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Post by Madflavor on Feb 22, 2017 1:13:36 GMT
It's entirely possible this is a decision the devs made, based purely on balance. We have to remember that global cooldown was removed. Imagine how much easier ME3 would have been if you and both your squadmates could constantly hammer an enemy with your powers. Imagine a Banshee rolls up, and within 5 seconds your party hits it with a couple warps, some grenades, incinerate, and maybe a concussive round for a little extra kick. It's worth remembering that cooldowns have also been made longer in MEA. Think around the longest un-upgraded cooldowns in ME3 - but for everything (or so is my understanding). It's going to make it all the more painful when your squad mate fires off something they shouldn't have against a really weak enemy and then the boss appears. That is possible too. I think we'll find out for sure what the deal is this friday since they specifically said they would go into Squadmate powers. I don't think they would dedicate a video to that, if they weren't introducing a new way for Squaddies to use their powers. For all we know there could be a new combo system on the horizon.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Feb 22, 2017 1:16:01 GMT
In ME1, Liara has Singularity, and as a soldier I did not. Singularity, and Pull, on a Geth Armature, is hilarious and if you haven't done it, you haven't really played the game I call Mass Effect. Your loss. It's not hilarious when the AI does it? I didn't mind getting ragdolled in ME1... It was frustrating, but if I could do that to the enemy and they also had access to Mass Effect tech, turnabout is fair play. Hilarious, no. Realistic, in the game's universe.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 1:32:28 GMT
It's not hilarious when the AI does it? I didn't mind getting ragdolled in ME1... It was frustrating, but if I could do that to the enemy and they also had access to Mass Effect tech, turnabout is fair play. Hilarious, no. Realistic, in the game's universe. Slightly O/T but enemy biotics should have access to every biotic ability players and companions can use. I can understand concerns about not putting players in positions where they can't avoid being ragdoll'd, but why not introduce some sort of defensive mechanic? Maybe the hardsuit VI warns "Mass effect field detected" a second before you get hit with a singularity or a pull or what have you, giving a very brief window (varying by difficulty setting) where you can roll/rocket out of the way or trigger some sort of defensive ability.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 22, 2017 1:48:06 GMT
It's not hilarious when the AI does it? I didn't mind getting ragdolled in ME1... It was frustrating, but if I could do that to the enemy and they also had access to Mass Effect tech, turnabout is fair play. Hilarious, no. Realistic, in the game's universe. That wasn't where I was going with that. My point was that AI Liara would be just as capable of producing said hilarity as a Liara under your control. Either way, the power hits the geth.
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Post by Nightlife on Feb 22, 2017 1:51:29 GMT
Is this confirmed as true? Now they are even worse than SWTOR companions. At least you could pick which abilities your comp could use, even if they were mainly cosmetic DOTs. Man then they are really dumbing this game down for the masses
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Feb 22, 2017 2:09:45 GMT
Finally justice for Joker. No longer will he always be on the receiving end of her quips... As long as he picked Destroy, that is. EDI doesn't need her mobile platform to snark. Touche`
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Madflavor
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 22, 2017 2:14:47 GMT
If this is exactly as we feared, I'm thinking that because of the removal of Global Cooldowns, it won't be as bad as we think. Because of GC in ME3, if we wanted to use tech or biotic combos, we needed a squadmate's help to do that. That's why manual input was important. But in ME:A, Ryder can fire off combos on his own.
I don't think it's a change I agree with, but if we no longer need a squaddies aid to combo, it might not suck as much. To be frank, the only time I really used manual input of powers from ME3, is when I wanted to combo. But for the most part, the squad was there to help draw some fire off of me, and to apply DPS.
