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Post by Fredward on Feb 19, 2017 16:38:27 GMT
Apparently there is no combat pause, this makes me sad as I can see literally zero reason for it to be dropped and it presents a hurdle wrt accessibility for people like moi with shitty reflexes and response time, not even mentioning people who just like to pause to assess the battlefield.
What do you think the reasons for dropping it is? It can't be engine limitations as it was present in DAI and that was also in Frostbite. The only thing I can think of is if there's some kind of seamless multiplayer shenanigans and if that's the case SOMETHING IS ROTTEN IN EDMONTON. I want nothing to do with multiplayer and if it's the cause of the long lost pause I am going to be in quite the tizzy.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 19, 2017 16:46:35 GMT
I think the main reason is likely to streamline it with multiplayer.Like you I'm not interested in MP but I can certainlyunderstand their thinking behind it though. Generally speaking in my case although I don't like it I think I can adapt but then I'm on PC which does give me a little room to maneuver when compensating for such things. Are you on PC or console? Because if your on console I can see the reason's why you might be stuck but on PC I've already come up with a plan that'll likely allow me to compensate for it.
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Post by Fredward on Feb 19, 2017 17:02:57 GMT
I think the main reason is likely to streamline it with multiplayer.Like you I'm not interested in MP but I can certainlyunderstand their thinking behind it though. Generally speaking in my case although I don't like it I think I can adapt but then I'm on PC which does give me a little room to maneuver when compensating for such things. Are you on PC or console? Because if your on console I can see the reason's why you might be stuck but on PC I've already come up with a plan that'll likely allow me to compensate for it. I'm on pc, what are you gonna use to compensate if I may ask?
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Post by amoebae on Feb 19, 2017 17:14:46 GMT
I'm super grumpy about it, but I acknowledge they haven't yet shown us what they're replacing it with so I'm not getting entirely pitchforks at dawn about it yet.
The 'pause to command squad' function has been what I'd consider the iconic symbol of BioWare combat for the last decade, and as the OP rightly points out is something that has enabled BW games to remain accessible to people of different skill and physical abilities. For example, BW games have remained accessible to certain physically disabled people precisely because of the ability to take combat at a slow pace, without needing to have lightning reflexes to push the right button at the right time. Now, if the ME series had never had that mechanic, this wouldn't be a problem, because no one would expect it, just as they don't in myriad other games. But it has been the defining feature of ME combat since the beginning, so to remove it now (and to not widely publicise that it has been removed) will surprise quite a lot of people, and most assuredly anger a few who relied on it.
Just because something works in multiplayer doesn't mean it's the right thing for singleplayer. Many people have demonstrated their ability to switch between the two modes with no problem, so I don't understand the argument about unifying them so they are the same experience. In fact, there are plenty of people who have absolutely no interest in MP and never will do, and want the SP experience to be conducted at their own pace. What's so confusing is that in previous games pausing was entirely optional anyway, and I've heard from plenty of people who never once used it. The presence of the pause option didn't impinge on their ability to not pause. But of course, removing the pause feature impinges on the ability of people who rely on it to be able to use it, since, you know, it doesn't exist anymore.
And what of squad mates? By the time the next game comes out, will we even have them? Will they just be random tag-alongs, hired guns who make the occasional amusing quip? Because the point of having squad mates in combat is that you can utilise them as an extension to your power set, ordering them to set a primer that you detonate a second later. I can see how we can easily command squad mates to 'attack my target' or 'move to point' without a pause function, but how can we reliably fire off all their abilities and our own during live action with only limited gamepad keys? Does it mean we won't be able to directly order them to use overload against target X at the time of our choosing so we can charge into them a moment later? Does it mean we'll have to set up tactics a la Dragon Age and simply hope they get it right and magically know that the shielded enemy who just popped up from around the corner is the one I want to charge and therefore need them to strip the shields of right this second? Because that's a recipe for frustration.
Are we eventually going to be setting up all our own combos? Are we going to be a lone soldier, rather than the commander of a squad? If so, the series will have lost something that defined its combat and set it apart from every other action shooter out there. And I think that will be a huge shame.
