should have discussed with Viddasala about how Inquisitior for last two years had none contact from Solas. Meaning entire hostility from Viddasala is useless. I expected romanced pro-Qun Bull to at least try to discuss this with her, not go "Well, ok. You don't have point but I will attack Inquisitor for you." I liked to make Iron Bull to be true to his people, but before Trespasser I expected from Quanri to be trustable and straight. However Viddasalla ruined it for me. Not to mention for Iron Bull, he already was kinda rogue. If he was romanced why he didn't go rogue right over there where Vidassala made him sure that she don't listen to his raports. Because I don't believe Iron Bull of being incompetent enough to not notice that Solas dissapeared without word.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 30, 2016 16:29:37 GMT
I was major dissapointed of how BioWare treated entire Qun in Inquistion. Not to mention in Trespasser. Ending where Iron Bull betrays Inquistor if he is Qun follower didn't make much sense to me. Inquisition already allowed Bull to be spy from Qunari side, so he should have discussed with Viddasala about how Inquisitior for last two years had none contact from Solas. Meaning entire hostility from Viddasala is useless. I expected romanced pro-Qun Bull to at least try to discuss this with her, not go "Well, ok. You don't have point but I will attack Inquisitor for you." I liked to make Iron Bull to be true to his people, but before Trespasser I expected from Quanri to be trustable and straight. However Viddasalla ruined it for me. Not to mention for Iron Bull, he already was kinda rogue. If he was romanced why he didn't go rogue right over there where Vidassala made him sure that she don't listen to his raports. Because I don't believe Iron Bull of being incompetent enough to not notice that Solas dissapeared without word. The downside of organizations that are controlling like the Qun, Chantry, any military is that they don't encourage challenging the status quo, not even harmless questions about a rule because that would mean more questions about other, more problematic areas and that would mean more thinking, more thinking means defiance is more likely, and that would undermine the unity they all are trying to maintain to remain an effective force against enemies. Bull was teetering when he was assigned to become a mercenary because of his PTSD on Seheron. His personal mission will push him either to retreat into the comfort of not having to think for himself and deal with all that stress by embracing the Qun or he will have to face separation from the institution that defined his life and hopefully fall into a safety net of emotional connection with the Chargers. Either way, Bull is psychologically dependent upon a collective network for emotional support. He really cannot just lone wolf it nor should he. One person like the Inquisitor, is not enough of a source of stability, even if they're a lover since if they break up, Bull will be alone. Heck, human beings are usually not found without having at least someone in their lives to connect to. As for the Viddasala betraying the Inquisition, it's not really a betrayal to them. Their loyalty is first and foremost to the Qun, not to people who say they're allies of the Qun but do things that violate the rules sanctioned by the Qun. Did I mention the Qun means everything to them? Their goal is to bring outsiders into the Qun because their self destructive habits are a threat to themselves and others so it's kinda like a crusade of sorts? If that requires conquering nations to "save" them, then Viddasala's actions make sense.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 30, 2016 18:35:55 GMT
I don't think anyone ever suggested that the Qun are totally trustable and safe. Fenris and Bull say that the peace accord is only holding because the Qunari are biding their time but they will eventually attack again. The whole business with the Arishok was typical. If he had succeeded in taking over Kirkwall, then the leadership would have supported him but because he failed, they could deny any involvement. The same was true of the Viddasala. The only bit where she exceeded her remit is when she started filling the Saarebas full of lyrium but even them, as I understand it, she was researching a way to strengthen the Veil, so had that succeeded she would have been in the clear. The rest of the plan concerning the takeover of the south was fully endorsed by the leadership right up until the point when it failed. Then once again, they disowned her and tried to mend things with the Divine. They even have the cheek to ask her to support them against Tevinter.
