Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Feb 21, 2017 20:45:28 GMT
I wonder how they're going to market it off. Amazing new A.I. technology? A focus on you the character made them decide that worrying about your squad was counterintuitive and took away from the experience? Commanding your squad was a very Shepherd thing to do, and we need to move away from that mindset Commanding a squad was too video-gamey  |
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 21, 2017 20:46:32 GMT
I don't want to make this sound like a call to action, but amazon got pitchforks for 8 dollas  |
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Post by colfoley on Feb 21, 2017 20:47:06 GMT
Unless they have other stuff they can do, which I don't expect. Otherwise it's cool enough that we've at least got our character boosted with all these crazy moves and if anything you'll probably still get the sense of teamwork from Cora making biotic detonations on your abilities. Ian just said they'll talk a bit about squad-management in the video coming out... this thursday(?) I think. If the AI for MEA is anything like the AI in DAI, any teamwork will be largely coincidental. i disagree. Strongly. Sure the AI had a unfortunate tendancy of charging into dragon fire. But DAI was probably the second bioware game where it felt like you had to bring your team with you and they actually contributed to your survival and success of the overall team. So much so where it felt like i was in a team of bad asses like the avengers rather then just Captain Marvel and her chums. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 21, 2017 20:48:02 GMT
I don't want to make this sound like a call to action, but amazon got pitchforks for 8 dollas Do they come in Red, Green and Blue? |
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 21, 2017 20:49:36 GMT
I don't want to make this sound like a call to action, but amazon got pitchforks for 8 dollas Do they come in Red, Green and Blue?  |
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Post by MarilynRobert on Feb 21, 2017 20:54:58 GMT
Unless they have other stuff they can do, which I don't expect. Otherwise it's cool enough that we've at least got our character boosted with all these crazy moves and if anything you'll probably still get the sense of teamwork from Cora making biotic detonations on your abilities. Ian just said they'll talk a bit about squad-management in the video coming out... this thursday(?) I think. Reminds of my entire team taking off after a fennec while my Inq fights off 3 bears, all by himself.  |
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Post by amoebae on Feb 21, 2017 20:59:33 GMT
If the AI for MEA is anything like the AI in DAI, any teamwork will be largely coincidental. Reminds of my entire team taking off after a fennec while my Inq fights off 3 bears, all by himself. The hatred of fennecs and nugs runs deep in Thedas. And rams. They hate rams. Fucking rams, with their horns and their wool, standing there minding their business grr. |
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 21, 2017 21:00:45 GMT
I don't like much the change, but they said there are ways to set combos with companions. I'll judge the new system after they show us the squad command.
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Post by ProbeAway on Feb 21, 2017 21:02:14 GMT
If the AI for MEA is anything like the AI in DAI, any teamwork will be largely coincidental. i disagree. Strongly. Sure the AI had a unfortunate tendancy of charging into dragon fire. But DAI was probably the second bioware game where it felt like you had to bring your team with you and they actually contributed to your survival and success of the overall team. So much so where it felt like i was in a team of bad asses like the avengers rather then just Captain Marvel and her chums. I agree, but that teamwork was vastly improved by having the option to pause and issue commands. The AI presets and power preferences were useful, yet insufficient to get the most out of your team. |
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 21, 2017 21:02:25 GMT
I wrote the post below in another thread but it's how I feel about the new system:
I'm going to butt in here and argue that the new system without direct control of your squad mates is going to be more fun. The new combo system will put you in situations where you will be fighting and then a squad mate will randomly perform a move leaving you a window of opportunity to perform one of these combos we will learn about next week. It's going to keep things fresh because it will be spontaneous and random. The more you get to know you squads mates abilities and personalities, the better you will be at performing combos with them. They may also react intelligently based on your moves/abilities. (for example, I may freeze someone prompting cora to intelligently perform a Biotic combo).
I think we will be able to prompt them to attack or pull back, but it's more realistic (IMO) to not micro manage a fight even as a commander.
Think of it like link strikes and squad abilities in Final Fantasy 15 .
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 21, 2017 21:06:07 GMT
Well, Ian did say that part of ME:A's philosophy comes from the industry trends as of late of "minimizing HUD stuff for more immersion" or something to that effect, so this could be a decision made on part of that, like you say, so AI is really clever.
It just takes a lot because the AI in ME2/3 wasn't tonedeaf either. They did use their abilities and take cover and all that, and it sucks for non-mainstream players who can tell when a lot of "numbers" are going on in the background but has just not been highlighted with HUDs or custom controls and stuff.
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 21, 2017 21:07:27 GMT
Link strikes were neat, but they also weren't limited by cooldowns
If I can't monitor their cooldowns (gonna guess we can't if we can't wheel up their abilities) then we're just throwing crap at the fan and hoping for the best
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Post by crom on Feb 21, 2017 21:07:56 GMT
Good luck with that, all the same pause needs to come back and us giving orders to our squad mates along with it. This is just stupid.