But as I said, they haven't yet shown us what they're putting in the place of 'pause and command your squad' - maybe it'll be amazing and invite an even greater level of squad control than ever before...
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Post by amoebae on Feb 19, 2017 17:24:25 GMT
Interestingly, I pause constantly, for almost every single attack, in Mass Effect, but in Dragon Age I pause less frequently. I put less stock in setting up combos in DA than I do in ME, and feel more comfortable using hotkeys to activate my abilities - although I do still pause to set up strategic commands on occasion or if it's a particularly difficult fight. I'm replaying ME3 at the moment as a vanguard, and even though the majority of my skill use is charge and nova, I pause all the time because I use my squad mates religiously, to strip shields, for cc, for specific jobs on bosses, etc.
I could quite easily solo this content, because I have the arc pistol for shields, I have reave as my bonus power to help out with some enemies as well, but if the idea behind this change is that we should all be able to set up our own combos, what really is the point of having squad mates who are controllable at all?
I worry that at some point down the line we simply won't anymore.
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Post by JayKay on Feb 19, 2017 17:29:54 GMT
It is going to take some getting used to. I am doing some more Hugh octane shooter games to try to help train myself to better get passed the learning curve, though.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 19, 2017 17:42:31 GMT
It is going to take some getting used to. I am doing some more Hugh octane shooter games to try to help train myself to better get passed the learning curve, though. Just play ME3 Multiplayer. It will be very similar to that, I think. I used to use the pause wheel all the time when I first started, but after putting 600 hours into ME3MP, I found that in my other play-throughs, even of ME1 and ME2, that I didn't use the power wheel nearly as much, if at all.
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Post by derrame on Feb 19, 2017 17:47:20 GMT
ME3 works perfect with pause in SP and no pause in MP, it could be the same for MEA, we will have to think and react faster in this game then
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 19, 2017 17:48:09 GMT
I think the main reason is likely to streamline it with multiplayer.Like you I'm not interested in MP but I can certainlyunderstand their thinking behind it though. Generally speaking in my case although I don't like it I think I can adapt but then I'm on PC which does give me a little room to maneuver when compensating for such things. Are you on PC or console? Because if your on console I can see the reason's why you might be stuck but on PC I've already come up with a plan that'll likely allow me to compensate for it. I'm on pc, what are you gonna use to compensate if I may ask? Keybind all the things! This will depend on how much control given over our squad mates, but you could potentially bind their powers. If you have an MMO mouse that should make use of them side buttons. If nothing else, i have g-keys on my keyboard i haven't yet programmed anything for
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Post by mjalpha on Feb 19, 2017 17:51:27 GMT
Apparently there is no combat pause, this makes me sad as I can see literally zero reason for it to be dropped and it presents a hurdle wrt accessibility for people like moi with shitty reflexes and response time, not even mentioning people who just like to pause to assess the battlefield. What do you think the reasons for dropping it is? It can't be engine limitations as it was present in DAI and that was also in Frostbite. The only thing I can think of is if there's some kind of seamless multiplayer shenanigans and if that's the case SOMETHING IS ROTTEN IN EDMONTON. I want nothing to do with multiplayer and if it's the cause of the long lost pause I am going to be in quite the tizzy. Is this a definite thing/has BioWare stated it? If it is there is no reasonable explanation for it because all the previous titles had it, but, and this is the key distinction here, it was completely optional. As a few others have already stated in this thread Mass Effect's gameplay flexibility has always been one if it's greatest selling points. It would be absolutely ridiculous for them not to have it and will guarantee nothing but less sales. Longtime fans that needed/utilized this mechanic will be turned off by its absence and new gamers (including the impaired) just coming into the series might not stick around long because they can't manage the mechanics (regardless of difficulty).
