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Post by isaidlunch on Feb 22, 2017 4:52:35 GMT
I would've preferred having direct control over one power, with the rest being automatic. Hopefully the AI for squad powers is very good.
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Post by Lawrence0294 on Feb 22, 2017 5:29:40 GMT
Damn, I gotta say, that is thorougly disappointing to read. It's also a shame, just as I was gathering a little bit of hype for the game, this news pops up in addition to the removal of tactical pause. I'll keep an open mind but I really don't like this, removing established player control and freedom in a game is never a smart idea.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 22, 2017 5:57:16 GMT
I'm ultra hyped for this game but I have to admit; this is the one thing I'm concerned about. Everything else we've been shown looks fantastic IMO but I'm not sure I'd trust the game to actually use the skills at the right time according to how I'm playing. Oh well, just have to wait and see tbh. I'm in your boat Drack, I'm hyped on everything I've seen (especially after the last trailer), but this is my only real concern (I'm over the Tempest being de-fanged now lol). What can save this from actually being a problem is: 1. Squadmate AI is ridiculously good, and they save their power use for the right times and their cooldowns somehow sync with our tech/biotic combos we prime on targets. Cora using a charge/nova combo on a trash mob just wouldn't be a good thing at all, lol. 2. Tech/Biotic combos are pulled off in a way that gives us full power over them, and we're not just 'hoping' that Cora has a charge ready, or Liam 'maybe' has an overload on hand....that is the biggest worry for me, not having control during battle and they just go hug the enemy with a nova and die...then we gotta just be 'hoping' all the time.
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Post by amoebae on Feb 22, 2017 6:30:27 GMT
I'm ultra hyped for this game but I have to admit; this is the one thing I'm concerned about. Everything else we've been shown looks fantastic IMO but I'm not sure I'd trust the game to actually use the skills at the right time according to how I'm playing. Oh well, just have to wait and see tbh. I'm in your boat Drack, I'm hyped on everything I've seen (especially after the last trailer), but this is my only real concern (I'm over the Tempest being de-fanged now lol). What can save this from actually being a problem is: 1. Squadmate AI is ridiculously good, and they save their power use for the right times and their cooldowns somehow sync with our tech/biotic combos we prime on targets. Cora using a charge/nova combo on a trash mob just wouldn't be a good thing at all, lol. 2. Tech/Biotic combos are pulled off in a way that gives us full power over them, and we're not just 'hoping' that Cora has a charge ready, or Liam 'maybe' has an overload on hand....that is the biggest worry for me, not having control during battle and they just go hug the enemy with a nova and die...then we gotta just be 'hoping' all the time. You explain it really well. You know, the game could live or die by this. If you're in combat and a big (looks like atlas but isn't) mech drops and we need to deal with that armour, stat - but everyone who had incinerate or whatever other armour-stripping powers used it on goon #2 over there and now it's on a 30 second cooldown and we're stuck here behind a rock wondering whether it'll be the heat of the sun that does us in first or the mech... I mean, it's going to be a frustrating time. And if it's frustrating enough - if it doesn't work as it should enough - well gamers haven't proven themselves very kind in recent years and I worry it could give the game a worse rep than it deserves (since I wholeheartedly expect everything else will be pretty good).
