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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2017 1:18:33 GMT
Truthfully, "fighting" the Reapers shouldn't have been what the devs were focusing on. You don't "fight" cosmic horror. You don't explain them either, but I'm getting tired of saying my piece on that... Regardless, Bioware should've thought outside the box when it came to resolving the Reaper issue. Or had it be unresolved. Clearly they wanted to go for a bittersweet ending, and what would've been more bittersweet than fighting for what you believe in with all of your comrades at your side, a completely united galaxy for the first and only time? As long as it ended with some sort of message of hope, I believe a "failure" ending would've been a great way to end the OT. Granted, we kinda got that ending as an option, but it was more of a slap to the face to anyone that hated the terrible Catalyst than an actually moving and legitimate ending. It was clearly added out of spite, rather than being drawn out from a place of creativity and passion. Anyway, not directly related to what you guys are talking about, but I thought it was at least vaguely worth talking about. The Reapers were ruined in ME3, which is an absolute shame, because they are arguably the coolest fucking part of the whole series. Cosmic horror is my jam. Cosmic horror is great. That's why I like Dead Space so much. The Reapers were indeed the best part of the trilogy. Fighting other things, like spectres, shadow brokers, thresher maws, all pale in comparison. When they said they had no beginning or end, and considering they were machines, it was awesome. How can a machine have no beginning? Why they exist? What do they want? Could they have been created by huge cosmic forces to provide balance to life evolution? If you combined Sovereign's tone with Harbinger's voice, you would have the best thing ever. But a Reaper already being destroyed in the first game lost a little of their appeal as Cthulhu. However, seeing the end of ME2 and viewing them as completely different from each other, just made things a lot more interesting... until they got retconned to all look like Sovereign, and everything turned to shit with star brat. Sad, sad. You want to make a sympathetic villain: let him be sympathetic (a.k.a., Saren trying to preserve life in the galaxy, even as misguided as he was) You want to make a Cthulhu life force, unknowable, unstoppable, all powerful: don't present him as a eight years old kid.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 3, 2017 1:23:22 GMT
Followed by the fact Shepard never woke up in the Cerberus base in ME2 and in ME2 and 3 we play as a clone, the real Shepard was sent with the initiative, frozen and Bioware is REALLY sorry for screwing up... Ok a man can dream no? ...No. BioWare does not need to appologize for anything. They wrote a bad ending. Bad endings get written all the time. Lets not take it as a personal insult.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Feb 3, 2017 1:25:33 GMT
Followed by the fact Shepard never woke up in the Cerberus base in ME2 and in ME2 and 3 we play as a clone, the real Shepard was sent with the initiative, frozen and Bioware is REALLY sorry for screwing up... Ok a man can dream no? ...No. BioWare does not need to appologize for anything. They wrote a bad ending. Bad endings get written all the time. Lets not take it as a personal insult. if you knew what I knew...you would too
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Post by Nightlife on Feb 3, 2017 1:32:09 GMT
Had a big thread I posted about this possibility, but didn't focus on the AI. I suggested TIM would have known about this Initiative and at least some of the thousands of humans on the Ark could be Cerberus moles or sympathizers. bsn.boards.net/thread/3608/tim-involved-andromeda-initiativeMost people said they didn't want to see Cerberus in ME:A, but, I think their complete absence doesn't make sense. A few side missions could connect the Universes, and I find that a good thing. And realistic. Also I can tell a lot of you want something COMPLETELY different with Andromeda because you were so pissed about the ending. You want the "reset" button pressed. I get it. The rest of the trilogy, however, is quite good - and Cerberus did figure into that significantly. But, they aren't the new big bad nemesis, but it's an echo/homage to the original games.
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Post by goishen on Feb 3, 2017 1:52:50 GMT
Remember waaaaaay back when they confirmed that Cerberus was in the game? Like in the drought that was info? We're talking last year, this time? Possibly even before that.