As for Bull, well both he and the Viddasala work for the Ben'Hassrath and if I understand it right, she would outrank him, so under the rule of the Qun, he obeys her without question. That's why he says it is nothing personal. He is just following orders. Just as he did when you ordered him to let his friends in the Chargers die. He'd known ones like Krem for nearly ten years and yet he did as he was told with them. I'm sure he loved Krem like a brother, just as they do in the Qun. Why should he be any different with the Inquisitor, when he's only known them for about a third of the time?
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Andraste_Reborn
N4
  
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Aug 31, 2016 5:07:09 GMT
I don't think anyone ever suggested that the Qun are totally trustable and safe. Fenris and Bull say that the peace accord is only holding because the Qunari are biding their time but they will eventually attack again. Sten also said this, all the way back in DAO: Alistair: So I suppose once I'm actually king I could end up in negotiations with the Qunari one day. Sten: My people do not negotiate. Alistair: What do you mean? They negotiated a peace treaty after the war, and as far as I know they've kept to its terms. Sten: They signed a piece of paper. But only because they knew that you believed in it. Alistair: And what is the difference between that and negotiating? Sten: They stopped fighting for their own reasons. And they will resume it again, one day. The agreement means nothing to them. Alistair: But I thought you said your people believed in honor. Sten: They do. The honor of the Qunari is what will bring our warships back to your shores. Pretty much every Qunari we can speak to acknowledges that Qunari don't consider any agreement with bas binding. The agreement between the Inquisition and the Qun carries about as much weight for them as the Llomeryn Accords, i.e. none.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 19:15:56 GMT
I'm super glad I always knew that Talvashoth Iron Bull was the only correct option for Romancing purposes. I only ever made the deal with the qun once to see what all the fuss was about. Lets just say I was super disappointed that you lose out on interactions with the Chargers for even more stupid war table quests. I really dislike the war table quests.  I feel like people pushing "consequences of our choices" is the only reason why Iron Bull goes off the deep end in those world states though. I mean it does make sense in a certain light, but still it wasn't handled very well. Those inquisitors should have had a chance to at least try to talk him out of betraying him/her.
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Post by Zemgus on Aug 31, 2016 19:59:20 GMT
I'm super glad I always knew that Talvashoth Iron Bull was the only correct option for Romancing purposes. I only ever made the deal with the qun once to see what all the fuss was about. Lets just say I was super disappointed that you lose out on interactions with the Chargers for even more stupid war table quests. I really dislike the war table quests. I feel like people pushing "consequences of our choices" is the only reason why Iron Bull goes off the deep end in those world states though. I mean it does make sense in a certain light, but still it wasn't handled very well. Those inquisitors should have had a chance to at least try to talk him out of betraying him/her. I liked Iron Bulls betrayal and how it was handled (and I love the war table quests! I think the quests you get from siding with the Qun are much more interesting than keeping the Chargers around  ) When he turns around and says his line ('nothing personal, bas') you don't even have time to say anything before he attacks. I guess that was on purpose on his part. There is no emotion to him when he betrays the Inquisitor and I think that was most telling. Choices should always have consequences. It makes perfect sense that IB betrays the Inquisitor if he's loyal to the Qun. He sacrificed the Chargers because the Qun demanded it so when the Qun demands that the Inquisitor should die he obeys. Solas said that 'you among the Qun have been taught not to think' and that 'as a mindless soulless drone you could never make any decisions.' That pretty much describes Qun!Bull and why he obeys Viddasala. It's not his place to think or question her orders.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 31, 2016 20:14:41 GMT