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Post by stealthfox94 on Feb 22, 2017 2:18:01 GMT
Crap
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Post by The Twilight God on Feb 22, 2017 2:27:19 GMT
Source: NeoGAFI don't know why this is changed. In ME2 and 3 you could at least still decide between "Attack" or "use most useful ability" without pausing by pressing left or right on the d-pad or Q and E on PC. This sounds like a definitive step backwards and I don't understand why this change has been made. ...Unless it's because the AI and game-systems are rebuilt from scratch (which obviously, they are since it's Frostbite) and they just didn't get those features in... or something. I just think with that and what I've heard that companions don't have loot-based armor either like in DA2, I worry that they'll feel like they're just sorta there. You can't talk to them, you can't control what they do beyond "Attack or regroup" and you can't equip them like you do yourself, so outside of the Tempest I guess all they're there for is banter and story. I dunno, I just think that reinforces the issues DA:I had where companions already didn't fit very well into the kind of open-world thing it had going on because they just get in your way a lot of the time, but you could at least pick up loot to equip them in that game, and you could control every one of them to strategize the combat. Maybe if the companions have really good AI I guess this is fine in Andromeda... but otherwise it just seems like a needless change that pushes the companion element into the background. Perhaps they are taking the Microsoft approach of releasing inferior updates so that they can reintroduce all the stuff they gutted from previous software iterations later and pretend it's new.
In the next game set in Andromeda you'll have this cool new feature: In-combat pause allowing you to direct your squad mates tactically. Wow, wouldn't that be cool?
Although, I mean, it has to be more than attack and regroup. Even without a pause you could at least have attack icons to press where... oh, yeah... it's going to be on consoles too. And designed with that limited control scheme. Ugh.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Feb 22, 2017 2:36:05 GMT
Are we losing our shit already? Is this confirmed?
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Post by ProbeAway on Feb 22, 2017 2:36:54 GMT
To be fair, Mass Effect was never really about controlling your squadmates. Originally in ME1, BioWare was actually going to allow the player to switch between them as in BioWare's other games. Due to time constraints and hardware limitations on the Xbox 360, BioWare decided against it and gave squadmaters a more limited role. As long as the squadmate AI is smart enough to use certain abilities against certain enemy AI, I don't see this being a massive concern. Ultimately, the Pathfinder is going to be doing most of the destruction anyway, as least that's what ends up happening with me playing on Insanity. So you're saying that a game which: (a) gives you absolute control over which powers your squadmates use and when, where they go and what enemy they target (just like in every other Bioware game); and ( would have given you the ability to switch directly between squadmates (just like in every other Bioware game) but for time and hardware limitations, was never about controlling your squadmates? Apologies if that comes across a bit smart-ass but I hope you can see why others might disagree with you on that one! As for the AI, I have my doubts that it will be good enough to compensate for the loss of control but I'm willing to wait and see what Bioware has come up with. Who knows, I might be pleasantly surprised by the AI and/or the final squad mechanics.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 22, 2017 2:49:22 GMT
Are we losing our shit already? Is this confirmed? I don't understand why on this topic. We haven't seen how the new system will work yet. At least wait till confirmations/mechanics are shown.
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 22, 2017 2:56:27 GMT
Are we losing our shit already? Is this confirmed? I don't understand why on this topic. We haven't seen how the new system will work yet. At least wait till confirmations/mechanics are shown. It has been confirmed by Shinobi, who is an insider. He's a reliable guy, so it's pretty much confirmation. That said, while I do think it sucks, it probably won't be as bad as people think. I don't think Bioware would just up and remove control over squadmate powers, without having something to make up for it.
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Post by ATR16 on Feb 22, 2017 2:58:44 GMT
Source: NeoGAFI don't know why this is changed. In ME2 and 3 you could at least still decide between "Attack" or "use most useful ability" without pausing by pressing left or right on the d-pad or Q and E on PC. This sounds like a definitive step backwards and I don't understand why this change has been made. ...Unless it's because the AI and game-systems are rebuilt from scratch (which obviously, they are since it's Frostbite) and they just didn't get those features in... or something. I just think with that and what I've heard that companions don't have loot-based armor either like in DA2, I worry that they'll feel like they're just sorta there. You can't talk to them, you can't control what they do beyond "Attack or regroup" and you can't equip them like you do yourself, so outside of the Tempest I guess all they're there for is banter and story. I dunno, I just think that reinforces the issues DA:I had where companions already didn't fit very well into the kind of open-world thing it had going on because they just get in your way a lot of the time, but you could at least pick up loot to equip them in that game, and you could control every one of them to strategize the combat. Maybe if the companions have really good AI I guess this is fine in Andromeda... but otherwise it just seems like a needless change that pushes the companion element into the background. Perhaps they are taking the Microsoft approach of releasing inferior updates so that they can reintroduce all the stuff they gutted from previous software iterations later and pretend it's new.