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 19, 2017 18:03:04 GMT
I think the main reason is likely to streamline it with multiplayer.Like you I'm not interested in MP but I can certainlyunderstand their thinking behind it though. Generally speaking in my case although I don't like it I think I can adapt but then I'm on PC which does give me a little room to maneuver when compensating for such things. Are you on PC or console? Because if your on console I can see the reason's why you might be stuck but on PC I've already come up with a plan that'll likely allow me to compensate for it. I'm on pc, what are you gonna use to compensate if I may ask? Well because I use 1 hand I'm just going to configure all the buttons into 1 area of the keyboard. Because there is less active powers as you only have 3 active at any one time it should be easier to do. My plan is use the arrow keys for movement as I normally do have the Delete,End and Page down buttons as the 3 active power buttons and use the number pad on the right Numpad 2,4 ,6 and8 to switch between the active powers I have in the favourites section also switch the power system to toggle rather than Hold so then well so I can just toggle things on and off as I need them. Because according t othe devs there's a toggle or hold option for powers. Admittedly I still have to do things on the fly but it should help allow me to do things faster. I don't know for sure that it will work but it's an idea I'm thinking of running with that'll help.
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Post by illusivecake on Feb 19, 2017 18:04:50 GMT
And what of squad mates? By the time the next game comes out, will we even have them? Will they just be random tag-alongs, hired guns who make the occasional amusing quip? Because the point of having squad mates in combat is that you can utilise them as an extension to your power set, ordering them to set a primer that you detonate a second later. I can see how we can easily command squad mates to 'attack my target' or 'move to point' without a pause function, but how can we reliably fire off all their abilities and our own during live action with only limited gamepad keys? Does it mean we won't be able to directly order them to use overload against target X at the time of our choosing so we can charge into them a moment later? Does it mean we'll have to set up tactics a la Dragon Age and simply hope they get it right and magically know that the shielded enemy who just popped up from around the corner is the one I want to charge and therefore need them to strip the shields of right this second? Because that's a recipe for frustration. Are we eventually going to be setting up all our own combos? Are we going to be a lone soldier, rather than the commander of a squad? If so, the series will have lost something that defined its combat and set it apart from every other action shooter out there. And I think that will be a huge shame. But as I said, they haven't yet shown us what they're putting in the place of 'pause and command your squad' - maybe it'll be amazing and invite an even greater level of squad control than ever before... This is my concern also. Heck, I'll be honest, I sometimes had to use the pause function just to move my squad into position.. though I used to command my squad a lot more in ME2 than I did in ME3. This just cements my usual practice of starting on casual until I learn the new game controls/mechanics.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 19, 2017 18:07:02 GMT
I wish they could at least include pause as an optional feature. It doesn't make sense to me to pull a Sims 4 and take away features that were already there.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 19, 2017 18:07:34 GMT
And what of squad mates? By the time the next game comes out, will we even have them? Will they just be random tag-alongs, hired guns who make the occasional amusing quip? Because the point of having squad mates in combat is that you can utilise them as an extension to your power set, ordering them to set a primer that you detonate a second later. I can see how we can easily command squad mates to 'attack my target' or 'move to point' without a pause function, but how can we reliably fire off all their abilities and our own during live action with only limited gamepad keys? Does it mean we won't be able to directly order them to use overload against target X at the time of our choosing so we can charge into them a moment later? Does it mean we'll have to set up tactics a la Dragon Age and simply hope they get it right and magically know that the shielded enemy who just popped up from around the corner is the one I want to charge and therefore need them to strip the shields of right this second? Because that's a recipe for frustration. Are we eventually going to be setting up all our own combos? Are we going to be a lone soldier, rather than the commander of a squad? If so, the series will have lost something that defined its combat and set it apart from every other action shooter out there. And I think that will be a huge shame. But as I said, they haven't yet shown us what they're putting in the place of 'pause and command your squad' - maybe it'll be amazing and invite an even greater level of squad control than ever before... This is my concern also. Heck, I'll be honest, I sometimes had to use the pause function just to move my squad into position.. though I used to command my squad a lot more in ME2 than I did in ME3. This just cements my usual practice of starting on casual until I learn the new game controls/mechanics. yeah thankfully I play on casual anyway so it's not too bad for me.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Feb 19, 2017 18:17:12 GMT
Because how else do you draw in the shooter crowd if not by, you guessed it, cutting off the the active rpg oriented game play mechanics in your shooter/rpg hybrid? And since, of course, MP has to be a thing...and at that a thing that needs to feel in and attract the crowd that does not give a fuck about anything that is not a paintball simulation you also have to make the so more like the MP so people do not get confused by it all.
