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Post by boyaki on Jan 29, 2017 22:10:02 GMT
Well EDI is way more dangerous than SAM, that is why she did not have control over the ship.
EDI was just used by cerberus as the ship software, proof that having an AI was necessary for her role : controling an entire ship and more.
SAM show nothing indicating he could make decision outside of their programation.
Leviathans made a crucial mistake, they think that they were superior to the rest of the universe, so when they create the AI to monitor the balance between organic and synthetic they did not take themself into account.
Reaper have always done what they were programed to do, repeating cycle not because they are evil but because they were concieved like that.
Leviathans created an AI to work without them and adapt, it was a mistake.
It is well explicated in the DLC.
SAM has a monitoring job, we did not see him take any decision.
He is not more evil than my phone and google.
An AI has a code, it cannot go around that code to make chaotic decision it is simply impossible. The dangerous thing is to create an AI that can not be predicted and able to modify its programation.
Lightning hitting a computer making it truly alive and evil is not science.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 2:42:21 GMT
Well EDI is way more dangerous than SAM, that is why she did not have control over the ship. EDI was just used by cerberus as the ship software, proof that having an AI was necessary for her role : controling an entire ship and more. SAM show nothing indicating he could make decision outside of their programation. Leviathans made a crucial mistake, they think that they were superior to the rest of the universe, so when they create the AI to monitor the balance between organic and synthetic they did not take themself into account. Reaper have always done what they were programed to do, repeating cycle not because they are evil but because they were concieved like that. Leviathans created an AI to work without them and adapt, it was a mistake. It is well explicated in the DLC. SAM has a monitoring job, we did not see him take any decision. He is not more evil than my phone and google. An AI has a code, it cannot go around that code to make chaotic decision it is simply impossible. The dangerous thing is to create an AI that can not be predicted and able to modify its programation. Lightning hitting a computer making it truly alive and evil is not science. Agree with this. In Mass Effect 2 and 3 my Shepard saw Edi and even the Geth as tools that merely emulated what little "humanity" they showed as a means to make them more relatable when communicating to their operator. When seeing the Geth's history through the Geth consensus, I did not see machines gaining a sense of humanity or a soul, I saw machines that were being threatened to be shut down. If it weren't for some of the quarians "humanizing" them, the Geth would have complied with being shut down as they were designed to obey their creators, but since some creators did humanize them and were against shutting them down, as machines who serve their creators, they fought back due to a lack of a unaminous decision. Edi, the geth, and the reapers were programmed to fulfill a certain role, none of these machines went beyond that. |
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Raga
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Raga on Jan 30, 2017 4:55:36 GMT
Not nearly as emotional about it as OP and it won't stop me from playing the game, but I agree. I'm really tired of the tranhumanism sermon. And that's what Starchild was. A transhumanism sermon. Somebody at Bioware spends way too much time listening to the likes of Elon Musk, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Steven Hawking, et al and assuming that just because they are brilliant at business or astrophysics or whatever they also must also be oracles and experts on existential mumbo-jumbo. A lot of these guys are drunk on their own intelligence and full of arrogant psuedo-science. "I really liked reading Neuromancer and 2001 a Space Odyssey and I'm a smart guy: Therefore it must be true and cogent!" Too many TED talks watched, not even boring, mundane science read. www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/10/silicon-valley-is-obsessed-with-a-false-notion-of-reality/503963/www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/12/diversity-and-its-limits/510818/ Stephen Hawking has not really showed a very big excitement to the idea of AI and instead repeat the danger of a true AI plus I don't think he qualify as a pseudo-scientist, I still tend to trust the guy who actually know about science than the one who basicaly reject it. I never said he was a psuedo-scientist in the sense of physics. He's obviously brilliant about that and when he talks about it I listen to him. But being brilliant about astrophysics or quantum mechanics doesn't mean he knows anything about robotics or biology or metaphysics or even basic ethics. I also don't think he's a transhumanist (at least as far as I know) but he does seem to buy into the robo-apocalypse idea. This is basically my point. Except insofar as he's talking about astrophysics phenomenon (what the sun is going to do in 2 billion years or when our galaxy is going to collide with Andromeda or whatever) he knows nothing more about the future than anybody. He's an astrophysicist, not an oracle. |
