inherit
3439
0
9,670
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,055
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Feb 10, 2017 17:04:13 GMT
I've got the entirety of ME3 backing me up. I don't agree. I've played ME3 more times than ME1 or ME2 and I started with ME1. The biggest complaint I've seen is about the Catalyst. I see it, too, but it's not breaking my heart of anything. I simply choose Red to stay in line with my original goal: Destroy the Reapers. Then I either headcanon a hallucination about the Catalyst (blood loss, barely conscious) or make use of MEHEM. Using headcanon may seem like a huge fail in the eyes of some but it also means I'm not angry. I'll take it over years of bitterness any day. I get the headcanon part, but what's the reason for staying with the original goal? It's not rational to mindlessly stick to your original goal just because it's your original goal, regardless of any new information you get.
|
|
inherit
Bookaholic: 1776 Edition
3148
0
Apr 16, 2019 17:41:17 GMT
3,352
fiannawolf
For I am the Reading Rainbow.
1,608
January 2017
fiannawolf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
N7 Ghostwolf
|
Post by fiannawolf on Feb 10, 2017 17:46:44 GMT
The catalyst is the pineapple I don't want on my ME pizza.
You trash pineapple program.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Feb 10, 2017 18:55:09 GMT
I don't agree. I've played ME3 more times than ME1 or ME2 and I started with ME1. The biggest complaint I've seen is about the Catalyst. I see it, too, but it's not breaking my heart of anything. I simply choose Red to stay in line with my original goal: Destroy the Reapers. Then I either headcanon a hallucination about the Catalyst (blood loss, barely conscious) or make use of MEHEM. Using headcanon may seem like a huge fail in the eyes of some but it also means I'm not angry. I'll take it over years of bitterness any day. I get the headcanon part, but what's the reason for staying with the original goal? It's not rational to mindlessly stick to your original goal just because it's your original goal, regardless of any new information you get. To me, it's the goal that makes the most sense. In my roleplay, Shepard assumes the Catalyst is trying to subvert me from my goal by offering up options that will benefit it in some way. I'm not interested in making peace with a thing that's killed uncounted trillions. I want it dead. To be honest, wouldn't a reality where the synthetics "won" be preferable to one in which organics are continuously indoctrinated, tortured and harvested? Then it would have been over and done with a billion years ago. I find any solution the Catalyst comes up with to be dubious, at best. So, yes, I'm sticking to my original goal. I'll risk the rise of new, dangerous synthetics for the opportunity to choose my own fate. I'm sure people have their own reasons for why they choose the other options (Control, Synthesis, Refusal). It's great if those things make sense to you but they don't to me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2543
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 19:12:20 GMT
I get the headcanon part, but what's the reason for staying with the original goal? It's not rational to mindlessly stick to your original goal just because it's your original goal, regardless of any new information you get. To me, it's the goal that makes the most sense. In my roleplay, Shepard assumes the Catalyst is trying to subvert me from my goal by offering up options that will benefit it in some way. I'm not interested in making peace with a thing that's killed uncounted trillions. I want it dead. To be honest, wouldn't a reality where the synthetics "won" be preferable to one in which organics are continuously indoctrinated, tortured and harvested? Then it would have been over and done with a billion years ago. I find any solution the Catalyst comes up with to be dubious, at best. So, yes, I'm sticking to my original goal. I'll risk the rise of new, dangerous synthetics for the opportunity to choose my own fate. I'm sure people have their own reasons for why they choose the other options (Control, Synthesis, Refusal). It's great if those things make sense to you but they don't to me. To me, though, there is a flaw there as well. If what the Catalyst tells you is dubious... why believe any part of it? Why believe that triggering the Destroy console will actually destroy the Reapers? To me, the Catalyst simply hasn't made enough effort to stop me from using that option for me to believe that it actually wants to stop me from using that option. I'm more inclined to believe that option was put in there just to tempt me further to still triggering the device, if I don't happen to fall for one of the other two.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Feb 10, 2017 19:18:27 GMT
