ShakespeareInSpace
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Stars, hide your fires; Let not light see my black and deep desires
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Stars, hide your fires; Let not light see my black and deep desires
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Post by ShakespeareInSpace on Mar 3, 2017 15:07:30 GMT
I think it's entirely plausible that Liam could be a bisexual squadmate. I'll concede that it would be reminiscent of Kaiden and Bioware could have been innovated in the approach to a m/m alien romance, which is still an option as we have no concrete evidence.
I'm cynical enough to believe that a bisexual squadmate could have been revoked at EA's request as I still maintain that Bioware is a proponent of lgbt content. EA is dubious enough to say "advertise the straight content to obscure and distract from the lack of other content."
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Post by Dirk on Mar 3, 2017 15:09:48 GMT
Yep, I really hate it when people use "realism" argument when it comes to lgbt content. People are willing to ignore other unrealistic in ME series, but when we ask for more lgbt content, it's almost as if the existence of lgbt people offends them.
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Ianamus
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Post by Ianamus on Mar 3, 2017 15:22:48 GMT
To be fair, Dragon Age 2 was incredibly unrealistic in how it tried to approach character sexuality. In real life the sexuality of other people doesn't depend entirely on what gender you were born as.
I know they later said that all of the DA2 LI's were bi, but it doesn't change the fact that original developer comments on the matter were that the LI's "could be seen as straight or gay depending on Hawke you were playing".
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not so salty shark
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Post by not so salty shark on Mar 3, 2017 15:28:35 GMT
Yep, I really hate it when people use "realism" argument when it comes to lgbt content. People are willing to ignore other unrealistic in ME series, but when we ask for more lgbt content, it's almost as if the existence of lgbt people offends them. Indeed. People screaming "UNREALISTIC!!!" at the thought of numerous characters in a video game liking the same sex has always been a completely absurd argument to me. Complain about the lack of LGBT content and you get responses like, "Well, I know it sucks for you, but you have to remember that the devs are striving for realism here!" Meanwhile, Sara is bumping uglies with a purple squid cobra cat man and nobody cares.
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Post by jaybo on Mar 3, 2017 15:44:06 GMT
I'm cynical enough to believe that a bisexual squadmate could have been revoked at EA's request as I still maintain that Bioware is a proponent of lgbt content. EA is dubious enough to say "advertise the straight content to obscure and distract from the lack of other content." No way. EA has proven to be one of if not the most LGBT friendly businesses around. There are tons of examples, but the Sims 4 is probably the most prominent. Full marriage, no gender restrictions on hair/voice/clothing/accessories/makeup, female and male 'frames' for each gender that allow for creating transgender sims, hell you can even decide if your male sims can pee standing up or literally get pregnant. And then you consider that there is already precedent for this exact scenario of gay and/or bi party members in ME3 and the Dragon Age series. With all that in mind, i feel it would be extremely unlikely that EA forced Bioware's hand. Whatever the content and reaction, it falls squarely on Bioware's shoulders.