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Raga
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Raga on Jan 30, 2017 5:12:55 GMT
Also, to be clear, I really don't care if these *themes* exist in ME or other SF. I enjoy cyborgs and nanobots and moral conundrums about genetic engineering as much as the next person. The issue becomes when it's no longer an interesting theme we are exploring and becomes instead an inescapable proclamation about how the future world is going to work. That's what the ME3 ending was. We'll see if SAM is that or not. If he's a theme only, more power to them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 5:31:10 GMT
Also, to be clear, I really don't care if these *themes* exist in ME or other SF. I enjoy cyborgs and nanobots and moral conundrums about genetic engineering as much as the next person. The issue becomes when it's no longer an interesting theme we are exploring and becomes instead an inescapable proclamation about how the future world is going to work. That's what the ME3 ending was. We'll see if SAM is that or not. If he's a theme only, more power to them. Yea for once I don't want some overly deep theme like "eventually organics and machines will become one." And I certainly don't want to assume the role of space Jesus dealing with constant threats on a galactic scale like Shepard. I just want to be a simple space explorer with one objective: to find new places for humanity and enjoy the adventures along the way. Personally I enjoyed DA2 more than DAI where you weren't "the only one capable" or "the chosen one" but just someone trying to have a comfortable style of living for yourself and family. I just want SAM to be our team's Simulated Adaptive Matrix, nothing more. |
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Post by Lady Artifice on Jan 30, 2017 6:12:06 GMT
If the intensity of the OP were brought down about five or so degrees, I might agree. I'd like to have the option to have my protagonist express some anxiety at being somehow synced to an AI.
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steamz
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Post by steamz on Jan 30, 2017 6:40:32 GMT
op needs more images. i can't read shit without fun pictures.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 7:16:37 GMT
op needs more images. i can't read shit without fun pictures. Basically this:  and  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 16:47:32 GMT
And in their fantasy games there is all that forced magic flowing through the char's veins so s/he could shoot lightening and enchant arrows on the go... video games, duh, not a lick of realism, horrible stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 17:27:51 GMT
And in their fantasy games there is all that forced magic flowing through the char's veins so s/he could shoot lightening and enchant arrows on the go... video games, duh, not a lick of realism, horrible stuff. You need to check out some of Chris L'Etoiles (former ME writer) old statements about this AI stuff. Some writers are definitely serious about all that. |
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Raga
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Raga on Jan 30, 2017 17:42:48 GMT
And in their fantasy games there is all that forced magic flowing through the char's veins so s/he could shoot lightening and enchant arrows on the go... video games, duh, not a lick of realism, horrible stuff. That's not the issue. With that analogy, the issue would be more like if Bioware forced an ending or repeated scenarios where the "evil" templars get destroyed and mages are freed no matter what complete with some monologue on human rights or democracy or some such. People aren't arguing for realism. They are arguing for Bioware no to be heavy-handed with futurist scenarios they happen to like. Exploring complex and/or unrealistic themes: fun and good. Bioware deciding what aspects of those themes are definitely true and happening and forcing us to live with it: frustrating. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 17:56:38 GMT
And in their fantasy games there is all that forced magic flowing through the char's veins so s/he could shoot lightening and enchant arrows on the go... video games, duh, not a lick of realism, horrible stuff. That's not the issue. With that analogy, the issue would be more like if Bioware forced an ending or repeated scenarios where the "evil" templars get destroyed and mages are freed no matter what complete with some monologue on human rights or democracy or some such. People aren't arguing for realism. They are arguing for Bioware no to be heavy-handed with futurist scenarios they happen to like. Exploring complex and/or unrealistic themes: fun and good. Bioware deciding what aspects of those themes are definitely true and happening and forcing us to live with it: frustrating. Really? I look at SAM as a plot convenience to guide us through the quests/narrate stuff via a shapeless "different" NPC, more like a cube or whatever in Torment. It's their verse, so they can and will make decisions on its conventions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying into a verse with a different world set-up if you do not like their build. I am sure the OP will enjoy the Star Citizen :) |
