Ivory Samoan
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 2, 2017 3:51:54 GMT
Minius GC just put out a really intriguing video about the AI and it's possible motivations: I really like the implications, and the way it sets up story arcs within the AI. I especially like the way it delves into the Helios cluster itself, and what's going on with it as a possible power tipping edge for those in the MW. Check it out famBSN
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Post by lastpawn on Feb 2, 2017 5:24:03 GMT
Interesting ideas and I hope Bioware has something like this in mind.
I would prefer something underhanded or even sinister about Andromeda Initiative to the lazy writing alternative of "we're in this just to explore resource-rich areas" -- despite most of Milky Way being unexplored.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 2, 2017 6:40:51 GMT
I'd love to see something sneaky but not more Cerberus. They were too prominent in ME3. I'm done with them.
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Post by T'Loak1048 on Feb 2, 2017 7:08:22 GMT
I'd love to see something sneaky but not more Cerberus. They were too prominent in ME3. I'm done with them. I pretty much feel the same way, though I don't think I would mind just a few hints as a call back to the OT. Outside of that, though, I'd prefer to not hear much of anything on Cerberus. I'd even be happy never getting a confirmation one way or another if they're involved and leave it more up to fan theory, but that's just me.
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Post by Cypher on Feb 2, 2017 7:11:47 GMT
Cerberus would be fine just as long as they didn't overshadow everything else. A simple "We worked for Cerberus but now that we know that things are horrible, we're gonna work to make sure everyone survives instead of putting humans on top!" reference or a sidequest or two dealing with putting down a Cerberus upstart cell would be more than enough.
I could see a problem if there were several core story missions dedicated to them, but a few sidequests tops that could be knocked out in an hour and a half would be no big deal, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 7:39:50 GMT
Cerberus would be fine just as long as they didn't overshadow everything else. A simple "We worked for Cerberus but now that we know that things are horrible, we're gonna work to make sure everyone survives instead of putting humans on top!" reference or a sidequest or two dealing with putting down a Cerberus upstart cell would be more than enough. I could see a problem if there were several core story missions dedicated to them, but a few sidequests tops that could be knocked out in an hour and a half would be no big deal, IMO. We have to remember, that at the time AI left, Cerberus wasn't yet recognized as evil as we know it from ME3. At the time of AI departure, Cerberus was perceived more as a shadowy/secret group with plain intent to act in favor of humanity and humanity alone. So, if we do get people who stem from Cerberus in Andromeda, we need to be prepared to hear lots of "explaining" from them on how Cerberus wasn't that bad yadda yadda... I know... it will be tiresome for hardcore ME fans, but for Ryder twins this will be something new. Unless of course, their father/mother turns out to be from Cerberus all along or it turns out that even Ryder twins also knew a lot about Cerberus themselfs (althrough, not the real deal, but just info from propaganda BS).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 8:08:24 GMT
I need there to be something shady going on, at this point. The fact that they left the Milky Way too early for them to have been escaping the Reapers really grinds my gears. Seriously, that was a perfect setup, and it added so much weight to the trip.
Now they're just going because... reasons?
Although some of the connections Minius pointed out seemed really weak. The guns are white? Lol, the Avenger assault rifle and the Mattock have always been white, so?
CERBERUS!
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Post by Dento on Feb 2, 2017 8:20:31 GMT
I'd love to see something sneaky but not more Cerberus. They were too prominent in ME3. I'm done with them. But this is a two-sided coin. They were so prominent in ME3, that it would be kinda wierd if they had NO pressense at all in Andromeda. I feel like it's about moderation. I think Cerberus could be a nessecery addition to Andromeda, if done correctly.
