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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 18:29:15 GMT
No, your post has no point other than to complain about Bioware not drawing enough fictional aliens to suit your fancy. The number of races in Andromeda could be far fewer... maybe there are just far fewer inhabitable planets. We know now that Andromeda has lots of stars... but we know nothing about the planets that orbit those stars. The reality is that we, here on earth, could actually still be the only sentient life in the universe... unlikely; but still possible. Theres no need to get personal, this is a speculation thread. At no point did I berate other people for their opinion. This is a game about alien races, not reality. Do you think having fewer races in a galaxy at least twice the size of ours is something the writers are likely to write about? Since it's about speculation... what was so nonsensical about my speculating that Andromeda could just have far fewer races in it?... but you said I didn't make any sense (not berating me... yeah right?) If one is to speculate based on reality... we could still be the only sentient species in the entire universe. Life, let alone sentient life, could still be something totally unique to earth itself. Something that's not proven (and the existence of aliens has not been proven) can also be potentially false. If one is to speculate on space travel based on reality... our galaxy is billion of years old and, to the best of our real knowledge, there are no species flitting around our galaxy using FTL or anything even remotely like a Mass Relay... So, why is it so necessary for Bioware to just insert many, many species in Andromeda just because they had lots of species in the Milky Way? It's a different galaxy. ... and since what the writers actually do when writing fiction is limited only by what they want to do with their story... my speculation makes every bit as much sense as yours does. Personally, I find the thought that we may be it for sentient life in the universe a scarier thought than there being myriads of aliens. I also think going to another galaxy to find a new home and finding out that there is very little there that is even remotely able to sustain life could be a very scary premise for a sci-fi game.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 18:31:37 GMT
Oops then... Now we are back with the Argumentum ad hominem. Passive aggressive behavior as well. Opinions about the game not being believable (in this aspect) because there isn't anyone around in the Andromeda galaxy when we don't even have the lore facts yet. And trying to use scientific theories to back arguments when they aren't even absolute proofs, but now we're just discussing a video game. Ok, I'm out! Man, I think you introduce passive aggressive behaviour into more than one thread, perhaps that why you have seen it so much. This is a speculation thread, When you start talking to the person directly and saying 'but you said' referring to their exact statement when talking about minutia such as word play, it doesn't bode well for the topic of a thread. I would suggest you don't adopt these tactics on a forum in the future for other peoples threads. Nothing in the universe is an absolute proof. Our own existance here and now is not an absolute proof that you are here. If you want to argue Descartes, 'I think, therefore I am' you can, but in a different thread please, this is about why we haven;t seen more races in ME:A, thats it. Bulverism as well.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 8, 2017 18:41:02 GMT
Theres no need to get personal, this is a speculation thread. At no point did I berate other people for their opinion. This is a game about alien races, not reality. Do you think having fewer races in a galaxy at least twice the size of ours is something the writers are likely to write about? Since it's about speculation... what was so nonsensical about my speculating that Andromeda could just have far fewer races in it?... but you said I didn't make any sense (not berating me... yeah right?) If one is to speculate based on reality... we could still be the only sentient species in the entire universe. Life, let alone sentient life, could still be something totally unique to earth itself. Something that's not proven (and the existence of aliens has not been proven) can also be potentially false. If one is to speculate on space travel based on reality... our galaxy is billion of years old and, to the best of our real knowledge, there are no species flitting around our galaxy using FTL or anything even remotely like a Mass Relay... So, why is it so necessary for Bioware to just insert many, many species in Andromeda just because they had lots of species in the Milky Way? It's a different galaxy. ... and since what the writers actually do when writing fiction is limited only by what they want to do with their story... my speculation makes every bit as much sense as yours does. Personally, I find the thought that we may be it for sentient life in the universe a scarier thought than there being myriads of aliens. I also think going to another galaxy to find a new home and finding out that there is very little there that is even remotely able to sustain life could be a very scary premise for a sci-fi game. Well, it was because you speculated without giving any reason why? A hypothesis is based on an observation in the universe. In the universe of ME, there are many alien races in the milky way, that is an observation. So you can hypothesise there might be many races in andromeda. I was conversing with you because you just made a statement about there being less races but your reasoning was not based on any observation whatsoever in the universe of the game. Sorry Im a scientist, so my way of thinking has to be based on something, even something unlikely. Its not scientific just to make a random statement and then don't give your opinion on an observation as to why. Granted, it is possible there might be less races in andromeda, but why would the writers write that?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 19:00:58 GMT