To me, it's the goal that makes the most sense. In my roleplay, Shepard assumes the Catalyst is trying to subvert me from my goal by offering up options that will benefit it in some way. I'm not interested in making peace with a thing that's killed uncounted trillions. I want it dead. To be honest, wouldn't a reality where the synthetics "won" be preferable to one in which organics are continuously indoctrinated, tortured and harvested? Then it would have been over and done with a billion years ago. I find any solution the Catalyst comes up with to be dubious, at best. So, yes, I'm sticking to my original goal. I'll risk the rise of new, dangerous synthetics for the opportunity to choose my own fate. I'm sure people have their own reasons for why they choose the other options (Control, Synthesis, Refusal). It's great if those things make sense to you but they don't to me. To me, though, there is a flaw there as well. If what the Catalyst tells you is dubious... why believe any part of it? Why believe that triggering the Destroy console will actually destroy the Reapers? To me, the Catalyst simply hasn't made enough effort to stop me from using that option for me to believe that it actually wants to stop me from using that option. I'm more inclined to believe that option was put in there just to tempt me further to still triggering the device, if I don't happen to fall for one of the other two. Maybe, but that's the only option you have. Worst case, it doesn't do that and you've lost nothing. Because if Destroy doesn't work than neither would anything else.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2543
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 19:24:01 GMT
To me, though, there is a flaw there as well. If what the Catalyst tells you is dubious... why believe any part of it? Why believe that triggering the Destroy console will actually destroy the Reapers? To me, the Catalyst simply hasn't made enough effort to stop me from using that option for me to believe that it actually wants to stop me from using that option. I'm more inclined to believe that option was put in there just to tempt me further to still triggering the device, if I don't happen to fall for one of the other two. Maybe, but that's the only option you have. Worst case, it doesn't do that and you've lost nothing. Because if Destroy doesn't work than neither would anything else. Except that the harvest could take centuries to complete (based on previous harvests)... more time = more time to find an actual solution. I'm NOT criticizing your choice... I choose destroy a lot of the time. Each option has it's drawbacks... a cost in terms of collateral damages and a significant risk. It really just comes down to what each individual player chooses to believe.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Feb 10, 2017 19:40:12 GMT
Maybe, but that's the only option you have. Worst case, it doesn't do that and you've lost nothing. Because if Destroy doesn't work than neither would anything else. Except that the harvest could take centuries to complete (based on previous harvests)... more time = more time to find an actual solution. I'm NOT criticizing your choice... I choose destroy a lot of the time. Each option has it's drawbacks... a cost in terms of collateral damages and a significant risk. It really just comes down to what each individual player chooses to believe.Maybe. Based on at least a billion years worth of evidence, it's unlikely that another option exists. The game hammers home the idea that the war can't be won conventionally. And centuries later (assuming we get that much time), resources are basically down to zero. Your last sentence says it all. I thought in a prior post I said much the same thing about this is how I roleplay. It makes the most sense to me from an in-the-moment perspective. Here's the RP logic that usually comes to mind: I'm beaten and bloody, barely able to stand, bleeding out and all I know is Hackett just told me that the Crucible didn't fire. My only focus is to make it fire. Then this hologram out of my nightmares shows up to tell me there are other options. The fact that it looks like something that's been haunting me automatically makes me suspicious. That means that, despite what it's saying, I can only focus on the orders of someone I do trust. That's Hackett and it was Anderson (who had the same goal). I go for the Red. That's what I choose to believe.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,670
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,055
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Feb 10, 2017 20:05:26 GMT
To me, though, there is a flaw there as well. If what the Catalyst tells you is dubious... why believe any part of it? Why believe that triggering the Destroy console will actually destroy the Reapers? To me, the Catalyst simply hasn't made enough effort to stop me from using that option for me to believe that it actually wants to stop me from using that option. I'm more inclined to believe that option was put in there just to tempt me further to still triggering the device, if I don't happen to fall for one of the other two. Meaning that there's no rational place to stop short of Refuse, once you start doubting stuff?
