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Post by straykat on Aug 23, 2016 7:23:32 GMT
The Crucible is a hack by organics. The culmination of eons of struggle against these reaper cycles. The Catalyst only knows what it is. It didn't create it. It's even surprised you got as far as you did. "Clearly organics are more resourceful than we realized..." It didn't want you to get there in the first place. That's why hundreds of Reapers watch passively how it's being docked to Citadel and then Catalyst has to lift barely walking Shepard to his chamber? Oookay. Once it knows you made it, it tries something else.... It doesn't have to order the Reapers to attack. It'll just try to screw your direction instead.
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Post by Turian Werewolf on Aug 23, 2016 19:03:31 GMT
OP gets at why the ending feels wrong.
It's too passive, with Shepard reacting instead of acting. That's why the game feels anticlimactic and unsatisfying...at least partly.
If they weren't so desperate to remake the ending of DEUS EX, the Catalyst ending could've been reworked so that your choices were being made IN SPITE of the machine.
That does't rectify the horribly WTF-inducing mish-mash of cutscenes that follow it, or the bland band aid offered by the extended cut, but it would be a start.
While I love 90% of Mass Effect 3, the ending is among the greatest narrative blunders I've ever experienced.
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Post by straykat on Aug 23, 2016 22:49:23 GMT
I have a bigger problem with Priority Earth.
And what I dislike about the Ending the most is how it drowned out all other complaints...and there are many. Bioware didn't hear any of that. All they heard was the Ending. As if they made a solid game, except the ending. Which they didn't.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Aug 24, 2016 1:42:58 GMT
I have a bigger problem with Priority Earth. And what I dislike about the Ending the most is how it drowned out all other complaints...and there are many. Bioware didn't hear any of that. All they heard was the Ending. As if they made a solid game, except the ending. Which they didn't. I'm pretty happy in general, but man, pacing was a MESS with Priority Earth. And, of course, it was sad not to see more from your assets/team.
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Post by Turian Werewolf on Aug 24, 2016 13:09:03 GMT
I have a bigger problem with Priority Earth. And what I dislike about the Ending the most is how it drowned out all other complaints...and there are many. Bioware didn't hear any of that. All they heard was the Ending. As if they made a solid game, except the ending. Which they didn't. Priority: Earth was a complete mess. Part of the reason it became difficult for media to properly convey the ending controversy was because there were too many things wrong with it. For some it was the baffling nature of the Catalyst, for others it was the post-decision narrative (or lack thereof), while others were angry that the final mission was an uninspired hoard mode. Priority: Earth needed to be like the Suicide Mission on steroids. Instead of your crew's success/failure like in ME2, it should've been your war assets helping in the final battle every step of the way. Your entire squad should've had objectives to accomplish (instead of the ones you don't choose staying on the Normandy lol), and entire species (as well as your crew) would get wiped out or survive depending on your choices. Priority: Earth should've been the culmination of not only the entire game, but the entire trilogy. Mass Effect 2's end run is one of the most satisfying in all of gaming, and P:E feels completely bland and uninspired. In many ways, it's a perfect setup for the narrative fail the player is about of experience once they reach the beam. In some ways, it's impressive how much BioWare bungled everything in the game as soon as Priority: Earth starts (although I liked the goodbyes a lot).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2016 13:09:30 GMT
Most companies usually take the feedback and use it to improve future products. They don't change ones that were previously released.
