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Post by spacebeetle on Jan 26, 2017 22:29:40 GMT
So what does he Salarian say in this trailer? 'They have us pinned against the ......?' skirt? skourt? Scourge, I think. Which I suppose is the name of the black (Remnant) construct Kett are feeding Habitat 7 to. Edit- nijad. Anyway: after the new trailer: I think I'll keep my hopes and despair at bay until we have a decent gameplay trailer. This one, as far I'm concerned, is a beautiful eye candy. I would like a reveal on the game structure and combat, but I can do for a while with a Drack only appraisal. You don’t mess with a Krogan, nor with a crew that has a Krogan… Presenting him to the Andromeda aliens will be hilarious: “I’m the Pathfinder. And they are Peebe, Cora, Vetra and Liam.” “And him?” “He’s our army. Btw, do you have a Maw to ride? He becomes quite melancholic without a monster to ride.”
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Post by maxon on Jan 26, 2017 22:29:54 GMT
Just seen it (late to party). That was .... a bit Star Trek.
Still I like ST about 50% of the time so that should be ok. Nice visuals. And Cora and Liam - ok I guess. I'm sure some people will love them and I'm sure I'll get used to them.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 26, 2017 22:32:58 GMT
From a development standpoint its probably way too late to add weapons on the Tempest unless they are always going to be there somehow. But regardless, two of the situations we saw in the trailer the Tempest was grinding up against something in incredibly tight quarters. If the Tempest had a 'main gun' and fired it they would have broke their ship. If they fired on the Kett (even the small ships) The Archon would have wiped them out without a second thought and probably wouldn't have done them the courtesy of calling first. Given it's not a gameplay thing, I don't think that's true. Hell you might not even need to change the model, just the description/codex. Then animate some beams/missiles using clevel camera angles. Unless they really did base their entire story on this one idiotic point, in which case nothing we discuss here will save it. And you're assuming a "main gun" presumably forward mounted... why? I think a smaller turret mount would be more practical, especially if we're thinking about ground support. And hey, maybe they could've used it to slice through the space webbing or whatever that was.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 26, 2017 22:34:31 GMT
From a development standpoint its probably way too late to add weapons on the Tempest unless they are always going to be there somehow. But regardless, two of the situations we saw in the trailer the Tempest was grinding up against something in incredibly tight quarters. If the Tempest had a 'main gun' and fired it they would have broke their ship. If they fired on the Kett (even the small ships) The Archon would have wiped them out without a second thought and probably wouldn't have done them the courtesy of calling first. Given it's not a gameplay thing, I don't think that's true. Hell you might not even need to change the model, just the description/codex. Then animate some beams/missiles using clevel camera angles. Unless they really did base their entire story on this one idiotic point, in which case nothing we discuss here will save it. And you're assuming a "main gun" presumably forward mounted... why? I think a smaller turret mount would be more practical, especially if we're thinking about ground support. And hey, maybe they could've used it to slice through the space webbing or whatever that was. Ok that kind of answers points one and two but the Archon still would have swatted us like a fly.
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 26, 2017 22:34:44 GMT
From a development standpoint its probably way too late to add weapons on the Tempest unless they are always going to be there somehow. But regardless, two of the situations we saw in the trailer the Tempest was grinding up against something in incredibly tight quarters. If the Tempest had a 'main gun' and fired it they would have broke their ship. If they fired on the Kett (even the small ships) The Archon would have wiped them out without a second thought and probably wouldn't have done them the courtesy of calling first. Given it's not a gameplay thing, I don't think that's true. Hell you might not even need to change the model, just the description/codex. Then animate some beams/missiles using clevel camera angles. Unless they really did base their entire story on this one idiotic point, in which case nothing we discuss here will save it. And you're assuming a "main gun" presumably forward mounted... why? I think a smaller turret mount would be more practical, especially if we're thinking about ground support. And hey, maybe they could've used it to slice through the space webbing or whatever that was. I thought it before, and I'm pretty sure at this point, that the story was designed around that point. Which gives me hope they'll understand they were wrong given what happens in the game.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 22:36:44 GMT
Given it's not a gameplay thing, I don't think that's true. Hell you might not even need to change the model, just the description/codex. Then animate some beams/missiles using clevel camera angles. So, redo all the cutscenes featuring the ship? Maybe the early 'unfriendly' encounter motivates them to put some guns on their explorer's vessel; so it's a quest to install a gun and get it working?
