Mihura
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“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
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Post by Mihura on Apr 4, 2017 23:36:04 GMT
So how do you imagine that? If they have sexual needs and feel sexual attraction they don't have sex because they wear chastity belt? Sorry for jumping to conclusion you meant asexuality. It can be for any number of reasons. Maybe they want to wait until after the current crisis is dealt with or until they have been going out for a longer period of time. I mean they haven't even had an official first date yet. Maybe Suvi and/or Sarah want to wait until they are married before they have sex. So on and so forth. Apology accepted. Thank you. In the entire history of Bioware romances, there is only one character I have ever called asexual or demisexual and that is Josephine Montilyet from Dragon Age: Inquisition, and even then only after her writer stated on Twitter that those were perfectly valid interpretations of her character. Even if Suvi is asexual or demi, this does not mean she did not had sex. The same way that Sebastian is straight but does not have sex. Suvi is a lesbian and to me there is no way out of that, especially after the way part of the fandom has been ignored by bioware. Personally I see Josephine as demi too but that is because all the other sexualities are there in game, also since she is bi, it works well too so everyone can have something. Maybe one day bioware will do something on the ace spectrum but ME:A is not it.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Apr 5, 2017 1:20:34 GMT
I think there's no black and white here, Gil was created as gay option, but his romance with Jill in between has a lot of homophobic connotations (screw you with your breeding plan sister) and lesbians are just a toy they keep using for their dudebros pandering. Either way LGBTQ players are second class to them, and we're screwed anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ We can unite ourselves with torches and pitchforks instead of fighting for who was screwed the most this time. Our salt is our power peeps. If my comments look like I try to argue that lesbian players have it worse than gay men then I apologize, English is not my first language and sometimes it's hard for me to 100% accurately translate my thoughts. What I argued against was conclusion that because lesbians got 4 options we have no right to complain. Perhaps I unnecessarily mentioned Gil in this argument, but it was to emphasize different aspects that should be taken into consideration before making such judgments. But you're right, we are evidently both second class players to this team and they would want nothing more than have us infighting. Nah dont worry, I totally feel you in the matter and your english is fine, more than mine with my spanish little brain doing the writing :dumb: Hey you all should do the letter to send feedback to Bioware, f/f issues is something that needs to be addressed as well, I wrote something about it in mine
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 5, 2017 3:17:02 GMT
It can be for any number of reasons. Maybe they want to wait until after the current crisis is dealt with or until they have been going out for a longer period of time. I mean they haven't even had an official first date yet. Maybe Suvi and/or Sarah want to wait until they are married before they have sex. So on and so forth. Apology accepted. Thank you. In the entire history of Bioware romances, there is only one character I have ever called asexual or demisexual and that is Josephine Montilyet from Dragon Age: Inquisition, and even then only after her writer stated on Twitter that those were perfectly valid interpretations of her character. Even if Suvi is asexual or demi, this does not mean she did not had sex. The same way that Sebastian is straight but does not have sex. Suvi is a lesbian and to me there is no way out of that, especially after the way part of the fandom has been ignored by bioware. Personally I see Josephine as demi too but that is because all the other sexualities are there in game, also since she is bi, it works well too so everyone can have something. Maybe one day bioware will do something on the ace spectrum but ME:A is not it. I know. The romance was written according to the devs to be ambiguous on that point. So those who want to see Sarah and Suvi as having sex can, and those who want to see them as not also can. I know Suvi is a lesbian. That's what I said. Yeah DAI really is their shining beacon when it comes to representation. Among the main cast they have a gay man with Dorian, a lesbian with Sera, a pansexual man with The Iron Bull, a bisexual woman with Leliana, and Josephine who is the first Bioware LI dev-approved to be seen as part of the ace spectrum. And that's just the squad and advisors. They also have trans representation with Krem, and there are several characters some whom are very important who are LGBT+. Hopefully one day Mass Effect will be able to catch up.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 5, 2017 5:24:34 GMT
This should be the final word on the Suvi issue:
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Post by cratto on Apr 5, 2017 8:33:32 GMT
This should be the final word on the Suvi issue: Prima strikes again. Do the devs and/or writers not check it before it goes out! Sigh.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 5, 2017 9:21:55 GMT
