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Post by alanc9 on Feb 9, 2017 0:26:10 GMT
Back in the days of battlestar galactica, the new series, my first post on the sci-fi forum was about how earth was the cylon homeworld, way back well before the beginning of the fourth season and I was right. The writers themselves had to speculate on the new story in andromeda, so I want to see what we can come up with and hoe close it is to the story. Use your imagination, but in a logical way! Wait a minute..... what exactly did you predict? Earth wasn't really " the Cylon homeworld," after all. It was " a Cylon homeworld," like every other human world becomes given long enough. Most of the BSG Cylons had nothing to do with Earth. As for the topic, several of the trilogy races listed don't actually exist in the games except as codex entries or similar, so the list in the OP is a bit tendentious given that we can't include ME:A codex-only races yet.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 9, 2017 1:44:36 GMT
Back in the days of battlestar galactica, the new series, my first post on the sci-fi forum was about how earth was the cylon homeworld, way back well before the beginning of the fourth season and I was right. The writers themselves had to speculate on the new story in andromeda, so I want to see what we can come up with and hoe close it is to the story. Use your imagination, but in a logical way! Wait a minute..... what exactly did you predict? Earth wasn't really " the Cylon homeworld," after all. It was " a Cylon homeworld," like every other human world becomes given long enough. Most of the BSG Cylons had nothing to do with Earth. As for the topic, several of the trilogy races listed don't actually exist in the games except as codex entries or similar, so the list in the OP is a bit tendentious given that we can't include ME:A codex-only races yet. I predicted that the final five cylons had come from earth, and that earth was the ancient cylon homeworld (i.e. the cylons from Kobol rather than the cylons we know) rather than salvation for humanity. This was back when 4 of the 5 final cylons had just been revealed, a little after the temple of five episode. I thought this was likely because of the 'cycle that repeats itself through time' and also why did the 12 tribes go to the colonies while the 13th tribe went somewhere else, unless they were cylon? About 10 episodes later, it was shown I was right. Even if we accept your criteria and exclude codex races, there are still at least a dozen or more races in ME1 and three in ME:A that we know of. So not really tendentious at all. Did the writers not write any more races for andromeda in this game? And if so, what is their rationale for it? Why write a single cluster and not have anyone outside the cluster be able to interact with it, if the case is we only find 3 races?
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 9, 2017 2:47:20 GMT
Is there any evidence that any Cylons went from Kobol to Earth? We know that humans went, but weren't Cylons independently re-invented on Earth? Still, not a bad call.
It's tendentious to use criteria that disadvantage one side while pretending to be making an objective comparison. If you want to compare stuff, compare the same stuff.
I'll place a bet now. ME:A will have approximately the same number of racial models as ME1 did; say + or - 2 . The engine shift will mean that models can't be ported over easily, and more different models have failed the ROI test
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 9, 2017 3:12:17 GMT
Is there any evidence that any Cylons went from Kobol to Earth? We know that humans went, but weren't Cylons independently re-invented on Earth? Still, not a bad call. It's tendentious to use criteria that disadvantage one side while pretending to be making an objective comparison. If you want to compare stuff, compare the same stuff. I'll place a bet now. ME:A will have approximately the same number of racial models as ME1 did; say + or - 2 . The engine shift will mean that models can't be ported over easily, and more different models have failed the ROI test Yes, in the BSG tv series, it was the 5th cylon Ellen that said the cylons from Kobol made the temple of 5 before they went to earth and in the episode where they landed on earth, they confirmed that the remains were cylon. They weren't reinvented there because no humans were in the 13th tribe. Its been a long time now but I know someone pointed it out in the tv series that the cylons on earth were from Kobol. I understand your point, but I think its a bit of a moot point. Someone else pointed this out previously in the thead but if we only look at races that are non-codex is ME1, there are still at least over a dozen races in ME1 compared with ME:A which has 3. So it doesn't matter whether you just have ME1 races or include all races, the point is still valid.