Since it's about speculation... what was so nonsensical about my speculating that Andromeda could just have far fewer races in it?... but you said I didn't make any sense (not berating me... yeah right?) If one is to speculate based on reality... we could still be the only sentient species in the entire universe. Life, let alone sentient life, could still be something totally unique to earth itself. Something that's not proven (and the existence of aliens has not been proven) can also be potentially false. If one is to speculate on space travel based on reality... our galaxy is billion of years old and, to the best of our real knowledge, there are no species flitting around our galaxy using FTL or anything even remotely like a Mass Relay... So, why is it so necessary for Bioware to just insert many, many species in Andromeda just because they had lots of species in the Milky Way? It's a different galaxy. ... and since what the writers actually do when writing fiction is limited only by what they want to do with their story... my speculation makes every bit as much sense as yours does. Personally, I find the thought that we may be it for sentient life in the universe a scarier thought than there being myriads of aliens. I also think going to another galaxy to find a new home and finding out that there is very little there that is even remotely able to sustain life could be a very scary premise for a sci-fi game. Well, it was because you speculated without giving any reason why? A hypothesis is based on an observation in the universe. In the universe of ME, there are many alien races in the milky way, that is an observation. So you can hypothesise there might be many races in andromeda. I was conversing with you because you just made a statement about there being less races but your reasoning was not based on any observation whatsoever in the universe of the game. Sorry Im a scientist, so my way of thinking has to be based on something, even something unlikely. Its not scientific just to make a random statement and then don't give your opinion on an observation as to why. Granted, it is possible there might be less races in andromeda, but why would the writers write that? Bull crap. I gave reasons... based on my observation of the real world. That LIFE (not humans) has existed in this galaxy for millions, if not billions of years... and we don't yet find ANY real evidence of even a single species flitting about our entire galaxy at the drop of a hat. My observation is that your hypothesis is based on arbitrarily extending the fictional Milky Way into an entirely different fictional galaxy. It's not based on any science. Just because there were lots of Milky Way races doesn't mean that the writers will cause the same conditions to exist in a fictional Andromeda galaxy. They are free to decide that their version of the Andromeda galaxy developed more in line with the timeline of the true Milky Way. Where are the aliens?... The REAL REALITY is that they don't exist because the writers haven't "willed" them into existence... yet... or, at least, they haven't revealed them to us... yet.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 8, 2017 19:14:08 GMT
Well, it was because you speculated without giving any reason why? A hypothesis is based on an observation in the universe. In the universe of ME, there are many alien races in the milky way, that is an observation. So you can hypothesise there might be many races in andromeda. I was conversing with you because you just made a statement about there being less races but your reasoning was not based on any observation whatsoever in the universe of the game. Sorry Im a scientist, so my way of thinking has to be based on something, even something unlikely. Its not scientific just to make a random statement and then don't give your opinion on an observation as to why. Granted, it is possible there might be less races in andromeda, but why would the writers write that? Bull crap. I gave reasons... based on my observation of the real world. That LIFE (not humans) has existed in this galaxy for millions, if not billions of years... and we don't yet find ANY real evidence of even a single species flitting about our entire galaxy at the drop of a hat. My observation is that your hypothesis is based on arbitrarily extending the fictional Milky Way into an entirely different fictional galaxy. It's not based on any science. Just because there were lots of Milky Way races doesn't mean that the writers will cause the same conditions to exist in a fictional Andromeda galaxy. They are free to decide that their version of the Andromeda galaxy developed more in line with the timeline of the true Milky Way. Where are the aliens?... The REAL REALITY is that they don't exist because the writers haven't "willed" them into existence... yet... or, at least, they haven't revealed them to us... yet. My argument was that you are basing your observation on the real universe when talking about a component of a fictional universe. That observation doesn't correlate because the ME universe is another universe. Based on the observation of the fictional ME universe, there are a lot of races in existence, why then would the writers write a galaxy with less species in it when its twice the size of the milky way? This is not an arbitrary observation. Where is the observation in the ME universe to support your hypothesis? Also your point about life in our universe is a separate argument. In this second argument, you discuss that life has existed for billions of years which is true. But that we don't have evidence is alien life yet which is also true. I would counter in this second argument that you do not recognize the extreme limitations when coming to that conclusion. Humans have only been around for a few thousand years and we have only looked for alien life about 100 light years around earth only for the past 50 years using a limited technique of radio signals. That doesn't definetively mean there are no aliens, only that we have not met them yet if there are aliens. Which for something as big as the universe, would be almost impossible. Again I use my analogy of looking at the corner of a room and concluding because there is no one standing in that corner, that there is no sentient life on earth. Based on the size of the galaxy alone and also that the building blocks of life such as amino acids are created on asteroids. Also that we, humans are made up of the most common elements in the universe and other variables, it approaches impossibility that we are special and alone in the universe if we use methematics. Countering someones argument is not berating them. Its how discussions are made. Would the writers really make a game with only 3 races in it that are new?
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 8, 2017 19:27:50 GMT
While reading over the thread and the advancement of our galaxy and possibly Andromeda, it occurred to me that of the species currently alive and living in Andromeda(in MEA storyline), the Andromeda Initiative could be the most advance group in the Helius Star Cluster. And they may be the only group with the technology to travel between star clusters. It would be interesting if the species native to the Helius Cluster know about the Remnant's ruins but lack the technology to interact with what the Remnant left behind.