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,670
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,055
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Feb 10, 2017 20:09:19 GMT
Maybe, but that's the only option you have. Worst case, it doesn't do that and you've lost nothing. Because if Destroy doesn't work than neither would anything else. This is incoherent. You "have" Destroy in exactly the same way and to exactly the same extent as you "have" Control and Synthesis. And if any of the options were to be a fraud or a trap, Destroy would be the obvious choice to be the trap.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Feb 10, 2017 20:48:17 GMT
Maybe, but that's the only option you have. Worst case, it doesn't do that and you've lost nothing. Because if Destroy doesn't work than neither would anything else. This is incoherent. You "have" Destroy in exactly the same way and to exactly the same extent as you "have" Control and Synthesis. And if any of the options were to be a fraud or a trap, Destroy would be the obvious choice to be the trap. We clearly see things differently.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2543
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 21:12:16 GMT
To me, though, there is a flaw there as well. If what the Catalyst tells you is dubious... why believe any part of it? Why believe that triggering the Destroy console will actually destroy the Reapers? To me, the Catalyst simply hasn't made enough effort to stop me from using that option for me to believe that it actually wants to stop me from using that option. I'm more inclined to believe that option was put in there just to tempt me further to still triggering the device, if I don't happen to fall for one of the other two. Meaning that there's no rational place to stop short of Refuse, once you start doubting stuff? It's a question - Why believe any part of it? You're welcome to give me a rational answer. What is it that makes you able to trust that the Catalyst is giving you the straight goods on the Destroy button, but not trust that he's giving you the straight goods on the other two? I've been chastised for believing that Control Shepard can "do as he sees fit" by taking over control, ordering all the Reapers to just stop shooting back, and let the Alliance and other fleets just destroy them all. If I can believe what the Catalyst says about Destroy, why can't I believe what he says about Control?
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,670
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,055
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Feb 10, 2017 21:23:29 GMT
I can't and don't. My Shepards believe all of it equally, to whatever extent they believe any of it.
In practice, though, merely doubting the Catalyst doesn't really get you all the way to Refuse. Refuse doesn't get you anyplace better than believing in a fake choice would, except maybe in some sort of trivial moral victory sense. Since Refuse is a total failure anyway, might as well just act as if the choices are real even if you think that the choices likely are not real.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Nov 26, 2024 12:38:10 GMT
26,299
themikefest
15,635
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Feb 10, 2017 21:25:02 GMT
Whether or not I trust the thing, I choose destroy. I have no reason to choose the others
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,670
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,055
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Feb 10, 2017 21:27:02 GMT
This is incoherent. You "have" Destroy in exactly the same way and to exactly the same extent as you "have" Control and Synthesis. And if any of the options were to be a fraud or a trap, Destroy would be the obvious choice to be the trap. We clearly see things differently. I was raising a point of logic there. We shouldn't be able to see that differently. Unless your Shepards don't use logic, which is certainly within your right as a matter of RP.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Feb 10, 2017 21:36:18 GMT
We clearly see things differently. I was raising a point of logic there. We shouldn't be able to see that differently. Unless your Shepards don't use logic, which is certainly within your right as a matter of RP. I think what themikefest said in the post above yours is what it comes down to for me. I gave an extended RP reasoning behind it in another post. I'm not rehashing it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2543
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 21:39:28 GMT
I can't and don't. My Shepards believe all of it equally, to whatever extent they believe any of it. In practice, though, merely doubting the Catalyst doesn't really get you all the way to Refuse. Refuse doesn't get you anyplace better than believing in a fake choice would, except maybe in some sort of trivial moral victory sense. Since Refuse is a total failure anyway, might as well just act as if the choices are real even if you think that the choices likely are not real. What gets me to Refuse as a viable choice (note - I'm not saying the only rational choice - which is what you previously accused me of) has nothing to do with what the Catalyst says. Javik tells me that it took centuries for the Reapers to harvest the Protheans and that a flaw in the Prothean empire was that everyone eventually just thought like a Prothean (i.e. they assimilated everyone). Javik tells me that our best hope might be that we've come together but that each race has maintained it's uniqueness... and then there's the fact that the Protheans did do two things: 1) they did get 1 Prothean to survive the harvest in cryostasis. 2) they managed to alter the Citadel signal in such a way that the keepers would not respond to it. So, if I think the Crucible is a trap, maybe my best remaining option is to just let this cycle have more time to come up with it's own unique solution. It's a risk... but if one suspects a trap... not setting the trap off would be rational, wouldn't it? Perhaps an analogy with the shell game... If you're looking for a pea under one of three walnuts, but there is actually no pea under any of them... is choosing a walnut the best option? Or is it better to just save your money and try to find a different game with even marginally better odds? (BTW - has ANYONE ever won the shell game in the Citadel DLC?)