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Post by mjalpha on Feb 9, 2017 16:24:29 GMT
This, this, and more this. When it comes to both movies and games i'm one of those people that doesn't mind seeing a trailer or two, but I don't want too much given away before I can delve into it with both fists. Knowing too much from the outset ruins the excitement for me. Thats great for the sheep, but I like to imagine the likely possibilities rather than just be given them. This is a speculation thread. If you can speculate and support some rationale behind your hypothesis, it is welcome here. The possibilities are literally endless. We could be coming into Andromeda during a mass extinction/extermination event where the last remaining races are fighting to decode/find Remnant technology that could save them (I know it sounds too much like the Reapers/Protheans/Crucible, but its still possible). Maybe even despite the absence of Reaper intervention the races of Andromeda still haven't progressed that far and still rely on FTL as their best means of travel. The Milky Way may have also just had an overabundance of planets in the Goldilocks Zones around their stars as compared to Andromeda, so we were spoiled by the diversity of the ME trilogy. BioWare could be saving the other races for later/other installments for reasons they believe are worthwhile. The Remnant may have triggered/caused some sort of galactic cataclysm that wiped out the majority of Andromeda's species and now the Angara and Kett, perhaps nothing more than pond scum at that point, are trying to discover what happened to them and the others. Hell, there could be some biological melting pot akin to Prothean and Asari reproduction going on where the Kett or Angara reproduced with and slowly absorbed the other races into their own. We will just have to wait and see at the end of the day unless BioWare does an info dump between now and the release date.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 9, 2017 19:39:16 GMT
Thats great for the sheep, but I like to imagine the likely possibilities rather than just be given them. This is a speculation thread. If you can speculate and support some rationale behind your hypothesis, it is welcome here. The possibilities are literally endless. We could be coming into Andromeda during a mass extinction/extermination event where the last remaining races are fighting to decode/find Remnant technology that could save them (I know it sounds too much like the Reapers/Protheans/Crucible, but its still possible). Maybe even despite the absence of Reaper intervention the races of Andromeda still haven't progressed that far and still rely on FTL as their best means of travel. The Milky Way may have also just had an overabundance of planets in the Goldilocks Zones around their stars as compared to Andromeda, so we were spoiled by the diversity of the ME trilogy. BioWare could be saving the other races for later/other installments for reasons they believe are worthwhile. The Remnant may have triggered/caused some sort of galactic cataclysm that wiped out the majority of Andromeda's species and now the Angara and Kett, perhaps nothing more than pond scum at that point, are trying to discover what happened to them and the others. Hell, there could be some biological melting pot akin to Prothean and Asari reproduction going on where the Kett or Angara reproduced with and slowly absorbed the other races into their own. We will just have to wait and see at the end of the day unless BioWare does an info dump between now and the release date. I think one of the writers or the producer has just said a few days ago on twitter or somewhere that andromeda doesn't go through extinction events like the reaper cycles such as happened in the milky way, so I doubt thats the case right now. When people suggest that anromeda races haven't advanced as far as the milky way races despite the fact that technological development was curtailed for all races in the MW for billions of years by the reapers, it suggests that the MW is special for no reason and the poor andromeden races are somehow worse off even though all of MW galactic civilisation and its technology wascompletely wiped out every 50 millennia ( I don't know how much worse off you can get than that). Also the over abundance of planets in the MW alone, a galaxy half the andromedas size also suggests that the MW is magic and defies probability. It doesn't seem very convincing.
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Post by degs29 on Feb 9, 2017 19:50:50 GMT
Consider the importance of Reaper tech in the expansion of the Milky Way. How many civilizations rose and fell before such tech was achieved? How rare is it for a race to make it that far before their downfall? Consider also our real-life situation, living in a 13.21B-year-old galaxy and we only just recently achieved spaceflight.
Look at our history of "eureka" moments, from the discovery of fire, the invention of the wheel and electricity, the landing on the moon, etc. Considering that the only method we know of for FTL travel involves Eezo, then the discover of not only Eezo, but the ability to manipulate it, is critical and might be quite rare.
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Post by mjalpha on Feb 9, 2017 21:15:18 GMT
The possibilities are literally endless. We could be coming into Andromeda during a mass extinction/extermination event where the last remaining races are fighting to decode/find Remnant technology that could save them (I know it sounds too much like the Reapers/Protheans/Crucible, but its still possible). Maybe even despite the absence of Reaper intervention the races of Andromeda still haven't progressed that far and still rely on FTL as their best means of travel. The Milky Way may have also just had an overabundance of planets in the Goldilocks Zones around their stars as compared to Andromeda, so we were spoiled by the diversity of the ME trilogy. BioWare could be saving the other races for later/other installments for reasons they believe are worthwhile. The Remnant may have triggered/caused some sort of galactic cataclysm that wiped out the majority of Andromeda's species and now the Angara and Kett, perhaps nothing more than pond scum at that point, are trying to discover what happened to them and the others. Hell, there could be some biological melting pot akin to Prothean and Asari reproduction going on where the Kett or Angara reproduced with and slowly absorbed the other races into their own. We will just have to wait and see at the end of the day unless BioWare does an info dump between now and the release date. I think one of the writers or the producer has just said a few days ago on twitter or somewhere that andromeda doesn't go through extinction events like the reaper cycles such as happened in the milky way, so I doubt thats the case right now. When people suggest that anromeda races haven't advanced as far as the milky way races despite the fact that technological development was curtailed for all races in the MW for billions of years by the reapers, it suggests that the MW is special for no reason and the poor andromeden races are somehow worse off even though all of MW galactic civilisation and its technology wascompletely wiped out every 50 millennia ( I don't