I'm super glad I always knew that Talvashoth Iron Bull was the only correct option for Romancing purposes. I only ever made the deal with the qun once to see what all the fuss was about. Lets just say I was super disappointed that you lose out on interactions with the Chargers for even more stupid war table quests. I really dislike the war table quests. I feel like people pushing "consequences of our choices" is the only reason why Iron Bull goes off the deep end in those world states though. I mean it does make sense in a certain light, but still it wasn't handled very well. Those inquisitors should have had a chance to at least try to talk him out of betraying him/her. I liked Iron Bulls betrayal and how it was handled (and I love the war table quests! I think the quests you get from siding with the Qun are much more interesting than keeping the Chargers around  ) When he turns around and says his line ('nothing personal, bas') you don't even have time to say anything before he attacks. I guess that was on purpose on his part. There is no emotion to him when he betrays the Inquisitor and I think that was most telling. Choices should always have consequences. It makes perfect sense that IB betrays the Inquisitor if he's loyal to the Qun. He sacrificed the Chargers because the Qun demanded it so when the Qun demands that the Inquisitor should die he obeys. Solas said that 'you among the Qun have been taught not to think' and that 'as a mindless soulless drone you could never make any decisions.' That pretty much describes Qun!Bull and why he obeys Viddasala. It's not his place to think or question her orders. This is logical. That is why I like to hijack him from the qun, and keep him in "my" world.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 20:16:04 GMT
I don't want to go off topic, but the war table quests for me seems to be an excuse to talk about some of my favorite characters instead of actually getting to interact with them. I see the appeal for some people, but honestly BioWare games sometimes feel like a book more then a game. Far too much of the story is told to us, and never shown to us. -shrug- Different tastes for different people though. That being said, like I said it makes sense how it played out, but it wasn't very satisfying for a lot of the qunBull Romancers. I'm glad I'm not in that party.
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 31, 2016 22:18:02 GMT
Well me towards Qun in general ... I understood it in Dragon Age II. I was not amused by Arishok. I was sorry for him, because I clearly see from his expressions that he never wanted to duel mine Hawke. I have always earn respect from Arishok by speeches alone. Sten in Origins was just .. weak written to say the least. I do not understand him at all. His version .. sketches of Qun made no sense at all to me. Not to mention that he looked like oversized human too.
About Iron Bull again ... I mean he was the spy. Mine Inquisition did nothing AGAINST Qun in general. From point they were allied to Qun due to Bull mission, mine Inquisitor was always loyal to this alliance. Then in Trespasser Viddasala came and she says I betrayed her ! Inquisition did not kill any Qunari, don't smear on Qun etc. I didn't execute Bull or anything like that, neither I was sabotaging his work as spy. If Bull was so great spy then why wouldn't he write down to Viddasala that Inquisitor and Solas have none contact after end of Corypheus, Inquisition is blind in case of elven spies who spy for Solas as well as what Solas do now. If anybody betrayed this alliance it was not mine Inquisitor only Ben-Hassarath because I have none idea whether this damn Sten was knowing what Viddasala do or not. And Qun Iron Bull .. we had unhappy qunari workers in Viddasala to work around Ataashi. Even they were questionating if Viddasala really follows Qun. If they can then why not Iron Bull right over there where Viddasala makes clear message "I don't care if Inquisitor is innocent, kill them !", qunari were supposed to believe that death is useless ...
So I had to repeat whole part, even if I believe Iron Bull should be connected to his people in Qun some way the Trespasser made it just like ME 3 Morinth saving - unworthy.
