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Post by Catilina on Feb 20, 2017 23:00:41 GMT
Yeah, it's funny that word 'sad' has become something of a trigger for us female players in regards to romance (male gay ones too, though to a lesser extent, maybe? - though unfortunately that's because they've had less options to begin with). We automatically assume the worst, because so much tragic shit's been thrown our way. Like, we consider Cullen's romance a happy one, despite, as @beautesombre pointed out, there being a lot of sad elements. Same with Kaidan, if you consider the whole romance arc, especially as a female player (that sting of rejection, complete with letter about how he was almost over you (planned date included) until you went and ruined it by not actually dying, plus his behavior on Mars, has so far made me not able to continue his romance into ME3). Zevran has a tragic past thing and can betray and turn on you, and his romance is one of the more light-hearted ones. Even Garrus has a whole arc where his whole crew dies and he goes to this pretty dark place emotionally where he plots the murder of his former friend. And that's after you save him from a situation where he fully expects to die. I literally can't think of a single male romance in recent Bioware history that you couldn't be described in that way to some extent. So yeah, not too worried about Jaal, though I'm still planning to romance Liam first because he seems a bit... safer. Like, I feel like it'll be harder to screw things up with him through your choices in the game, as long as you at least play a good person. I get the sense Jaal might be more of a challenge to keep around. One I'm up for, but not until I've played the game once before so I can know what he's about. Alistair is still one of the worst if you play as anything but a noble. Anders with the Chantry. Solas with his hidden agenda. Blackwall with his lies. Bull can betray you. Jacob cheats on you. Thane dies. What's the problem with Anders romance? He only once lie, and Hawke even can refuse his ask. He never betray his/her, Hawke can betray Anders, and can kill him, can crush him, this not enough? And finally Hawke and Anders can live together happily, where is the problem? True love, exciting life, common goal, what need more to be happy? Okay, he's 2 in 1 and tainted, but nobody's perfect... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 23:04:05 GMT
Alistair is still one of the worst if you play as anything but a noble. Anders with the Chantry. Solas with his hidden agenda. Blackwall with his lies. Bull can betray you. Jacob cheats on you. Thane dies. What's the problem with Anders romance? He only once lie, and Hawke even can refuse his ask. He never betray his/her, Hawke can betray Anders, and can kill him, can crush him, this not enough? And finally Hawke and Anders can live together happily, where is the problem? True love, exciting life, common goal, what need more to be happy? Okay, he's 2 in 1 and tainted, but nobody's perfect... He used me to further his plans and then killed innocent people to prove a point. I cannot forgive that Justice or no Justice, nor could I trust him to remain stable. While some may like that, I find it unhealthy for a relationship. |
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Post by tehprincessj on Feb 20, 2017 23:07:33 GMT
Depending on your choices, Alistair wasn't really too bad, because you could just put Anora on the throne and everything was hunky-dory... but then DAI came out and threw Warden!Alistair on the chopping block. So even if dude-loving women manage a happy ending, there's no guarantee it won't be retconned in another game. OMG, that was the WORST. I CAN'T choose who lives and who dies between Alistair and my Hawke. I just can't. So yeah, I went on the Keep and all of my imported Alistairs are Kings, now. |
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Post by Dirk on Feb 20, 2017 23:10:02 GMT
I actually like Ander's romance because it is so dramatic. I like how my diplomatic Hawke saw him change throughout the acts and cannot do anything to help him from Justice. After the event at the Chantry, I find that Hawke willing to stay with him and become fugitives together very poignant.
And I am so glad I put Alistar out of Warden business. Choosing between him and Hawke would be too difficult for me.