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Post by oniangel on Feb 22, 2017 6:41:24 GMT
I'm in your boat Drack, I'm hyped on everything I've seen (especially after the last trailer), but this is my only real concern (I'm over the Tempest being de-fanged now lol). What can save this from actually being a problem is: 1. Squadmate AI is ridiculously good, and they save their power use for the right times and their cooldowns somehow sync with our tech/biotic combos we prime on targets. Cora using a charge/nova combo on a trash mob just wouldn't be a good thing at all, lol. 2. Tech/Biotic combos are pulled off in a way that gives us full power over them, and we're not just 'hoping' that Cora has a charge ready, or Liam 'maybe' has an overload on hand....that is the biggest worry for me, not having control during battle and they just go hug the enemy with a nova and die...then we gotta just be 'hoping' all the time. You explain it really well. You know, the game could live or die by this. If you're in combat and a big (looks like atlas but isn't) mech drops and we need to deal with that armour, stat - but everyone who had incinerate or whatever other armour-stripping powers used it on goon #2 over there and now it's on a 30 second cooldown and we're stuck here behind a rock wondering whether it'll be the heat of the sun that does us in first or the mech... I mean, it's going to be a frustrating time. And if it's frustrating enough - if it doesn't work as it should enough - well gamers haven't proven themselves very kind in recent years and I worry it could give the game a worse rep than it deserves (since I wholeheartedly expect everything else will be pretty good). Agreed with it being annoying when abilities get wasted on mooks and one wants to use them on elites or gets wasted on some lone enemy when the AoE ability could of been used on a group. At the very least there should be one hotkey ability like there has been prior. The removal of pause and the want for more flow does not negate the prior option of a hotkey. Having the hotkey fits in line with a focus on action oriented game play.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 22, 2017 6:50:07 GMT
You explain it really well. You know, the game could live or die by this. If you're in combat and a big (looks like atlas but isn't) mech drops and we need to deal with that armour, stat - but everyone who had incinerate or whatever other armour-stripping powers used it on goon #2 over there and now it's on a 30 second cooldown and we're stuck here behind a rock wondering whether it'll be the heat of the sun that does us in first or the mech... I mean, it's going to be a frustrating time. And if it's frustrating enough - if it doesn't work as it should enough - well gamers haven't proven themselves very kind in recent years and I worry it could give the game a worse rep than it deserves (since I wholeheartedly expect everything else will be pretty good). Agreed with it being annoying when abilities get wasted on mooks and one wants to use them on elites or gets wasted on some lone enemy when the AoE ability could of been used on a group. At the very least there should be one hotkey ability like there has been prior. The removal of pause and the want for more flow does not negate the prior option of a hotkey. Having the hotkey fits in line with a focus on action oriented game play. I'm pretty sure Shinobi confirmed there is no control over abilities whatsoever on GAF's ME Community Thread (lovely community it is btw), so that aforementioned hotkey won't be happening. What could possibly be in the works, is an AI dictator (like Dragon Age: Origins), which specifies what abilities they should use on who, and how often....maybe there's that? I'll ask a twitter question, see if I get a response.
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Post by zeowik on Feb 22, 2017 7:09:40 GMT
This feature being gutted is terrible news. This is an RPG series first to me and not a FPS series with RPG elements, like they seem to be steering it towards.
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Post by NRieh on Feb 22, 2017 7:16:01 GMT
Well, it's not like MEs were famous for their fully-customizable and scriptable AI. The squad control had always been meh, imo. DA:Inquisition with its dead&lucklustre 'behaviour presets' had it better than any of MEs, actually.
I can live with this 'change', as long as I'm still allowed to control the leveling process and\or their weapon loadouts. That sould give us enough room for flexing their playstyle.
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Post by oniangel on Feb 22, 2017 7:24:03 GMT
Agreed with it being annoying when abilities get wasted on mooks and one wants to use them on elites or gets wasted on some lone enemy when the AoE ability could of been used on a group. At the very least there should be one hotkey ability like there has been prior. The removal of pause and the want for more flow does not negate the prior option of a hotkey. Having the hotkey fits in line with a focus on action oriented game play. I'm pretty sure Shinobi confirmed there is no control over abilities whatsoever on GAF's ME Community Thread (lovely community it is btw), so that aforementioned hotkey won't be happening. What could possibly be in the works, is an AI dictator (like Dragon Age: Origins), which specifies what abilities they should use on who, and how often....maybe there's that? I'll ask a twitter question, see if I get a response. You are correct on Shinobi's response. Hopefully there will be a system this time that is a far step up from ME3 auto. Ill be fine without performing some really tight interweaved combos if combos can be done without being mostly reactive. Hopefully you get a response! This change will certainly have a factor on the difficulty of insanity. Being able to strip a banshee's shields when they spawned with a combo or debuffs and dropping them by their first teleport was fun.