I find 3 species native to the same star cluster surprising. I would have to go dig through codex entries but I am pretty sure all of the species in Mass Effect 1-3 are from different solar systems/star clusters.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 19:33:21 GMT
Bull crap. I gave reasons... based on my observation of the real world. That LIFE (not humans) has existed in this galaxy for millions, if not billions of years... and we don't yet find ANY real evidence of even a single species flitting about our entire galaxy at the drop of a hat. My observation is that your hypothesis is based on arbitrarily extending the fictional Milky Way into an entirely different fictional galaxy. It's not based on any science. Just because there were lots of Milky Way races doesn't mean that the writers will cause the same conditions to exist in a fictional Andromeda galaxy. They are free to decide that their version of the Andromeda galaxy developed more in line with the timeline of the true Milky Way. Where are the aliens?... The REAL REALITY is that they don't exist because the writers haven't "willed" them into existence... yet... or, at least, they haven't revealed them to us... yet. My argument was that you are basing your observation on the real universe when talking about a component of a fictional universe. That observation doesn't correlate because the ME universe is another universe. Based on the observation of the fictional ME universe, there are a lot of races in existence, why then would the writers write a galaxy with less species in it when its twice the size of the milky way? This is not an arbitrary observation. Where is the observation in the ME universe to support your hypothesis? Also your point about life in our universe is a separate argument. In this second argument, you discuss that life has existed for billions of years which is true. But that we don't have evidence is alien life yet which is also true. I would counter in this second argument that you do not recognize the extreme limitations when coming to that conclusion. Humans have only been around for a few thousand years and we have only looked for alien life about 100 light years around earth only for the past 50 years using a limited technique of radio signals. That doesn't definetively mean there are no aliens, only that we have not met them yet if there are aliens. Which for something as big as the universe, would be almost impossible. Again I use my analogy of looking at the corner of a room and concluding because there is no one standing in that corner, that there is no sentient life on earth. Based on the size of the galaxy alone and also that the building blocks of life such as amino acids are created on asteroids. Also that we, humans are made up of the most common elements in the universe and other variables, it approaches impossibility that we are special and alone in the universe if we use methematics. Countering someones argument is not berating them. Its how discussions are made. Would the writers really make a game with only 3 races in it that are new? ... and your observation doesn't correlate any better than mine... since Reapers don't exist in Andromeda and Andromeda is millions of LY away from the ME Milky Way with life developing in accordance with whatever unknown conditions exist in Andromeda. The development and conditions of Andromeda will be whatever Bioware writers decide it to be. You can like or lump it.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 8, 2017 19:44:15 GMT
My argument was that you are basing your observation on the real universe when talking about a component of a fictional universe. That observation doesn't correlate because the ME universe is another universe. Based on the observation of the fictional ME universe, there are a lot of races in existence, why then would the writers write a galaxy with less species in it when its twice the size of the milky way? This is not an arbitrary observation. Where is the observation in the ME universe to support your hypothesis? Also your point about life in our universe is a separate argument. In this second argument, you discuss that life has existed for billions of years which is true. But that we don't have evidence is alien life yet which is also true. I would counter in this second argument that you do not recognize the extreme limitations when coming to that conclusion. Humans have only been around for a few thousand years and we have only looked for alien life about 100 light years around earth only for the past 50 years using a limited technique of radio signals. That doesn't definetively mean there are no aliens, only that we have not met them yet if there are aliens. Which for something as big as the universe, would be almost impossible. Again I use my analogy of looking at the corner of a room and concluding because there is no one standing in that corner, that there is no sentient life on earth. Based on the size of the galaxy alone and also that the building blocks of life such as amino acids are created on asteroids. Also that we, humans are made up of the most common elements in the universe and other variables, it approaches impossibility that we are special and alone in the universe if we use methematics. Countering someones argument is not berating them. Its how discussions are made. Would the writers really make a game with only 3 races in it that are new? ... and your observation doesn't correlate any better than mine... since Reapers don't exist in Andromeda and Andromeda is millions of LY away from the ME Milky Way with life developing in accordance with whatever unknown conditions exist in Andromeda. The development and conditions of Andromeda will be whatever Bioware writers decide it to be. You can like or lump it. Except that this is a speculation thread. So why are you commenting here unless to speculate about possibilities writers are thinking about?