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Post by chancemace on Feb 20, 2017 23:15:19 GMT
What's the problem with Anders romance? He only once lie, and Hawke even can refuse his ask. He never betray his/her, Hawke can betray Anders, and can kill him, can crush him, this not enough? And finally Hawke and Anders can live together happily, where is the problem? True love, exciting life, common goal, what need more to be happy? Okay, he's 2 in 1 and tainted, but nobody's perfect... That all depends on how you feel about what he did. Lying about something so big as to cause several deaths and using your affection for him as a tool for that end is betrayal. Now if you agree with what he is doing, then you feel it way less, but I was trying for peace. So not only did he make me complicit in murder of innocents, but also tricked me into betraying my own ideals of peace. And that is just as a friend. My fiance HATED him after that even though she enjoyed the romance up to that point because of how keenly she felt the betrayal. She felt the true tragedy of the game was Anders not being killed in Act 2, since she felt a lot of lives could have been saved, and Kirkwall and the rest of Thedas would be in a better place. |
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Post by Catilina on Feb 20, 2017 23:19:09 GMT
What's the problem with Anders romance? He only once lie, and Hawke even can refuse his ask. He never betray his/her, Hawke can betray Anders, and can kill him, can crush him, this not enough? And finally Hawke and Anders can live together happily, where is the problem? True love, exciting life, common goal, what need more to be happy? Okay, he's 2 in 1 and tainted, but nobody's perfect... He used me to further his plans and then killed innocent people to prove a point. I cannot forgive that Justice or no Justice, nor could I trust him to remain stable. While some may like that, I find it unhealthy for a relationship. If the goal is the same, then not unhealthy. He did not done any unforgivable. (Not for "prove a point", he said.) He just can't trust to anyone, true. This is hard, but later he told the truth. And Hawke can agree with him and support. But the point is, that if I get similar LI, I will be happy. He was one of the best for me ( I know, I'm the minority with this.). And Kaidan. Yes, he was much more "problem free", true, many people said, that Kaidan is boring... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 23:20:59 GMT
He used me to further his plans and then killed innocent people to prove a point. I cannot forgive that Justice or no Justice, nor could I trust him to remain stable. While some may like that, I find it unhealthy for a relationship. If the goal is the same, then not unhealthy. He did not done any unforgivable. (Not for "prove a point", he said.) He just can't trust to anyone, true. This is hard, but later he told the truth. And Hawke can agree with him and support. But the point is, that if I get similar LI, I will be happy. He was one of the best for me ( I know, I'm the minority with this.). And Kaidan. Yes, he was much more "problem free", true, many people said, that Kaidan is boring... Yeah but irl my trust has been used like that, so if a game character does it too, then it's a bit harder to RP it lol I don't see Jaal as an Anders, but I still get weird vibes from Cora I can't place and not the whole TIM thing either. |
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Post by jacquelinetheripper on Feb 20, 2017 23:24:21 GMT
I wonder, does Sebastian fall on the spectrum of "sad/angsty" romances? I've never romanced him before nor have I watched any videos pertaining to it but from what I read it seems relatively tame in terms of darker material? Aside from demanding you execute Anders/wanting to take over Kirkwall of course, but in the context of the romance itself?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 23:26:32 GMT
I wonder, does Sebastian fall on the spectrum of "sad/angsty" romances? I've never romanced him before nor have I watched any videos pertaining to it but from what I read it seems relatively tame in terms of darker material? Aside from demanding you execute Anders/wanting to take over Kirkwall of course, but in the context of the romance itself? The whole pure until marriage, angst over going home to be a prince or staying with you and then the famous choice still sort of add up too. I think if you exclude the one thing with Garrus and his revenge in ME2, he's the least troublesome of all the male relationships. He's your friend first everytime before your lover. |
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Post by Catilina on Feb 20, 2017 23:29:23 GMT
What's the problem with Anders romance? He only once lie, and Hawke even can refuse his ask. He never betray his/her, Hawke can betray Anders, and can kill him, can crush him, this not enough? And finally Hawke and Anders can live together happily, where is the problem? True love, exciting life, common goal, what need more to be happy? Okay, he's 2 in 1 and tainted, but nobody's perfect... That all depends on how you feel about what he did. Lying about something so big as to cause several deaths and using your affection for him as a tool for that end is betrayal. Now if you agree with what he is doing, then you feel it way less, but I was trying for peace. So not only did he make me complicit in murder of innocents, but also tricked me into betraying my own ideals of peace. And that is just as a friend. My fiance HATED him after that even though she enjoyed the romance up to that point because of how keenly she felt the betrayal. She felt the true tragedy of the game was Anders not being killed in Act 2, since she felt a lot of lives could have been saved, and Kirkwall and the rest of Thedas would be in a better place. Haha, this isn't true. Thedas is a corrupted, cruel place and Kirkwall is the icing on the cake, this revolution was very important. Burt I agree, Anders' tools is questionable, and I know well, that no matter what the Chantry did, how much innocent people killed by military leader / politician, Anders was guilty and made an unforgivable thing. He lied. Once. Many people considered him worse, than Loghain. |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 20, 2017 23:31:28 GMT
Say what you want about angst, but it makes for a compelling story imo. There's a reason why so many proclaimed Solas's romance to be one of the best Bioware romances.