God forbid you make it too complex and tactical, might lose you sales.
On the upside, this choice must mean that the combat mechanics are now as butter smooth and polished that we are now approaching GoW4 levels right?...RIGHT?!?!?
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Post by amoebae on Feb 19, 2017 18:17:33 GMT
It is going to take some getting used to. I am doing some more Hugh octane shooter games to try to help train myself to better get passed the learning curve, though. Just play ME3 Multiplayer. It will be very similar to that, I think. I used to use the pause wheel all the time when I first started, but after putting 600 hours into ME3MP, I found that in my other play-throughs, even of ME1 and ME2, that I didn't use the power wheel nearly as much, if at all. The difference between MP and SP, though, is that in MP there are other human players strategising alongside you. You can choose to be in contact with them via voice chat, and you can work together tactically to ensure victory. Or you can just plug away relying on your own powers, which is, I expect, how the majority of people play it. In SP, the combat has been set up so that your squad are an extension of you. Sure, you can just go about it as though you're a lone player, and ignore that you have squad mates altogether, and succeed perfectly well, and that's a valid way to play, but that's not why this squad combat system was designed in the first place - it was so that players could command their squad to synergise skills in combat and to bring a level of strategy to what would otherwise be just another shooter. If you want to play it as just another shooter where you only have to rely on your own skills, that's fair enough, but there are lots of people who've never approached the ME games in that way, and consider the squad system the defining symbol of Mass Effect combat. So sure, you can already play singleplayer just like you play multiplayer - but then, what's the point of having squad mates at all?
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Post by Shinobu on Feb 19, 2017 18:18:37 GMT
Well, they have said that there is the option to pause (in order to switch weapons and probably to switch profiles) but we won't be able to target or order our squadmates.
I agree that this is a loss and don't understand the thinking behind this design decision. Wouldn't they want the game to be as accessible to as many people as possible? Perhaps they will try to compensate by having the levels be clearable by the squadmates alone on the lowest difficulty setting (narrative). I hope the squadmate AI will be up to the task as we seem to have several CQC squadmates (Cora using Biotic charge, for example).
I used pause extremely often in SP and ME3MP was quite intimidating at first, but I eventually got used to it, so don't give up on the game just because of this. Try ME3MP with friends (so you only have to worry about getting used to the gameplay and not about the expectations of strangers). I'm happy to introduce people to MP if anybody wants to try it. It would be a shame for people to pass on this game just because combat sounds too frenetic.
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 19, 2017 18:22:58 GMT
From what I have seen the aiming assist is very generous, but it could just be me seeing things that are not there. I think that would be the way I would make up for it if I was BW though.
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Post by amoebae on Feb 19, 2017 18:23:14 GMT
I'm on pc, what are you gonna use to compensate if I may ask? Keybind all the things! This will depend on how much control given over our squad mates, but you could potentially bind their powers. If you have an MMO that should make use of them side buttons. If nothing else, i have g-keys on my keyboard i haven't yet programmed anything for I've been thinking about this. I have a G600 mouse, and in DAI I use the side buttons to fire off my attacks. I don't use it to fire off my team mates' attacks though. I worry it'll be to confusing. In that, when you're binding say 10 of your own attacks, you know when you can use them because they're your attacks, and you know when you're in cooldown, when an attack is free, etc. If you're binding all your squad mates' attacks as well, to use in real time, you have to be aware of when your own skills are on cooldown and can and can't be used, as well as when your squad mates' are, and whether they're positioned correctly, whether they're under fire themselves and can afford to be focusing on your chosen target or need to look after themselves, and so on. It all becomes quite the task to keep track of in real time, which is why play styles in ME so far have often been a) pause a fair bit and control your entire squad, keeping track of both them and you, and working together; or let your squad mates do their own thing and only worry about your own attacks. Both are entirely valid play styles. But the point was we had a choice between them. Remove pause and you end up with everyone being forced to adopt style b. To which end, I repeat, what's the point of having squad mates at all? Perhaps in the second Andromeda game they won't be there anymore.
