inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 22, 2017 13:08:26 GMT
Orbital Bombardment of a planet into a burned out husk that can't support life. With the nearest planet nearby being several hundred light years away. With the very easy ability to tell that it might support life by simply looking at it. You know does it support any type of planet or animal life? If yes glass the planet, rinse and repeat. Hell the only reason the Quarians are still around in any form because the Geth willingly let them go. If the Geth were capable of an all out complete genocide of all Quarian life war, Then the Reapers who are 100x more advance and 100x more ruthless then the Geth would be capable of same thing. Now your just grasping for stuff by using selecting bits of dialogue rather then looking at entire script. Us and in the plural form of the Catalyst and everything connected to it. Hence why in movies or video games or books when bad guy is doing bad guy things wanting to wipe out a family, town, etc they will some times ask why are you doing this to us. The us meaning the entire group being effected not just Steve. Others will be destroyed as well which is directly followed up literally 5 words later by all synthetics will be targeted. Making it very clear that not just the Reapers will be targeted but all synthetics which would include the Geth if you you have them with you. Shepard's doubt really doesn't matter. People can doubt a lot of stuff. Case in point people doubt that dinosaurs existed even after you show them fossil record of them. Shepard himself doesn't understand the basis of the Crucible and the doubt is more in fitting with atmosphere and tone of the talk then any legitimate calling bullish-it on the whole thing. You still have to be sure to hit absolutely every planet the life you're trying to exterminate exists on... and, as shown by the continued existence of Leviathan and 1 particular Prothean, it's something that the Reapers have failed to do twice. Their weakness in this is that, as you say, they want to allow something to continue... so a simple way to ensure that some of the members of the targeted species survive would be to hide members in stasis on planets that the Reapers are simply unwilling to bombard. You can burn the termites out of your house, but you haven't killed all the termites unless you burn down your neighbor's house too... and his neighbor's house, etc. It's not an easy thing to do... and you said specifically that it was easy. The post-EC dialogue is clearly "softer" on the issue of wiping out synthetics than the pre-EC one. Shepard's doubts do matter to Shepard... who is the one making the decision. Leviathan survived by going to an empty planet then restricting all technology and creating an EMP like shield to disable all ships that land on it to keep it dead looking. Javik survived by sheer dumb luck as did the Protheans on Illos. But even then their survival is all based on the fact the Reapers fight with kid gloves. The fact there are even still Prothean ruins on Feros to be found shows how light their touch is. The difference is an energy wave that targets and disrupts technology is incapable of picking and choosing what and how much damage it will do. If you set off an EMP near a hospital it will not choose to only effect people not in intensive care or undergoing live saving surgery. It will burn out the electronics on all systems within it's radius. Yes because I bet players were complaining about the effect of it. The very natural and obvious effect were choosing to destroy the Reapers also causes millions if not billions of casualties to the organic races of the galaxy. Yes but the doubts don't go so far to suggest that there are secretly extra Reapers hiding in darkspace or that it will only selectively destroy a handful of Reapers. Or any of the conspiracy theory like ideas you have put forth so far.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2543
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:36:25 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:36:25 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 14:26:16 GMT
You still have to be sure to hit absolutely every planet the life you're trying to exterminate exists on... and, as shown by the continued existence of Leviathan and 1 particular Prothean, it's something that the Reapers have failed to do twice. Their weakness in this is that, as you say, they want to allow something to continue... so a simple way to ensure that some of the members of the targeted species survive would be to hide members in stasis on planets that the Reapers are simply unwilling to bombard. You can burn the termites out of your house, but you haven't killed all the termites unless you burn down your neighbor's house too... and his neighbor's house, etc. It's not an easy thing to do... and you said specifically that it was easy. The post-EC dialogue is clearly "softer" on the issue of wiping out synthetics than the pre-EC one. Shepard's doubts do matter to Shepard... who is the one making the decision. Leviathan survived by going to an empty planet then restricting all technology and creating an EMP like shield to disable all ships that land on it to keep it dead looking. Javik survived by sheer dumb luck as did the Protheans on Illos. But even then their survival is all based on the fact the Reapers fight with kid gloves. The fact there are even still Prothean ruins on Feros to be found shows how light their touch is. The difference is an energy wave that targets and