In the next game set in Andromeda you'll have this cool new feature: In-combat pause allowing you to direct your squad mates tactically. Wow, wouldn't that be cool?
Although, I mean, it has to be more than attack and regroup. Even without a pause you could at least have attack icons to press where... oh, yeah... it's going to be on consoles too. And designed with that limited control scheme. Ugh.
ME:A2 "Our all new combat system allows you to tell your squadmates which ability they should use in a situation, allowing you full control over the battlefield. This breakthrough is something we worked hard on and are very excited to bring to you, the fans." Or maybe it'll go full the other way. Didn't Peter Molyneaux, or maybe David Cage, talk about how he wanted to create a game that only used one button?
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Post by oniangel on Feb 22, 2017 3:07:48 GMT
Literally. It's just a change for the sake of change unless they had to make a choice and leave it on the cutting table for something more important to get done. I think it's the former in this case, but I don't understand it (yet, hopefully) If BioWare were truly "inclusive" they wouldn't exclude the functionality that the more strategic players crave. this is probably some result of focus testing or catering to mainstream players who don't seem to ever use the tactical commands anyway. They go where the common denominator is, and as usual it's the lowest because gaming is so mainstream now. I think pause being removed could be a big factor. Then there are swapable abilities eating up some key combos. Players who needed the pausing to have time to select abilities would struggle without the pause. I do find it unfortunate there will not be a key command option. Seems the combat system ME was known for is a thing of the past in favor of smooth action.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 22, 2017 3:16:46 GMT
I don't understand why on this topic. We haven't seen how the new system will work yet. At least wait till confirmations/mechanics are shown. It has been confirmed by Shinobi, who is an insider. He's a reliable guy, so it's pretty much confirmation. That said, while I do think it sucks, it probably won't be as bad as people think. I don't think Bioware would just up and remove control over squadmate powers, without having something to make up for it. We can't choose which ability to use but we don't know how the new system will work so it's all premature. You may be able to pick which ability to use by knowing when to initiate a combo. Again my guess is it will be based on a specific situation. In FFXV for example, I could get Gladio to block me from an enemy with his shield with any pause or commands but it had to be the right scenario for him to do it. I couldn't just say, "Gladio block me!" when the situation didn't make sense. I ME:A, I know that because Cora's cooldown is ready and she is near a specific enemy, I have to perform a specific action myself for her to perform a combo, and it works if I did it right. If we can at least hit left or right on the dpad, I will learn that with Cora who is in a certain situation, I can hit right on the dpad for her to perform an ability automatically fits giving me the opportunity to follow up on it. You still control of commands with it being more fluid and realistic while giving your squad mates a mind of their own. That being said, people should calm down until the video confirms everything.
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 22, 2017 3:21:58 GMT
It has been confirmed by Shinobi, who is an insider. He's a reliable guy, so it's pretty much confirmation. That said, while I do think it sucks, it probably won't be as bad as people think. I don't think Bioware would just up and remove control over squadmate powers, without having something to make up for it. We can't choose which ability to use but we don't know how the new system will work so it's all premature. You may be able to pick which ability to use by knowing when to initiate a combo. Again my guess is it will be based on a specific situation. In FFXV for example, I could get Gladio to block me from an enemy with his shield with any pause or commands but it had to be the right scenario for him to do it. I couldn't just say, "Gladio block me!" when the situation didn't make sense. I ME:A, I know that because Cora's cooldown is ready and she is near a specific enemy, I have to perform a specific action myself for her to perform a combo, and it works if I did it right. If we can at least hit left or right on the dpad, I will learn that with Cora who is in a certain situation, I can hit right on the dpad for her to perform an ability automatically fits giving me the opportunity to follow up on it. You still control of commands with it being more fluid and realistic while giving your squad mates a mind of their own. That being said, people should calm down until the video confirms everything. Agreed. It's entirely possible this could end up being a good change, as the removal of the pause menu and power commands will keep the flow of battle going.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 22, 2017 3:26:47 GMT
Agreed. It's entirely possible this could end up being a good change, as the removal of the pause menu and power commands will keep the flow of battle going. I can appreciate why people are upset over the power wheel/Command Wheel being gone. They want more control and customization at their finger tips during battle. The same reason I want more customization, details, and control over basic RPG elements. I'm looking forward to the new combat system. I really liked the free flow of FFXV's new system over the turn based or wait/pause system.