I'm eager for some angsty, #problematic f/f romances that aren't angsty because it's gay or because one cheated on the other or because of one dying. I want some lesbian romances where the angst comes from its relation to the plot and the characters' inner conflict, if you get my meaning. Like Solas or Anders or Morrigan. Isabela's romance was great for that since she has the inner conflict, the sad backstory (which explains some of the things she disapproves of in the game and why she's so protective of other women), the tie to a major plotline with the Qunari, her facing the music if romanced because she has people she loves and cares about now.
Liara definitely had some angst too, but her character development should have been more gradual. And Samara's could have had a little more content.
It doesn't need to be every time or every character, but just some more options for that would be great. The way I see it, there should be a variety for people.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 20, 2017 23:37:07 GMT
I wonder, does Sebastian fall on the spectrum of "sad/angsty" romances? I've never romanced him before nor have I watched any videos pertaining to it but from what I read it seems relatively tame in terms of darker material? Aside from demanding you execute Anders/wanting to take over Kirkwall of course, but in the context of the romance itself? Sebastian can worse, than Anders, if Hawke refused to executing Anders, he threaten Kirkwall (not Anders or Hawke!), and three years later he fulfill his promise, and try to annex the bled Kirkwall... He abused his power, against innocents, for his personal revenge (not mentioned, he was even dumb... in his position). I don't know his romance. I like his character, it's interesting in many aspect, but not interested me as LI. |
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Post by chancemace on Feb 20, 2017 23:39:39 GMT
Say what you want about angst, but it makes for a compelling story imo. There's a reason why so many proclaimed Solas's romance to be one of the best Bioware romances. I'm eager for some angsty, #problematic f/f romances that aren't angsty because it's gay or because one cheated on the other or because of one dying. I want some lesbian romances where the angst comes from its relation to the plot and the characters' inner conflict, if you get my meaning. Like Solas or Anders or Morrigan. Isabela's romance was great for that since she has the inner conflict, the sad backstory (which explains some of the things she disapproves of in the game and why she's so protective of other women), the tie to a major plotline with the Qunari, her facing the music if romanced because she has people she loves and cares about now. Liara definitely had some angst too, but her character development should have been more gradual. And Samara's could have had a little more content. It doesn't need to be every time or every character, but just some more options for that would be great. The way I see it, there should be a variety for people. For me, I get so much angsty lesbian stuff from everything else, I would prefer it not be in Bioware. That said, I am just not fond of the happy, sweet lesbian options so far. I'm happy to have any option, but I miss Silk Fox and would prefer options that have a bit more bite to them. |
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Post by jacquelinetheripper on Feb 20, 2017 23:39:51 GMT
Agreed, I figured that's how it'll probably be. Glad devs got the whole squadmate deaths possibility out of the way, I plan on going into the romances blind —I do, however, want to know what their orientations are ahead of launch so I don't end up wasting my time pining after someone my character can't have— so ending up with a dead LI would kill me. Although, if we step back and look at it all, it could be more about perspective. A good majority of the Bioware romances (At least in ME and DA) can be seen as angsty in some form, especially with the male love interests. Thane dies, Jacob cheats, Fenris rejects you for half the game, there's the whole situation with Alistair being royalty/being a Grey Warden and where that leads him in Inquisition, Blackwall's whole premise, Iron Bull can betray you, and then, of course, there's Solas and Anders, both of which I don't feel the need to give an explanation For. There's more but I've already made quite the list. The person the original poster of the leak mentions could just be describing a romance that follows a somewhat run of the mill formula (Not that it won't be unique of course! Though the tropes could still be there). I guess what I'm saying is, is that if Jaal turns out to be an angsty romance then maybe I shouldn't be all that surprised really