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Post by SKAR on Feb 19, 2017 18:28:12 GMT
where you are sad, I'm happy. good riddance pause. This is more fluid, something we need more of. It's like water.
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Post by jjdxb on Feb 19, 2017 18:29:53 GMT
I wish they could at least include pause as an optional feature. It doesn't make sense to me to pull a Sims 4 and take away features that were already there. It's only like the Sims if they later try to sell it back to you. Not including features that were in previous titles, is hardly unusual in games, look at ME:1 to ME:2 for instance.
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Post by Psychedelic on Feb 19, 2017 18:34:16 GMT
I am glad to see I am not the only one who would miss a tactical pause option. Bioware seems to go for a very fast paced combat, and while many players love this kind of gameplay, I find it very frustrating. Sure, you can lower the difficulty, but that feels like admitting you are too stupid/slow to play the game properly. Different people play ME for very different reasons, and combat has never been my personal priority, so I can live with it, but I don't like the general direction they are pushing the ME-franchise, from RPG (sort of) to action game with flashy combat, but little else.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 19, 2017 18:35:14 GMT
From what I have seen the aiming assist is very generous, but it could just be me seeing things that are not there. I think that would be the way I would make up for it if I was BW though. I think they already have
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Post by amoebae on Feb 19, 2017 18:35:51 GMT
Well, they have said that there is the option to pause (in order to switch weapons and probably to switch profiles) but we won't be able to target or order our squadmates. I agree that this is a loss and don't understand the thinking behind this design decision. Wouldn't they want the game to be as accessible to as many people as possible? Perhaps they will try to compensate by having the levels be clearable by the squadmates alone on the lowest difficulty setting (narrative). I hope the squadmate AI will be up to the task as we seem to have several CQC squadmates (Cora using Biotic charge, for example). I used pause extremely often in SP and ME3MP was quite intimidating at first, but I eventually got used to it, so don't give up on the game just because of this. Try ME3MP with friends (so you only have to worry about getting used to the gameplay and not about the expectations of strangers). I'm happy to introduce people to MP if anybody wants to try it. It would be a shame for people to pass on this game just because combat sounds too frenetic. I've played MP, I've even solo'd a bit. For me, it's not only about accessibility (although that can't be ignored considering the broad range of players BW has attracted in the past), nor about being able to get the hang of playing without pausing. It's about the idea of strategy and the reason for squad mates being used in combat alongside you to begin with. If you take away the ability to strategically use squad mates and their skills in combination with and to synergise with your own, it becomes a game where you focus only on your own skills set in combat and nothing else. Some people do that already, and ignore their squad mates, let them do their own thing, and that's fine. But up to this point ME was never designed to solely be that experience. Remove in-battle squad strategy and that becomes the only option. And in the next game, perhaps we won't have any control over our squad at all, they won't show up on our hud, and will just be there to shoot alongside us and give a few words of wisdom during cut scenes. You know, in a way it's a decision that has been timed incredibly well. It reflects perfectly our cultural and political times - the move towards people reflecting inwards on the individual, at the expense of cooperation.
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amoebae
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Post by amoebae on Feb 19, 2017 18:39:03 GMT
where you are sad, I'm happy. good riddance pause. This is more fluid, something we need more of. It's like water. You already don't have to use pause. Pause being an option doesn't in any way stop you from not using it. You can have as fluid an experience as you desire. Removing pause means those who did use it no longer can. Pause is win-win. Use it, don't use it - everyone profits. Removing pause is win-lose. Don't use it, don't use it - only some people profit. You personally profit either way.
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