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Post by armass81 on Feb 8, 2017 19:48:31 GMT
Well, it was because you speculated without giving any reason why? A hypothesis is based on an observation in the universe. In the universe of ME, there are many alien races in the milky way, that is an observation. So you can hypothesise there might be many races in andromeda. I was conversing with you because you just made a statement about there being less races but your reasoning was not based on any observation whatsoever in the universe of the game. Sorry Im a scientist, so my way of thinking has to be based on something, even something unlikely. Its not scientific just to make a random statement and then don't give your opinion on an observation as to why. Granted, it is possible there might be less races in andromeda, but why would the writers write that? Bull crap. I gave reasons... based on my observation of the real world. That LIFE (not humans) has existed in this galaxy for millions, if not billions of years... and we don't yet find ANY real evidence of even a single species flitting about our entire galaxy at the drop of a hat. My observation is that your hypothesis is based on arbitrarily extending the fictional Milky Way into an entirely different fictional galaxy. It's not based on any science. Just because there were lots of Milky Way races doesn't mean that the writers will cause the same conditions to exist in a fictional Andromeda galaxy. They are free to decide that their version of the Andromeda galaxy developed more in line with the timeline of the true Milky Way. Where are the aliens?... The REAL REALITY is that they don't exist because the writers haven't "willed" them into existence... yet... or, at least, they haven't revealed them to us... yet. We havent looked very far and we dont have the capability to look very far. We can barely detect planets around other stars, a while back even this was impossible. We need better equipment, way better. And SETI, pure crapshoot, they even admitted it themselves that discovering alien signals is not looking too propable, since they could be using so many different kinds of communications on so many different frequencies. Only hope for discovering any alien so far is if they purposely seek us out and reveal themselves. Its hard to discover things when in essence youre both blind and deaf, at least for a time being.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 19:56:12 GMT
Bull crap. I gave reasons... based on my observation of the real world. That LIFE (not humans) has existed in this galaxy for millions, if not billions of years... and we don't yet find ANY real evidence of even a single species flitting about our entire galaxy at the drop of a hat. My observation is that your hypothesis is based on arbitrarily extending the fictional Milky Way into an entirely different fictional galaxy. It's not based on any science. Just because there were lots of Milky Way races doesn't mean that the writers will cause the same conditions to exist in a fictional Andromeda galaxy. They are free to decide that their version of the Andromeda galaxy developed more in line with the timeline of the true Milky Way. Where are the aliens?... The REAL REALITY is that they don't exist because the writers haven't "willed" them into existence... yet... or, at least, they haven't revealed them to us... yet. We havent looked very far and we dont ahve the capability to look very far. We can barely detect planets on the solar systems, a while back even this was impossible. Its hard to discover things when in essence youre both blind and deaf. So, whose to say then that life in Andromeda isn't in the same boat we are in reality?... unable to explore very far into their galaxy and meet all their neighbors. If the Andromeda civilizations that we do meet are so limited, then nothing like the Citadel or the multi-species council or anything like that would exist on whatever the first planets we visit in Andromeda are. Instead, we would potentially just be the first alien space-faring species the Angarans meet and Bioware would be remiss in introducing us right off the bat to a place filled with innumerable species already living cooperatively with each other.
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Post by ProbeAway on Feb 8, 2017 19:57:44 GMT
Actually all four of those points could potentially be valid explanations. You're simply dismissing some of them without enough information to do so with any confidence. Re point 2, you say that like it's a certain thing. It's a theory only, given that humans have no actual experience to draw on in terms of technological development beyond a certain point. It also assumes that there have not been any significant intervening events, even tho the Remnant seem to be set up as the remains of a formerly powerful, now-dead species. You're asking questions that we don't have enough info to answer in much detail, and then dismissing reasonable suggestions because we can't answer in more detail. I'm not sure what else we can tell you until we play the game! Its not dismissing, its called theorizing. In reverse of what you've said, people are suggesting things without enough information. So we have to speculate only on the possibilities. The four suggestions were not completely dismissed, I'd be willing to hear a counter rather than 'we don't have enough information'. Anything could potentially be a valid explanation but without going through the possibilities of what the writers were thinking when they came up with the story, nothing will be achieved. Even the counters are important. Think, think of the possibilities rather than just accepting whats given to you. That's the thing tho. I haven't accepted what's been given to me because barely anything HAS been given to me. And you dismissed point 2 as 'impossible' and point 3 as 'too vague'. I get the fun in speculating (I've done it about other aspects of the game) but the less starting info you have, the harder any meaningful speculation becomes. We don't even know how many other species we will come across yet, so of course people are 'suggesting things without enough information' - that's what you've asked them to do! Sorry if I sound like I'm trying to shut down the conversation, because that's not my intent. I just think you need to accept that most responses you get will be pretty general or vague is all. Maybe after the gameplay footage we'll apparently get next week there will be more to go on.