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SKAR
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Post by SKAR on Feb 21, 2017 21:08:24 GMT
Well.... We really wouldn't need their powers when ours have no cool down. Besides, I never really used their powers.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Feb 21, 2017 21:10:36 GMT
So the only real use companions will have will be the banter they bring. Yay streamlining, I guess... Hmmm. I wonder if there will be an option to play the game solo. Just order them to attack different targets that there is no way they alone can solo and let them fall. Then you can go solo... that is what I am going to do. |
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Post by ATR16 on Feb 21, 2017 21:38:11 GMT
Their collision masks were way off and they'd often stand too close to you or in doors so you had to move them to exit, and their pathfinding was god damn atrocious. As an open world game where you walk around in a huge area exploring things they were just sorta there whenever there was no combat. During story-missions I liked them and I liked when they chimed into dialogue, but when just exploring during gameplay the companion feature felt disconnected to me compared to how it feels in normal BioWare games. They were also really, really, really poorly programmed for combat. Like tanks sometimes wandering off to fight no-damage nothings. Or archers decided to shoot arrows point blank. Or mages never using their useful spells unless you paused and switched over to them. |
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Post by longshadow on Feb 21, 2017 21:39:46 GMT
Source: NeoGAFI don't know why this is changed. In ME2 and 3 you could at least still decide between "Attack" or "use most useful ability" without pausing by pressing left or right on the d-pad or Q and E on PC. This sounds like a definitive step backwards and I don't understand why this change has been made....Unless it's because the AI and game-systems are rebuilt from scratch (which obviously, they are since it's Frostbite) and they just didn't get those features in... or something. I just think with that and what I've heard that companions don't have loot-based armor either like in DA2, I worry that they'll feel like they're just sorta there. You can't talk to them, you can't control what they do beyond "Attack or regroup" and you can't equip them like you do yourself, so outside of the Tempest I guess all they're there for is banter and story. I dunno, I just think that reinforces the issues DA:I had where companions already didn't fit very well into the kind of open-world thing it had going on because they just get in your way a lot of the time, but you could at least pick up loot to equip them in that game, and you could control every one of them to strategize the combat. Maybe if the companions have really good AI I guess this is fine in Andromeda... but otherwise it just seems like a needless change that pushes the companion element into the background. This change has been made because the powerwheel is gone. There is no way to access all of your squadmates powers (3+3=6) without pausing and using a powerwheel. (Please don't say "you can on pc", because all systems must have access to the same number of powers with one way or another.) So, the real question here is why the powerwheel is gone and I think we know the answer to this one. |
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TaliWhacker
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Post by TaliWhacker on Feb 21, 2017 21:51:41 GMT
I think this was to allow your squad-mates to seem more useful. In 1 they were pretty good, they shot stuff and used powers with acceptable frequency. With 2 and 3 they became utterly useless. They rarely shot, and because the powers were on a global cool-down their AI routines were written to use powers infrequently so that you could use their power. That is with power usage being set to active. I think they are doubling down on 1's style and trying to make them effective as possible. With full use of their powers they can be given AI routines that fit their combat style. This games is also about being mobile in combat which would make assigning them cover extremely hand holdy and counterintuitive to the game design. All I really want is to assign them a target, have them unleash hell, and have them preform competently on their own until then. This of course is only if they managed to write good teammate AI which is very difficult. They also could have set up the parameters like in DA:I.
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Post by amoebae on Feb 21, 2017 21:54:15 GMT
We can still assign them cover (it's shown at the end of the gameplay video).
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 21, 2017 22:02:50 GMT
Their collision masks were way off and they'd often stand too close to you or in doors so you had to move them to exit, and their pathfinding was god damn atrocious. As an open world game where you walk around in a huge area exploring things they were just sorta there whenever there was no combat. During story-missions I liked them and I liked when they chimed into dialogue, but when just exploring during gameplay the companion feature felt disconnected to me compared to how it feels in normal BioWare games. Still not following this. What should companions have been doing during exploration, and how was this different from any other Bio game? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 22:03:47 GMT
Anyone know why they took out the power wheel? I didn't see what was wrong with it. It was a feature that allowed for people who wanted to manage their squad to do so while those who didn't care did not have to use it. To me in this aspect it seems they are trying to fix something that wasn't broken...
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Post by azarhal on Feb 21, 2017 22:18:47 GMT
Source: NeoGAFI don't know why this is changed. In ME2 and 3 you could at least still decide between "Attack" or "use most useful ability" without pausing by pressing left or right on the d-pad or Q and E on PC. From what I remember, Q and E are to tell them to move to a specific point (usually cover because you know, they aren't very bright about that), not to ask them to use an ability. |
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Post by ATR16 on Feb 21, 2017 22:18:50 GMT
Anyone know why they took out the power wheel? I didn't see what was wrong with it. It was a feature that allowed for people who wanted to manage their squad to do so while those who didn't care did not have to use it. To me in this aspect it seems they are trying to fix something that wasn't broken... "You don't like what you like. You like what I tell you to like." - Vince McMahon |
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Mihura
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Post by Mihura on Feb 21, 2017 22:21:27 GMT
So the only real use companions will have will be the banter they bring. Yay streamlining, I guess... They had uses before?  I mean I never use companions unless in higher difficulties. Which begs the question, is the AI enough for that? |
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DalishRanger
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Post by DalishRanger on Feb 21, 2017 22:24:28 GMT
Admittedly I'm mixed on this news. I did occasionally use squad abilities for enemies like overload/incinerate to break down shields and armor faster. However, I've done runs in ME2/ME3 very rarely using their powers and in my recent ME1 replay, I don't think I called the squad abilities even once, so I suspect this change won't impact me as much as I think right now. In the end, how much I care squad powers missing is largely dependent on how good I find the rest of combat- if it doesn't feel like a big hassle to take down heavily armored and shielded foes, I'll manage. Most of what I've seen of combat so far, I like.
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Old school BioWare fan happily enjoying the new games.