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Post by kumazan on Jan 26, 2017 22:38:41 GMT
Yay, another thread hijacked by an argument that has been going on in circles since forever!
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Post by napoleon on Jan 26, 2017 22:43:10 GMT
Sorry to hear that, though it shouldn't be a surprise that it isn't going to please anyone, nor wipe all negative sentiment. A statement like that is almost like saying people aren't allowed an opinion of the game that isn't hype. I'm genuinely interested as to what it is in the trailer you don't like? A few things. The tone that they went with this trailer is a bit offputing, making it seem more like a cheesy action film than I would like. Not saying those aren't good, just not what I was hoping for with this. Then there was certain scenes that validated some of my worries. And other scenes made me a bit nervous and uncomfortable, like the part that is part of Cora's and Scott's romance scene. There were good things in the trailer too, like I like the Angarans, but more was negative than positive. Sex makes you nervous and uncomfortable?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 22:43:20 GMT
I love how it ends in the "I've been waiting 600 years for this." I feel that I did too! Finally home... ah, Briefing is the next!
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 26, 2017 22:45:27 GMT
Ok that kind of answers points one and two but the Archon still would have swatted us like a fly. So why didn't he? You're essentially saying that firing a weapon would anger him or in any provoke a response on his part. Which means you're making an assertion about the motives/reactions of an alien we know nothing about. He's already threatening us. But does that mean what we think it means? It's pointless to speculate on that at this stage. What is neither pointless nor speculation is that a weapon presents options. Maybe not options in the immediate future, or options that are clearly the correct path to victory. But options nonetheless, and ones that absolutely will be vital that we have. So, redo all the cutscenes featuring the ship? Maybe the early 'unfriendly' encounter motivates them to put some guns on their explorer's vessel; so it's a quest to install a gun and get it working? Depends where they want the beams coming out of. The massive stupidity isn't just about not having them- it's about no one apparently thinking we might need them they're a reasonable and frankly baseline precaution. Getting them ingame later only solves half the problem. I still want to know what moron thought it'd be a good idea to leave without them, what other moron put them in charge and what the rest of the morons who went along with it were doing at the time? Because thinking sure doesn't seem to be an option.
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 26, 2017 22:47:49 GMT
Ok that kind of answers points one and two but the Archon still would have swatted us like a fly. So why didn't he? You're essentially saying that firing a weapon would anger him or in any provoke a response on his part. Which means you're making an assertion about the motives/reactions of an alien we know nothing about. He's already threatening us. But does that mean what we think it means? It's pointless to speculate on that at this stage. What is neither pointless nor speculation is that a weapon presents options. Maybe not options in the immediate future, or options that are clearly the correct path to victory. But options nonetheless, and ones that absolutely will be vital that we have. So, redo all the cutscenes featuring the ship? Maybe the early 'unfriendly' encounter motivates them to put some guns on their explorer's vessel; so it's a quest to install a gun and get it working? Depends where they want the beams coming out of. The massive stupidity isn't just about not having them- it's about no one apparently thinking we might need them they're a reasonable and frankly baseline precaution. Getting them ingame later only solves half the problem. I still want to know what moron thought it'd be a good idea to leave without them, what other moron put them in charge and what the rest of the morons who went along with it were doing at the time? Because thinking sure doesn't seem to be an option. The same ones that makes the mistakes about the cluster and were unable to keep the situation on the Nexus stable, probably.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 26, 2017 22:52:13 GMT
The same ones that makes the mistakes about the cluster and were unable to keep the situation on the Nexus stable, probably. I don't know the details but that seems like the kind of stuff that can be easily explained. Things like mistakes in navigation, sudden malfunctions, unexpected crap popping up. That works and is the basis for a lot of twists in sci-fi or adventure. Again, the plot of Sunshine was basically kicked off by a math error. What does not compute is a fundamental fail like this massive oversight in design/planning or worse, deliberate idiocy (#wecomeinpeace).