This should be the final word on the Suvi issue: It could be just a damage control she was told to say. Simple "no" won't stop the doubt when there are so many things contradicting her statement which she didn't address at all. The stuff with Prima Guide is not merely wrong information. They did that before (and most of the time the reason was Bioware changing things in final build), but the thing is, the information is correct, Suvi is romanceable by women only, it's the screenshot from gameplay they attached that shows her romancing Scott. What's the probability that Bioware sent them game's build that somehow had a "bug" that allowed male Ryder to romance Suvi? What's more, even if there was a bug why would those guide's guys still take those screenshots and put them into guide while knowing from the start she's supposed to be gay and it's just a bug? And if it was just that one thing I could believe it was some really weird error or something, but it's not just one thing. Suvi also, unlike every other non-bisexual romance interest never gives even the slighest hint what her sexuality is, when Liam, Cora and Gil make you know that they like men/women. She hides her sexuality from Scott hitting on her and you will have no idea she's supposed to be lesbian if you don't read forums. And the last thing, remember how Suvi's voice actress said that she has no idea about the rumors Suvi is gay? She was accused of teasing straight guys at the expense of lesbians which seemed to really hurt her and she even mentioned in response she wouldn't do that because she's a part of LGBT community. So most likely she really had no idea her character is supposed to be gay. Which means she wasn't given any memo saying that, and that she most likely recorded romance lines directed at Scott.
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Post by Bendayd on Apr 5, 2017 9:52:34 GMT
This should be the final word on the Suvi issue: It could be just a damage control she was told to say. Simple "no" won't stop the doubt when there are so many things contradicting her statement which she didn't address at all. The stuff with Prima Guide is not merely wrong information. They did that before (and most of the time the reason was Bioware changing things in final build), but the thing is, the information is correct, Suvi is romanceable by women only, it's the screenshot from gameplay they attached that shows her romancing Scott. What's the probability that Bioware sent them game's build that somehow had a "bug" that allowed male Ryder to romance Suvi? What's more, even if there was a bug why would those guide's guys still take those screenshots and put them into guide while knowing from the start she's supposed to be gay and it's just a bug? And if it was just that one thing I could believe it was some really weird error or something, but it's not just one thing. Suvi also, unlike every other non-bisexual romance interest never gives even the slighest hint what her sexuality is, when Liam, Cora and Gil make you know that they like men/women. She hides her sexuality from Scott hitting on her and you will have no idea she's supposed to be lesbian if you don't read forums. And the last thing, remember how Suvi's voice actress said that she has no idea about the rumors Suvi is gay? She was accused of teasing straight guys at the expense of lesbians which seemed to really hurt her and she even mentioned in response she wouldn't do that because she's a part of LGBT community. So most likely she really had no idea her character is supposed to be gay. Which means she wasn't given any memo saying that, and that she most likely recorded romance lines directed at Scott. -It's clear that whatever they say, you'll never change your mind, because you just want them to fail. -The probability of a bug is HIGH, they probably received a very early build to have time to make the guide...which means lots of bugs... Why keep the screenshots then? Well because the Prima Guide's team is lazy as hell, and unreliable, there are other mistakes in this guide. -Where's the problem? She doesn't HIDE her sexuality, she just doesn't shout out loud that she's a lesbian, and I remind you that the writers are different for every characters, so Sheryl Chee perhaps thought I wasn't necessary, because it's not... -She recorded romance sentences with SARA's name in it, and there is nothing in the game's audio files that suggest that there's a Scott romance somewhere, if they had removed Scott/Suvi late in the project, some files would still be accessible... Just get it over with god damnit, she's gay, she was always intended to be gay.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 5, 2017 10:42:37 GMT
It could be just a damage control she was told to say. Simple "no" won't stop the doubt when there are so many things contradicting her statement which she didn't address at all. The stuff with Prima Guide is not merely wrong information. They did that before (and most of the time the reason was Bioware changing things in final build), but the thing is, the information is correct, Suvi is romanceable by women only, it's the screenshot from gameplay they attached that shows her romancing Scott. What's the probability that Bioware sent them game's build that somehow had a "bug" that allowed male Ryder to romance Suvi? What's more, even if there was a bug why would those guide's guys still take those screenshots and put them into guide while knowing from the start she's supposed to be gay and it's just a bug? And if it was just that one thing I could believe it was some really weird error or something, but it's not just one thing. Suvi also, unlike every other non-bisexual romance interest never gives even the slighest hint what her sexuality is, when Liam, Cora and Gil make you know that they like men/women. She hides her sexuality from Scott hitting on her and you will have no idea she's supposed to be lesbian if you don't read forums. And the last thing, remember how Suvi's voice actress said