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Post by armass81 on Feb 8, 2017 19:59:02 GMT
We havent looked very far and we dont ahve the capability to look very far. We can barely detect planets on the solar systems, a while back even this was impossible. Its hard to discover things when in essence youre both blind and deaf. So, whose to say then that life in Andromeda isn't in the same boat we are in reality?... unable to explore very far into their galaxy and meet all their neighbors. If the Andromeda civilizations that we do meet are so limited, then nothing like the Citadel or the multi-species council or anything like that would exist on whatever the first planets we visit in Andromeda are. Instead, we would potentially just be the first alien space-faring species the Angarans meet and Bioware would be remiss in introducing us right off the bat to a place filled with innumerable species already living cooperatively with each other. Nothing, they can desing how many species they want at all tech levels, but considering how ME is, it doesnt create that intresting of a story, if 99,99% of the species we meet are cavemen. Or beasts.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 8, 2017 20:01:28 GMT
We havent looked very far and we dont ahve the capability to look very far. We can barely detect planets on the solar systems, a while back even this was impossible. Its hard to discover things when in essence youre both blind and deaf. So, whose to say then that life in Andromeda isn't in the same boat we are in reality?... unable to explore very far into their galaxy and meet all their neighbors. If the Andromeda civilizations that we do meet are so limited, then nothing like the Citadel or the multi-species council or anything like that would exist on whatever the first planets we visit in Andromeda are. Instead, we would potentially just be the first alien space-faring species the Angarans meet and Bioware would be remiss in introducing us right off the bat to a place filled with innumerable species already living cooperatively with each other. This is my opinion only, but I think it introduces a ' we are a special case' which seems very ego-centric to assume we are the ones capable of space flight and meeting the angara, when the milky way has been held back technologically for billions of years by the reapers. But the poor andromeda natives are even worse off than us somehow.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 8, 2017 20:05:10 GMT
Its not dismissing, its called theorizing. In reverse of what you've said, people are suggesting things without enough information. So we have to speculate only on the possibilities. The four suggestions were not completely dismissed, I'd be willing to hear a counter rather than 'we don't have enough information'. Anything could potentially be a valid explanation but without going through the possibilities of what the writers were thinking when they came up with the story, nothing will be achieved. Even the counters are important. Think, think of the possibilities rather than just accepting whats given to you. That's the thing tho. I haven't accepted what's been given to me because barely anything HAS been given to me. And you dismissed point 2 as 'impossible' and point 3 as 'too vague'. I get the fun in speculating (I've done it about other aspects of the game) but the less starting info you have, the harder any meaningful speculation becomes. We don't even know how many other species we will come across yet, so of course people are 'suggesting things without enough information' - that's what you've asked them to do! Sorry if I sound like I'm trying to shut down the conversation, because that's not my intent. I just think you need to accept that most responses you get will be pretty general or vague is all. Maybe after the gameplay footage we'll apparently get next week there will be more to go on. Back in the days of battlestar galactica, the new series, my first post on the sci-fi forum was about how earth was the cylon homeworld, way back well before the beginning of the fourth season and I was right. The writers themselves had to speculate on the new story in andromeda, so I want to see what we can come up with and hoe close it is to the story. Use your imagination, but in a logical way!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 20:12:02 GMT
... and your observation doesn't correlate any better than mine... since Reapers don't exist in Andromeda and Andromeda is millions of LY away from the ME Milky Way with life developing in accordance with whatever unknown conditions exist in Andromeda. The development and conditions of Andromeda will be whatever Bioware writers decide it to be. You can like or lump it. Except that this is a speculation thread. So why are you commenting here unless to speculate about possibilities writers are thinking about? I'm trying to speculate... just in a different direction that you apparently want me to... and you keep attacking me in the process. If you are indeed a scientist, then even you should recognize that you're not actually qualified, based on available data, to speculate any more accurately than anyone else about what someone else is thinking about. BTW, your assertion that the extinct races were mentioned in ME1... they weren't. Liara expressly said that she could find essentially no information on any of the cycles that came before the Protheans. ... and on that note, I'm joining the others who have already said that they are out of here. Bye.