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Post by colfoley on Jan 26, 2017 22:52:16 GMT
Ok that kind of answers points one and two but the Archon still would have swatted us like a fly. So why didn't he? You're essentially saying that firing a weapon would anger him or in any provoke a response on his part. Which means you're making an assertion about the motives/reactions of an alien we know nothing about. He's already threatening us. But does that mean what we think it means? It's pointless to speculate on that at this stage. What is neither pointless nor speculation is that a weapon presents options. Maybe not options in the immediate future, or options that are clearly the correct path to victory. But options nonetheless, and ones that absolutely will be vital that we have. So, redo all the cutscenes featuring the ship? Maybe the early 'unfriendly' encounter motivates them to put some guns on their explorer's vessel; so it's a quest to install a gun and get it working? Depends where they want the beams coming out of. The massive stupidity isn't just about not having them- it's about no one apparently thinking we might need them they're a reasonable and frankly baseline precaution. Getting them ingame later only solves half the problem. I still want to know what moron thought it'd be a good idea to leave without them, what other moron put them in charge and what the rest of the morons who went along with it were doing at the time? Because thinking sure doesn't seem to be an option. Yes you are right, speculation is pointles, but it is fun. Because if no one speculated or assumed things then this whole argument would not happen. Why? Because its an assumption that the Tempest isn't armed, can't be armed, in the trailer we saw today...
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 26, 2017 22:54:52 GMT
Yes you are right, speculation is pointles, but it is fun. Because if no one speculated or assumed things then this whole argument would not happen. Why? Because its an assumption that the Tempest isn't armed, can't be armed, in the trailer we saw today... I wish the weapons thing was only speculation/assumption. But SuperMac confirmed it on the infernal twitter. Never thought I'd praise Jeebus if a dev actually lied about something. But such are the times.
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 26, 2017 22:55:42 GMT
The same ones that makes the mistakes about the cluster and were unable to keep the situation on the Nexus stable, probably. I don't know the details but that seems like the kind of stuff that can be easily explained. Things like mistakes in navigation, sudden malfunctions, unexpected crap popping up. That works and is the basis for a lot of twists in sci-fi or adventure. Again, the plot of Sunshine was basically kicked off by a math error. What does not compute is a fundamental fail like this massive oversight in design/planning or worse, deliberate idiocy (#wecomeinpeace). Depends. The reason for the uprisings might be because of some flaw or error of the Initiative. The naivety/idiocy of the choice, while maybe on another level with the other things mentioned, isn't really something new in the ME universe, expecially from leaders.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 26, 2017 22:56:41 GMT
Yes you are right, speculation is pointles, but it is fun. Because if no one speculated or assumed things then this whole argument would not happen. Why? Because its an assumption that the Tempest isn't armed, can't be armed, in the trailer we saw today... I wish the weapons thing was only speculation/assumption. But SuperMac confirmed it on the infernal twitter. Never thought I'd praise Jeebus if a dev actually lied about something. But such are the times. But they never said anything about installing weapons on the Tempest later. At least not to the best of my knowledge. All we know for 100% certainty is that the Tempest didn't start with weapons when it left the MWG.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Jan 26, 2017 22:57:27 GMT