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Post by Zemgus on Aug 31, 2016 23:28:53 GMT
About Iron Bull again ... I mean he was the spy. Mine Inquisition did nothing AGAINST Qun in general. From point they were allied to Qun due to Bull mission, mine Inquisitor was always loyal to this alliance. Then in Trespasser Viddasala came and she says I betrayed her ! Inquisition did not kill any Qunari, don't smear on Qun etc. I didn't execute Bull or anything like that, neither I was sabotaging his work as spy. If Bull was so great spy then why wouldn't he write down to Viddasala that Inquisitor and Solas have none contact after end of Corypheus, Inquisition is blind in case of elven spies who spy for Solas as well as what Solas do now. If anybody betrayed this alliance it was not mine Inquisitor only Ben-Hassarath because I have none idea whether this damn Sten was knowing what Viddasala do or not. And Qun Iron Bull .. we had unhappy qunari workers in Viddasala to work around Ataashi. Even they were questionating if Viddasala really follows Qun. If they can then why not Iron Bull right over there where Viddasala makes clear message "I don't care if Inquisitor is innocent, kill them !", qunari were supposed to believe that death is useless ... You have to remember that Bull was re-educated at least once (and maybe again after the events of his personal quest). So when Solas says 'soulless, mindless drone' he really is spot on. Hissrad doesn't care if Viddasala is right or not - he just does what he is told. His spirit is broken. At least that's how I see it. Qunari may believe that death is useless but they also believe that some people (like mages) are hopeless by default. So if they believe Inquisitor is hopeless because of the mark and/or are working for Fen'Harel then what other fate could they have in store for them except death? They were already going to kill him anyway, with their Dragon's Breath plan. Funny to think how many great opportunities Hissrad had to kill the Inquisitor before that though (especially if in romance)... but he only did it when ordered to. Seems like it was planned for sometime "Hissrad! Now, please." Her tone made it sound like she wasn't sure if he was going to obey - though he seemed quite wiling to do so, no hesitation at all. For the Qunari useless means someone who cannot or will not serve the Qun. If someone is deemed useless they are either killed or qamek is used to turn them into mindless slaves. Clearly since they were going to kill the Inquisitor they either saw him as a threat or someone entirely useless... Bull calls him 'bas', a thing. No respect for 'basalit-an' or 'kadan' so I guess that shows how little the Qunari actually think of those who don't follow the Qun.
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Post by noname55rr on Sept 1, 2016 11:14:42 GMT
Zemgus - I don't know. I actully founded it so .. poorly rethought by BioWare. Like it was rushed decision in the first place to make Qunari a main enemy in Trespasser. If there would be anything worthy from this scene of betrayal alone, I would leave it. But I expected at least some exchange on line Viddasala - Hissrad. I mean Viddasala seem to be unsure about how he behave. Then why not quick exchange of words from Bull here ? If Viddasala questioned true loyalty of Bull to Qun even after Chargers deaths then she surely should have some reasons to. Why BioWare wasted this potetntial of showing some depth of Qun Hissarad ? Some personality traits ? Never do Qun Bull again. That's sure.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 1, 2016 16:07:50 GMT
The only time I allied with the Qun, I couldn't complete the main game because I really didn't like the Inquisitor I had created who would do that, so I never even had to experience the betrayal. In fact I've only ever seen it on You Tube.
None of my Inquisitors could bring themselves to sacrifice the Chargers, who they knew, for the sake of an alliance with an organisation they despised. We'd sunk the red lyrium shipment, which was the main purpose of the joint venture up to that point, so we saved our team. They also wanted to save Bull from the Qun because he seemed like a nice guy and didn't deserve to be in their clutches any more. If I had been romancing him, I'd definitely would have had no hesitation in telling him to save the Chargers.
Then in Trespasser the Viddasala turns on you regardless of what you did in the main game, so I felt thoroughly vindicated in shafting them first. If they have a decision in the next game where you have to decide whether to side with Tevinter or the Qun, it is definitely going to be no contest. For me it is like BG2 and the decision of whether to side with Shadow Thieves or Vampires. I didn't like the Shadow Thieves but I sure as hell wasn't going to side with vampires.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 1, 2016 20:43:11 GMT
Other than the one playthrough where I romanced The Iron Bull, I have always sided with the Qun when it comes to the choice between the dreadnought and the Chargers. The reason is simply because you save a lot more lives sacrificing the Chargers than saving them. There are the dozens of soldiers on the ship, half of Denerim you save from a Venatori fire attack, Fereldens and Orlesians you save from Venatori spies and assassins by destroying that group. Meanwhile the Chargers are only half a dozen people, and while we did meet them I felt no attachment to them.