that she has no idea about the rumors Suvi is gay? She was accused of teasing straight guys at the expense of lesbians which seemed to really hurt her and she even mentioned in response she wouldn't do that because she's a part of LGBT community. So most likely she really had no idea her character is supposed to be gay. Which means she wasn't given any memo saying that, and that she most likely recorded romance lines directed at Scott. -It's clear that whatever they say, you'll never change your mind, because you just want them to fail.After this accusation I think any reasonable discussion with you is impossible. You are resorting to personal attacks, implying I'm awful ill-intentioned person who just wants to make "them" fail. All the evidence to the contrary casts huge doubt on Sheryl's statement so I'm personally not convinced by it, but it's also not like I blame her for anything since I know she doesn't really have much to say in decision making. Since she apparently fought for bi Vetra maybe it was even her who's behind Suvi being locked for f/f only, that she actually fought to provide lesbians at least this substitute for representation, even if her supervisors had her write Suvi as originally yet another romance option for Scott.
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Post by Kaazmiin on Apr 5, 2017 11:05:00 GMT
No new fan art today. Instead, I found a screenshot comparison on tumblr that might back up what Sheryl claimed. The screenshot from the prima guide: ...and a screenshot of the same scene with Sara/SisRyder from the launch version: It does seem like the scene fits much better with female Ryder than male Ryder, since Suvi actually looks her in the eye. I have no idea what might have gone wrong in the making of this guide, or how it's possible that the guys at primagames weren't informed which romance is intended for which character, so that they could capture the appropriate screenshots, but at least this seems to point to carelessness during the making of the guide more than carelessness during the making of the romance. It's still very embarassing for BioWare, but not as embarassing as it would be if they had forgotten to include a lesbian crewmate and romance option from the start.
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Post by disgustednoise on Apr 5, 2017 11:37:05 GMT
Alternative theory: Sheryl might have always intended for Suvi to be gay only to be over ruled by someone above her and then that decision was eventually reversed. The screenshots are too concrete for this to only be a mistake on Prima's end, but that also doesn't mean Sheryl is necessarily being dishonest either.
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Post by Bendayd on Apr 5, 2017 11:45:11 GMT
-It's clear that whatever they say, you'll never change your mind, because you just want them to fail.After this accusation I think any reasonable discussion with you is impossible. You are resorting to personal attacks, implying I'm awful ill-intentioned person who just wants to make "them" fail. All the evidence to the contrary casts huge doubt on Sheryl's statement so I'm personally not convinced by it, but it's also not like I blame her for anything since I know she doesn't really have much to say in decision making. Since she apparently fought for bi Vetra maybe it was even her who's behind Suvi being locked for f/f only, that she actually fought to provide lesbians at least this substitute for representation, even if her supervisors had her write Suvi as originally yet another romance option for Scott. I'm sorry if you feel "attacked", I'm getting physically tired of all this thing, because we're shitting on Bioware for theories instead of focusing on real problems (real lack of m/m, animations, bugs, etc), and this thread is not the place for that. A "reasonable discussion" works both ways. I've actually tried to show you counter arguments, but all you can see is your point of view because you're "salty" of the situation (which I could understand if it wasn't just a day dream). This whole Scott/Suvi story is a complete stupidity, you have to understand that all the "evidences" are not evidences, and can be debunked assuming you don't want them to fail. Even if for many people this game is a failure (which I don't think it is, the fact that the game is unpolished is EA's fault, not Bioware), I still trust Bioware more than this shitty team of Prima that launches stupid non-existent debates with all of their books. I really liked reading this thread, and then Prima came with a bugged version of the game and everything went to hell. Alternative theory: Sheryl might have always intended for Suvi to be gay only to be over ruled by someone above her and then that decision was eventually reversed. The screenshots are too concrete for this to only be a mistake on Prima's end, but that also doesn't mean Sheryl is necessarily being dishonest either. I really don't see how the screenshots are concrete. They had a very early build, and knowing a bit of how coding works, a simple error can cause that kind of bug. And of course it's not only Prima's fault, they are not coding the game, so yeah Bioware has a reponsibility in this, but that doesn't mean they meant to make suvi bi.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 5, 2017 15:04:22 GMT
This should be the final word on the Suvi issue: Prima strikes again. Do the devs and/or writers not check it before it goes out! Sigh. The strange thing is other than those pictures the guide gets her romance right since multiple times it talks about how Suvi is available only to Sarah. I'm going with the idea of it being either a bugged or placeholder scene, or maybe a practical joke that was in poor taste by someone.
