Iron Bull romance thread

That's fine then, making changes to the government without literally smashing it to pieces. But something like the Chantry is really not much better with their discrimination in the ranks of the faithful, their selective treatment of mages in the Circles according to their family's class, their Exalted Marches and the maintenance of poverty levels on the city elves while they turn a blind eye to the abuse. Even explicitly laying down laws to enable mistreating elves. They and Tevinter were portrayed as mirror images for a reason.
Could you bring up a quote where Bull says he wanted to die? My memory's fuzzy. All I can recall is that he said he couldn't think of a reason to keep doing his job. He was more worried about hurting others and that's why he went to the reeducators.
And as for saving lives, it's not just about numbers. For example, would you save 300 war criminals or a dozen morally grounded soldiers who would pick and choose to save people without a government forcing them to commit atrocities? Trespasser's epilogue does have the Chargers saving people whereas the Qun's just gearing up for war because...beliefs!

In terms of the number of people that are saved by taking either side, I'd say it was about equal. You have to remember that the Chargers amount to more than the inner circle we meet. It is a proper mercenary band and get involved in a lot of activities post Cory, particularly mopping up stray Venatori, as well as those we involved them in during the game.

As for Hissrad not warning the Viddasala being a final subconscious act of rebellion, that could be true. I just think that losing the Chargers broke his spirit. It might have seemed like he was the same Iron Bull on the Qunari run but it was genuinely just an act; he was now just the tool of whoever controlled him in the Qun and that is why Cole cannot feel any emotion from him.

I would opt for Tevinter over the Qun for the same reason that Solas would; a slave can still dream of freedom in Tevinter but the Qun deny them even that. However, I wouldn't be happy about siding with Tevinter without getting something tangible in return, like freedom for the slaves, it is just I doubt the writers would allow that. That's why I compared it to the decision in BG2 because both sides were a compromise of my principles but evil shadow thieves who manipulated and killed people just seemed that bit better than vampires who could dominate them with mind control and then make them do anything they wanted them to. (I actually think the parallels are quite close).

If that tactics game ever materialises, then I imagine siding with one or the other would likely be the option.

I agree that Bull being free from the Qun makes it a better ending in Trespasser. If he's romanced, not only does he travel around with the Chargers, he always wears the dragon tooth necklace to keep his kadan close.

However, if Bull is romanced and still loyal to the Qun, the ending shows the Inquisitor being mocked and humiliated.

I kind of liked the romanced Qun ending. Gave my dwarf something to bond over with Celene, if Celene hadn't been dead that is. At least it gave her more sympathy for players of the Game who made the "error" to fall for the "wrong person".
Could have seen a similar thing happening if there was a "closest friend" dynamic, as in if the game could see if the player genuinely liked and trusted Bull and was not just feeding him the lines he wanted to hear. But the romance aspect is always more juicy for the nasty gossips.
But then again, I like it when the game is cruel.

I'm about to start a DA:I playthrough. Thinking about making a making a Tal-Vashoth mage. Pretty much a big middle finger to the Qun and the Chantry. Not sure if I want to romance Bull or not. I usually leave him alone as I think he and Dorain are just too cute, but still debating how I am going to play this one.

Good point. While the scandal against Dorian is a big deal in Tevinter, it won't be as much for the rest of Thedas. They'll be like, "Oh, that's typical of Tevinter. Let's move on to other things.."

As for the Inquisitor, everyone's going to be talking about him/her, because he/she was the Herald and great hero of Thedas. They'll remember the Inquisitor more than Dorian. It's like this in media (and they're biased) where if something happens in the States or Europe, everyone's talking about it on TV, radio, newspaper and all over social media. If it happens in other places, there's little coverage.

Yes, Cole would've known. But if he was made more human, he wouldn't be able to read people's minds. I thought about the grudge theory on the way Bull reacts after the Chargers died. He slams his fist against the wall when no one's looking. Also, whenever he greets the Inquisitor in the tavern, instead of saying, "Hey boss, how's it going?" he flatly says, "Yes?" To me, that shows something's up with him.

Lee Approves plus 20

I can. It is objectively smarter to save the Qun than to save the Chargers. You objectively save more lives and do more damage to your enemy. 

Last I checked, the alliance went off without a hitch. They allied with us to stop Corypheus, and we did that thus the alliance was fulfilled. Never in that time did they turn against us.
I don't support the Qun's actions in Trespasser, but I don't see what they did as a betrayal. No more so than say the Soviet Union becoming an enemy of the Allies after the defeat of the Axis Nations. 

What is it about then? Our mission is to save Thedas from Corypheus. What is more important than saving as many people as possible?
Also, by your logic you can't use the 'betrayal' in Trespasser as evidence against the alliance since as you said at the moment you do not know this.