Then Trespasser came out, and I get yet another reason I like the choice: killing Hissrad. Not simply because I really didn't like him, but in fact you actually grant his wish. He mentions that when the stress on Seheron got to him he wanted to die but nobody there deserved the honor and pleasure of him being killed by. In Trespasser, he meets that person: you. You are Basalit-an, a person worthy of respect, and he gets defeated by you, granting him a warrior's death at the hands of someone he sees worthy.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 1, 2016 20:44:41 GMT
Then in Trespasser the Viddasala turns on you regardless of what you did in the main game, so I felt thoroughly vindicated in shafting them first. If they have a decision in the next game where you have to decide whether to side with Tevinter or the Qun, it is definitely going to be no contest. For me it is like BG2 and the decision of whether to side with Shadow Thieves or Vampires. I didn't like the Shadow Thieves but I sure as hell wasn't going to side with vampires. I hope we aren't forced to side with either one. I hate the institution of both the Tevinter Imperium and the Qun. I'd rather side with neither and bring both down, since both are just objectivelyu abhorrent.
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Post by Zemgus on Sept 1, 2016 21:04:05 GMT
Then Trespasser came out, and I get yet another reason I like the choice: killing Hissrad. Not simply because I really didn't like him, but in fact you actually grant his wish. He mentions that when the stress on Seheron got to him he wanted to die but nobody there deserved the honor and pleasure of him being killed by. In Trespasser, he meets that person: you. You are Basalit-an, a person worthy of respect, and he gets defeated by you, granting him a warrior's death at the hands of someone he sees worthy. He didn't really seem to respect you, though, when he calls you 'bas' instead of 'basalit-an' or 'kadan.' I wonder what went through his head when he attacked the Inquisitor. Maybe nothing. I mean he knew better anyone what the Inquisitor was capable of and must have known they could not win. If he had cared about the Dragon's Breath plan or anything at all he should have warned Viddasala and try to take out the Inquisitor before, in a surprise attack, a quick dagger to slit their throat or something like that.
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Post by opuspace on Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
Then in Trespasser the Viddasala turns on you regardless of what you did in the main game, so I felt thoroughly vindicated in shafting them first. If they have a decision in the next game where you have to decide whether to side with Tevinter or the Qun, it is definitely going to be no contest. For me it is like BG2 and the decision of whether to side with Shadow Thieves or Vampires. I didn't like the Shadow Thieves but I sure as hell wasn't going to side with vampires. I hope we aren't forced to side with either one. I hate the institution of both the Tevinter Imperium and the Qun. I'd rather side with neither and bring both down, since both are just objectivelyu abhorrent. The Chantry is right up there in how they selectively treat other races. I'd rather reform the government instead of bringing it down on innocent bystanders who have no choice about living under those conditions. As for Bull's wish, I don't think he ever had a death wish. He's quite fine if he's Tal-Vashoth and I believe more people are helped by him and the Chargers instead of saving Qun soldiers who are just going to receive more orders to kill people instead of saving them.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 2, 2016 19:00:20 GMT
The Chantry is right up there in how they selectively treat other races. I'd rather reform the government instead of bringing it down on innocent bystanders who have no choice about living under those conditions. As for Bull's wish, I don't think he ever had a death wish. He's quite fine if he's Tal-Vashoth and I believe more people are helped by him and the Chargers instead of saving Qun soldiers who are just going to receive more orders to kill people instead of saving them. I disagree emphatically. Yes the Chantry has issues, but it is nowhere close to what the Imperium and the Qun do. For starters, they don't enslave people. Regardless, I didn't mean bring down in the sense of everything destroyed, but more just the old system is completely changed from the ground up. For example since you mentioned the Chantry, what Leliana does to it I would like something comparable to be options to both the Imperium and the Qun. We know he did. He explicitly tells us he did in a conversation. It was because of that he was going to send himself to be reeducated but instead his superiors sent him to be The Iron Bull. You can believe what you want, but the facts are with me. In the events of Inquisition, vastly more people are saved by siding with the Qun compared to siding with the Chargers.
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