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Post by kumazan on Feb 2, 2017 8:40:41 GMT
I need there to be something shady going on, at this point. The fact that they left the Milky Way too early for them to have been escaping the Reapers really grinds my gears. Seriously, that was a perfect setup, and it added so much weight to the trip. Now they're just going because... reasons? That's what I thought at first as well. But Walters said in an interview, and it made a lot of sense IMO, that if they were fleeing the MW to escape the Reapers, that would mean every character's backstory would be pretty much the same, no matter what nuances you add on top of it, while having them take the trip because of reasons (to escape the plot as far as I'm concerned) gives the chance to tell more interesting stories. What remains to be seen is whether they made the most of that chance or not. Although some of the connections Minius pointed out seemed really weak. The guns are white? Lol, the Avenger assault rifle and the Mattock have always been white, so? CERBERUS! Yeah, the whole Cerberus part was weak, to say the least. Cora is still the only more or less substanced link to them, and I'm still secretly hoping is just an easter egg and not a real connection to TIM. The other part of the theory was interesting though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 8:49:02 GMT
I need there to be something shady going on, at this point. The fact that they left the Milky Way too early for them to have been escaping the Reapers really grinds my gears. Seriously, that was a perfect setup, and it added so much weight to the trip. Now they're just going because... reasons? That's what I thought at first as well. But Walters said in an interview, and it made a lot of sense IMO, that if they were fleeing the MW to escape the Reapers, that would mean every character's backstory would be pretty much the same, no matter what nuances you add on top of it, while having them take the trip because of reasons (to escape the plot as far as I'm concerned) gives the chance to tell more interesting stories. What remains to be seen is whether they made the most of that chance or not. Although some of the connections Minius pointed out seemed really weak. The guns are white? Lol, the Avenger assault rifle and the Mattock have always been white, so? CERBERUS! Yeah, the whole Cerberus part was weak, to say the least. Cora is still the only more or less substanced link to them, and I'm still secretly hoping is just an easter egg and not a real connection to TIM. The other part of the theory was interesting though. I don't fully trust responses like that, as to me, they sound like press responses. Like, of course he's not going to sit there in an interview and be all, "Huh, yeah, you're right. We kinda fucked that up", lol. Everyone's backstory wouldn't be the same, and that's why I don't buy it. Everyone would have one thing in common, yes, but surely most everyone in the Andromeda Initiative had a life before they left for Andromeda. Things happened to them. By that logic, everyone in the AI is impossible of having an interesting backstory because all of them are a part of the AI, regardless of whether or not the Reapers had anything to do with it. It just doesn't make sense. And I wouldn't mind Cerberus being involved, even in a major way, so long as it's for a reason, and not just shoehorned in. People keep saying, "Cerberus shouldn't be there. It's a new galaxy", but they all showed up from the preexisting galaxy from the old trilogy.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 2, 2017 8:54:57 GMT
The devs actually hinted at a secret reason being possible behind the Initative. And it can still be about the Reapers. The 'official' one can't be because of the same background stuff, so people joined the initiative for different reasons based on the propaganda made by the AI, while in truth the latter were trying to escape them. Of course, there might be some other secret reasons behind it, but it doesn't change the fact that there's something strange on the AI, expecially in light of what happens in Andromeda.
Also, I don't think the offical reason being the Reapers would've been the perfect setup, because it was impossible based of what the vast majority thought about them at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 8:57:44 GMT
The devs actually hinted at a secret reason being possible behind the Initative. And it can still be about the Reapers. The 'official' one can't be because of the same background stuff, so people joined the initiative for different reasons based on the propaganda made by the AI, while in truth the latter were trying to escape them. Of course, there might be some other secret reasons behind it, but it doesn't change the fact that there's something strange on the AI, expecially in light of what happens in Andromeda. Also, I don't think the offical reason being the Reapers would've been the perfect setup, because it was impossible based of what the vast majority thought about them at the time. I would've been okay with them leaving during ME3, honestly. It would've added a lot of weight to everything going on in Andromeda. As far as they would've known, they would be the only humans left. Now, if they fail, sure it sucks, but the Milky Way is doing just fine.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 8:58:38 GMT
It just seems to throw out a lot of the themes regarding "Survival" and all that. They could've really used that to emphasize the stakes.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 2, 2017 9:01:29 GMT
The devs actually hinted at a secret reason being possible behind the Initative. And it can still be about the Reapers. The 'official' one can't be because of the same background stuff, so people joined the initiative for different reasons based on the propaganda made by the AI, while in truth the latter were trying to escape them. Of course, there might be some other secret reasons behind it, but it doesn't change the fact that there's something strange on the AI, expecially in light of what happens in Andromeda. Also, I don't think the offical reason being the Reapers would've been the perfect setup, because it was impossible based of what the vast majority thought about them at the time. I would've been okay with them leaving during ME3, honestly. It would've added a lot of weight to everything going on in Andromeda. As far as they would've known, they would be the only humans left. Now, if they fail, sure it sucks, but the Milky Way is doing just fine. It wouldn't have matched what happens in the game. The Initiative already at it's established now requires people to ignore the fact that there was no talk about it, and a huge expediction like that would've been the center of many discussions. But it'd have lead people to have the same reason for going, at least a lot of them. And if the Reapers are truly behind it as a secret reason, there is actually a lot of weight going on, since they have no clue if the MW was reaped again. And it'll lead to a lot of anger towards the higher ups of the Initative for lying.