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Post by armass81 on Feb 8, 2017 20:25:11 GMT
While reading over the thread and the advancement of our galaxy and possibly Andromeda, it occurred to me that of the species currently alive and living in Andromeda(in MEA storyline), the Andromeda Initiative could be the most advance group in the Helius Star Cluster. And they may be the only group with the technology to travel between star clusters. It would be interesting if the species native to the Helius Cluster know about the Remnant's ruins but lack the technology to interact with what the Remnant left behind. I find 3 species native to the same star cluster surprising. I would have to go dig through codex entries but I am pretty sure all of the species in Mass Effect 1-3 are from different solar systems/star clusters. Yes thats is because naturally evolving intelligence is quite rare, and it also doesnt always make to the spacefaring level (catastrophies could occur, anything from nuclear wars, to gaian collapses of the environment, to alien/AI invasions), thus we can only find a single civilization inside a single cluster. but arguments for the opposite reason: we also have to consider time, for instance in a couple of million years timeline several species could develop inside a single cluster, remember that there is apparently no reaper like restriction to this as far as we can tell, tough there could be other restrictions. Or then theres the panspermia creator possibility, where an advanced alien race actually creates or uplifts another race to sapience, for any reason(child species, creating new life experiments or creating slaves), creating life where no life exists, or cant exist(creating an artificial world maybe). Or the space could be filled with alien explorers and passengers from multiple clusters and sectors from Andromeda, filling some sort of a distant spot from a larger community that exists. Or its a wasteland frontier rich in resourcers that lures in multiple native andromedan species from other places. The possibilites are numerous.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 8, 2017 20:40:01 GMT
Except that this is a speculation thread. So why are you commenting here unless to speculate about possibilities writers are thinking about? I'm trying to speculate... just in a different direction that you apparently want me to... and you keep attacking me in the process. If you are indeed a scientist, then even you should recognize that you're not actually qualified, based on available data, to speculate any more accurately than anyone else about what someone else is thinking about. BTW, your assertion that the extinct races were mentioned in ME1... they weren't. Liara expressly said that she could find essentially no information on any of the cycles that came before the Protheans. ... and on that note, I'm joining the others who have already said that they are out of here. Bye. Its supposed to be a debate, thats how debates work. I haven't heard one reason from you as to why you think the writers would write less races in andromeda other than ' they would'. When I put forward my point about your correlation isn't really valid, you leave. The other guy who left was deliberetely going off topic just to be argumentative and passive aggressive. He was discussing wordplay ( my use of the word 'impossible' rather than 'close to impossible') which is hardly conducive to an amicable debate rather than the actual topic. When I called him out on it, he left. Science works by creating a hypothesis based on an observation without further information about how the process you are investigating works. Thats why you do experiments to verify your hypothesis. Yes I think it was just the protheons and rachni that were mentioned as 'extinct races' in ME1.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 8, 2017 20:49:50 GMT
While reading over the thread and the advancement of our galaxy and possibly Andromeda, it occurred to me that of the species currently alive and living in Andromeda(in MEA storyline), the Andromeda Initiative could be the most advance group in the Helius Star Cluster. And they may be the only group with the technology to travel between star clusters. It would be interesting if the species native to the Helius Cluster know about the Remnant's ruins but lack the technology to interact with what the Remnant left behind. I find 3 species native to the same star cluster surprising. I would have to go dig through codex entries but I am pretty sure all of the species in Mass Effect 1-3 are from different solar systems/star clusters. Yes thats is because naturally evolving intelligence is quite rare, and it also doesnt always make to the spacefaring level (catastrophies could occur, anything from nuclear wars, to gaian collapses of the environment, to alien/AI invasions), thus we can only find a single civilization inside a single cluster. but arguments for the opposite reason: we also have to consider time, for instance in a couple of million years timeline several species could develop inside a single cluster, remember that there is apparently no reaper like restriction to this as far as we can tell, tough there could be other restrictions. Or then theres the panspermia creator possibility, where an advanced alien race actually creates or uplifts another race to sapience, for any reason(child species, creating new life experiments or creating slaves), creating life where no life exists, or cant exist(creating an artificial world maybe). Or the space could be filled with alien explorers and passengers from multiple clusters and sectors from Andromeda, filling some sort of a distant spot from a larger community that exists. Or its a wasteland frontier rich in resourcers that lures in multiple native andromedan species from other places. The possibilites are numerous. It is possible that the Kett and the Angara do not have FTL, but then they wouldn't be much of a threat in the game. They would be confined to thier own star systems. We see from the gameplay trailer in the vault that the remnant had vaults on many worlds, which is what Peebee points out. So the remnant must be spacefaring. But the status of the angara and Kett are not known. The kett appear to have ships so I would assume they are spacefaring.
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Post by armass81 on Feb 8, 2017 20:57:01 GMT
Yes thats is because naturally evolving intelligence is quite rare, and it also doesnt always make to the spacefaring level (catastrophies could occur, anything from nuclear wars, to gaian collapses of the environment, to alien/AI invasions), thus we can only find a single civilization inside a single cluster. but arguments for the opposite reason: we also have to consider time, for instance in a couple of million years timeline several species could develop inside a single cluster, remember that there is apparently no reaper like restriction to this as far as we can tell, tough there could be other restrictions. Or then theres the panspermia creator possibility, where an advanced alien race actually creates or uplifts another race to sapience, for any reason(child species, creating new life experiments or creating slaves), creating life where no life exists, or cant exist(creating an artificial world maybe). Or the space could be filled with alien explorers and passengers from multiple clusters and sectors from Andromeda, filling some sort of a distant spot from a larger community that exists. Or its a wasteland frontier rich in resourcers that lures in multiple native andromedan species from other places. The possibilites are numerous. It is possible that the Kett and the Angara do not have FTL, but then they wouldn't be much of a threat in the game. They would be confined to thier own star systems. We see from the gameplay trailer in the vault that the remnant had vaults on many worlds, which is what Peebee points out. So the remnant must be spacefaring. But the status of the angara and Kett are not known. The kett appear to have ships so I would assume they are spacefaring. Kett are definately spacefaring, they likely are also reverse engineering or using remnant technology. Leaks mention they are going after remnant vaults, so that kinda proves it. I dont know about the angarans, could be a true first contact for them with us unless theyve ran into the kett, or are explorers themselves. I think theyre native to the Heleus cluster tough. And either they have spacefaring tech or they get some from us, since we see them on other planets, like Kadara.