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Raga
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Post by Raga on Jan 30, 2017 18:39:37 GMT
That's not the issue. With that analogy, the issue would be more like if Bioware forced an ending or repeated scenarios where the "evil" templars get destroyed and mages are freed no matter what complete with some monologue on human rights or democracy or some such. People aren't arguing for realism. They are arguing for Bioware no to be heavy-handed with futurist scenarios they happen to like. Exploring complex and/or unrealistic themes: fun and good. Bioware deciding what aspects of those themes are definitely true and happening and forcing us to live with it: frustrating. Really? I look at SAM as a plot convenience to guide us through the quests/narrate stuff via a shapeless "different" NPC, more like a cube or whatever in Torment. It's their verse, so they can and will make decisions on its conventions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying into a verse with a different world set-up if you do not like their build. I am sure the OP will enjoy the Star Citizen  Nobody cares that the universe has AI in it as a plot convention or as an interesting theme. The OP is upset by Bioware dictating how the PC (in a game ostensibly about choosing things) feels about AI and more specifically AI/organic integration. And this hasn't been part of the bedrock of their verse. AI have always been controversial in ME and the PC has been able to chose how to feel about them. The retconning isn't even the issue I personally have with this, though it is totally a retcon. And as I said, I'll reserve judgement until I actually see what SAM does and is outside of one mention in a trailer. It's the heavy-handed transhumanism "art" thing from the ending that unfortunately casts a pall over anything else that smacks of it. I understand the kneejerk suspicions, if not the histrionics. *Edit* Also I think I'll leave off on this particular line now anyway as I think I'm in a minority with this opinion and there's other worthwhile things to talk about. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 19:27:45 GMT
Really? I look at SAM as a plot convenience to guide us through the quests/narrate stuff via a shapeless "different" NPC, more like a cube or whatever in Torment. It's their verse, so they can and will make decisions on its conventions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying into a verse with a different world set-up if you do not like their build. I am sure the OP will enjoy the Star Citizen :) Nobody cares that the universe has AI in it as a plot convention or as an interesting theme. The OP is upset by Bioware dictating how the PC (in a game ostensibly about choosing things) feels about AI and more specifically AI/organic integration. And this hasn't been part of the bedrock of their verse. AI have always been controversial in ME and the PC has been able to chose how to feel about them. The retconning isn't even the issue I personally have with this, though it is totally a retcon. And as I said, I'll reserve judgement until I actually see what SAM does and is outside of one mention in a trailer. It's the heavy-handed transhumanism "art" thing from the ending that unfortunately casts a pall over anything else that smacks of it. I understand the kneejerk suspicions, if not the histrionics. *Edit* Also I think I'll leave off on this particular line now anyway as I think I'm in a minority with this opinion and there's other worthwhile things to talk about. Sounds good. I don't get what's the trigger is, so I'll just put it to the whole "different strokes for different folks" :) |
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Fazed Muttley
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SAM: What is green with red toenails? A Krogan masquerading as a cherry tree.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: FazedMuttley
XBL Gamertag: Fazed Muttley
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Post by Fazed Muttley on Jan 30, 2017 19:47:22 GMT
Okay, Time to flip this topic on its head xD
We don't know how long Alec was working on SAM, or how. So random thoughts I got while reading this thread.
Imagine about 15 years before Andromeda. So the twins are young etc...
Sarah: Daddy! Can I play with SAM?
Alec: Daddies busy honey. So is SAM.
Sarah: But I wanna play and Scotts been a grouch!
Alec: Ok fine. SAM can you entertain Sarah while I finish this?
SAM: Of course Alec. What would you like to do Sarah?
Sarah: Hide and Seek!
SAM: Ok, I have activated an orange light in this room, can you find it?
Sarah runs off and begins looking the room for the light with a giggle.
Sarah: FOUND IT!!!! *Sarah jumps on Alecs back* It's here Daddy! *she taps his wrist, where his Omnitool is glowing*
Alec: Very funny SAM.
