The Elder King
N6
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 19, 2017 17:38:48 GMT
But even if you don't restrict yourself to that, you have to include all the female characters in the comparison, and not those that supports your hypothesis. So if I don't restrict myself to Femshep, it's not a fair comparison. And if I don't include EVERY female character ever rendered / depicted by BioWare in my comparison, it's not fair either. The first is fair because you compare the main character to the main character. I don't personally compare them with characters for different reason, including the fact the first are customizable, but it you want to do it, you should at least compare both the good cases and the bad cases. But I did wrote it wrong, because I meant the major characters, not every character. That was my mistake.
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The Elder King
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 19, 2017 17:40:38 GMT
I think criticism is fair in both face and body. I don't agree with all type of criticism, but I don't see the problem. I don't care much of what Bioware do in terms of faces for the main characters because they're customizable. I'm more concerned by the level of facial animations.
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unofficialgreycolor
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 19, 2017 17:43:50 GMT
... back in the days before the release of KoTOR II, the forums were debating whether a newly announced character was 'hot enough'. Her name was Mira. This is how Mira looked: as you can see, Mira is made of 4 triangles and a couple of squares. The current debate exists only because people have nothing else to talk about, and so they give free rein to whatever prejudices they have about BioWare's animations, or the representation of women in popular media, etc. etc. etc. Once the game comes out, this 'debate' will evaporate in an instant. I am amazed by your resourcefulness. Couple of times now.
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Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Feb 19, 2017 17:44:51 GMT
Are people using comum sense at all? Jayde Rossi is a fucking model, of course she is going to look great in any photos because of makeup and lighting, why dont you compare her to Sara when she gets out of bed? Also she probably has Italian ancestry, so she was suppose to be latina. I really hope they did not change the structure of the face because of loud mouth people.
You know what I am offended that I cannot have a athletic Sara, why doesnt anyone talk about that? why is realistic to have only super skinny people working in the military?
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Post by rivverrabbit on Feb 19, 2017 17:48:47 GMT
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 19, 2017 17:57:36 GMT
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 19, 2017 18:14:32 GMT
Are people using comum sense at all? Jayde Rossi is a fucking model, of course she is going to look great in any photos because of makeup and lighting, why dont you compare her to Sara when she gets out of bed? Also she probably has Italian ancestry, so she was suppose to be latina. I really hope they did not change the structure of the face because of loud mouth people. You know what I am offended that I cannot have a athletic Sara, why doesnt anyone talk about that? why is realistic to have only super skinny people working in the military? I thought they made Sara look reasonably athletic, this time. She's definitely more gymnast than sexy pin-up, from what I've seen (which isn't a lot, admittedly). I was one arguing for more athletically built woman, this time, and she isn't quite what I had in mind. Still, I think her build is kind of cool. Jayde doesn't post photos of herself just awakening, that I can tell, to be fair. In fact, you have to dig just to find her in full clothing. She's always air-brushed/edited, and wearing a ton of make-up. It's not really like the forum members are trying hard to be unfair. That's what Jayde has "put out there". She's an internet model, after all. (Edit: I'm not sure what this has to do with Sara's crappy animations, but I thought I'd address it.) I would be really impressed if they did change Sara. They've screwed up the facial scan, as they did with Miranda and Allers. As a result, it looks creepy, at times. If they can fix it so that her face looks lifelike all of the time, instead of turning into a muzzle when she emotes, why shouldn't they do so? This is an animation issue, not a social issue.
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llandwynwyn
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Post by llandwynwyn on Feb 19, 2017 18:14:43 GMT
People need to stop comparing Sara to photoshopped images of Jayde. They look the same:
It's just the animations and the perpetual smiles that make her weird in game.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 18:17:35 GMT
You know what I am offended that I cannot have a athletic Sara, why doesnt anyone talk about that? why is realistic to have only super skinny people working in the military? Because nobody like beefed-up women
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 19, 2017 18:21:19 GMT
Are people using comum sense at all? Jayde Rossi is a fucking model, of course she is going to look great in any photos because of makeup and lighting, why dont you compare her to Sara when she gets out of bed? Also she probably has Italian ancestry, so she was suppose to be latina. I really hope they did not change the structure of the face because of loud mouth people. You know what I am offended that I cannot have a athletic Sara, why doesnt anyone talk about that? why is realistic to have only super skinny people working in the military? I don't think she looks skinny. Or at least super skinny/Femshep level.
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Post by Saboru on Feb 19, 2017 18:21:53 GMT
You know what I am offended that I cannot have a athletic Sara, why doesnt anyone talk about that? why is realistic to have only super skinny people working in the military? Because nobody like beefed-up women I'm not entirely convinced that's a core component of most military's person specs.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 19, 2017 18:37:23 GMT
It's like people have never seen what a woman looks like sans makeup, professional lighting and photography before.
I get the fact that some of the animations are off but my God people get a grip.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Feb 19, 2017 18:38:47 GMT
People need to stop comparing Sara to photoshopped images of Jayde. They look the same: It's just the animations and the perpetual smiles that make her weird in game. Agree, they really look very similar: nose, cheeks, chin. Anyone not blind can see that. She just need to stop clenching her teeth when smiling.