disrupts technology is incapable of picking and choosing what and how much damage it will do. If you set off an EMP near a hospital it will not choose to only effect people not in intensive care or undergoing live saving surgery. It will burn out the electronics on all systems within it's radius. Yes because I bet players were complaining about the effect of it. The very natural and obvious effect were choosing to destroy the Reapers also causes millions if not billions of casualties to the organic races of the galaxy. Yes but the doubts don't go so far to suggest that there are secretly extra Reapers hiding in darkspace or that it will only selectively destroy a handful of Reapers. Or any of the conspiracy theory like ideas you have put forth so far. Leviathan survived just like some termites do... moving over to a different place. The point is that some survived. The Reapers were not successful in eliminating every single ant in two separate cycles. That's a fact presented in the game. It's also a philosophical fact that it's just not easy to destroy every single ant regardless of the method used. I'm not suggest that the wave would "selectively destroy only a handful of Reapers" but that doesn't preclude the wave just "missing some." Even a raging forest fire misses some trees... it's not selective when it does so; but neither is it so completely thorough that it kills absolutely everything either. In literature, most post-apolyptic stories rely on that idea... that someone survives regardless of the size of the nuke dropped on the planet. Why, all of a sudden, should I believe that a single crucible would be so effective as to eliminate every single Reaper across an entire galaxy with 100% certainly that absolutely none would survive... just because that's what the success of the destroy ending depends on? My response... How convenient! Shepard's doubt expressed in the pre-EC ending is completely ambiguous and therefore open to whatever the player imagines it to be. I honestly don't care what ending you select and how you might rationalize it. This one leaves an opening for me to rationalize selecting that ending in a different way. Nothing says I have to select the same endings everyone else does for the same reasons everyone else does... or else it wouldn't matter if Bioware didn't write any player agency into their stories at all because all the peer pressure that goes on around here would just override it all anyways.
|
|
vanguarddoken
N2
I am the Adept! I casts the biotics that makes the peoples fly up!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 116 Likes: 221
inherit
3672
0
Feb 26, 2017 15:04:30 GMT
221
vanguarddoken
I am the Adept! I casts the biotics that makes the peoples fly up!
116
February 2017
vanguarddoken
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
|
Post by vanguarddoken on Feb 22, 2017 16:27:04 GMT
No, this won't be a post moaning about the endings. We all know. They suck. Whatever. Much like any Retaker, OP proves themselves a colossal liar in the first line of their post.
|
|
inherit
3134
0
79
Transcendent
78
Jan 30, 2017 19:00:27 GMT
January 2017
transcendent
|
Post by Transcendent on Feb 22, 2017 18:09:08 GMT
No, this won't be a post moaning about the endings. We all know. They suck. Whatever. Much like any Retaker, OP proves themselves a colossal liar in the first line of their post. If you read the rest of the post, you would know that is not the case. But I admire your stubbornness to look for a fight that isn't there.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Feb 23, 2017 0:17:57 GMT
That right there. If the Crucible doesn't work without the Citadel, then it's a "necessary component". If the Intelligence is directing everything it can do (and it is), it strongly suggests it was an integral part of its design - even if the people who have contributed to it were unaware. The Citadel is a necessary component but they don't know about the AI living on it. If they build it to interact with Citadel systems then they inadvertently build it to interact with AI systems since it is a part of it. Yes, that was something suggested in my original post.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 23, 2017 20:43:02 GMT
Leviathan survived by going to an empty planet then restricting all technology and creating an EMP like shield to disable all ships that land on it to keep it dead looking. Javik survived by sheer dumb luck as did the Protheans on Illos. But even then their survival is all based on the fact the Reapers fight with kid gloves. The fact there are even still Prothean ruins on Feros to be found shows how light their touch is. The difference is an energy wave that targets and disrupts technology is incapable of picking and choosing what and how much damage it will do. If you set off an EMP near a hospital it will not choose to only effect people not in intensive care or undergoing live saving surgery. It will burn out the electronics on all systems within it's radius. Yes because I bet players were complaining about the effect of it. The very natural and obvious effect were choosing to destroy the Reapers also causes millions if not billions of casualties to the organic races of the galaxy. Yes but the doubts don't go so far to suggest that there are secretly extra Reapers hiding in darkspace or that it will only selectively destroy a handful of Reapers. Or any of the conspiracy theory like ideas you have put forth so far. Leviathan survived just like some termites do... moving over to a different place. The point is that