Not a fan of the straight up (looks like a dude) haircut in the third picture.... If a simple change in hair length changes a woman into a dude she looked like a dude in the first place. If a dude grows long hair he does not turn into a woman either, so no, hair length does not equal a sex change, its just...short or long hair!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 23:02:34 GMT
I wish the weapons thing was only speculation/assumption. But SuperMac confirmed it on the infernal twitter. Never thought I'd praise Jeebus if a dev actually lied about something. But such are the times. But they never said anything about installing weapons on the Tempest later. At least not to the best of my knowledge. All we know for 100% certainty is that the Tempest didn't start with weapons when it left the MWG. Yeah, they could be pulling an 'Arkham Knight' with the 'totally not upgradeable with guns' stance. Turns out, it just was a quest they didn't want to spoil. As to the stupidity of the initial decision: I'd say that there's still a dearth of information to decide on that. Maybe the Tempest was meant to be accompanied by some sort of gunship; but then with the Nexus malfunction, they found themselves all on their own, etc. etc. I agree that it sounds preposterous. But so does the main premise of the game.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 26, 2017 23:06:58 GMT
But they never said anything about installing weapons on the Tempest later. At least not to the best of my knowledge. All we know for 100% certainty is that the Tempest didn't start with weapons when it left the MWG. Yeah, they could be pulling an 'Arkham Knight' with the 'totally not upgradeable with guns' stance. Turns out, it just was a quest they didn't want to spoil. As to the stupidity of the initial decision: I'd say that there's still a dearth of information to decide on that. Maybe the Tempest was meant to be accompanied by some sort of gunship; but then with the Nexus malfunction, they found themselves all on their own, etc. etc. I agree that it sounds preposterous. But so does the main premise of the game. Well again, from my own sensibilities and the logic I'd use in the situation (and Crutch to) the idea is stupid because I make the assumption from watching things like Trek that even the most well meaning explorers could run into things like Klingons and Borg or Goa'uld which could want for nothing but to tear down your entire world. But the Andromeda Iniative founders are operating under an entirely different series of logical assumptions/ norms. So to them, not arming the Tempest makes perfect sense. And if I had their logical viewpoint I'd agree with them. But since I don't... Also might I point out that Andromeda won't be the first fully successful science fiction franchise which did not have weapons on their main means of transportation and the ship in question did just fine despite being in combat on numerous occasions. In point of fact both of these things defenses relied on what we have been talking about here, running away, or being stealthy. (See Moya from Farscape and Serenity from Firefly).
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Post by NRieh on Jan 26, 2017 23:07:24 GMT
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 26, 2017 23:10:50 GMT
Depends. The reason for the uprisings might be because of some flaw or error of the Initiative. The naivety/idiocy of the choice, while maybe on another level with the other things mentioned, isn't really something new in the ME universe, expecially from leaders. Idiocy in politics, and idiocy through stagnation. Not really idiocy in planning or executing something of a scientific nature or practical. Unless they were holding the villain ball or it was some sort of social ineptitute, military or scientific leaders were usually on point. But they never said anything about installing weapons on the Tempest later. At least not to the best of my knowledge. All we know for 100% certainty is that the Tempest didn't start with weapons when it left the MWG. And that's already a big problem. If a simple change in hair length changes a woman into a dude she looked like a dude in the first place. If a dude grows long hair he does not turn into a woman either, so no, hair length does not equal a sex change, its just...short or long hair!
