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Post by ApocAlypsE on Feb 17, 2017 22:17:02 GMT
Did you watch the trailer even, Ryder used cover even with the Nomad. The use of cover was minimal and it wasn't for tactics. He blasted everything else while staying in the open, vulnerable to enemies. Yet the game rewarded him for that type of playstyle. I'm pretty sure that in Insanity you will stick to cover to prevent yourself from being blown up to bits. I guess the gameplay video displays it in normal. In ME2 (hardest in the trilogy) Normal I can also run and gun with certain characters.
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Post by derrame on Feb 17, 2017 22:17:21 GMT
can we take cover? like in me2 and 3? or this mechanic is no more?
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Post by kaind on Feb 17, 2017 22:19:25 GMT
Really? I felt exactly the opposite. I've never been more excited to jump back into my Adept-heavy style. (Of course, tech looks great, too!) I think it may be that certain powers have been functionally folded into the power evolutions. Also, did you see Pull? Look at how much more involved and powerful it is. If that's even partially true of other powers, biotics should be more varied and fun to use than they've ever been. I think it's probably too early to judge the current system as limited or lacking variety. Warp, Reave and the others are likely embedded in there, somewhere. Honestly biotics always get the short end of the stick, most of them just suck. Like if you play a tech expert you can face anything. Shields? Np, overload! Armor? Incinerate! Health? Cryo! And it doesn't just stop there powers combo with each other, so you can just spam them one after another for additional damage / effects, all of the powers do solid damage even without bonuses and CC targets. If you play a biotic character, anything with shields / armor cancels out the majority of your powers, because biotics have subpar damage on their own unless you perform a biotic combo and they are mostly CC, except for Nova which is a nuke that just destroys everything at the cost of barrier, with that +100% damage to all defensive layers upgrade. Also when enemies are left with only health it usually take a couple of shots to finish them, at that point powers are just overkill. The only viable biotic power combo imo is going to be Annihilation / Nova / Charge, because Nova damage + biotic explosion is going to be decent AoE clear. Yes you can do Singularity / Lance / Shockwave, but I think the damage will be subpar compared to alternatives. And Throw / Pull are just useless ''for fun'' powers, as Pull only primes on targets that have no defense layers unlike Annihilation and Singularity that prime on all layers, and Lance / Shockwave does more damage than Throw when it comes to detonations. Backlash seems interesting but fits more into a shooter loadout, not a ''caster'', you would probably combine it with Turbocharge on soldier profile.
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Post by areskeith on Feb 17, 2017 22:23:19 GMT
Even though Shepard was always treated like Space Jesus...... If Shepard is Space Jesus, Ryder seems like Space God in comparison. Not really
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 17, 2017 22:25:26 GMT
If Shepard is Space Jesus, Ryder seems like Space God in comparison. Not really Yes really. We see Ryder doing things Shepard could only dream of doing, despite them supposedly more experienced than Ryder who is supposed to be a novice.
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Post by bohemiadrinker on Feb 17, 2017 22:25:58 GMT
I need to experiment with it.... there's just so many potentiallyt game-breaking builds my mind is cooking up. (Like, Biotic Charge - Anihilation Field - Flamer ).
God, I love me some cheese.
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Post by deebo305 on Feb 17, 2017 22:26:53 GMT
can we take cover? like in me2 and 3? or this mechanic is no more? You no longer have to tap a button to enter cover if thats what you mean. Think of it like Tomb Raider or TLoU where you simply run up to cover and you character will automatically hide or duck behind it. Makes things move faster and feel more organic
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Post by pianishimo on Feb 17, 2017 22:27:03 GMT
can we take cover? like in me2 and 3? or this mechanic is no more? Of course, there are plenty examples on this trailer to show us that we can
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Post by bshep on Feb 17, 2017 22:28:14 GMT
Seems it didn't took long for the whining to start...