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Post by ATR16 on Feb 22, 2017 7:42:19 GMT
I'm pretty sure Shinobi confirmed there is no control over abilities whatsoever on GAF's ME Community Thread (lovely community it is btw), so that aforementioned hotkey won't be happening. What could possibly be in the works, is an AI dictator (like Dragon Age: Origins), which specifies what abilities they should use on who, and how often....maybe there's that? I'll ask a twitter question, see if I get a response. You are correct on Shinobi's response. Hopefully there will be a system this time that is a far step up from ME3 auto. Ill be fine without performing some really tight interweaved combos if combos can be done without being mostly reactive. Hopefully you get a response! This change will certainly have a factor on the difficulty of insanity. Being able to strip a banshee's shields when they spawned with a combo or debuffs and dropping them by their first teleport was fun. The kicker in that line of thinking is that Dragon Age combat is slow. Very rarely does one wrong move really bone you. In ME, one poor choice or unexpectedly good move from the enemy AI and your barriers are down and your health is depleting rapidly.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 22, 2017 7:47:55 GMT
You are correct on Shinobi's response. Hopefully there will be a system this time that is a far step up from ME3 auto. Ill be fine without performing some really tight interweaved combos if combos can be done without being mostly reactive. Hopefully you get a response! This change will certainly have a factor on the difficulty of insanity. Being able to strip a banshee's shields when they spawned with a combo or debuffs and dropping them by their first teleport was fun. The kicker in that line of thinking is that Dragon Age combat is slow. Very rarely does one wrong move really bone you. In ME, one poor choice or unexpectedly good move from the enemy AI and your barriers are down and your health is depleting rapidly. Exactly, that's why I'm hoping like fuck the AI is as smart as Skynet
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Post by longshadow on Feb 22, 2017 8:02:43 GMT
This change has been made because the powerwheel is gone. There is no way to access all of your squadmates powers (3+3=6) without pausing and using a powerwheel. (Please don't say "you can on pc", because all systems must have access to the same number of powers with one way or another.) So, the real question here is why the powerwheel is gone and I think we know the answer to this one. Don't need to access all of them, just the one that's mapped to the dpad. Profile switching could've been used to access the rest of their powers. They could've worked it into the current mechanics that way. And if not that way, the power wheel should be the first thing that pops up and then we should have to press Y/▲ to access the weapon/ammo wheel instead of the current standard which is the reverse. It's a simple change, and one they should make a reality for Mass 5. We don't know if the d-pad buttons are available for this, the game might be using them for something else already.
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Post by sageoflife on Feb 22, 2017 8:28:34 GMT
Combining this with the return of individual cooldowns, I wonder if they're going to introduce a tactics system similar to those used in Dragon Age.
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Post by javeart on Feb 22, 2017 9:27:59 GMT
The problem for me it's not even about how good or bad is the AI. I mean, if the AI is awful, then fights would be harder, that's it, but even if the squadmates make good choices and set combos perfectly on their own and all, I still had fun doing it myself.
On the other hand, I have to admit that I enjoy playing without having to pause to micromanage everything. The ideal for me it's DAO's and DA2's system, and though in MEA we're getting at best something similar to what we had in DAI (favourite powers, defend/attack), well, at least we can now set more combos on our own, and there's always the challenge of trying to take advantage of what you're squadmates are doing, I guess
I don't know, I usually played controlling all the time my squadmate's powers, but I have had fun too focusing only on what I'm doing in pt where I decided to ignore them, and that was in games designed to take advantage of them, so I imagine it will be better in one desgined to be played like that... I can understand why it bothers other people, but personally I think I'd be ok
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Post by Nightlife on Feb 22, 2017 9:40:52 GMT
THIS MAKES ME SO PISSED!!! (if confirmed)
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Post by Cypher on Feb 22, 2017 9:41:27 GMT
Don't need to access all of them, just the one that's mapped to the dpad. Profile switching could've been used to access the rest of their powers. They could've worked it into the current mechanics that way. And if not that way, the power wheel should be the first thing that pops up and then we should have to press Y/▲ to access the weapon/ammo wheel instead of the current standard which is the reverse. It's a simple change, and one they should make a reality for Mass 5. We don't know if the d-pad buttons are available for this, the game might be using them for something else already. If we still have control over squad positioning and who they attack, then the dpad is available. Power mapping could be activated by holding down the direction so that the power is used either on the person they're immediately attacking or given priority to the enemy you're softlocked to.
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Post by Psychevore on Feb 22, 2017 9:42:37 GMT
None of that requires knowing the player's position, nor habits. How doesn't it? What if I'm in a sticky situation and need a panic overload/stun/stagger move to buy me the time to run to cover? Or what if I don't want a power detonated and would rather the DOT/weakening stay in effect on a target? What if I want a target hit with an ability but the AI decides its a better idea to shoot it? Or use the ability I don't want used? Programming competent AI isn't easy. Let alone one with any sophistication. I didn't mention ANY of these things. But your problem is you want the AI to adjust to you. Most likely, it's going to be you adjusting to the AI. I have no problems with that btw.