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Post by straykat on Aug 24, 2016 15:51:22 GMT
I have a bigger problem with Priority Earth. And what I dislike about the Ending the most is how it drowned out all other complaints...and there are many. Bioware didn't hear any of that. All they heard was the Ending. As if they made a solid game, except the ending. Which they didn't. Priority: Earth was a complete mess. Part of the reason it became difficult for media to properly convey the ending controversy was because there were too many things wrong with it. For some it was the baffling nature of the Catalyst, for others it was the post-decision narrative (or lack thereof), while others were angry that the final mission was an uninspired hoard mode. Priority: Earth needed to be like the Suicide Mission on steroids. Instead of your crew's success/failure like in ME2, it should've been your war assets helping in the final battle every step of the way. Your entire squad should've had objectives to accomplish (instead of the ones you don't choose staying on the Normandy lol), and entire species (as well as your crew) would get wiped out or survive depending on your choices. Priority: Earth should've been the culmination of not only the entire game, but the entire trilogy. Mass Effect 2's end run is one of the most satisfying in all of gaming, and P:E feels completely bland and uninspired. In many ways, it's a perfect setup for the narrative fail the player is about of experience once they reach the beam. In some ways, it's impressive how much BioWare bungled everything in the game as soon as Priority: Earth starts (although I liked the goodbyes a lot). The sad thing is is that I get the feeling they wanted some of this themselves. Like the hidden audio files of Jack and her kids, Grunt, Jacob, etc.. all doing battle on Earth. And that mysterious post by Weekes, where he thought there'd be more use of assets and cutscenes from the armies we gathered.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Aug 24, 2016 16:18:44 GMT
I have a bigger problem with Priority Earth. And what I dislike about the Ending the most is how it drowned out all other complaints...and there are many. Bioware didn't hear any of that. All they heard was the Ending. As if they made a solid game, except the ending. Which they didn't. Priority: Earth was a complete mess. Part of the reason it became difficult for media to properly convey the ending controversy was because there were too many things wrong with it. For some it was the baffling nature of the Catalyst, for others it was the post-decision narrative (or lack thereof), while others were angry that the final mission was an uninspired hoard mode. Priority: Earth needed to be like the Suicide Mission on steroids. Instead of your crew's success/failure like in ME2, it should've been your war assets helping in the final battle every step of the way. Your entire squad should've had objectives to accomplish (instead of the ones you don't choose staying on the Normandy lol), and entire species (as well as your crew) would get wiped out or survive depending on your choices. Priority: Earth should've been the culmination of not only the entire game, but the entire trilogy. Mass Effect 2's end run is one of the most satisfying in all of gaming, and P:E feels completely bland and uninspired. In many ways, it's a perfect setup for the narrative fail the player is about of experience once they reach the beam. In some ways, it's impressive how much BioWare bungled everything in the game as soon as Priority: Earth starts (although I liked the goodbyes a lot). The goodbyes are about the only part of that mission I like. I stop playing once I get to that point on my games now. After playing through the ending once I have no desire to finish again.
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Post by straykat on Aug 24, 2016 16:33:52 GMT
The goodbyes were weird to me too. And in that Weekes post I mentioned, even he thought they were weird. And he wrote some. He didn't like it was done through hologram.
In addition to other things, it tells me it was a rush job.
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Post by Turian Werewolf on Aug 24, 2016 17:51:18 GMT
The goodbyes were weird to me too. And in that Weekes post I mentioned, even he thought they were weird. And he wrote some. He didn't like it was done through hologram. In addition to other things, it tells me it was a rush job. I remember that infamous Weekes post. I had no trouble believing every word of it. Just a shame that the ending, of all things, is what got screwed up so badly.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 24, 2016 18:35:44 GMT
The goodbyes were weird to me too. And in that Weekes post I mentioned, even he thought they were weird. And he wrote some. He didn't like it was done through hologram. In addition to other things, it tells me it was a rush job. I'm sure I'm in a very small minority, but I don't agree with the goodbyes in London. They would've been better done on the Normandy as it flies to Earth. Shepard says to Anderson, "The more time we waste, is more time for the reapers to gather strength." So what was the purpose of having those goodbyes? Its time wasted while the fleets above are getting torn apart. Also the funny thing is the yellow pages guy is able to link Shepard with the ME2 squadmates with no problem. I guess Jack is the only person named Jack in the galaxy. And all of sudden everyone has a QEC at their location. I just skip the goodbyes so I can deal with the reapers.
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XBL Gamertag: Kaiju Soxay
PSN: Kaiju_-Sozay
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Post by Nightman on Aug 24, 2016 21:30:17 GMT
I had no problem with the ending. Shepard sacrificed so much, so why not make the ultimate sacrifice? also, there was some major foreshadowing leading up to it...such as the final calls to the teammates scene.
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Post by straykat on Aug 24, 2016 21:33:48 GMT
I had no problem with the ending. Shepard sacrificed so much, so why not make the ultimate sacrifice? also, there was some major foreshadowing leading up to it...such as the final calls to the teammates scene. Some of them. It depends what you believe in too. If you believe you're some important figure who needs to do grand gestures, then you do it. If you protest, and say you're just a "soldier" to Anderson or Coates, then maybe not. I think the whole ending and the game itself tries to screw with your head and make you stop accepting your own sense of humanity.
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Post by grallon on Aug 26, 2016 19:08:02 GMT
I don't know if people still put credence in the Indoctrination Theory but after finally getting into the ME series (through ME2), and watching loads of vids about the IT, I'm left with the question:
if Shepard never leaves Earth while having those hallucinations about the holo-child in the rubbles of London - who actually fires the crucible?