know how much worse off you can get than that). Also the over abundance of planets in the MW alone, a galaxy half the andromedas size also suggests that the MW is magic and defies probability. It doesn't seem very convincing. If the producer did say that then excellent because that would have been lazy. As far as technological advancement in Andromeda is concerned we have no idea how old/young the Angara and Kett are unless this information has been disseminated (I really don't know and haven't looked), so gauging where they "should" be technologically can't really be done. And remember, it was only because of the Prothean ruins left on Mars that humanity was even propelled into the future in the first place. Who knows how long it would have taken humanity to progress had the Protheans decided the Sol system wasn't interesting enough to visit. We also haven't seen any proof definitively that the races of Andromeda have access to something as commonplace as eezo (which does make the milky way special for obvious reasons) or their own equivalent. Also there's a good possibility that some of the races of Andromeda didn't go the way of a reaper-like extinction, but rather the way of nuclear holocausts akin to a few of the Milky Way species. An interesting perspective I think we should also take into consideration is this, Leviathan->Catalyst->Reapers->Relays. It literally took creatures with near god-level intellect creating an even more superior AI that synthesized all life in the MW in order to create the mass relays and therefore a reasonable means of transport throughout the Milky Way. If it took that much just to create a way of travel superior to FTL, Andromeda having millions of years of a head start or not doesn't at all mean that they would or could have managed the same or an equivalent feat. This also shouldn't be a knock against them because there are just too many variables to consider in terms of them making progress that can't just be explained away with "well they had x amount of time to figure it out". I don't think the size differences between the MW and Andromeda really suggest anything apart from probability. Yes, a larger galaxy has a better chance of possessing more species/resource diversity and the corresponding technology over time, but it isn't a given even if we're talking about a video game.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 10, 2017 16:10:42 GMT
Consider the importance of Reaper tech in the expansion of the Milky Way. How many civilizations rose and fell before such tech was achieved? How rare is it for a race to make it that far before their downfall? Consider also our real-life situation, living in a 13.21B-year-old galaxy and we only just recently achieved spaceflight. Look at our history of "eureka" moments, from the discovery of fire, the invention of the wheel and electricity, the landing on the moon, etc. Considering that the only method we know of for FTL travel involves Eezo, then the discover of not only Eezo, but the ability to manipulate it, is critical and might be quite rare. Well of the reaper at Dis is anything to go by, the MW achieved the technology over 1 billion years previously if not more. Thats a 1 billion year technological gap between someone from andromeda and the leviathan from the MW. The only thing which the reapers might have done is if these more advanced races were prone to some kind of downfall, at least the reapers maintained the knowledge discovered by the leviathan for over a billion years rather than having it lost. The real world example of this is during the european dark ages, Islam was responsible for recording and keeping the knowledge discovered in Europe over 1000 eyars previously, until we had use of it again during the renaissance. Otherwise, the discoveries of the greeks might have been lost forever along with all the other knowledge lost though time. I don't think you can use humanity as an example in real life. For one thing, humans have just arrived in the universe and for a second, humanity is only single data point in probably countless data points throughout the universe. There was nothing stopping a sentient race from beginning civilisation in our universe 1 billion years ago or 5 billion years ago somewhere in the universe. And if they are around today, they would be frighteningly more advanced than humanity. For a third thing, although its not confirmed, it looks like remnant technology is very different to milky way technology. The remnant seem to manipulate gravity as opposed to altering mass through ezero. So we don't even know if they use ezero in their technology
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Post by degs29 on Feb 10, 2017 16:54:20 GMT
Consider the importance of Reaper tech in the expansion of the Milky Way. How many civilizations rose and fell before such tech was achieved? How rare is it for a race to make it that far before their downfall? Consider also our real-life situation, living in a 13.21B-year-old galaxy and we only just recently achieved spaceflight. Look at our history of "eureka" moments, from the discovery of fire, the invention of the wheel and electricity, the landing on the moon, etc. Considering that the only method we know of for FTL travel involves Eezo, then the discover of not only Eezo, but the ability to manipulate it, is critical and might be quite rare. I don't think you can use humanity as an example in real life. For one thing, humans have just arrived in the universe and for a second, humanity is only single data point in probably countless data points throughout the universe. There was nothing stopping a sentient race from beginning civilisation in our universe 1 billion years ago or 5 billion years ago somewhere in the universe. And if they are around today, they would be frighteningly more advanced than humanity. I think this is a philosophical discussion. One of the major questions facing humanity today is "will we wipe ourselves out before we make our species immortal?". Despite our technological advances, we are still utterly dependent on one planet. We already have the means to wipe ourselves out with nuclear weapons, and depending on your POV we may already be killing our planet in terms of its ability to sustain life. How long does it take to develop the tech to either successfully terraform a local planet, or travel far enough to populate a foreign planet? How long do we have left before we blow ourselves up or render our planet inhospitable to human life? Think of how long it took human beings to evolve from when life was first born on Earth. We are the first intelligent species (that we know of) to develop spaceflight in the over 4.5B years since the Earth was formed. On a galactic scale, we don't know if that is a normal length of time, above average or below average. We don't know if an average even exists! Maybe we just got lucky to reach this far; a chain of fortunate technological discoveries and close calls with catastrophic global events. Perhaps it is a natural progression to kill your own species off before developing the tech to travel among the stars. In which case, how likely is it that an intelligent race has overcome that possibility and advanced far beyond our own means? How unique are we?
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