some survived. The Reapers were not successful in eliminating every single ant in two separate cycles. That's a fact presented in the game. It's also a philosophical fact that it's just not easy to destroy every single ant regardless of the method used. I'm not suggest that the wave would "selectively destroy only a handful of Reapers" but that doesn't preclude the wave just "missing some." Even a raging forest fire misses some trees... it's not selective when it does so; but neither is it so completely thorough that it kills absolutely everything either. In literature, most post-apolyptic stories rely on that idea... that someone survives regardless of the size of the nuke dropped on the planet. Why, all of a sudden, should I believe that a single crucible would be so effective as to eliminate every single Reaper across an entire galaxy with 100% certainly that absolutely none would survive... just because that's what the success of the destroy ending depends on? My response... How convenient! Shepard's doubt expressed in the pre-EC ending is completely ambiguous and therefore open to whatever the player imagines it to be. I honestly don't care what ending you select and how you might rationalize it. This one leaves an opening for me to rationalize selecting that ending in a different way. Nothing says I have to select the same endings everyone else does for the same reasons everyone else does... or else it wouldn't matter if Bioware didn't write any player agency into their stories at all because all the peer pressure that goes on around here would just override it all anyways. And yet the game explicitly shows the wave of all 3 kinds literally covering the entire galaxy. The Reapers are pulling the equivalent of trying to step on every termite. The ending waves are more like dropping napalm on the entire city and burning it to the ground. At least in terms of coverage.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2543
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:36:25 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:36:25 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 13:14:10 GMT
Leviathan survived just like some termites do... moving over to a different place. The point is that some survived. The Reapers were not successful in eliminating every single ant in two separate cycles. That's a fact presented in the game. It's also a philosophical fact that it's just not easy to destroy every single ant regardless of the method used. I'm not suggest that the wave would "selectively destroy only a handful of Reapers" but that doesn't preclude the wave just "missing some." Even a raging forest fire misses some trees... it's not selective when it does so; but neither is it so completely thorough that it kills absolutely everything either. In literature, most post-apolyptic stories rely on that idea... that someone survives regardless of the size of the nuke dropped on the planet. Why, all of a sudden, should I believe that a single crucible would be so effective as to eliminate every single Reaper across an entire galaxy with 100% certainly that absolutely none would survive... just because that's what the success of the destroy ending depends on? My response... How convenient! Shepard's doubt expressed in the pre-EC ending is completely ambiguous and therefore open to whatever the player imagines it to be. I honestly don't care what ending you select and how you might rationalize it. This one leaves an opening for me to rationalize selecting that ending in a different way. Nothing says I have to select the same endings everyone else does for the same reasons everyone else does... or else it wouldn't matter if Bioware didn't write any player agency into their stories at all because all the peer pressure that goes on around here would just override it all anyways. And yet the game explicitly shows the wave of all 3 kinds literally covering the entire galaxy. The Reapers are pulling the equivalent of trying to step on every termite. The ending waves are more like dropping napalm on the entire city and burning it to the ground. At least in terms of coverage. ... and yet, even in the Low EMS Destroy Ending (EC Cut), Bioware shows us survivors on earth (i.e. the guy collecting his helmet at the end), despite earth basically being decimated in the process and both humans and synthetics literally dissolving in the front of the wave. By having the door move a little at the end, it also implies that there were survivors on Normandy... or perhaps even implies that EDI survived since we're not shown anyone actually exiting... but something does open that door. Certainly, the vegetation the planet Normandy crashes on is alive. Also noted that Hackett says: "The Reapers are defeated."... not destroyed. If some humans on earth survived that wave despite being at the hypocenter of that blast that literally blows apart mass relays and crumbled Big Ben, don't you think it's possible that a Reaper here and there in the entire galaxy could survive as well? It's not so easy to kill every ant... even when one wants to do it.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Feb 24, 2017 16:07:11 GMT
If the game wanted to suggest any Reapers survived, I'm sure it would have shown it to be the case. Instead, it showed Reapers falling over inert. It isn't equivalent to causing extensive damage. It creates a reaction (we see the swirling red energy around the Reapers) that causes them to cease functioning. If it were pure damage, then the world around them would likewise be damaged.