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 22, 2017 3:29:34 GMT
Agreed. It's entirely possible this could end up being a good change, as the removal of the pause menu and power commands will keep the flow of battle going. I can appreciate why people are upset over the power wheel/Command Wheel being gone. They want more control and customization at their finger tips during battle. The same reason I want more customization, details, and control over basic RPG elements. I'm looking forward to the new combat system. I really liked the free flow of FFXV's new system over the turn based or wait/pause system. Friday can't come any faster, so people on here can properly discuss squad commands. For now just gotta sit tight I guess.
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Post by Xerxes52 on Feb 22, 2017 3:41:14 GMT
I'll keep a look out for it. On one hand I'm skeptical, since I don't like losing the ability to manually use my AI team's powers, but on the other hand the AI in DAI was pretty good at killing enemies and setting up combos, and I didn't have to babysit them.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 22, 2017 4:17:34 GMT
There's only one question that I really need answered and I hope that answer is satisfactory: Will companions stay fucking still when I order them to? Biower pls.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 22, 2017 4:20:11 GMT
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 22, 2017 4:22:10 GMT
Copy and pasting this from another thread:
Here's the problem I'm having. ME2 and most especially ME3 were clearly action heavy shooters. We can all agree on that I would think. But we also had the ability to pause, bring up a menu, and issue commands.The more I think about it however, the more open I am to the idea of getting rid of those. The only times I relied on the powers of my Squad, is during the higher difficulties, and when I did, I had to bring up the command menu a lot. So basically the flow of battle would go like this:
5 seconds of shooting Command menu 3 seconds of shooting Command menu 0.5 seconds of shooting Command menu 10 second of shooting Command menu 0.5 seconds of shooting Command menu
You get the point.
So even though I did like issuing commands for my squad to use powers, it did break up the flow of combat. The fact is, we won't truly know whether or not we'll like this change, until we get our hands on the game and play for ourselves. I don't think who we choose as our squadmates "won't matter". There will obviously be a difference between Cora and PeeBee, because as a Vanguard, Cora will be charging in a lot and scatter the enemy, while PeeBee is more likely to keep distance. Drak for example will obviously be a tank that helps draw fire from Ryder. So it's things like this that lead me to believe this probably won't be a detraction.
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Post by Xerxes52 on Feb 22, 2017 4:26:24 GMT
For me the big question is, will our squad members have their weapon damage arbitrarily reduced like in ME2 and ME3? I certainly hope they got rid of it for MEA.
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 22, 2017 4:38:38 GMT
For me the big question is, will our squad members have their weapon damage arbitrarily reduced like in ME2 and ME3? I certainly hope they got rid of it for MEA. I imagine so. Can you imagine if our Squadmates had top notch AI, and did as much damage as we did? Step 1: Enter battle Step 2: Get behind cover Step 3: Leave console/pc and go make yourself a sandwich Step 4: Come back and collect loot. In all seriousness though, the squad is mostly there to help draw fire away from you, crowd control, and extra dps. Even if we can't issue power commands, that doesn't mean there won't be variation on who we bring along. I would think that the flow of battle would be noticeably different if you brought Cora and Drak (two very offensive companions), than say PeeBee and Vetra. Not saying Vetra and Peebs suck, but they might approach battle in a safer more conservative way.
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