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Post by kumazan on Feb 2, 2017 9:01:54 GMT
That's what I thought at first as well. But Walters said in an interview, and it made a lot of sense IMO, that if they were fleeing the MW to escape the Reapers, that would mean every character's backstory would be pretty much the same, no matter what nuances you add on top of it, while having them take the trip because of reasons (to escape the plot as far as I'm concerned) gives the chance to tell more interesting stories. What remains to be seen is whether they made the most of that chance or not. Yeah, the whole Cerberus part was weak, to say the least. Cora is still the only more or less substanced link to them, and I'm still secretly hoping is just an easter egg and not a real connection to TIM. The other part of the theory was interesting though. I don't fully trust responses like that, as to me, they sound like press responses. Like, of course he's not going to sit there in an interview and be all, "Huh, yeah, you're right. We kinda fucked that up", lol. Everyone's backstory wouldn't be the same, and that's why I don't buy it. Everyone would have one thing in common, yes, but surely most everyone in the Andromeda Initiative had a life before they left for Andromeda. Things happened to them. By that logic, everyone in the AI is impossible of having an interesting backstory because all of them are a part of the AI, regardless of whether or not the Reapers had anything to do with it. It just doesn't make sense. And I wouldn't mind Cerberus being involved, even in a major way, so long as it's for a reason, and not just shoehorned in. People keep saying, "Cerberus shouldn't be there. It's a new galaxy", but they all showed up from the preexisting galaxy from the old trilogy. I don't "trust" it, that's why I said that it remains to be seen how this was made in the game. But I disagree with it being the same, if they're fleeing the Reapers, everyone's reason to go to Andromeda is the same. Their previous life stops being important for character development (or stops being as important) because it's overshadowed by the fact that the one decision that changed their lifes the most, and the reason they're with you in the first place is the same for everyone. As for Cerberus, my problem with them isn't that it's illogic for them to be involved, but that they were already overdone in ME3, and their story is one that has already been told. I want new stories, not revisiting the old ones, especially not those which were already oversized in the OT.
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Post by clips7 on Feb 2, 2017 9:02:22 GMT
It would be nice if it was sinister take on this journey, but I have always felt that initially this project kinda struggled with how to proceed after the backlash of ME3 (ending). It's a nice theory, but i think this just gives them an "out" so they don't have to dedicate anything regarding the Reaper storyline and it's outcome.
Again it would be nice if something darker is indeed at hand here, but i don't think the writers was thinking anything along those lines. Interesting bit about Cora....i think cerb and that entire story stays with the trilogy tho...