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Post by Crim on Mar 3, 2017 15:45:22 GMT
Yep, I really hate it when people use "realism" argument when it comes to lgbt content. People are willing to ignore other unrealistic in ME series, but when we ask for more lgbt content, it's almost as if the existence of lgbt people offends them.Which of course harps back to if the shoe was on the other foot how would you feel? Exactly, you wouldn't like it either. Anyway, I just hope that we'll see Gil and Suvi in that vid today, this is getting old fast.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 3, 2017 15:46:15 GMT
To be fair, Dragon Age 2 was incredibly unrealistic in how it tried to approach character sexuality. In real life the sexuality of other people doesn't depend entirely on what gender you were born as. I know they later said that all of the DA2 LI's were bi, but it doesn't change the fact that original developer comments on the matter were that the LI's "could be seen as straight or gay depending on Hawke you were playing". It's incredibly unrealistic that your potential dating pool is artificially restricted, so i don't see any issue with the fact that a game won't necessarily mirror reality. Playersexuality was a very good way to deliver options to players. I never understood why some people seemed to have an issue with variance between different world states.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Mar 3, 2017 15:46:23 GMT
Is it just me or has the same discussion been going on for 100+ pages now? Bioware tries to make realistic people ...aaaaannnd you lost me. Tell me, what's so unrealistic about having a group that contains many bisexual and gay people? And if you're insistent that that's too brain-exploding to comprehend, let's not ignore the fact that this is a freaking VIDEO GAME that's unabashedly chock-full of unrealistic elements. Why does that have to stop at romance? I guess it's super unrealistic that I tend to hang around LGBT people? And that a lot of my friend and acquaintances growing up realized they were LGBT? Look, I get it's not everyone's experiences, but, at least in more liberal areas, it isn't that uncommon to find a group of friends where more than a couple of them are either trans or gay/bi or both. You could argue that the numbers are skewed because it's a more liberal area, but the Mass Effect universe is technically a more liberal area too. Besides, if it's a numbers game that makes it so unrealistic to have a lot of LGBT people, then couldn't they make Liam gay, Peebee bi, and the majority of the squad straight? Wouldn't that make more sense technically than having a ton of random NPCs be LGBT, by your argument? And that raises the question why they would be so unwilling to make a character like Cora or Liam gay and decide gay people are crewmembers instead. If you start using arguments like "oh but they want to provide a straight human option to the straight playerbase," then you've already invalidated your argument that it's about realism.
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Post by Petroshenko on Mar 3, 2017 15:47:37 GMT
We could just turn this thread into CrimsonN7 shitposting megavault because it sure is enjoyable and would be a bit of an uplift from the genral doom & gloom
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naychan
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Post by naychan on Mar 3, 2017 15:49:16 GMT
We are discussing this because we dont have information. Eh... Circle of pain.
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not so salty shark
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Post by not so salty shark on Mar 3, 2017 15:49:21 GMT
^ This.
The "unrealistic" argument doesn't fly no matter how you slice it.
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Post by Natashina on Mar 3, 2017 15:53:13 GMT
Ah, the realism argument. It never fails to make me laugh. Particularly when it comes like sexuality and gender in a science-fiction setting. I won't even get into how most modern day statistics are far from an accurate portrayal of reality, or that there are folks that stay in the closet even when taking an anonymous survey about sexuality.
"Too many LGBT+ people are not realistic," says a random fan of Mass Effect. Really? Let's take a look back to ME1. Forget the Lazarus Project, forget the Starbrat. This is just in the first game.
--Two races that can live up to 1000 years or possibly more? Sure thing. --One of those races is all female and can mate with anyone to make only more of their own race? That's hot. --The other can have up to two or three of the same organs? Sweet. --The whole idea behind biotics, aka Space Magic? Cool. --A sentient mindcontrolling plant that's possibly thousands of years old? Neat. --That can spit out perfect humanoid clones, down to the biotics? Alright. --A billion year old robotic space ship talking smack to one lone human? Bring it on. --A 50,000 year old VI somehow staying online just long enough to address Shep? Nice.
I kissed most "realism" goodbye by the end of ME1. It seems weird that that all of that is well and good, but have more than one squadmate/companion that's LGBT+ and suddenly it's unrealistic.
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Post by Kian on Mar 3, 2017 15:55:15 GMT
Yep, I really hate it when people use "realism" argument when it comes to lgbt content. People are willing to ignore other unrealistic in ME series, but when we ask for more lgbt content, it's almost as if the existence of lgbt people offends them.Which of course harps back to if the shoe was on the other foot how would you feel? Exactly, you wouldn't like it either. Anyway, I just hope that we'll see Gil and Suvi in that vid today, this is getting old fast. The shoe thing makes sense if you tell it to someone str8. Considering they always have content and fanservice, and etc. It's pretty obvious what the point of that argument is. You're addressing that specific argument in the wrong direction with Dirkjake (as far as I can tell based on his posts). Or did you want to say something else and I missed it? Just woke up and I'm a bit hazy.
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Post by Crim on Mar 3, 2017 15:55:32 GMT
We could just turn this thread into CrimsonN7 shitposting megavault because it sure is enjoyable and would be a bit of an uplift from the genral doom & gloom I do love a good shit post, I'm trying to find ways to work RuPaul gifs into more convos... it works!