I do.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2017 2:30:17 GMT
Truthfully, "fighting" the Reapers shouldn't have been what the devs were focusing on. You don't "fight" cosmic horror. You don't explain them either, but I'm getting tired of saying my piece on that... Regardless, Bioware should've thought outside the box when it came to resolving the Reaper issue. Or had it be unresolved. Clearly they wanted to go for a bittersweet ending, and what would've been more bittersweet than fighting for what you believe in with all of your comrades at your side, a completely united galaxy for the first and only time? As long as it ended with some sort of message of hope, I believe a "failure" ending would've been a great way to end the OT. Granted, we kinda got that ending as an option, but it was more of a slap to the face to anyone that hated the terrible Catalyst than an actually moving and legitimate ending. It was clearly added out of spite, rather than being drawn out from a place of creativity and passion. Anyway, not directly related to what you guys are talking about, but I thought it was at least vaguely worth talking about. The Reapers were ruined in ME3, which is an absolute shame, because they are arguably the coolest fucking part of the whole series. Cosmic horror is my jam. Cosmic horror is great. That's why I like Dead Space so much. The Reapers were indeed the best part of the trilogy. Fighting other things, like spectres, shadow brokers, thresher maws all pale in comparison. When they said they had no beginning or end, and considering they were machines, it was awesome. How can a machine have no beginning? Why they exist? What do they want? Could they have been created by huge cosmic forces to provide balance to life evolution? If you combined Sovereign's tone with Harbinger's voice, you would have the best thing ever. But a Reaper already being destroyed in the first game lost a little of their appeal as Cthulhu. However, seeing the end of ME2 and viewing them as completely different from each other, just made things a lot more interesting... until they got retconned to all look like Sovereign, and everything turned to shit with star brat. Sad, sad. You want to make a sympathetic villain: let him be sympathetic (a.k.a., Saren trying to preserve life in the galaxy, even misguided as he was) You want to make a Cthulhu life force, unknowable, unstoppable, all powerful: don't present him as a ten years old kid. You get me.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 3, 2017 3:19:49 GMT
Followed by the fact Shepard never woke up in the Cerberus base in ME2 and in ME2 and 3 we play as a clone, the real Shepard was sent with the initiative, frozen and Bioware is REALLY sorry for screwing up... Ok a man can dream no? ...No. BioWare does not need to appologize for anything. They wrote a bad ending. Bad endings get written all the time. Lets not take it as a personal insult. I agree, no apologies are required. I actually like the ending as long as Leviathan+EC+Citadel is included, I guess I'm lucky like that lol.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 3, 2017 3:22:13 GMT
...No. BioWare does not need to appologize for anything. They wrote a bad ending. Bad endings get written all the time. Lets not take it as a personal insult. I agree, no apologies are required. I actually like the ending as long as Leviathan+EC+Citadel is included, I guess I'm lucky like that lol. It wasn't perfect by any sense of the word, but the EC did fix a lot of the endings for me. As long as I pretend Synthesis dosen't exist I am at peace with the ending.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2017 3:25:00 GMT
I'm at peace with the endings when I remember they won't have anything to do with the new game. Because the best medicine is denial.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Feb 3, 2017 16:36:14 GMT
Cerberus was an unabashed writer's pet that got way more narrative spotlight in the games and secondary media than was necessary; I mean a human supremacist organization operating in a setting wherein humanity is already dominating is asinine enough, but to continue to throw them to the forefront of everything, even moreso than the Reapers in ME 3 was really grating. It's time for some new stories BioWare, if you're going to bring over some more baggage from the Milky Way then at least do it with some facet of the setting that hasn't already been done to death. Species like the Rachni and Elcor have some rather compelling narratives to tell I'll wager; it would certainly be more original and compelling then having another: "Cerberus did it!" plot at any rate. Rachni would be cool but then their existence depends on a decision Shepard made in ME1. That makes it hard to include them. The main reason I think they would work is because a queen egg can lay unhatched for 1000 years and still be viable. It would just take one to be on board and ark or the Nexus. Elcor, sure, they could use some spotlight. But they seem like they'd belong better after things were established. They're not fighters. I don't know if any are biotics. Volus could be biotics and their penchant for finances could be extremely useful in developing new markets. To me, they make sense being a part of the AI and I'd be damned surprised if they weren't involved in getting it funded. Elcor, Armored up, ridden like horses. Charge them into the enemy! They're needed.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Feb 3, 2017 16:40:18 GMT
I didn't mind Cerberus in ME2. Not a huge fan of working with/for them, but whatever.