The only way a Reaper could survive is if it were away from a relay. Hardly impossible but I think it's a leap. We're supposed to conclude that the Reapers will no longer be a threat. A surviving Reaper would be a threat.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2543
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:36:25 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 26, 2024 14:36:25 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 16:22:11 GMT
If the game wanted to suggest any Reapers survived, I'm sure it would have shown it to be the case. Instead, it showed Reapers falling over inert. It isn't equivalent to causing extensive damage. It creates a reaction (we see the swirling red energy around the Reapers) that causes them to cease functioning. If it were pure damage, then the world around them would likewise be damaged. The only way a Reaper could survive is if it were away from a relay. Hardly impossible but I think it's a leap. We're supposed to conclude that the Reapers will no longer be a threat. A surviving Reaper would be a threat. In the Low EMS ending, the world is very badly damaged. As for intent... my belief on that is that Bioware intentionally doesn't go in singular directions with what they show... but leave openings to interpret things in different ways. IF they wanted to show an absolute the destruction of all reapers, the language of Hackett could have been strengthened to tell us absolutely that every single reaper was destroyed after the destroy ending. They didn't do that just as much as they didn't suggest that Reapers survived. Being ambiguous is their intent. So, if the player wishes, there is a little opening there to interpret that perhaps some of them survived. It's up to the individual player to decide based on their personal philosophical belief about the ability to exterminate every single ant. Bioware is not actually telling us what philosophy we should or should not believe in. I do agree, regardless, that there is an implication here that the Reapers are no longer a present threat. Is this "sniping in" of ambiguous and contradictory details a good writing technique for a RPG? That's another debate.
|
|
inherit
3035
0
May 28, 2024 15:29:11 GMT
2,341
sil
1,551
Jan 28, 2017 10:19:12 GMT
January 2017
sil
|
Post by sil on Feb 26, 2017 22:29:06 GMT
I doubt Hackett would refer to them as being destroyed, for a start, he's a military man who has been fighting a threat that emerged from dark space. I really would not be surprised if he had some expectation of there being more Reapers out there waiting. By saying they were defeated it simply refers to those that they were fighting. Not that I believe any are hiding, but I believe that Hackett would suspect it.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,670
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,055
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Feb 26, 2017 22:35:40 GMT
It's also a philosophical fact that it's just not easy to destroy every single ant regardless of the method used. I'm not suggest that the wave would "selectively destroy only a handful of Reapers" but that doesn't preclude the wave just "missing some." Even a raging forest fire misses some trees... it's not selective when it does so; but neither is it so completely thorough that it kills absolutely everything either. In literature, most post-apolyptic stories rely on that idea... that someone survives regardless of the size of the nuke dropped on the planet. Why, all of a sudden, should I believe that a single crucible would be so effective as to eliminate every single Reaper across an entire galaxy with 100% certainly that absolutely none would survive... just because that's what the success of the destroy ending depends on? My response... How convenient! I'm having trouble visualizing a way for the wave to miss a few Reapers in a way that doesn't come off as contrived, terrible writing. "That's just the way the space magic works" or some such. Do you have a concrete proposal?
|
|