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Mar 3, 2017 15:57:32 GMT
Anyways, I'm hoping we see Gil and Suvi in the new gameplay video, but it seems unlikely. If we see them at all, it'll probably be in the next/last cinematic trailer with Sara. Hopefully, Gil and Suvi will get their chance to shine in marketing before release. :kiss:
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Post by hammerstorm on Mar 3, 2017 15:59:00 GMT
Yep, I really hate it when people use "realism" argument when it comes to lgbt content. People are willing to ignore other unrealistic in ME series, but when we ask for more lgbt content, it's almost as if the existence of lgbt people offends them. Indeed. People screaming "UNREALISTIC!!!" at the thought of numerous characters in a video game liking the same sex has always been a completely absurd argument to me. Complain about the lack of LGBT content and you get responses like, "Well, I know it sucks for you, but you have to remember that the devs are striving for realism here!" Meanwhile, Sara is bumping uglies with a purple squid cobra cat man and nobody cares. Since we are still on this idea that "realistic" is not working in games, I will now say something that will make people hate me, but I don't care anymore. Why do you care if there is lgbt in the game? It is "just a game". So in that regard, you should not care anymore about having lgbt npc in the game than having realistic things, because it is "just a game". Some people want npc that are realistic, that does not mean they don't want any lgbt in the game. But the fact that you have to claim that it is "just a game" to put in lgbt in it do not help in any way. Maybe you should stop act as it is a "life and death" matter and realise that it is "just a game". But I start to want Bioware to cut all romance in the games because nobody (no matter what sexuality) is apparently happy about anything! Now, do not respond to this post because I will not care to answer and it will only start a war and that will make the mods annoyed.
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sandalisthemaker
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Post by sandalisthemaker on Mar 3, 2017 15:59:53 GMT
Ah, the realism argument. It never fails to make me laugh. Particularly when it comes like sexuality and gender in a science-fiction setting. I won't even get into how most modern day statistics are far from an accurate portrayal of reality, or that there are folks that stay in the closet even when taking an anonymous survey about sexuality. "Too many LGBT+ people are not realistic," says a random fan of Mass Effect. Really? Let's take a look back to ME1. Forget the Lazarus Project, forget the Starbrat. This is just in the first game. --Two races that can live up to 1000 years or possibly more? Sure thing. --One of those races is all female and can mate with anyone to make only more of their own race? That's hot. --The other can have up to two or three of the same organs? Sweet. --The whole idea behind biotics, aka Space Magic? Cool. --A sentient mindcontrolling plant that's possibly thousands of years old? Neat. --That can spit out perfect humanoid clones, down to the biotics? Alright. --A billion year old robotic space ship talking smack to one lone human? Bring it on. --A 50,000 year old VI somehow staying online just long enough to address Shep? Nice. I kissed most "realism" goodbye by the end of ME1. It seems weird that that all of that is well and good, but have more than one squadmate/companion that's LGBT+ and suddenly it's unrealistic. Plus the nay-sayers go so far as to take the group of companions and extrapolate it as being a reflection of the entire population. "They are making everyone gay/bi! So unrealistic!" No, just some of the companions/squad. Making a significant portion of a small sample size bi or gay does not reflect on the population as a whole, so there is no reason why a small group of people having a larger percentage of LGBT individuals within their ranks than "average" is unrealistic or out of the ordinary.
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Post by Crim on Mar 3, 2017 16:03:59 GMT
Which of course harps back to if the shoe was on the other foot how would you feel? Exactly, you wouldn't like it either. Anyway, I just hope that we'll see Gil and Suvi in that vid today, this is getting old fast. The show thing makes sense if you tell it to someone str8. Considering they always have content and fanservice, and etc. It's pretty obvious what the point of that argument is. You're addressing that specific argument in the wrong direction with Dirkjake (as far as I can tell based on his posts). Or did you want to say something else and I missed it? Just woke up and I'm a bit hazy. Eh? Thought it was clear, was saying that if the straight player fanbase had to experience what we experience would they be happy about it, nadda they wouldn't. Shoe on the other foot.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 16:04:52 GMT
hammerstorm why the hell do you care if straight people are in the game? And seriously, if you don't want people to respond to your post or cause upset, why the hell even post it?