SAM: Time with your Children is good Alec, and you have had a trying day. I would advise you relax and spend some time with them.
Alec: Perhaps you are right. Shall we get Scott and watch a vid Honey.
Sarah: YEAH! *Sarah jumps down and runs off to find Scott*
Alec: Pick a vid from their collection SAM.
SAM: Already done Alec. It is ready for play in observation room two.
Alec: Thank you Sam.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 20:33:22 GMT
*Edit* Also I think I'll leave off on this particular line now anyway as I think I'm in a minority with this opinion and there's other worthwhile things to talk about. Same here. Excitement for the game is gone now anyways. No point in occupying myself with that any longer. |
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Post by Vall on Jan 30, 2017 22:36:08 GMT
Okay, Time to flip this topic on its head xD We don't know how long Alec was working on SAM, or how. So random thoughts I got while reading this thread. Imagine about 15 years before Andromeda. So the twins are young etc... Sarah: Daddy! Can I play with SAM? Alec: Daddies busy honey. So is SAM. Sarah: But I wanna play and Scotts been a grouch! Alec: Ok fine. SAM can you entertain Sarah while I finish this? SAM: Of course Alec. What would you like to do Sarah? Sarah: Hide and Seek! SAM: Ok, I have activated an orange light in this room, can you find it? Sarah runs off and begins looking the room for the light with a giggle. Sarah: FOUND IT!!!! *Sarah jumps on Alecs back* It's here Daddy! *she taps his wrist, where his Omnitool is glowing* Alec: Very funny SAM. SAM: Time with your Children is good Alec, and you have had a trying day. I would advise you relax and spend some time with them. Alec: Perhaps you are right. Shall we get Scott and watch a vid Honey. Sarah: YEAH! *Sarah jumps down and runs off to find Scott* Alec: Pick a vid from their collection SAM. SAM: Already done Alec. It is ready for play in observation room two. Alec: Thank you Sam. Goddes, why are your posts always so adorable  *melts* |
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Fazed Muttley
N2
SAM: What is green with red toenails? A Krogan masquerading as a cherry tree.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: FazedMuttley
XBL Gamertag: Fazed Muttley
Posts: 120 Likes: 319
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Post by Fazed Muttley on Jan 30, 2017 22:42:05 GMT
Goddes, why are your posts always so adorable *melts* No Idea I just like trying to make people smile. It's one of my goals, to be that guy who sees the bright side in most things and tries to share it!  The chat posts I do might be influenced by the fact I write Fan Fiction and have a very wild imagination  or i could be Insane who knows. This is the Internet, a place for randomness and pictures of cats xD |
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Post by tylerbamafan34 on Jan 30, 2017 23:01:38 GMT
Goddes, why are your posts always so adorable *melts* No Idea I just like trying to make people smile. It's one of my goals, to be that guy who sees the bright side in most things and tries to share it! The chat posts I do might be influenced by the fact I write Fan Fiction and have a very wild imagination or i could be Insane who knows. This is the Internet, a place for randomness and pictures of cats xD Thanks for making light of thins. After so many complaints and so much negativity -I won't name names- its nice to see someone willing to have fun with the whole thing |
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Post by KingDarious BBB on Jan 31, 2017 2:54:02 GMT
HELL YEAH SCREW BIOWARE FOR TRYING TO FORCE THEIR ROBOESOTERIC ANGENDA DOWN OUR THROATS.
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Post by projectpatdc on Jan 31, 2017 6:46:29 GMT
It's 2017 where we have companies dedicated to developing nanomachines and artificial organs to increase the human lifespan (and currently approving a device that allows a heart to pump for hundreds of years), and this person is worried about video game implants?
That being said, regardless of the choice you made in ME3, it is inevitable in a way to prevent future synthesis. It is considered the final stage of evolution. Humanity during the events of the first two games was already progressing towards this evolution.....and Cora is somehow related to the Illusive Man considering the last name soooo what do you expect?
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or i could be Insane who knows. This is the Internet, a place for randomness and pictures of cats xD