Didn't like them being such a big deal in ME3 though.
Shadiness would be great. But have it be but the founders/backers/jien (or whatever her name is). Or the dumbasses that decided guns on ships = bad mmkay.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 3, 2017 16:57:07 GMT
I didn't mind Cerberus in ME2. Not a huge fan of working with/for them, but whatever. Didn't like them being such a big deal in ME3 though. Shadiness would be great. But have it be but the founders/backers/jien (or whatever her name is). Or the dumbasses that decided guns on ships = bad mmkay. I've managed to headcanon working with them as very much a part of his Spectre duties. It could be a sort of infiltration but I saw it more as "do whatever is necessary to get the job done". Spectres have that kind of latitude and, especially if you were reinstated, it works well. Even if you weren't, it's easy to say that you were never officially removed from the position and once Bailey legally restores you to life (if you chose for that to happen), your legal life should resume as normal. The main thing I didn't like is that I couldn't easily change out of Cerberus clothing unless I wanted to wear that weird Renegade outfit. It's why I've found Kasumi's loyalty mission to be so essential ASAP - I'd rather walk around the ship in a formal outfit than wear the Cerberus logo. Trying to make it on-topic: I'll reiterate that I'd be fine without Cerberus making an appearance. Something VERY minor would be fine, or even a "I was with them but it makes no sense and I'm sure TIM is long dead", but nothing that takes over the plot. If it has to be a mission, let it be a small side quest that deals with them.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Feb 3, 2017 17:11:16 GMT
Plot Twist: TIM is behind the whole thing and he's actually part of the remnant. That's why his eyes were weird looking and blue. lol
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Post by The Twilight God on Feb 3, 2017 17:25:02 GMT
I'd love to see something sneaky but not more Cerberus. They were too prominent in ME3. I'm done with them.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Feb 3, 2017 17:26:50 GMT
I agree, no apologies are required. I actually like the ending as long as Leviathan+EC+Citadel is included, I guess I'm lucky like that lol. It wasn't perfect by any sense of the word, but the EC did fix a lot of the endings for me. As long as I pretend Synthesis dosen't exist I am at peace with the ending. so....like as long as pretend I am a billionaire I am happy with my life? Come on...headcanon is one step removed from delusion Also, the ending itself is only half the issue, the other half is how it got to its state and the handling of the backlash
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Post by The Twilight God on Feb 3, 2017 17:28:50 GMT
I'm at peace with the endings when I remember they won't have anything to do with the new game. Because the best medicine is denial. The best medicine is MEHEM.