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Feb 10, 2017 22:10:22 GMT
Perhaps an analogy with the shell game... If you're looking for a pea under one of three walnuts, but there is actually no pea under any of them... is choosing a walnut the best option? Or is it better to just save your money and try to find a different game with even marginally better odds? (BTW - has ANYONE ever won the shell game in the Citadel DLC?) Yes, but it takes careful watching. As to the other, that sounds more like a reason not the buy ME3.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2543
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 22:24:10 GMT
Perhaps an analogy with the shell game... If you're looking for a pea under one of three walnuts, but there is actually no pea under any of them... is choosing a walnut the best option? Or is it better to just save your money and try to find a different game with even marginally better odds? (BTW - has ANYONE ever won the shell game in the Citadel DLC?) Yes, but it takes careful watching. As to the other, that sounds more like a reason not the buy ME3. ...not following there... not buy ME3 or not buy "From Ashes"? Why is it that Destroy people always try to make it out that their choice is the only rational one? I've already said that I'm not putting Refuse out there as the only rational choice... just saying that there can be a rationale for choosing it just as much as there can be a rationale for choosing any of the others. Go ahead, choose Destroy... I don't knock you for it. I sometimes choose it myself... just don't knock me and, in effect, call me "irrational" for sometimes choosing something else.
|
|
inherit
2608
0
May 28, 2017 10:42:47 GMT
72
anehforaneh
66
January 2017
anehforaneh
|
Post by anehforaneh on Feb 10, 2017 22:36:12 GMT
Meaning that there's no rational place to stop short of Refuse, once you start doubting stuff? It's a question - Why believe any part of it? You're welcome to give me a rational answer. What is it that makes you able to trust that the Catalyst is giving you the straight goods on the Destroy button, but not trust that he's giving you the straight goods on the other two? I've been chastised for believing that Control Shepard can "do as he sees fit" by taking over control, ordering all the Reapers to just stop shooting back, and let the Alliance and other fleets just destroy them all. If I can believe what the Catalyst says about Destroy, why can't I believe what he says about Control? In DMC's defense, the answer can be found in the actual cinematic. Suppose you head cannon the Child telling you, "Push that button to destroy us all," then we see Shepard shooting at the machine like a madman. As inplausible as it may seem, that creates an undesired effect (from Child's perspective, assuming it is all a trap) that actually does end up destroying the Reapers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2543
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 22:59:25 GMT
It's a question - Why believe any part of it? You're welcome to give me a rational answer. What is it that makes you able to trust that the Catalyst is giving you the straight goods on the Destroy button, but not trust that he's giving you the straight goods on the other two? I've been chastised for believing that Control Shepard can "do as he sees fit" by taking over control, ordering all the Reapers to just stop shooting back, and let the Alliance and other fleets just destroy them all. If I can believe what the Catalyst says about Destroy, why can't I believe what he says about Control? In DMC's defense, the answer can be found in the actual cinematic. Suppose you head cannon the Child telling you, "Push that button to destroy us all," then we see Shepard shooting at the machine like a madman. As inplausible as it may seem, that creates an undesired effect (from Child's perspective, assuming it is all a trap) that actually does end up destroying the Reapers. The Pre-EC ending doesn't have the cinematic... that's why I prefer the pre-EC ending. It's more open to being a little bit imaginative about what might happen after. Also, if you're making the choice based on what you know the game will do... isn't that metagaming rather than roleplaying? The Refuse ending, though, wasn't actually put in until after the EC went in. When refuse is triggered, we do see Liara's little device being activated and her giving a speech about how this cycle failed (which was obviously recorded beforehand... sort of an "if you're reading this, I must be dead" recording that somewhat stumbles across while the person is actually still alive... remember Kolyat and Thane in ME2). However, we don't actually see who activates it nor are we actually shown slides of a post-harvested galaxy. With those devices having been scattered all over the galaxy... whose to say it isn't a human just stumbling across the device and activating it even though the harvest was eventually thwarted?