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 17, 2017 22:29:56 GMT
Yes really. We see Ryder doing things Shepard could only dream of doing, despite them supposedly more experienced than Ryder who is supposed to be a novice. The thighs Ryder can do are based by tech, like the jet pack and switching abilities. Not really comparable to Shepard being considered someone unique/special/godlike.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 17, 2017 22:31:45 GMT
Yes really. We see Ryder doing things Shepard could only dream of doing, despite them supposedly more experienced than Ryder who is supposed to be a novice. The thighs Ryder can do are based by tech, like the jet pack and switching abilities. Not really comparable to Shepard being considered someone unique/special/godlike. *looks at Ryder literally having Force powers* Even Jack, the strongest human biotic ever, couldn't do some of what Ryder can do biotically. And she had the best tech to support that and went through a childhood of terror to reach that point, whereas Ryder is just that good.
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Post by kaind on Feb 17, 2017 22:33:16 GMT
The thighs Ryder can do are based by tech, like the jet pack and switching abilities. Not really comparable to Shepard being considered someone unique/special/godlike. *looks at Ryder literally having Force powers* Even Jack, the strongest human biotic ever, couldn't do some of what Ryder can do biotically. Don't confuse lore with gameplay. Jack would rip the Tempest apart.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 17, 2017 22:35:36 GMT
The thighs Ryder can do are based by tech, like the jet pack and switching abilities. Not really comparable to Shepard being considered someone unique/special/godlike. *looks at Ryder literally having Force powers* Even Jack, the strongest human biotic ever, couldn't do some of what Ryder can do biotically. If you're referring to the Pull/Lift thing, that's the improvement of the gameplay. It has nothing to do with him being better then the previous biotics. Not to mention that Lift was able to hit enemies far, far away and manipulate them in ME, so Shepard's biotics were even more impressive. And in cutscene biotics were already shown to be able to pull and toss people. It's nothing new in terms of biotic abilities established in the lore, they just managed to reduce the gap between it and gameplay.
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Post by Cypher on Feb 17, 2017 22:35:43 GMT
Has anyone talked about the Roekaar Saboteur yet? The silhouette kind of looks like an Angaran, but it could be another alien we haven't seen unless Roekaar is a faction rather than a species.
edit: also, it looks like armor gets effected by the environment, since you can see dirt on Sara's body in the desert environment.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 17, 2017 22:37:08 GMT
*looks at Ryder literally having Force powers* Even Jack, the strongest human biotic ever, couldn't do some of what Ryder can do biotically. Don't confuse lore with gameplay. Jack would rip the Tempest apart. It just really bugs me. They talk about how much greener Ryder is than Shepard, yet the gameplay does the opposite of showing that.
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Post by kaind on Feb 17, 2017 22:39:18 GMT
Don't confuse lore with gameplay. Jack would rip the Tempest apart. It just really bugs me. They talk about how much greener Ryder is than Shepard, yet the gameplay does the opposite of showing that. I'm sure that when the game starts, Ryder will suck, and by the time you get all your amazing powers Ryder won't be green anymore.
