Why the ending did not work (repost)

I thought Liara said this was a weapon capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction.

I don't think the Catalyst is really in control of the Destroy option. I had the impression that Destroy was what the Crucible was really designed to do (only option in certain low EMS situations), and Control and Synthesis were sort of these extra options the Catalyst could offer because from it's point of view it has already failed, whether the Crucible is fired or not. I only ever got all three options, and based on the presentation, Destroy always seemed like the one the Catalyst was just holding back with that chamber valve thing on the right, and Shepard could do what he normally does, shoot stuff to win, hurr hurr. It is the option one would chose if it was impossible to trust the Catalyst. Don't trust it? Go break something.

Thematically though, yeah, considering the convenient order of the options, the scenario comes across as designed by the Catalyst, so it appears to be in control of the situation. An alternative analysis is that you could look at the Catalyst more as an info terminal just communicating information on the Reapers and options to firing the Crucible.

I'll say a couple of extra things as criticism of the ending:

1) It fails to be clear, at a time when clarity is most necessary. Most of Mass Effect, though I find it fairly sophisticated, is pretty straight forward in the information it delivers. The Catalyst conversation is annoyingly allegorical, and weirdly poetic. Additionally, them notion that Shep would change all life without a full understanding of the how is a tad ridiculous.

2) Its the one conversation where you can't convince the other person of shit. Every other major confrontation conversation, including the one directly preceding the Catalyst with the Illusive Man, includes an option where Shepard can steer the conversation in the certain direction. Of course, with the Catalyst, Shep is speaking to a million year old AI, possibly chained, the closest thing to a god, or enslaved demi-god, so it is probably set in its opinion for good (with a million years of statistics to back up its position, along with a flow chart or two). Still, a persuade option somewhere in there would have been nice.

That's a couple of my many criticisms. I still like the ending though.

That's not the only complaint, but yes, that's a part of it, though not quite in the way it sounds when you say it. Specifically, the problem is not just that you can't win, but that you're forced into complicity with the Catalyst's plans - the antagonist, the entity responsible for the cycle and genocide in at least 700 cases, the entity you've been fighting since the start of the trilogy. I guess the Catalyst was intended to come across as more neutral, then the ending might have worked - if you can overlook the things that make no sense. It didn't, however. It is not some aloof god-like AI detached from the things that happened, it is the enemy.  

That's the point of the story though....the beautiful point of the story. Having to be forced to comply with the catalyst just means it's not a happy ending. Not sure why a happy ending is necessary.

You know, when you use other works as an inspiration in your game or media, it's suppose to be complementary.

When you straight up rip it off, it's a massive disservice bordering on plagiarism.

Now I have another reason to dislike the endings.

A happy ending isn't. Shepard dying is ok for me. The problem is, by being forced to be complicit with the Catalyst's plans you're *also* forced to enact solutions that associate uncomfortable with Reaper methods. You have to win *thematically*, even if you lose. Or at least, you need to not lose thematically, even if you don't win. Not when the price is the life of your civilization.

Thematically losing is also a type of unhappy ending, of which there are many examples of film, none of which make those films particularly bad films. Disliking the theme and being unhappy about it holds the same weight as being unhappy a character died. It is still logical.

Space magic isn't logical - therefore, yes, any of the space magic moments I count as "bad."

Well to me, I feel like the reapers had been hyped up, since the very beginning, as something inconceivably powerful. Beyond comprehension -something which had won for many cycles. And then in the Leviathan DLC, the leviathan talks about controlling the whole galaxy like a tool.

So a situation in which the reapers, even in the end, even when Shepard succeeds in getting to the top of the Citadel, still somehow orchestrates the end feels thematically consistent, because the theme of their being beyond us had already been established. I'd actually be more disappointed if the reapers didn't control the end in some way.

The fact Shepard even got to that point and that Shepard rallied all those races together is already something which Shepard could control. Getting to that point was a victory for him. Any more victory would be ineffable snowflake status, defeating the looming omniscience of the reapers.


**edit: I was going to say, Shepard defied those pompous claims, and 'disproved' the reapers' control in the endings of the first two games by having standard victories in the first two games.

However, even as Shepard won in the endings of the first two games - even as Shepard ran away while blowing up the collector base in the final cut scenes of Mass Effect 2 - Harbinger boasted and asserted that he had something up his sleeve. Although Shepard seemingly had a standard Hollywood win each time, Harbinger never went away.

So then, in a sense, taking a break from a pattern of standard blockbuster wins is a relief.

Ah sh*....yeah that's all jacked up ;___;

As an aside, I get the same feeling that the machines are in control every time I use the self-service checkout console at the grocery store and the theatre.

Quoting myself now lol

To reiterate: We are not complying with the Catalyst...


Or am I missing something?

The Crucible is a hack by organics. The culmination of eons of struggle against these reaper cycles. The Catalyst only knows what it is. It didn't create it.

It's even surprised you got as far as you did. "Clearly organics are more resourceful than we realized..." It didn't want you to get there in the first place.