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 10, 2017 23:57:14 GMT
This is incoherent. You "have" Destroy in exactly the same way and to exactly the same extent as you "have" Control and Synthesis. And if any of the options were to be a fraud or a trap, Destroy would be the obvious choice to be the trap. We clearly see things differently. And yet it simply doesn't make any sense to assume the Catalyst is telling the truth about Destroy but lying it's non existing ass off about the other options.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Feb 11, 2017 4:42:38 GMT
Yes, but it takes careful watching. As to the other, that sounds more like a reason not the buy ME3. ...not following there... not buy ME3 or not buy "From Ashes"? Why is it that Destroy people always try to make it out that their choice is the only rational one? I've already said that I'm not putting Refuse out there as the only rational choice... just saying that there can be a rationale for choosing it just as much as there can be a rationale for choosing any of the others. Go ahead, choose Destroy... I don't knock you for it. I sometimes choose it myself... just don't knock me and, in effect, call me "irrational" for sometimes choosing something else. I don't know that Destroy is the only rational choice but I understand why it makes the most sense to me. I was sort of joking about the reason not to buy ME3. You mentioned the shell game and why not choose another game where you might win - comparing the three shells to RGB. Sorry if that fell flat.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Feb 11, 2017 4:44:25 GMT
We clearly see things differently. And yet it simply doesn't make any sense to assume the Catalyst is telling the truth about Destroy but lying it's non existing ass off about the other options. I don't think it's lying per se, just that it wants me to choose solutions that are more beneficial to it. It may see those options as desirable, but it also saw murdering organics for a billion years as a positive thing. I might question its judgment.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2543
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:51:11 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 8:03:20 GMT
...not following there... not buy ME3 or not buy "From Ashes"? Why is it that Destroy people always try to make it out that their choice is the only rational one? I've already said that I'm not putting Refuse out there as the only rational choice... just saying that there can be a rationale for choosing it just as much as there can be a rationale for choosing any of the others. Go ahead, choose Destroy... I don't knock you for it. I sometimes choose it myself... just don't knock me and, in effect, call me "irrational" for sometimes choosing something else. I don't know that Destroy is the only rational choice but I understand why it makes the most sense to me. I was sort of joking about the reason not to buy ME3. You mentioned the shell game and why not choose another game where you might win - comparing the three shells to RGB. Sorry if that fell flat. Sorry I missed your punch line on that one... my bad... and I certainly accept why Destroy makes the most sense to you.
|
|
inherit
738
0
4,633
Link"Guess"ski
3,882
August 2016
linkenski
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Linkenski
asblinkenski
Linkenski
|
Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 11, 2017 16:23:56 GMT
And yet it simply doesn't make any sense to assume the Catalyst is telling the truth about Destroy but lying it's non existing ass off about the other options. I don't think it's lying per se, just that it wants me to choose solutions that are more beneficial to it. It may see those options as desirable, but it also saw murdering organics for a billion years as a positive thing. I might question its judgment. I never saw this as the intended theme but they did sorta make it more ambiguous after EC was made. If what he tells you about organics and synthetics is true, then the choices as they're presented make sense as to why Destroy is bad, Control is okay and Synthesis is the main solution to the problem. This is what BioWare actually believed their ending was about when just Casey and Mac wrote it. They had forgotten the context of the prior narrative to create an isolated "meaningful" story as the ending or an artistic vision as they called it -- this was their message and the idea that Casey had in mind for the entire thing apparently. Then think about the actual ending sequence for a sec. I know Shepard takes a breath in the high-EMS destroy ending, but that entire Jungle-planet sequence? That's solely directed in the way it is and ever was to showcase the ramification of Synthesis. It's Joker and EDI in the Garden of Eden playing Adam and Eve in a newly born world that get together to continue life in its newborn way. Without that hug and that outlook over an almost dreamlike jungle planet with half-synthetic nature the scene is strangely empty and unresonanting. Though, I believe the "dreamlike" qualities of the original ending was also BioWare's way of fading out what is canon and replacing it with what they believed to be a sort of vision about what the story could mean and that's why everything is suddenly so purely symbolic and you almost couldn't tell if anything was real or not from the moment Shepard goes up that floating beam-elevator right as you think he was about to die (and they removed the beam from the elevator in the EC btw). I sometimes think maybe Casey was just playing director. Mac wrote his draft for an end scenario and Casey told him to cut it down left and right until it became a properly "denoument"-feeling but without questioning how poorly the context of the scene matched the plot of the overall series, and that's where the original ending was so unsatisfying and confusing - it totally WAS a denoument when the Catalyst tells you it's all about organics and synthetics, as if to say that was what BioWare thought their story was about if you were to reduce it to its core element.
|
|