given Bioware's track record.... Yeah, it's funny that word 'sad' has become something of a trigger for us female players in regards to romance (male gay ones too, though to a lesser extent, maybe? - though unfortunately that's because they've had less options to begin with). We automatically assume the worst, because so much tragic shit's been thrown our way. Like, we consider Cullen's romance a happy one, despite, as @beautesombre pointed out, there being a lot of sad elements. Same with Kaidan, if you consider the whole romance arc, especially as a female player (that sting of rejection, complete with letter about how he was almost over you (planned date included) until you went and ruined it by not actually dying, plus his behavior on Mars, has so far made me not able to continue his romance into ME3). Zevran has a tragic past thing and can betray and turn on you, and his romance is one of the more light-hearted ones. Even Garrus has a whole arc where his whole crew dies and he goes to this pretty dark place emotionally where he plots the murder of his former friend. And that's after you save him from a situation where he fully expects to die. I literally can't think of a single male romance in recent Bioware history that you couldn't be described in that way to some extent. So yeah, not too worried about Jaal, though I'm still planning to romance Liam first because he seems a bit... safer. Like, I feel like it'll be harder to screw things up with him through your choices in the game, as long as you at least play a good person. I get the sense Jaal might be more of a challenge to keep around. One I'm up for, but not until I've played the game once before so I can know what he's about. Sighs, poor Garrus. Even though I consider him to have one of the more light-hearted romances in the Trilogy he still breaks my heart all the same. Even disregarding all the shit he goes in ME2, ME3 isn't a whole hell of a lot nicer to him. He's become something of a leader to his people because of "experience" with Reapers and it's pretty obvious the weight and pragmatism of the position weighs heavily on him, that coupled with his family's whereabouts being unknown for half the game. That's not even mentioning how ME3 heavily implies his mom dies sometime between ME2 & ME3 despite his huge donations to the medical research devoted to the disease she's implied to have as recorded in his Shadow Broker Dossier. Then Shepard goes off and dies (Or maybe doesn't if you chose Destroy), and regardless of whether or not they were in a romance with him, that means his closest friend is dead. |
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 20, 2017 23:44:28 GMT
Say what you want about angst, but it makes for a compelling story imo. There's a reason why so many proclaimed Solas's romance to be one of the best Bioware romances. I'm eager for some angsty, #problematic f/f romances that aren't angsty because it's gay or because one cheated on the other or because of one dying. I want some lesbian romances where the angst comes from its relation to the plot and the characters' inner conflict, if you get my meaning. Like Solas or Anders or Morrigan. Isabela's romance was great for that since she has the inner conflict, the sad backstory (which explains some of the things she disapproves of in the game and why she's so protective of other women), the tie to a major plotline with the Qunari, her facing the music if romanced because she has people she loves and cares about now. Liara definitely had some angst too, but her character development should have been more gradual. And Samara's could have had a little more content. It doesn't need to be every time or every character, but just some more options for that would be great. The way I see it, there should be a variety for people. For me, I get so much angsty lesbian stuff from everything else, I would prefer it not be in Bioware. That said, I am just not fond of the happy, sweet lesbian options so far. I'm happy to have any option, but I miss Silk Fox and would prefer options that have a bit more bite to them. If I don't get angst, I'd be more than willing to accept a less angsty romance with a complicated, serious female character.  Those are my type too. *gazes at a picture of Miranda, then Cassandra, then Jack, then Vivienne* I just want something, like you said, that I can get into more than just them being two girls and being all nice and sweet together. That said, I have faith in Sheryl Chee's writing! Leliana in Inquisition definitely had more bite to her, and so did Velanna and Isabela who were also written by Chee. |
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Post by jacquelinetheripper on Feb 20, 2017 23:44:43 GMT