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Post by pianishimo on Feb 3, 2017 17:32:16 GMT
Eveytime there's a post about theories I get like: As I said in another discussion, Minius has good points about the Initiative and since the very beggining of leakes about the plot I've been wondering if there is something else behind the Initiative beyond the "let's explore new resourceful worlds". Well, after you play a lot of the Deus Ex series, you always know there's some kind of conspiracy hidden in everything that is big and has enough power as the Initiative. We have to think that the Ryder family's plot is an important part of the game. Alec is a cientist who created an AI to make human enhancements. That is something to think about. We can't deny that Cerberus probably has its hand above the Initiative, either with money or influence. It's a good link with the previous games. Yes, I hope there won't be a lot of missions related to Cerberus, but we will probably hear about them. In addition, Jien Garson does seem to be a powerfull woman with potential strong reasons to leave the Milk Way. Throughout the trailers and gameplays we've been able to see a time skip, since some planets already have closed factions and groups who "rule" them. What about anarchists? If the Initiative was so good, why are there some people who don't seem to accept its rules? Why did Sloane Kelly leave the AI? Weren't they volunteers to this journey? Why are they rebelling? I really hope to see some plot twists during the game and I think Alec is one of the very best candidates to be one of them. Let's hope for the best theories to become true
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 3, 2017 17:42:08 GMT
Rachni would be cool but then their existence depends on a decision Shepard made in ME1. That makes it hard to include them. The main reason I think they would work is because a queen egg can lay unhatched for 1000 years and still be viable. It would just take one to be on board and ark or the Nexus. Elcor, sure, they could use some spotlight. But they seem like they'd belong better after things were established. They're not fighters. I don't know if any are biotics. Volus could be biotics and their penchant for finances could be extremely useful in developing new markets. To me, they make sense being a part of the AI and I'd be damned surprised if they weren't involved in getting it funded. Elcor, Armored up, ridden like horses. Charge them into the enemy! They're needed. I would insist that an Elcor soldier accompany each Pathfinder team operating in Andromeda. At least that way the away team could strap his gun/cannon to the Nomad for protection even if they didn't feel like bringing him on missions.
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Post by traks on Feb 4, 2017 11:08:23 GMT
The conclusion, that Cerberus has a lot to do with the Andromeda Initiative doesn't make any sense to me, because a) it's not a human only expedition, even if you say a) doesn't matter because Cerberus is not behind it but merely infiltrating the Initiative, then Cerberus likely still wouldn't risk to let the other arks reach Andromeda, c) TIM is dead certain that the Reapers are the biggest power imaginable, so why would he use ressources to search for another power that has no chance to come into play before it's do or die against the Reapers, d) TIM is also dead certain that he will find a way to control the Reapers, so I don't think he has any interest in a back-up plan its outcome he won't see. With the setup we are seeing it is far more likely that it is secretly a council mission. It might have started as a "can we do it" research project and then after the events of ME1 the council planned the launch in case Shepard is right about the Reapers coming in shortly. They recruit people who are out for the biggest adventure they can imagine without telling them the truth about the Reapers because otherwise there would be panic in the Milky Way and people who want to avoid the Reaper invasion would ask "why can't I go with my family" and would probably do anything to hop on one of the arks - and in doing so endangering the whole project.
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Post by snorkamus on Feb 4, 2017 11:33:37 GMT
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Post by commandercryptarch on Feb 4, 2017 14:11:24 GMT
OFF-TOPIC: Perfect answer to the "OMG Cora is ugly , she has a 'lesbian' haircut" camp. Starbuck had short hair for the most part of BSG and most men found her super hot. I was lucky enough to have met (and taken a picture" with Katee Sackhoff and Tricia Helfer and she looked ( i mean both looked) a m a z i n g from up close . Anyway to not derail the topic , I watched this video today and I must say it reflects most of my thoughts on the Ai. There is definitely something going on with it and I cannot wait to find out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 14:17:23 GMT
Thats... creepy. It looks way too similar! I think my mind just exploded!
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Post by snorkamus on Feb 5, 2017 21:26:10 GMT
Thats... creepy. It looks way too similar! I think my mind just exploded! I suspect Cylons are behind the AI!
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Post by geezer117 on Feb 5, 2017 22:30:06 GMT
Regarding Cerberus, their true nature might not have been widely known at the time of departure, but that nature existed nonetheless. It would be remarkable if Cerberus allowed this mission to go forward without their agents on board. As a minor plotline, that would certainly add interesting dimensions to the story.
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Post by unkindled on Feb 5, 2017 22:39:03 GMT
I hope Cerberus plays some role in Andromeda, they are one of my favorite factions in ME. ( Except ME3 Cerberus, but we will just forget about that)
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