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Post by Kian on Mar 3, 2017 16:05:35 GMT
Indeed. People screaming "UNREALISTIC!!!" at the thought of numerous characters in a video game liking the same sex has always been a completely absurd argument to me. Complain about the lack of LGBT content and you get responses like, "Well, I know it sucks for you, but you have to remember that the devs are striving for realism here!" Meanwhile, Sara is bumping uglies with a purple squid cobra cat man and nobody cares. Since we are still on this idea that "realistic" is not working in games, I will now say something that will make people hate me, but I don't care anymore. Why do you care if there is lgbt in the game? It is "just a game". So in that regard, you should not care anymore about having lgbt npc in the game than having realistic things, because it is "just a game". Some people want npc that are realistic, that does not mean they don't want any lgbt in the game. But the fact that you have to claim that it is "just a game" to put in lgbt in it do not help in any way. Maybe you should stop act as it is a "life and death" matter and realise that it is "just a game". But I start to want Bioware to cut all romance in the games because nobody (no matter what sexuality) is apparently happy about anything! Now, do not respond to this post because I will not care to answer and it will only start a war and that will make the mods annoyed. Oh noes, the "it's just a game" argument. Never seen this nonsense before. So stumped. Very amazed.
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Post by Kian on Mar 3, 2017 16:06:45 GMT
The show thing makes sense if you tell it to someone str8. Considering they always have content and fanservice, and etc. It's pretty obvious what the point of that argument is. You're addressing that specific argument in the wrong direction with Dirkjake (as far as I can tell based on his posts). Or did you want to say something else and I missed it? Just woke up and I'm a bit hazy. Eh? Thought it was clear, was saying that if the straight player fanbase had to experience what we experience would they be happy about it, nadda they wouldn't. Shoe on the other foot. Oh I thought you were telling it the other way around, and I was a bit "what's going on? " Sorry
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Post by Crim on Mar 3, 2017 16:09:25 GMT
Anyways, I'm hoping we see Gil and Suvi in the new gameplay video, but it seems unlikely. If we see them at all, it'll probably be in the next/last cinematic trailer with Sara. Hopefully, Gil and Suvi will get their chance to shine in marketing before release. :kiss: What if we don't get to see em before launch? I'll be throwing some srs shade Bioware's way.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Mar 3, 2017 16:10:46 GMT
Since we are still on this idea that "realistic" is not working in games, I will now say something that will make people hate me, but I don't care anymore. Why do you care if there is lgbt in the game? It is "just a game". So in that regard, you should not care anymore about having lgbt npc in the game than having realistic things, because it is "just a game". Some people want npc that are realistic, that does not mean they don't want any lgbt in the game. But the fact that you have to claim that it is "just a game" to put in lgbt in it do not help in any way. Maybe you should stop act as it is a "life and death" matter and realise that it is "just a game". But I start to want Bioware to cut all romance in the games because nobody (no matter what sexuality) is apparently happy about anything! Now, do not respond to this post because I will not care to answer and it will only start a war and that will make the mods annoyed. Oh noes, the "it's just a game" argument. Never seen this nonsense before. So stumped. Very amazed. If it's just a game and doesn't matter, when we getting the game with little to no straight people?
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 3, 2017 16:10:53 GMT
Time to surrender 80% of my social circle. Too gay and unrealistic to exist.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Mar 3, 2017 16:12:04 GMT
Anyways, I'm hoping we see Gil and Suvi in the new gameplay video, but it seems unlikely. If we see them at all, it'll probably be in the next/last cinematic trailer with Sara. Hopefully, Gil and Suvi will get their chance to shine in marketing before release. :kiss: What if you don't get to see em before launch? I'll be throwing some srs shade Bioware's way. Then, I'll be super pissed off, and I won't be alone in that. Even Bioware has got to see the problem with marketing practically everyone besides the two gay people?
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