I wonder, does Sebastian fall on the spectrum of "sad/angsty" romances? I've never romanced him before nor have I watched any videos pertaining to it but from what I read it seems relatively tame in terms of darker material? Aside from demanding you execute Anders/wanting to take over Kirkwall of course, but in the context of the romance itself? Sebastian can worse, than Anders, if Hawke refused to executing Anders, he threaten Kirkwall (not Anders or Hawke!), and three years later he fulfill his promise, and try to annex the bled Kirkwall... He abused his power, against innocents, for his personal revenge (not mentioned, he was even dumb... in his position). I don't know his romance. I like his character, it's interesting in many aspect, but not interested me as LI. Yikes, never mind. I've never actually had Sebastian in a playthrough so I wasn't all to familiar with his motives; only had to go on what I've read. |
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Post by jacquelinetheripper on Feb 20, 2017 23:50:07 GMT
I wonder, does Sebastian fall on the spectrum of "sad/angsty" romances? I've never romanced him before nor have I watched any videos pertaining to it but from what I read it seems relatively tame in terms of darker material? Aside from demanding you execute Anders/wanting to take over Kirkwall of course, but in the context of the romance itself? The whole pure until marriage, angst over going home to be a prince or staying with you and then the famous choice still sort of add up too. I think if you exclude the one thing with Garrus and his revenge in ME2, he's the least troublesome of all the male relationships. He's your friend first everytime before your lover. I see, never actually had Sebastian ingame so wasn't too sure where he stood. And Garrus, even though parts of his romance make me sad (especially the goodbye scene —God kill me please) he was most definitely one of the more lighthearted ones. Probably one of the reasons why he is my all time favorite romance, if my profile picture was any indication  . I have a huge weakness for best friends to lovers romances. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 23:53:45 GMT
The whole pure until marriage, angst over going home to be a prince or staying with you and then the famous choice still sort of add up too. I think if you exclude the one thing with Garrus and his revenge in ME2, he's the least troublesome of all the male relationships. He's your friend first everytime before your lover. I see, never actually had Sebastian ingame so wasn't too sure where he stood. And Garrus, even though parts of his romance make me sad (especially the goodbye scene —God kill me please) he was most definitely one of the more lighthearted ones. Probably one of the reasons why he is my all time favorite romance, if my profile picture was any indication . I have a huge weakness for best friends to lovers romances. Oh yeah and if you anger Seb by letting Anders live, he goes all out on Kirkwall and you need to save it in DAI. Yeah I love how you don't romance him in the first but form a friendship and then take steps to becoming more in ME2 and then make it official in ME3! |
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Post by jacquelinetheripper on Feb 21, 2017 0:01:53 GMT
I see, never actually had Sebastian ingame so wasn't too sure where he stood. And Garrus, even though parts of his romance make me sad (especially the goodbye scene —God kill me please) he was most definitely one of the more lighthearted ones. Probably one of the reasons why he is my all time favorite romance, if my profile picture was any indication . I have a huge weakness for best friends to lovers romances. Oh yeah and if you anger Seb by letting Anders live, he goes all out on Kirkwall and you need to save it in DAI. Yeah I love how you don't romance him in the first but form a friendship and then take steps to becoming more in ME2 and then make it official in ME3! Now that I think about it, I vaguely remember a tabletop mission that had you stopping Sebastian from invading Kirkwall. I recall one of the options being helping Aveline kick him out. Anyway, definitely agree with you on Garrus. It's one of the few reasons why I'm not all that salty concerning the fact he isn't an option in ME1. Granted, that was mostly due to the devs thinking no one would want to romance with a Turian, but I think that having us befriend him first made the romance all better perhaps even stronger if it weren't so. |
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Post by Elsariel on Feb 21, 2017 0:44:55 GMT