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Post by Psychevore on Feb 22, 2017 9:44:13 GMT
This feature being gutted is terrible news. This is an RPG series first to me and not a FPS series with RPG elements, like they seem to be steering it towards. This was always a TPS with RPG elemelents, not the other way around.
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Post by ioannisdenton on Feb 22, 2017 9:51:58 GMT
If the AI for MEA is anything like the AI in DAI, any teamwork will be largely coincidental. i disagree. Strongly. Sure the AI had a unfortunate tendancy of charging into dragon fire. But DAI was probably the second bioware game where it felt like you had to bring your team with you and they actually contributed to your survival and success of the overall team. So much so where it felt like i was in a team of bad asses like the avengers rather then just Captain Marvel and her chums. yeap, DaI despite having ZERO custom tactics like daO and da2 had, the companions actually did perform cross class combos when they could. Saw it happen all the time. Also warrior combat roll, seen many times iron bull and blackwall rolling away from danger (ie dragon fireball) i actually paused to applause.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 22, 2017 9:54:13 GMT
The problem for me it's not even about how good or bad is the AI. I mean, if the AI is awful, then fights would be harder, that's it, but even if the squadmates make good choices and set combos perfectly on their own and all, I still had fun doing it myself. On the other hand, I have to admit that I enjoy playing without having to pause to micromanage everything. The ideal for me it's DAO's and DA2's system, and though in MEA we're getting at best something similar to what we had in DAI (favourite powers, defend/attack), well, at least we can now set more combos on our own, and there's always the challenge of trying to take advantage of what you're squadmates are doing, I guess I don't know, I usually played controlling all the time my squadmate's powers, but I have had fun too focusing only on what I'm doing in pt where I decided to ignore them, and that was in games designed to take advantage of them, so I imagine it will be better in one desgined to be played like that... I can understand why it bothers other people, but personally I think I'd be ok One aspect of this (and this would be pretty fucking cool if you ask me), is if the AI is good enough to spot a boss enemy out in the open who is vulnerable, and they somehow 'call out' an attack to Ryder, where we have a window of opportunity to detonate a primed target, so reverse teamwork if you will. Cora: Get ready to blow up my target! Ryder: Sounds good homegirl, let's do this! etc.
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Post by stysiaq on Feb 22, 2017 10:16:58 GMT
Congratulations, BioWare, for stripping away any tactics out of this game.
I'm really concerned about this. I'd wish ME to be more of a tactical shooter, not just you pew-pewing at baddies while your waifu and other cheerleader stand in the open gathering all enemy fire with their faces and getting up when you clear the area. What's the point of your squad when you can't control which powers they use? What's the point of leveling them up? What's the point of power combos without you having control over them?
Jesus I am really triggered by game devs taking out game elements out of a FUCKING GAME.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 10:33:46 GMT
No tactical pause, only 3 ''quick powers'', and now no squadmates powers usage, plus the AI looks stupid from that latest combat gameplay trailer (standing in front of big mech, Varric is that you? ).. I'm not going to lie to myself just to feel better - I'm disappointed with those decisions.. Still I don't play ME games only for combat, so maybe I will live
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Post by ioannisdenton on Feb 22, 2017 10:40:02 GMT
Stay positive and cautious people, i also am somewhat cautious for the changes but do realise: How many bioware games are the same as the previous ones? None. Me1 is vastly different to me2 Same as all dragon age games. Remeber how differently kotor played. Nevertheless i like/love all their games. We shall wait and see. the pause wheel is a trademark of bioware games and i am kinda bummed to see it gone (is it official though?)
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Feb 22, 2017 12:56:47 GMT
I didn't mind getting ragdolled in ME1... It was frustrating, but if I could do that to the enemy and they also had access to Mass Effect tech, turnabout is fair play. Hilarious, no. Realistic, in the game's universe. That wasn't where I was going with that. My point was that AI Liara would be just as capable of producing said hilarity as a Liara under your control. Either way, the power hits the geth. Just as capable, yes. Just as probable? Hell no. While you are correct if the best game was always "working as intended". I remember arguing with you long enough on old BSN prime to know that you know Bioware games are not always working as intended.
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Post by daniel on Feb 22, 2017 13:07:14 GMT
Not sure what do think about this!? Choosing what powers your squad mates use was one of those things that either made a mission a succes or a failure. Does this also mean that we can't choose whether the biotics in our team use powers or weapons?
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