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 2, 2017 9:04:14 GMT
It just seems to throw out a lot of the themes regarding "Survival" and all that. They could've really used that to emphasize the stakes. It can still be used, although based on what happens in Andromeda there's no really need for another motivation. Beside, the survival theme is something that comes up later in the game. At least in the official propaganda before the voyage, the theme wasn't really about survival. It's something that come up after we reach the new galaxy with all the problems, and it makes an interesting turn around from the start position.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 2, 2017 9:05:21 GMT
It would be nice if it was sinister take on this journey, but I have always felt that initially this project kinda struggled with how to proceed after the backlash of ME3 (ending). It's a nice theory, but i think this just gives them an "out" so they don't have to dedicate anything regarding the Reaper storyline and it's outcome. Again it would be nice if something darker is indeed at hand here, but i don't think the writers was thinking anything along those lines. Interesting bit about Cora....i think cerb and that entire story stays with the trilogy tho... The AI is almost surely hiding something in my opinion. The uprising on the Nexus as it reached Andromeda might be related to that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 9:09:11 GMT
It just seems to throw out a lot of the themes regarding "Survival" and all that. They could've really used that to emphasize the stakes. It can still be used, although based on what happens in Andromeda there's no really need for another motivation. Beside, the survival theme is something that comes up later in the game. At least in the official propaganda before the voyage, the theme wasn't really about survival. It's something that come up after we reach the new galaxy with all the problems, and it makes an interesting turn around from the start position. The theme of the AI wasn't survival, but the theme of the game is. That's how they've marketed it since it was announced. The major themes of Andromeda are exploration and survival.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 9:15:21 GMT
I don't fully trust responses like that, as to me, they sound like press responses. Like, of course he's not going to sit there in an interview and be all, "Huh, yeah, you're right. We kinda fucked that up", lol. Everyone's backstory wouldn't be the same, and that's why I don't buy it. Everyone would have one thing in common, yes, but surely most everyone in the Andromeda Initiative had a life before they left for Andromeda. Things happened to them. By that logic, everyone in the AI is impossible of having an interesting backstory because all of them are a part of the AI, regardless of whether or not the Reapers had anything to do with it. It just doesn't make sense. And I wouldn't mind Cerberus being involved, even in a major way, so long as it's for a reason, and not just shoehorned in. People keep saying, "Cerberus shouldn't be there. It's a new galaxy", but they all showed up from the preexisting galaxy from the old trilogy. I don't "trust" it, that's why I said that it remains to be seen how this was made in the game. But I disagree with it being the same, if they're fleeing the Reapers, everyone's reason to go to Andromeda is the same. Their previous life stops being important for character development (or stops being as important) because it's overshadowed by the fact that the one decision that changed their lifes the most, and the reason they're with you in the first place is the same for everyone. As for Cerberus, my problem with them isn't that it's illogic for them to be involved, but that they were already overdone in ME3, and their story is one that has already been told. I want new stories, not revisiting the old ones, especially not those which were already oversized in the OT. I just don't buy it, honestly. The only reason that would somehow imply less complexity would be if the writer was incapable of making it complex. That's a fault of the writer, not a fault of the setup. Their previous lives don't stop being important either, because they all successfully escaped the Reapers, so they become largely irrelevant anyway. Besides, their personalities and histories are defined by what happened before the Reapers showed up. Their hopes, dreams, and goals are completely independent from the Reapers. There's literally no reason why they wouldn't be able to make interesting stories just because everyone shared a common motive for leaving. That just makes it sound like the writer is incompetent. I don't know about Cerberus, though. We only really knew about them through The Illusive Man, and his lackeys like Miranda and Jacob. People were inspired by Cerberus. People that probably never even knew for sure that TIM existed. There's a lot of depth to explore with Cerberus, especially considering the fact that they were so obviously "the bad guys" in the OT. Even in ME2, where you work for them, Shepard never trusts them and leaves them at the end regardless of how the player feels. It was so black and white that it begged the question as to why anyone followed Cerberus at all.
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Post by helios969 on Feb 2, 2017 9:19:36 GMT
Nice vid. I've been speculating of late that maybe the human side of the AI were once a part of Cerberus, back when it was merely a shadowy black ops division of the Alliance. Maybe PapaRyder and TIM disagreed on the direction Cerberus should go (or he realized TIM was crazy) and it split into two factions. All these similarities and coincidences are a result of that past.