Depending on your choices, Alistair wasn't really too bad, because you could just put Anora on the throne and everything was hunky-dory... but then DAI came out and threw Warden!Alistair on the chopping block. So even if dude-loving women manage a happy ending, there's no guarantee it won't be retconned in another game. OMG, that was the WORST. I CAN'T choose who lives and who dies between Alistair and my Hawke. I just can't. So yeah, I went on the Keep and all of my imported Alistairs are Kings, now. Yeah, I was mightily upset when this choice came up in DAI. I ended up sacrificing my Hawke - She romanced Anders and I was unhappy at how that whole thing worked out so I thought, whelp, fork this, bye bye Hawke. 'Cause my Alistair sure as hell wasn't going to bite the bullet. *sigh* In the end, Varric's sad, sad face was intolerable so I went and changed my cannon in the keep to where my Solona Amell became his mistress instead. I still kind of hate that I had to do that. |
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Post by Catilina on Feb 21, 2017 0:55:41 GMT
OMG, that was the WORST. I CAN'T choose who lives and who dies between Alistair and my Hawke. I just can't. So yeah, I went on the Keep and all of my imported Alistairs are Kings, now. Yeah, I was mightily upset when this choice came up in DAI. I ended up sacrificing my Hawke - She romanced Anders and I was unhappy at how that whole thing worked out so I thought, whelp, fork this, bye bye Hawke. 'Cause my Alistair sure as hell wasn't going to bite the bullet. *sigh* In the end, Varric's sad, sad face was intolerable so I went and changed my cannon in the keep to where my Solona Amell became his mistress instead. I still kind of hate that I had to do that. Loghain can be useful. |
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Post by 10k on Feb 21, 2017 1:01:13 GMT
Damn it, I hope there are more human females for male Ryder. The only way I'll romance Cora is if she is in fact related to the illusive man. She just looks like an old woman to me.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Elsariel on Feb 21, 2017 1:04:55 GMT
Yeah, I was mightily upset when this choice came up in DAI. I ended up sacrificing my Hawke - She romanced Anders and I was unhappy at how that whole thing worked out so I thought, whelp, fork this, bye bye Hawke. 'Cause my Alistair sure as hell wasn't going to bite the bullet. *sigh* In the end, Varric's sad, sad face was intolerable so I went and changed my cannon in the keep to where my Solona Amell became his mistress instead. I still kind of hate that I had to do that. Loghain can be useful. I don't think you can spare Loghain and remain in a romance with Alistair so that's not an option for me. |
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Post by fialka on Feb 21, 2017 1:10:46 GMT
Alistair is still one of the worst if you play as anything but a noble. Anders with the Chantry. Solas with his hidden agenda. Blackwall with his lies. Bull can betray you. Jacob cheats on you. Thane dies. Oh, I know. As I said, that was me listing what I'd call the 'happy' romances.  Even they all have their sad moments, or the characters at least do. As for Anders... I can see it from both sides. My Hawke always forgives him and they run off together - whether she's horrified by what he's done but loves him too much to condemn him for it, or if she's a pro-mage radical that approves of his message, if not his methods. But... I still think what he does is horrific and his lying to her is a betrayal. Add to that his mental instability and the toll Justice takes on him... At best, the ending is bittersweet, but heavy on the bitter. Now, I love his romance, and find his story arc super compelling, but, as with the Solas romance (which I also love, for all it's heartbreak and it's uncertain future...) I'm just kinda done with these kind of romance plots for now. One game, Bioware. Just one game where all my romances with male LIs can at least end happily. You know, kinda like how every romance with a female LI you've ever done in ME/DA can?  |
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Post by Catilina on Feb 21, 2017 1:16:15 GMT
I don't think you can spare Loghain and remain in a romance with Alistair so that's not an option for me. You have a point. And I don't have warden Alistair. |
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Those are my type too. *gazes at a picture of Miranda, then Cassandra, then Jack, then Vivienne* I just want something, like you said, that I can get into more than just them being two girls and being all nice and sweet together. That said, I have faith in Sheryl Chee's writing! Leliana in Inquisition definitely had more bite to her, and so did Velanna and Isabela who were also written by Chee.
. I have a huge weakness for best friends to lovers romances.
Even they all have their sad moments, or the characters at least do.