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Post by isaidlunch on Aug 26, 2016 23:11:17 GMT
A major issue with the ending is that the choices presented feel inconsistent with the rest of the game. Synthesis turns the synthetic subplot into a mess (were they alive all along? After the Rannoch upgrade? After Synthesis? I give up!) and gives off bad implications e.g. the Saren comparison. Control is even worse because you're forced into spending the entire game opposing Control and telling TIM how wrong he is for wanting it. You can't say anything in favor of Control until meeting the Catalyst, when Shepard suddenly changes his mind and is willing to consider it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2016 5:58:46 GMT
I don't know if people still put credence in the Indoctrination Theory but after finally getting into the ME series (through ME2), and watching loads of vids about the IT, I'm left with the question: if Shepard never leaves Earth while having those hallucinations about the holo-child in the rubbles of London - who actually fires the crucible? Shepard did. He makes the choice from within his mind to destroy the Reapers and they get destroyed. From the leaked script: CUTSCENE: The DEVICE docks with the Citadel, Shepard destroys the tubes resulting in the Reapers being destroyed. Earth is okay. Shepard survives.
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Post by Ieldra on Aug 27, 2016 12:50:09 GMT
The project leads said that "Shepard had to die". That's why originally, you couldn't get the "Shepard survives" scene without playing MP. It was intended as non-canonical by the two lead writers, if not by the whole team (there was apparently some dissonance).
Shepard dying is unpleasant and I don't like it, but it is a valid way to end the story. It is not a problem apart from being sad. As opposed to some of the other stuff that makes no sense (see the OP), is thematically non-fitting or appears to come out of a completely different story.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 28, 2016 0:55:09 GMT
I'm ok with the destroy + high ems ending. I found synthesis to be interesting but not what I overall wanted. The main thing was wanting to give Shepard a chance to start a family with the LI. Not possible if dead. I gave MEHEM a shot today. It's interesting but - and I can't quite put my finger on why - it didn't work for me. Maybe because Anderson died but everyone else got a happy ending? Not sure. Anyway,I'll stick with my breath scene and imagine he and Kaidan live happily ever after.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2016 4:27:16 GMT
The project leads said that "Shepard had to die". That's why originally, you couldn't get the "Shepard survives" scene without playing MP. It was intended as non-canonical by the two lead writers, if not by the whole team (there was apparently some dissonance). Shepard dying is unpleasant and I don't like it, but it is a valid way to end the story. It is not a problem apart from being sad. As opposed to some of the other stuff that makes no sense (see the OP), is thematically non-fitting or appears to come out of a completely different story. My personal beef is I wanted Shepard's survival to be an OPTION. If players wanted to kill off Shepard a la Grey Warden in Dragon Age Origins, I'd be fine with that. What's the point in making all of these different choices if Shepard's death is mandatory?
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Post by Romander on Aug 31, 2016 9:33:43 GMT
I don't understand. I read all of this stuff, about ME3 Ending. There were many Youtube videos about "Bioware Change Ending", they were posts on the BSN "Bioware Change Ending". I completed ME Trilogy, 2 days a go, and hell, this ending of beatiful journey in ME Universe ended so much bad. When I was in that ending Place, where you decide, I felt a bit, weird, for all those time I spend in game, trying to do everything good, helping, supporting people and waiting for like some-kind of Happy End or something like that I got 3 choices, which only Destroy is like choice I would make, but c'mon. In the ending movie, I was happy for few things, but I felt bad about Geth, EDI and other Synthethics. But seriously, from like 100+ hours I spend in game, all I see, is Shepard Breathing, and her love refusing to put his name in memorial wall. I'm really shocked, that for 4 (I guess) years, people wanted other ending, telling Bioware "Change this Ending", and all you get is the little explanation about how squadmates got to Normandy, and view of your love in memorial flashbacks etc? I don't remember name now, but some company, when released game, and people told them to "change ending", they have changed it, in some kind of dlc or something like that. And if People in ME, are still not satisfied, then why Bioware, doesn't make a DLC, where you have some other ending options etc. I don't know if it is like i wrote here, cause I have fresh wound from that "ending", but I feel, a bit...lied? I made so many choices to see only 3 option of ending this game. Dammit Bioware, thanks for ruining my view of happy ending of Commander Shepard story
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Post by straykat on Aug 31, 2016 9:37:37 GMT
The project leads said that "Shepard had to die". That's why originally, you couldn't get the "Shepard survives" scene without playing MP. It was intended as non-canonical by the two lead writers, if not by the whole team (there was apparently some dissonance). Shepard dying is unpleasant and I don't like it, but it is a valid way to end the story. It is not a problem apart from being sad. As opposed to some of the other stuff that makes no sense (see the OP), is thematically non-fitting or appears to come out of a completely different story. MP was part of the game. It's not in some other universe. And in the earliest scripts, there was a Shep surviving destroy planned. And some dev called it the Shep Lives ending. That said, I don't mind either.. but it doesn't need to happen. And it certainly doesn't need to happen in silly ways. I'd pick Destroy and still go out in a blaze of glory if I could. lol. If anything, because Chaos is GOOD. I destroyed the Council in ME1 too. All of these groups that need to micromanage and hover over everyone's lives need to go. But especially the Reapers.