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Post by Serza on Apr 5, 2017 19:26:54 GMT
This should be the final word on the Suvi issue: Word of God. Conclusion achieved. Got answers. Thank you.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 5, 2017 20:16:35 GMT
After this accusation I think any reasonable discussion with you is impossible. You are resorting to personal attacks, implying I'm awful ill-intentioned person who just wants to make "them" fail. All the evidence to the contrary casts huge doubt on Sheryl's statement so I'm personally not convinced by it, but it's also not like I blame her for anything since I know she doesn't really have much to say in decision making. Since she apparently fought for bi Vetra maybe it was even her who's behind Suvi being locked for f/f only, that she actually fought to provide lesbians at least this substitute for representation, even if her supervisors had her write Suvi as originally yet another romance option for Scott. I'm sorry if you feel "attacked", I'm getting physically tired of all this thing, because we're shitting on Bioware for theories instead of focusing on real problems (real lack of m/m, animations, bugs, etc), and this thread is not the place for that. In other words, "sorry you feel offended". You're not going to dictate what "real problems" are. And I criticized m/m issue too, thank you very much, while your post history shows that you mention it only for the purpose of distraction -- your previous and the only other mention, in this very thread: "I honestly feel worse for m/m romances shippers that only have 2 romances". Says it all. You know how does your wording look like? "I hate it so it's stupid and fake! I can debunk it BIGLY!". Nevermind this "debunk" is just your theories meant to defend this team at all cost. Your response to the screenshot? Prima Guide messed it up!! But how, they just played what Bioware sent them? It was a bug!! But surely they would know it and wouldn't even try to romance her in Scott gameplay? They're just lazy!!There's only one claim that deserves some consideration here - the claim that there are only audio files with Sara's name. Still wouldn't be anything definitive but would cast some actual doubt. But I certainly won't believe you for a word, last time I checked datamining thread they were only focused on Jaal and no one really paid much attention to Suvi. Oh, it's another "shitty" very ill-intentioned spooky team of people that just did it intentionally, to make us hate Bioware! Sure, believe that. Nothing will shake your faith in this studio, which even putting this thing aside treated gay male players like sh*t and there's no question about that. But I assume it stops being any problem when it's not used to distract the attention from the issues of lesbian players?
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Post by miso9 on Apr 5, 2017 20:21:18 GMT
This should be the final word on the Suvi issue: Word of God. Conclusion achieved. Got answers. Thank you. I assume you reacted the same way when the Word of Casey Hudson told you there are no lesbian romances in Mass Effect because Asari are genderless species?
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Post by miso9 on Apr 5, 2017 20:27:00 GMT
Prima strikes again. Do the devs and/or writers not check it before it goes out! Sigh. The strange thing is other than those pictures the guide gets her romance right since multiple times it talks about how Suvi is available only to Sarah. I'm going with the idea of it being either a bugged or placeholder scene, or maybe a practical joke that was in poor taste by someone. There's dedicated space on each page for every picture so obviously it's easier to change a line of text than already saved screenshots.
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Post by Bendayd on Apr 5, 2017 21:07:02 GMT
miso9Fine, I give up, I can't debate with someone who twists everything I say. You want to stay angry? Fine. And no, my faith in Bioware as a whole isn't unshakable, but it is on this matter. So bye, I'll leave you in your anger.
