Suvi Anwar (Official Thread)

Your Ryder is very dedicated to being an Infiltrator.

disgustednoise Bioware's fix it patch strikes again! Same thing happened with my movie night. Peebs was hugging air.

Well she did block me for no reason... 

I asked where Bioware devs said anything like that. It would be awful if they really did, since it would be just shameless pandering at the expense of lesbian players once again showing us we are just an afterthought to them. They didn't bother to provide us even one romance scene. That thing with Peebee is just half-assed not-making-any-sense copypaste of straight sex scene which is really offensive on its own. The only reason Suvi doesn't have sex scene is because they didn't want to waste resources on us (and given that Suvi was most likely designed as romance option for Scott, it's probable she had straight sex scene but they obviously had to cut that out, since a mere copypaste Peebee-style would be a dead giveaway she was not originally intended to be a lesbian to anyone who saw it).

And now I hear some Bioware devs (but not Sheryl judging from her twitter) shamelessly try to use treating lesbians as an afterthought to score points for "diversity" by implying the only lesbian character could also not be a lesbian if you want because we didn't bother to give gay women even one sex scene?

Since that's all what this is about. I remember HI tried to argue "nonsexual" romance doesn't have to imply the character is asexual, but that's definitely what people think judging from social media. For example there's this guy on Twitter who constantly bombarded Bioware with demands for it and who already thanked Sheryl for "beautiful nonsexual romance" and who is not hiding his intentions that he just wants Suvi to be degayed, as that's one of his tweets: "Can Suvi be seen as asexual or demisexual as well as a lesbian, like how Josephine could be seen as those as well as bisexual?".
Co-option and appropriation, that's all what this is about.

So again, where did Bioware devs say that Suvi and Sara don't have sex?

And she probably didn't understand why she was being accused of it since now it looks like they probably had her record Scott lines as well.

It was in a PM chat I had with a dev on here. Before the game came out I asked how the romances would be in regards to sex scenes, specifically if there were romances that didn't involve it or left it to interpretation. They replied that some were written to be explicit, while others were written in an ambiguous way so players can interpret how they want. After the game came out, I asked them to thank Jo Berry and Sheryl Chee for what they did with the Cora and Suvi romances respectively and they mentioned that Suvi was the exact romance they thought of when they first read my question. 
As a side note, they also mentioned that Suvi's romance is their personal favorite in the game. 

Also, I ask you to not insult and slander my friend you are referring to on Twitter. First, they did not constantly demand. There is a difference between asking, mostly for other people like me who don't have Twitter, and demanding it. Also, he does not want Suvi to be degayed. Many LGBT+ people I've seen talk about how asexuality or demisexuality can append the gender-related orientations. For example demi-heterosexual or ace-bisexual. In Suvi's case, if Sheryl's answer to that question is yes then Suvi would still be a leabian, just one that say needs a strong bond with a woman before feeling sexual attraction. And if Sheryl's answer is no, my friend couldn't care less that Suvi is a lesbian without those appends. 

Then thanks for confirming lesbians really are an afterthought to this team. Like I said, not bothering to provide even one actual sex scene and they apparently shamelessly insist that throwing lesbians under the bus makes them somehow more "progressive".


Your friend wants Suvi to be asexual/demisexual, to have no sexual feelings towards women. He, a man, wants to take away from representation of gay women like me. And yes, he does that a lot, he also wants to get this done to Lexi because he likes her too.
Sexual orientation is about sexual attraction. Meanwhile there is strong evidence any emotional preferences are nothing really hardwired. But regardless of that, *lesbian* is a synonym to *homosexual* woman. Not "homoromantic" woman. You can't be asexual and homosexual at the same time. What is "asexual lesbian" anyway? A woman who likes to hold hands with other women? Who's more emotionally close to women than to men? That's exactly the homophobic stereotype many hold about lesbians already, that we don't know what "real sex" is because for "real sex" a woman needs a man.

This whole argument is just an attempt to co-opt and appropriate the culture of a different sexual minority. Why I am not surprised that the LGBT group with minimal visibility (behind gay men and bisexual women as the data from GLAAD report I mentioned earlier showed) is always the target for this?
 
People who want Suvi to be asexual/demisexual are exactly on the same level as those who want Suvi to be bisexual or even straight. I hope you don't.

I already received the answer to my question which stands as another confirmation that this team doesn't respect lesbian players, so that's fine by me.

I'll admit,I'm not usually one to post here. I used to be on the old Social BioWare forums a long time ago.I'm more of a lurker, I enjoy the community here and mostly enjoy reading through the discussions and topics here, but I had to register and respond to this.I don't want to stir things up again here, so I apologize to the mods, but I would just like to give my opinion and clear the air here,and then I'll drop it. I just find it abit disrespectful that some lesbians on this thread seem to argue and mock or look down on others who may see Suvi as a non-sexual lesbian option for other asexuals, or asexual lesbians like me. Heaven forbid there's lesbians out there who are asexual lesbians or prefer to have non-sexual lesbian relationships.I've been involved and worked in the LGBTQIA community both online and in my area for the last 10 years. Being a lesbian is not all about being sexually attracted to women, maybe to some lesbians it can be,but for most lesbians I know personally and online, and speaking as an asexual lesbian myself (or homoromantic as we are also known,but I prefer ace lesbian), being a lesbian means being attracted to women in different ways, not just sexually.