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Post by ProbeAway on Feb 8, 2017 21:08:34 GMT
That's the thing tho. I haven't accepted what's been given to me because barely anything HAS been given to me. And you dismissed point 2 as 'impossible' and point 3 as 'too vague'. I get the fun in speculating (I've done it about other aspects of the game) but the less starting info you have, the harder any meaningful speculation becomes. We don't even know how many other species we will come across yet, so of course people are 'suggesting things without enough information' - that's what you've asked them to do! Sorry if I sound like I'm trying to shut down the conversation, because that's not my intent. I just think you need to accept that most responses you get will be pretty general or vague is all. Maybe after the gameplay footage we'll apparently get next week there will be more to go on. Back in the days of battlestar galactica, the new series, my first post on the sci-fi forum was about how earth was the cylon homeworld, way back well before the beginning of the fourth season and I was right. The writers themselves had to speculate on the new story in andromeda, so I want to see what we can come up with and hoe close it is to the story. Use your imagination, but in a logical way! That's an answer to a very specific question tho. Its also far less of a leap, based on the info available in the first 3 seasons of BSG, than trying to theorise about a particular aspect of MEA that may or may not even be true. And I'm only in the middle of season 3 of BSG so.... :/ But I've already offered four general suggestions that are grounded in logic, even if some of them are less likely than others. You dismissed two of them outright and wanted more info on the others. Right now I think you're going to struggle to get any answers that satisfy you (as evidenced by the first 3 pages of this thread). Again, that's because we've got so little info to go on. FWIW, my own theory is that the Remnant are the reason we aren't seeing anything more in the Helius Cluster. But I'm only basing that on the advanced technological level of the Remnant, their apparent absence from the cluster and the existence of the scourge, which may or may not be relevant and may or may not be related to the Remnant. It's not much of a starting point.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 8, 2017 21:18:58 GMT
Back in the days of battlestar galactica, the new series, my first post on the sci-fi forum was about how earth was the cylon homeworld, way back well before the beginning of the fourth season and I was right. The writers themselves had to speculate on the new story in andromeda, so I want to see what we can come up with and hoe close it is to the story. Use your imagination, but in a logical way! That's an answer to a very specific question tho. Its also far less of a leap, based on the info available in the first 3 seasons of BSG, than trying to theorise about a particular aspect of MEA that may or may not even be true. And I'm only in the middle of season 3 of BSG so.... :/ But I've already offered four general suggestions that are grounded in logic, even if some of them are less likely than others. You dismissed two of them outright and wanted more info on the others. Right now I think you're going to struggle to get any answers that satisfy you (as evidenced by the first 3 pages of this thread). Again, that's because we've got so little info to go on. FWIW, my own theory is that the Remnant are the reason we aren't seeing anything more in the Helius Cluster. But I'm only basing that on the advanced technological level of the Remnant, their apparent absence from the cluster and the existence of the scourge, which may or may not be relevant and may or may not be related to the Remnant. It's not much of a starting point. Well, it wasn't a question at the time, just a hypothsis about where the writers wanted to take the story and I can tell you from the first 3 seasons in BSG, they had less information to come to that conclusion than the current information we have on ME:A. It was a massive leap. I mean you say the first four reasons were grounded in logic. I ask you how? There were no reasons given for coming to those conclusions and I already pointed out to you if you had been reading my previous reply, that I didn't dismiss them outright. I was looking for a rationale for you think so rather than wildly throwing out random ideas. It is possible that the remnant were part of a greater fallen empire because the word remnant means 'part of' so probably they were part of something bigger. What caused the downfall of the remnant may explain the downfall of other races. See thats what I'm looking for, rationale in the context o the game rather than ' there are fewer races in andromeda'....what? Why? Why would the writers do that? In your point 3 you just said the remnant were the dominant race until, something?? What does that mean? In previous points you mention andromeda species may not have mass relay technology level for galactic travel. Well like why? Are is the milky way a special case given that we were held back for billions of years by the reapers? You know what I mean?