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Post by Ieldra on Aug 31, 2016 10:19:05 GMT
If anything, because Chaos is GOOD. I destroyed the Council in ME1 too. All of these groups that need to micromanage and hover over everyone's lives need to go. Allow me to disagree. People need a measure of stability in their lives, or they will be so occupied with just surviving that nothing beyond that will ever get done. Also, the Council didn't micromanage and hover over everyone's lives, it set policies. It may not have had the best interests of everyone in mind, but then, who does? Who even can, with interests being as diverse as they are? For most people, I suspect, it was comfortably far away so they could ignore it as it ignored their personal lives. I'd prefer such a setup because smaller communities are *way* more likely to interfere with your life.
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Post by straykat on Aug 31, 2016 10:34:48 GMT
If anything, because Chaos is GOOD. I destroyed the Council in ME1 too. All of these groups that need to micromanage and hover over everyone's lives need to go. Allow me to disagree. People need a measure of stability in their lives, or they will be so occupied with just surviving that nothing beyond that will ever get done. Also, the Council didn't micromanage and hover over everyone's lives, it set policies. It may not have had the best interests of everyone in mind, but then, who does? Who even can, with interests being as diverse as they are? For most people, I suspect, it was comfortably far away so they could ignore it as it ignored their personal lives. I'd prefer such a setup because smaller communities are *way* more likely to interfere with your life. Directing evolution and the course of civilization is not offering just a measure of stability. This isn't so benign as a parent telling a kid to clean up their rooms. It's cockblocking on a galactic scale. If not cockblocking, then equally dumb measures in the opposite direction. Like the Krogan uplift. Which in turn requires more cockblocking. But like I said, it's even worse with the Reapers. Even with Shep's input with Synthesis or Control.. It's shooting for ideals. At the expense of everything else.. or what could be.. or what people even realize could be in the first place. Funnily, I'm just repeating the ending of Dune actually. Much better sci-fi imho.
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Post by Tonymac on Aug 31, 2016 11:41:41 GMT
If anything, because Chaos is GOOD. I destroyed the Council in ME1 too. All of these groups that need to micromanage and hover over everyone's lives need to go. Allow me to disagree. People need a measure of stability in their lives, or they will be so occupied with just surviving that nothing beyond that will ever get done. Also, the Council didn't micromanage and hover over everyone's lives, it set policies. It may not have had the best interests of everyone in mind, but then, who does? Who even can, with interests being as diverse as they are? For most people, I suspect, it was comfortably far away so they could ignore it as it ignored their personal lives. I'd prefer such a setup because smaller communities are *way* more likely to interfere with your life. This reminds me of a conversation with Shep and Ash on the Normandy in ME1 about how the Council might act as a stablalizing force to temper out our more agressinve human natures.
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Post by straykat on Aug 31, 2016 11:51:43 GMT
Allow me to disagree. People need a measure of stability in their lives, or they will be so occupied with just surviving that nothing beyond that will ever get done. Also, the Council didn't micromanage and hover over everyone's lives, it set policies. It may not have had the best interests of everyone in mind, but then, who does? Who even can, with interests being as diverse as they are? For most people, I suspect, it was comfortably far away so they could ignore it as it ignored their personal lives. I'd prefer such a setup because smaller communities are *way* more likely to interfere with your life. This reminds me of a conversation with Shep and Ash on the Normandy in ME1 about how the Council might act as a stablalizing force to temper out our more agressinve human natures. Hmm, never heard that. Shep can actually convince her of this? Sad. Sounds like the same bullshit Liara says to Shep... except Paragon does it to Ash instead.
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