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Post by miso9 on Apr 5, 2017 21:15:52 GMT
No new fan art today. Instead, I found a screenshot comparison on tumblr that might back up what Sheryl claimed. The screenshot from the prima guide: ...and a screenshot of the same scene with Sara/SisRyder from the launch version: It does seem like the scene fits much better with female Ryder than male Ryder, since Suvi actually looks her in the eye. I have no idea what might have gone wrong in the making of this guide, or how it's possible that the guys at primagames weren't informed which romance is intended for which character, so that they could capture the appropriate screenshots, but at least this seems to point to carelessness during the making of the guide more than carelessness during the making of the romance. It's still very embarassing for BioWare, but not as embarassing as it would be if they had forgotten to include a lesbian crewmate and romance option from the start. How would it be carelessness during the making of the guide? They didn't mod the game just to put Scott in the place of Sara, that's the build they got. If like you propose it was some bug and they didn't know it because they somehow didn't get the memo Suvi is supposed to be gay, they would quickly realize it's just a bug from the fact that the scene would just look evidently wrong with animations, sizes, clipping etc., so this juxtaposition makes it even less likely it was just some mistake caused by bug. EDIT: the scene with Scott if not intended also shouldn't be voiced, so it's another thing that would make it painfully obvious to Prima team that something's wrong. The easiest explanation remains the most plausible one, specially when it fits with the other thing that makes Suvi stand out - not giving the slighest hint what her sexuality is as the only non-bisexual romance interest. There's also the fact her voice actress said she didn't know her character is supposed to be gay (though it could be just teasing straight guys -- but then again she declared she wouldn't do something like that).
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Post by Serza on Apr 5, 2017 21:19:08 GMT
Word of God. Conclusion achieved. Got answers. Thank you. I assume you reacted the same way when the Word of Casey Hudson told you there are no lesbian romances in Mass Effect because Asari are genderless species? Haven't been there for that presumed clusterfuck, no. It is however puzzling me why would you react this way. Unless, of course...
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Post by miso9 on Apr 5, 2017 21:37:01 GMT
I assume you reacted the same way when the Word of Casey Hudson told you there are no lesbian romances in Mass Effect because Asari are genderless species? Haven't been there for that presumed clusterfuck, no. It is however puzzling me why would you react this way. Unless, of course... Sorry, my English is evidently not good enough to make me understand what are you trying to imply.
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Post by Serza on Apr 5, 2017 22:08:41 GMT
Haven't been there for that presumed clusterfuck, no. It is however puzzling me why would you react this way. Unless, of course... Sorry, my English is evidently not good enough to make me understand what are you trying to imply. Is it, now...
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Oy Gay
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Apr 6, 2017 0:37:56 GMT
Anyways, Suvi is a lesbian. And, frembly remunger, Vetra thinks Suvi's voice is hot. Vetra/Suvi, anyone?
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Post by Crim on Apr 6, 2017 9:36:30 GMT
This should be the final word on the Suvi issue: And the last thing, remember how Suvi's voice actress said that she has no idea about the rumors Suvi is gay? She was accused of teasing straight guys at the expense of lesbians which seemed to really hurt her and she even mentioned in response she wouldn't do that because she's a part of LGBT community. So most likely she really had no idea her character is supposed to be gay. Which means she wasn't given any memo saying that, and that she most likely recorded romance lines directed at Scott. I had a feeling she was part of the community. Every time I tweeted her she was cool enough to reply, she's really sweet. Don't have a bad word to say about Katy tbh.
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SilentK
N3
Single-player only =)
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by SilentK on Apr 6, 2017 11:05:40 GMT
If there's a sequel, Suvi should have space to study on the ship. Maybe have a setup similar to what Dr.Bryson had in the Leviathan dlc. I mean like the part where Shepard can activate the microscope to study the rock that was there. And give her a loyalty mission. Bioware. If you need an idea for a loyalty mission for Suvi, give me a call. One thing I did like about her is saying hello or welcome back when returning to the tempest after a mission. I would like something like this, wouldn't hurt if Kallo got some screentime as well, they seem to be good friends
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Post by Crim on Apr 6, 2017 15:43:06 GMT
I still don't know how I missed out on that introduction scene with Suvi, I'll have to remedy this in my next run.
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