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Post by Nashimura on Feb 19, 2017 18:41:11 GMT
Yeah, i'm stereotyping, like you are assuming someone who wants Sera to be prettier are also racist... Where is that connection? If you find people of a certain race more sexually attractive than others that makes you racist? No, but changing someone to a different race is certainly in that icky area, whether it's a fictional character or not.... or like a mod that makes Dorian straight, not good.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 19, 2017 18:50:07 GMT
People need to stop comparing Sara to photoshopped images of Jayde. They look the same: It's just the animations and the perpetual smiles that make her weird in game. Agree, they really look very similar: nose, cheeks, chin. Anyone not blind can see that. She just need to stop clenching her teeth when smiling. As well as smirking, grimacing, or moving her mouth in general, based upon what we've seen. She'd have made a lovely protagonist in DA:O. I think I'm about finished, in this thread. The "defensive" attacks seem to have abated, and the tone has shifted to neutral. We are definitely spinning our wheels, here. I doubt BioWare can rebuild Sara's mandibles in the next two weeks, so she is what she is. I also doubt her animation issues will affect my CC creations, so I'm perfectly content with that.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 19, 2017 18:53:28 GMT
If you find people of a certain race more sexually attractive than others that makes you racist? No, but changing someone to a different race is certainly in that icky area, whether it's a fictional character or not.... or like a mod that makes Dorian straight, not good. I'd be curious as to how people would reconcile Dorian's story if they modded him to be straight. I guess they wouldn't do this personal quest? I don't even know how this would really work.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 19, 2017 19:01:31 GMT
Looks fine to me: I just saw this. I wanted you to know that you can thank all of the complainers for this excellent pic. This is the edited character kit. It was fixed because of the complaints about Sara's face in the original. (Scott also got an upgrade.) BioWare took the criticism to heart, explained why the original sucked (their lack of familiarity with the tech), and made improvements.
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kaind
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Post by kaind on Feb 19, 2017 19:04:58 GMT
If you find people of a certain race more sexually attractive than others that makes you racist? No, but changing someone to a different race is certainly in that icky area, whether it's a fictional character or not.... or like a mod that makes Dorian straight, not good. Mods are specifically to improve individual game experience, there is absolutely nothing bad about someone altering their game to enjoy it more, whatever that might be.
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Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Feb 19, 2017 19:11:01 GMT
You know what I am offended that I cannot have a athletic Sara, why doesnt anyone talk about that? why is realistic to have only super skinny people working in the military? Because nobody like beefed-up women Ya because they look like men, right? so no ones likes men and they are overall ugly? I am arguing it right? And no, Sara is not athletic at all when compare to Scott, it is clear they do no have the same physical regiment. For once I would at least like the female and male version to be in the same page.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 19, 2017 19:11:02 GMT
Thank god BioWare has their fans to be backseat game-designers, and they actually make their games better whenever BioWare can't tell they've effed up. The new character kit is an excellent change. I think they fixed the body proportions as well. I'll give BioWare credit for this though:
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kaind
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by kaind on Feb 19, 2017 19:11:46 GMT
Mods are specifically to improve individual game experience, there is absolutely nothing bad about someone altering their game to enjoy it more, whatever that might be. Indeed. Wasn't there a bi-Cassandra mod as well? Yes there was.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 19:15:41 GMT
Because nobody like beefed-up women Ya because they look like men, right? so no ones likes men and they are overall ugly? I am arguing it right? And no, Sara is not athletic at all when compare to Scott, it is clear they do no have the same physical regiment. For once I would at least like the female and male version to be in the same page. No matter how hard you try man and women do not have the same physical regiment. Damn you mother nature for being sexist.
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kaind
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by kaind on Feb 19, 2017 19:17:31 GMT
Because nobody like beefed-up women Ya because they look like men, right? so no ones likes men and they are overall ugly? I am arguing it right? And no, Sara is not athletic at all when compare to Scott, it is clear they do no have the same physical regiment. For once I would at least like the female and male version to be in the same page. First of all, BS PLENTY people including myself consider athletic women to be more attractive than average/skinny girls. Second, I am in the same boat as you but from both sides, when I create my characters I want my female characters to be more buff, but I also find that male characters tend to be overbuffed.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 19, 2017 19:18:34 GMT
Gender roles and clothing norms is totally a social construct, but I also draw the line when crazy feminists go into the vein of "gender isn't a biological difference". Like, just stop. You're deluded and insane, come back to earth alright?
Now that I'm done ranting, let me state that I did not intend to make it a strawman. I know poster above isn't going that far. And I agree, bulky or really strong women can be more attractive in their own way than the sleek, photomodel skinny girl look. It would've raised eyebrows if FemRyder had the same overall size as her brother and big biceps but it wouldn't have been wrong as long as she wouldn't have looked like a monkey.
(PS. I admit I'm kinda skimming posts today so sorry if I'm mistaking what people are talking about)
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Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MihuraL
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Post by Mihura on Feb 19, 2017 19:19:37 GMT
Ya because they look like men, right? so no ones likes men and they are overall ugly? I am arguing it right? And no, Sara is not athletic at all when compare to Scott, it is clear they do no have the same physical regiment. For once I would at least like the female and male version to be in the same page. No matter how hard you try man and women do not have the same physical regiment. Damn you mother nature for being sexist. Eh? anyone can do sports unless you live in some strange country!
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