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 17, 2017 22:43:22 GMT
Well if you look at Mass Effect 3 SP Adept you had a total of 6 active abilties, 2 passives, and 1 open slot for the loyalty power. Just based on what we've seen in this trailer we have 9 active abilities and 3 passives. Not sure on if there will be a loyalty power mechanic or not(having it would open up a lot more choices, though given the way the power system is set up I could see it not being there anymore). For all intents and purposes, Warp appears to have been replaced with Lance which states "Devastates a small area with a swiftly thrown shaft of energy. Inflicts bonus damage against enemy weak points (such as heads) and detonates combo primers". So it appears as though some skills will now also be able to headshot. I think Lance sound more like lift/cluster grenade than warp. Perhaps you can unlock more powers than the initial 12 as you progress. Thinking logically about it sticking to the adept profile would be pretty dull if that was your lot. The way it's worded it actually kind of sounds like Flare on a smaller scale. Though they did at one point note Sticky Grenades are now an "advanced version" of the Omni-Grenade, suggesting that some of the old ME3 abilities have been folded into being evolution upgrades. We also see "Snap Freeze" as one of the rank 6 evolutions of Cryo Beam, though it's not certain if it actually acts anything like ME3 MP Snap Freeze. From the looks of things the 12 is what we're getting, as we can see in the tech ability list one of them says "Unknown" suggesting that it's listing all of the abilities to us but hiding the names of the ones we haven't discovered/researched yet. Not sure on what exactly the different profile/classes do though beyond adding in some passive bonuses we see in the video. I suppose we'll find that out soon enough.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 17, 2017 22:44:16 GMT
Really? I felt exactly the opposite. I've never been more excited to jump back into my Adept-heavy style. (Of course, tech looks great, too!) I think it may be that certain powers have been functionally folded into the power evolutions. Also, did you see Pull? Look at how much more involved and powerful it is. If that's even partially true of other powers, biotics should be more varied and fun to use than they've ever been. I think it's probably too early to judge the current system as limited or lacking variety. Warp, Reave and the others are likely embedded in there, somewhere. Honestly biotics always get the short end of the stick, most of them just suck. Like if you play a tech expert you can face anything. Shields? Np, overload! Armor? Incinerate! Health? Cryo! And it doesn't just stop there powers combo with each other, so you can just spam them one after another for additional damage / effects, all of the powers do solid damage even without bonuses and CC targets. If you play a biotic character, anything with shields / armor cancels out the majority of your powers, because biotics have subpar damage on their own unless you perform a biotic combo and they are mostly CC, except for Nova which is a nuke that just destroys everything at the cost of barrier, with that +100% damage to all defensive layers upgrade. Also when enemies are left with only health it usually take a couple of shots to finish them, at that point powers are just overkill. The only viable biotic power combo imo is going to be Annihilation / Nova / Charge, because Nova damage + biotic explosion is going to be decent AoE clear. Yes you can do Singularity / Lance / Shockwave, but I think the damage will be subpar compared to alternatives. And Throw / Pull are just useless ''for fun'' powers, as Pull only primes on targets that have no defense layers unlike Annihilation and Singularity that prime on all layers, and Lance / Shockwave does more damage than Throw when it comes to detonations. Backlash seems interesting but fits more into a shooter loadout, not a ''caster'', you would probably combine it with Turbocharge on soldier profile. I'm not sure that we can assume that powers and detonations work in all the same ways they used to work. Pull + Throw looked significantly more powerful than it has ever looked before in this trailer, for instance, and I couldn't tell how much of that was the detonation. It's just more effective, I think, with more control. Cooldowns are much longer, by default, with reductions coming from equipment, profiles and who knows what else. I agree that tech users have had an edge, of late, but the old logic may no longer apply. I think we need a lot more data.
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Post by bshep on Feb 17, 2017 22:45:05 GMT
*looks at Ryder literally having Force powers* Even Jack, the strongest human biotic ever, couldn't do some of what Ryder can do biotically. If you're referring to the Pull/Lift thing, that's the improvement of the gameplay. It has nothing to do with him being better then the previous biotics. Not to mention that Lift was able to hit enemies far, far away and manipulate them in ME, so Shepard's biotics were even more impressive. And in cutscene biotics were already shown to be able to pull and toss people. It's nothing new in terms of biotic abilities established in the lore, they just managed to reduce the gap between it and gameplay. Don't bother. Hanako just wants a excuse to complain again, be it either a gameplay mechanic for something that everyone knows that biotics can do (like Javik, Liara, Jack etcetera) or even a small typo in the description...
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Post by sageoflife on Feb 17, 2017 22:45:26 GMT
There is precedent for old abilities being folded into others. Neural Shock was its own power in the first two games only to be turned into an upgrade for Overload in the third, while the first game's Sabotage was fused with Overload in the second game and AI Hacking in the third.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 17, 2017 22:45:40 GMT
Don't confuse lore with gameplay. Jack would rip the Tempest apart. It just really bugs me. They talk about how much greener Ryder is than Shepard, yet the gameplay does the opposite of showing that. Other then the progression in the builds will reflect a progression in the story, what should they do? Don't improve on their biotic and tech system?