Asexuals come in all different types, and orientations, there's lesbian and gay asexuals, and even bi-asexuals, and even aromantic asexuals. Some lesbians I've met online and in real life (including asexual lesbians and some demisexuals) have and prefer romantic relationships with a woman but with no sex. Just as there are aromantic and asexual lesbians who are lesbians but don't have sex or romantic relationships, but perfer women because they connect more emotionally with a woman, and still crave that love or close personal loving relationship with a woman without sex. I even know a lesbian online who identifies as a lesbian aromantic, asexual and homosensual, because when she does get the rare urge to cuddle, kiss (or dance) with someone,she always wants it to be another woman, that doesn't make them any less of a lesbian.

I'm an asexual lesbian, I'm not sexually attracted to anyone, but I am romantically, aesthetically and emotionally attracted only to women.I'm still a lesbian,cause I still crave that connection and meaningful loving relationship with a woman, just on a completely other level rather than sexual. I'm still attracted and like women's bodies (on a different level than sexual), and can even enjoy cuddling and kissing to some extent but thats as far as it goes for me.

Asexuals are defined as asexual because they don't experience sexual attraction and for them other people aren’t sexually attractive or sexually appealing in their minds (because the possibility of sex with other people isn’t particularly compelling for them). Some can be sex repulsed as well,while other asexuals can still be sex-positive and enjoy sex (some can even get aroused or masturbate, but still not be sexually attracted to anyone). They are still asexual, because sexual arousal, sex drive, and sexual attraction are different things.Sexual arousal is a physiological response; sex drive suggests a desire to respond to arousal or a desire to pursue sex; and sexual attraction suggests an experience of finding someone sexually appealing. That does not mean that their genitals must be incapable of arousal; and it does not mean they’re necessarily unable to enjoy stimulation or even sex if thats what they want and consent to it.

I love Suvi's romance,and for me it's just as legitimate for her and Ryder to be asexual lesbian partners, because that romance scene is still left ambiguous. As an asexual (butch) lesbian I'm still just as much of a lesbian as regular lesbians who chose to have and enjoy sex,and have just as much of a right to see Suvi's relationship as a healthy asexual romantic lesbian relationship, as those who wish to see her relationship with their Ryder as sexual. I respect sexual lesbians who chose to have sexual relationships, so I think it would be nice for those here to know that there are lesbian asexuals such as myself, and to please respect us as well, and not mock or put down others here who think Suvi's romance is asexual or that her and Sara Ryder might be asexual lesbians.

While I'm really grateful that Bioware chose to make her romance ambiguous for asexuals such as lesbian asexuals, bi-asexual women, or even demisexual, if thats what you want to play your Ryder as. I know that some lesbians and bisexual women who romance her might be disappointed at her not having a sex scene, and I respect that and for them, yeah, I wholeheartedly agree that there should definitely be an option in the game for an optional sex scene if they want it (even if I won't pick that option in my playthrough because I chose to play my Ryder as an asexual lesbian), just as I agree there should be an option for a romantic non-sexual or ambiguous scene for those who still want to romance the character without the sex, that way everyone will be happy.

I think the best way, would be to make all romances have a sex and non-sexual romance option for your character to chose whether you want to have sex or not,but still continue the romance and relationship.So those who want to have the sex scene can still do that by choosing that dialogue option (or activating with an interrupt option) but those that don't, instead of having sex, they can still have the dialogue option to do something else romantic together, like cuddle, or kiss and enjoy each others company spending a meaningful moment together without any sex (like there's a romantic version of Cora's romance with no sex).That way everyone wins, those who want their sex scenes can have it, and asexuals like me can still have their romances and relationships without sex.

I think Bioware could learn a thing or two from the people who make those interactive novel games over at Choice of Games.With those games you can choose whether you're character is male, female, straight, lesbian, bisexual, gay, asexual, gender-fluid, and non-binary, and you can chose who you wish to romance (with sexual and non-sexual relationships,whether lesbian, gay or straight) and it works out most times because its based on your choice and how you want to play your character as.

Anyway,I'm a huge fan of Suvi's romance,and just wanted to show my support for her being an asexual lesbian romance option.I don't think anyone wants to degay her,I don't, she's still a lesbian in my eyes (for me,she's a asexual lesbian, just as she could be a sexual lesbian for you), yes, they should have had the option for an optional sex scene, but people are just commenting because asexuals don't get much representation, and it's nice that asexual lesbians and other asexuals (and demisexuals) are getting some representation for a change, just like with Josie's romance in DAI. I'm not looking to start any trouble,and I'm dropping it after this I promise,but I just wanted to explain things from a lesbian asexual perspective. Maybe it would be best if we get an Asexual Romance Support thread on here going for asexuals, demisexual or people who just want to have non-sexual or asexual options in the game, and talk about non-sexual romances,and their hopes, and what they'd like to see in an asexual relationship?Just a suggestion.

I may have let out a not-exactly-manly-sounding noise when I read that. Can neither confirm nor deny it at this moment.

Funnily enough, with Liam romance, he hints at a "little Suvi" so... close family friend? I mean, it would boggle my mind otherwise, why name a kid after someone you're not friends with.


That is not a duel, that is an execution.


Infiltrator master race!


...clearly did contemplate infiltration career once upon a time...


Edit: Those English phonetics are really getting on my brain lately...

Lol, I just like to bone women. This thread has gone too many places.

Anything is possible.

Oh btw, I fixed my derp from my last run and got the Suvi intro I missed, yes, I did hit on her before you ask. Still climbing Vetra in this run tho.