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Post by ProbeAway on Feb 8, 2017 21:37:31 GMT
That's an answer to a very specific question tho. Its also far less of a leap, based on the info available in the first 3 seasons of BSG, than trying to theorise about a particular aspect of MEA that may or may not even be true. And I'm only in the middle of season 3 of BSG so.... :/ But I've already offered four general suggestions that are grounded in logic, even if some of them are less likely than others. You dismissed two of them outright and wanted more info on the others. Right now I think you're going to struggle to get any answers that satisfy you (as evidenced by the first 3 pages of this thread). Again, that's because we've got so little info to go on. FWIW, my own theory is that the Remnant are the reason we aren't seeing anything more in the Helius Cluster. But I'm only basing that on the advanced technological level of the Remnant, their apparent absence from the cluster and the existence of the scourge, which may or may not be relevant and may or may not be related to the Remnant. It's not much of a starting point. Well, it wasn't a question at the time, just a hypothsis about where the writers wanted to take the story and I can tell you from the first 3 seasons in BSG, they had less information to come to that conclusion than the current information we have on ME:A. It was a massive leap. I mean you say the first four reasons were grounded in logic. I ask you how? There were no reasons given for coming to those conclusions and I already pointed out to you if you had been reading my previous reply, that I didn't dismiss them outright. I was looking for a rationale for you think so rather than wildly throwing out random ideas. It is possible that the remnant were part of a greater fallen empire because the word remnant means 'part of' so probably they were part of something bigger. What caused the downfall of the remnant may explain the downfall of other races. See thats what I'm looking for, rationale in the context o the game rather than ' there are fewer races in andromeda'....what? Why? Why would the writers do that? In your point 3 you just said the remnant were the dominant race until, something?? What does that mean? In previous points you mention andromeda species may not have mass relay technology level for galactic travel. Well like why? Are is the milky way a special case given that we were held back for billions of years by the reapers? You know what I mean? I'm not trying to downplay your achievement in guessing the Cylon home world, I just think it was a far less open ended proposition than this one. When I said 'grounded in logic' all I meant was that my suggestions were feasible, based on the very little info we have, not that they were likely to be correct. I can't back them up with facts because we don't have the facts yet for me to do that. You've asked us to speculate on possible reasons for the lack of races (which may or may not be a false starting point anyway) and that is what I did. But you seem to want to debate speculation and that doesn't work particularly well. The reality is that I can't prove those ideas and you can't disprove them, which I think is why this thread is going around in circles.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 8, 2017 21:43:21 GMT
Well, it wasn't a question at the time, just a hypothsis about where the writers wanted to take the story and I can tell you from the first 3 seasons in BSG, they had less information to come to that conclusion than the current information we have on ME:A. It was a massive leap. I mean you say the first four reasons were grounded in logic. I ask you how? There were no reasons given for coming to those conclusions and I already pointed out to you if you had been reading my previous reply, that I didn't dismiss them outright. I was looking for a rationale for you think so rather than wildly throwing out random ideas. It is possible that the remnant were part of a greater fallen empire because the word remnant means 'part of' so probably they were part of something bigger. What caused the downfall of the remnant may explain the downfall of other races. See thats what I'm looking for, rationale in the context o the game rather than ' there are fewer races in andromeda'....what? Why? Why would the writers do that? In your point 3 you just said the remnant were the dominant race until, something?? What does that mean? In previous points you mention andromeda species may not have mass relay technology level for galactic travel. Well like why? Are is the milky way a special case given that we were held back for billions of years by the reapers? You know what I mean? I'm not trying to downplay your achievement in guessing the Cylon home world, I just think it was a far less open ended proposition than this one. When I said 'grounded in logic' all I meant was that my suggestions were feasible, based on the very little info we have, not that they were likely to be correct. I can't back them up with facts because we don't have the facts yet for me to do that. You've asked us to speculate on possible reasons for the lack of races (which may or may not be a false starting point anyway) and that is what I did. But you seem to want to debate speculation and that doesn't work particularly well. The reality is that I can't prove those ideas and you can't disprove them, which I think is why this thread is going around in circles. Well a lot of people put in very good ideas and the reason why they think s, so we made some progress. The only people that didn't like the thread seem to be people who don't like their ideas challenged with new ideas. (Im not referring to you but other people) and so they get nowhere. About the cylon thing, I guess you had to be there. It was THE major story arc plot twist of the entire series with little to no information to speculate. I figured given ( very little)available data and what was likely to be a narrative plot twist. Writers have had to discuss their ideas on the andromeda galaxy. So why shouldn't we do the same, even if they're wrong? In the ME universe, everything has some rationale behind it so the writers can't just throw out anything they like.
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Post by mjalpha on Feb 8, 2017 22:17:03 GMT
Maybe we should find out exploring in the game and not before. This, this, and more this. When it comes to both movies and games i'm one of those people that doesn't mind seeing a trailer or two, but I don't want too much given away before I can delve into it with both fists. Knowing too much from the outset ruins the excitement for me.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 8, 2017 23:57:49 GMT
Maybe we should find out exploring in the game and not before. This, this, and more this. When it comes to both movies and games i'm one of those people that doesn't mind seeing a trailer or two, but I don't want too much given away before I can delve into it with both fists. Knowing too much from the outset ruins the excitement for me. Thats great for the sheep, but I like to imagine the likely possibilities rather than just be given them. This is a speculation thread. If you can speculate and support some rationale behind your hypothesis, it is welcome here.
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