That's a bit simplistic and you know it. Hair can soften features or frame them in an entirely new light. And depending on the facial structure, some faces may simply not look good with short (or long hair for that matter). Finally, there's no escaping the association of numbers. Most dudes wear their hair short so short hair is a man or boyish cut, particularly if there's nothing else done to it, as women tend to style, shape it or color it more than guys do. Not even a "haha girls do their hair" thing, there's just more variety to the point where that is also an association. Can you go against the grain? Yes, but depending on your individual features it may be slightly more uphill.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 26, 2017 23:12:22 GMT
Sorry to hear that, though it shouldn't be a surprise that it isn't going to please anyone, nor wipe all negative sentiment. A statement like that is almost like saying people aren't allowed an opinion of the game that isn't hype. I'm genuinely interested as to what it is in the trailer you don't like? A few things. The tone that they went with this trailer is a bit offputing, making it seem more like a cheesy action film than I would like. Not saying those aren't good, just not what I was hoping for with this. Then there was certain scenes that validated some of my worries. And other scenes made me a bit nervous and uncomfortable, like the part that is part of Cora's and Scott's romance scene. There were good things in the trailer too, like I like the Angarans, but more was negative than positive. Considering that the entirety of the Mass Effect franchise is pretty much cheesy action slathered all over its space opera, this really shouldn't come as much of a surprise at this point. As for the romance scene, I don't see why it would be a problem since it's optional, and while I can see this argument going in the direction that there should be an option to have all more passionate intimacy left out, the reality is that it would part of the game regardless, and shouldn't be excluded from being showcased along with the rest of the game's highlights.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 26, 2017 23:17:36 GMT
A few things. The tone that they went with this trailer is a bit offputing, making it seem more like a cheesy action film than I would like. Not saying those aren't good, just not what I was hoping for with this. Then there was certain scenes that validated some of my worries. And other scenes made me a bit nervous and uncomfortable, like the part that is part of Cora's and Scott's romance scene. There were good things in the trailer too, like I like the Angarans, but more was negative than positive. Considering that the entirety of the Mass Effect franchise is pretty much cheesy action slathered all over its space opera, this really shouldn't come as much of a surprise at this point. As for the romance scene, I don't see why it would be a problem since it's optional, and while I can see this argument going in the direction that there should be an option to have all more passionate intimacy left out, the reality is that it would part of the game regardless, and shouldn't be excluded from being showcased along with the rest of the game's highlights. When did I say it should have been excluded from being showcased? I never said that, so please don't put words in my mouth. They can showcase whatever they want, but as a result I liked the trailer less for it.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 26, 2017 23:18:43 GMT
Fair enough, though I think getting nervous about it is kind of silly.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 26, 2017 23:21:54 GMT
As to the stupidity of the initial decision: I'd say that there's still a dearth of information to decide on that. Maybe the Tempest was meant to be accompanied by some sort of gunship; but then with the Nexus malfunction, they found themselves all on their own, etc. etc. I agree that it sounds preposterous. But so does the main premise of the game. Scout ship (and the way the Pathfinder's been described) tends to imply a solo mission for the ship. And really, if people argue "but the Tempest could totally stealth guys and a weapons would detract from that!" then I would think a whole other gunship hanging out would be more counterintuitive than slapping a gat on the hull. I don't think the main premise sounds preposterous, I think it's just what the doctor ordered in both continuing the series and moving past the endings debachle. Under specific circumstances (read: Reapers and Sovereign parts) there is motivation and it can be done in-universe. And it offers a lot of great opportunities to do some neat stuff. Sadly none of that seems like it's being taken advantage of right now. Well again, from my own sensibilities and the logic I'd use in the situation (and Crutch to) the idea is stupid because I make the assumption from watching things like Trek that even the most well meaning explorers could run into things like Klingons and Borg or Goa'uld which could want for nothing but to tear down your entire world. But the Andromeda Iniative founders are operating under an entirely different series of logical assumptions/ norms. So to them, not arming the Tempest makes perfect sense. And if I had their logical viewpoint I'd agree with them. But since I don't... Also might I point out that Andromeda won't be the first fully successful science fiction franchise which did not have weapons on their main means of transportation and the ship in question did just fine despite being in combat on numerous occasions. In point of fact both of these things defenses relied on what we have been talking about here, running away, or being stealthy. (See Moya from Farscape and Serenity from Firefly). Yeah we'd be going in space with the assumptions that aliens are an unknown, unproven and possibly non-existent possibility, whereas Mass Effect people both know there can be aliens and have fought them before. If anything we'd be less likely to take guns into space, or at least we'd have a degree of improvisation/multiuse to ours (like a mining laser that can also be turned on a threat if need be) And the no weapons thing stuck out and bothered me in Firefly as well. But there they did have an excuse and there is where your laws argument would actually work. Mounting guns on Serenity would problably draw more Alliance attention than anyone on board's comfortable with. But the differences are as obvious as they are numerous: small crew vs giant project, closed local system vs whole new galaxy (yes I know we're only in the Helius cluster but still, they're going to a whole new galaxy), direct and opressive legal oversight vs no law but themselves, some support systems and chance for aid vs practically zero of the same. Need I go on?
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