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Post by kumazan on Feb 2, 2017 9:28:38 GMT
I don't "trust" it, that's why I said that it remains to be seen how this was made in the game. But I disagree with it being the same, if they're fleeing the Reapers, everyone's reason to go to Andromeda is the same. Their previous life stops being important for character development (or stops being as important) because it's overshadowed by the fact that the one decision that changed their lifes the most, and the reason they're with you in the first place is the same for everyone. As for Cerberus, my problem with them isn't that it's illogic for them to be involved, but that they were already overdone in ME3, and their story is one that has already been told. I want new stories, not revisiting the old ones, especially not those which were already oversized in the OT. I just don't buy it, honestly. The only reason that would somehow imply less complexity would be if the writer was incapable of making it complex. That's a fault of the writer, not a fault of the setup. Their previous lives don't stop being important either, because they all successfully escaped the Reapers, so they become largely irrelevant anyway. Besides, their personalities and histories are defined by what happened before the Reapers showed up. Their hopes, dreams, and goals are completely independent from the Reapers. There's literally no reason why they wouldn't be able to make interesting stories just because everyone shared a common motive for leaving. That just makes it sound like the writer is incompetent. I don't know about Cerberus, though. We only really knew about them through The Illusive Man, and his lackeys like Miranda and Jacob. People were inspired by Cerberus. People that probably never even knew for sure that TIM existed. There's a lot of depth to explore with Cerberus, especially considering the fact that they were so obviously "the bad guys" in the OT. Even in ME2, where you work for them, Shepard never trusts them and leaves them at the end regardless of how the player feels. It was so black and white that it begged the question as to why anyone followed Cerberus at all. It's not that their lifes were less interesting, or that they'd lack complexity, it's that when your reason to be somewhere is such a life changing event, it's inevitable that it'll overshadow your backstory, if not completely, then at least in part. Same with your motivations, there's no chance in hell that after something like that you remain the same person you were, it'll leave a mark in everyone, it's inevitable. However, when it's the events of their previous lifes which made them take a position in the Ai, that's more intersting since we're not talking about random people running from a menace, but about people whose lifes led them to take a trip to another galaxy. I find the latter more interesting, but to each their own. As for why people joined Cerberus, I don't think it's too different from why they joined the KKK or the NSDAP. I don't think BioWare would want to explore the good (or less bad?) side of a supremacist group, anyway. At least not more than we did in ME2.
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Post by SofNascimento on Feb 2, 2017 9:37:21 GMT
Man, that black hole is beautiful, I hope it's in the game.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 10:01:57 GMT
I just don't buy it, honestly. The only reason that would somehow imply less complexity would be if the writer was incapable of making it complex. That's a fault of the writer, not a fault of the setup. Their previous lives don't stop being important either, because they all successfully escaped the Reapers, so they become largely irrelevant anyway. Besides, their personalities and histories are defined by what happened before the Reapers showed up. Their hopes, dreams, and goals are completely independent from the Reapers. There's literally no reason why they wouldn't be able to make interesting stories just because everyone shared a common motive for leaving. That just makes it sound like the writer is incompetent. I don't know about Cerberus, though. We only really knew about them through The Illusive Man, and his lackeys like Miranda and Jacob. People were inspired by Cerberus. People that probably never even knew for sure that TIM existed. There's a lot of depth to explore with Cerberus, especially considering the fact that they were so obviously "the bad guys" in the OT. Even in ME2, where you work for them, Shepard never trusts them and leaves them at the end regardless of how the player feels. It was so black and white that it begged the question as to why anyone followed Cerberus at all. It's not that their lifes were less interesting, or that they'd lack complexity, it's that when your reason to be somewhere is such a life changing event, it's inevitable that it'll overshadow your backstory, if not completely, then at least in part. Same with your motivations, there's no chance in hell that after something like that you remain the same person you were, it'll leave a mark in everyone, it's inevitable. However, when it's the events of their previous lifes which made them take a position in the Ai, that's more intersting since we're not talking about random people running from a menace, but about people whose lifes led them to take a trip to another galaxy. I find the latter more interesting, but to each their own. As for why people joined Cerberus, I don't think it's too different from why they joined the KKK or the NSDAP. I don't think BioWare would want to explore the good (or less bad?) side of a supremacist group, anyway. At least not more than we did in ME2. But I feel like Cerberus being lumped in with the KKK is a bit disingenuous. They don't hate aliens. They just focus on humanity. As for the Ai, I suppose it's a matter of opinion, in the end, but I think that it would've strengthened the overall narrative. A lot of decisions Bioware is making seems strange to me, but it's their game, I suppose. I also find the Khett to be troubling... the setup here makes me think of Halo 4, when I think focusing on the aspect of being the last of humanity would've been far more interesting than just having some kind of evil alien antagonist. I want the game, but I keep seeing missed potential. Maybe that's just me.
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ApocAlypsE
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Feb 2, 2017 10:03:52 GMT
Minius, I know that you are here. Show yourself.
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