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Post by guanxi on Feb 17, 2017 22:46:52 GMT
Really? I felt exactly the opposite. I've never been more excited to jump back into my Adept-heavy style. (Of course, tech looks great, too!) I think it may be that certain powers have been functionally folded into the power evolutions. Also, did you see Pull? Look at how much more involved and powerful it is. If that's even partially true of other powers, biotics should be more varied and fun to use than they've ever been. I think it's probably too early to judge the current system as limited or lacking variety. Warp, Reave and the others are likely embedded in there, somewhere. Honestly biotics always get the short end of the stick, most of them just suck. Like if you play a tech expert you can face anything. Shields? Np, overload! Armor? Incinerate! Health? Cryo! And it doesn't just stop there powers combo with each other, so you can just spam them one after another for additional damage / effects, all of the powers do solid damage even without bonuses and CC targets. If you play a biotic character, anything with shields / armor cancels out the majority of your powers, because biotics have subpar damage on their own unless you perform a biotic combo and they are mostly CC, except for Nova which is a nuke that just destroys everything at the cost of barrier, with that +100% damage to all defensive layers upgrade. Also when enemies are left with only health it usually take a couple of shots to finish them, at that point powers are just overkill. The only viable biotic power combo imo is going to be Annihilation / Nova / Charge, because Nova damage + biotic explosion is going to be decent AoE clear. Yes you can do Singularity / Lance / Shockwave, but I think the damage will be subpar compared to alternatives. And Throw / Pull are just useless ''for fun'' powers, as Pull only primes on targets that have no defense layers unlike Annihilation and Singularity that prime on all layers, and Lance / Shockwave does more damage than Throw when it comes to detonations. Backlash seems interesting but fits more into a shooter loadout, not a ''caster'', you would probably combine it with Turbocharge on soldier profile. In ME3 biotics were godly. The Acolyte was basically cheat mode, it made enemy shields next to useless and biotics fun again. If you have an acolyte you can basically use biotics immediately all the time on all but two enemies temporarily (Banshee & Phantom invincibility frames aside) and long may this continue. Lash and Stasis makes swift work of Phantom bubble. Even on platinum with an Acolyte X + Heavy barrel V you could basically drop a Banshee barrier / Atlas / Prime shield in about 2.5 hits. Warp + Warp Ammo made biotic characters more effective weapons build options than most soldiers imo.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 17, 2017 22:48:04 GMT
It just really bugs me. They talk about how much greener Ryder is than Shepard, yet the gameplay does the opposite of showing that. Other then the progression in the builds will reflect a progression in the story, what should they do? Don't improve on their biotic and tech system? Make the powers weaker or take more energy and/or make all the enemies stronger. To use an example, Halo 3: ODST made the game so that the protagonist still seemed good but was not at a Spartan level. I really liked that and was hoping that it would be something similar when they talked about Ryder being more of a novice compared to Shepard.
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Post by bshep on Feb 17, 2017 22:48:55 GMT
Has anyone talked about the Roekaar Saboteur yet? The silhouette kind of looks like an Angaran, but it could be another alien we haven't seen unless Roekaar is a faction rather than a species. edit: also, it looks like armor gets effected by the environment, since you can see dirt on Sara's body in the desert environment. Don't remember this. I am away from my pc now, which part of the video this happens?
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Post by kaind on Feb 17, 2017 22:49:45 GMT
I agree that tech users have had an edge, of late, but the old logic may no longer apply. I think we need a lot more data. My point was that targets that only have health layer are very weak. At that point you can just pull them or just throw them or shoot a few bullets they will die very fast, but pull cannot prime shielded / armored targets and throw is a weaker detonator. You can CC enemies with any biotic ability, you can even spec charge to knock down multiple enemies that only have health.
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