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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 21, 2017 22:39:19 GMT
Link strikes were neat, but they also weren't limited by cooldowns If I can't monitor their cooldowns (gonna guess we can't if we can't wheel up their abilities) then we're just throwing crap at the fan and hoping for the best You can see a cooldown next to either Squad mates's icon in the combat video. This will let you know when they are primed to do a combo again. It also shows real time their status of being hit/injured. Instead of saying attack or fallback, it may just be limited to promoting the squadmate to attack or perform the ability and/or initiate a combo. I would press left on the dpad for cora and right on the dpad for Liam. They will intelligently act based on their abilities and initiate a combo if you have primed for one before hitting left or right. The combo system also works better bc They won't just use abilities for no reason. They will hopefully intelligently prime you for combos as well. Again, I like this because you can still give commands to act, but they will choose the appropriate action/ability based on the scenario. This requires you, a the player, to get to know you squad's capabilities better and master each situation. |
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Post by Cypher on Feb 21, 2017 22:47:33 GMT
Source: NeoGAFI don't know why this is changed. In ME2 and 3 you could at least still decide between "Attack" or "use most useful ability" without pausing by pressing left or right on the d-pad or Q and E on PC. This sounds like a definitive step backwards and I don't understand why this change has been made....Unless it's because the AI and game-systems are rebuilt from scratch (which obviously, they are since it's Frostbite) and they just didn't get those features in... or something. I just think with that and what I've heard that companions don't have loot-based armor either like in DA2, I worry that they'll feel like they're just sorta there. You can't talk to them, you can't control what they do beyond "Attack or regroup" and you can't equip them like you do yourself, so outside of the Tempest I guess all they're there for is banter and story. I dunno, I just think that reinforces the issues DA:I had where companions already didn't fit very well into the kind of open-world thing it had going on because they just get in your way a lot of the time, but you could at least pick up loot to equip them in that game, and you could control every one of them to strategize the combat. Maybe if the companions have really good AI I guess this is fine in Andromeda... but otherwise it just seems like a needless change that pushes the companion element into the background. This change has been made because the powerwheel is gone. There is no way to access all of your squadmates powers (3+3=6) without pausing and using a powerwheel. (Please don't say "you can on pc", because all systems must have access to the same number of powers with one way or another.) So, the real question here is why the powerwheel is gone and I think we know the answer to this one. Don't need to access all of them, just the one that's mapped to the dpad. Profile switching could've been used to access the rest of their powers. They could've worked it into the current mechanics that way. And if not that way, the power wheel should be the first thing that pops up and then we should have to press Y/▲ to access the weapon/ammo wheel instead of the current standard which is the reverse. It's a simple change, and one they should make a reality for Mass 5. |
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Post by themikefest on Feb 21, 2017 22:49:59 GMT
Just order them to attack different targets that there is no way they alone can solo and let them fall. Then you can go solo... that is what I am going to do. I did that for ME3. I used t'soni and edibot for the whole game. I had them move towards a bunch of enemies to be killed. It was a very funny playthrough. The best part is that they were killed for good when Harbinger vaporized them. excellent  |
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 21, 2017 22:53:15 GMT
Link strikes were neat, but they also weren't limited by cooldowns If I can't monitor their cooldowns (gonna guess we can't if we can't wheel up their abilities) then we're just throwing crap at the fan and hoping for the best You can see a cooldown next to either Squad mates's icon in the combat video. This will let you know when they are primed to do a combo again. It also shows real time their status of being hit/injured. Instead of saying attack or fallback, it may just be limited to promoting the squadmate to attack or perform the ability and/or initiate a combo. I would press left on the dpad for cora and right on the dpad for Liam. They will intelligently act based on their abilities and initiate a combo if you have primed for one before hitting left or right. The combo system also works better bc They won't just use abilities for no reason. They will hopefully intelligently prime you for combos as well. Again, I like this because you can still give commands to act, but they will choose the appropriate action/ability based on the scenario. This requires you, a the player, to get to know you squad's capabilities better and master each situation. I seen the icon spot next to the companion portrait, but only seen it displaying a reticle that i believe signals that the character is still locked onto a commanded target. Did you see an ability cooling down in that section? |
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Post by Psychevore on Feb 21, 2017 22:54:12 GMT
So much negativity. For all you know, they might do exactly what they should:
Get rid of shields if an enemy is shielded and they have the ability to do so.
Get rid of armor if an enemy is armored and they have the ability to do so.
Detonate if target is primed and they have the ability to do so.
Prime unprotected enemies and they have the ability to do so.
Shoot at shit.
That doesn't even sound that hard and is kinda what the AI in DA:I did already.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 21, 2017 23:35:32 GMT
i disagree. Strongly. Sure the AI had a unfortunate tendancy of charging into dragon fire. But DAI was probably the second bioware game where it felt like you had to bring your team with you and they actually contributed to your survival and success of the overall team. So much so where it felt like i was in a team of bad asses like the avengers rather then just Captain Marvel and her chums. I agree, but that teamwork was vastly improved by having the option to pause and issue commands. The AI presets and power preferences were useful, yet insufficient to get the most out of your team. granted. But in the last video Mac talked about the ability to issue squad commands. So we will be able to order our squad around to do something. We don't really no, and i don't even feel like we have enough info where even i can speculate. So with that in mind i am going to wait till we get specifics hopefully sooner rather then later before i get concerned. And even then, for me personally, i doubt this will be much of an issue since this is mass effect and not dragon age. |
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Feb 21, 2017 23:42:42 GMT
"In my last playthrough I never used it..."
"My teammates are just meat shields anyway..."
...
Again, hooray for everyone that doesn't like the old combat system. I for one, still enjoy using squad powers if I am playing ME 1,2 or 3, because it is fun setting up those combos, it makes the ROFLstomp even more stompy, and it is fun.
In ME1, Liara has Singularity, and as a soldier I did not. Singularity, and Pull, on a Geth Armature, is hilarious and if you haven't done it, you haven't really played the game I call Mass Effect. Your loss.
There is no explanation that will be satisfying for this, and the only hope is that the AI is so strong that it actually plays smart, actually works with your strategy as a "leader" - and that is a lot to ask. Especially from Biovar Plox & Co, Working as Intended LLC.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 21, 2017 23:44:17 GMT
To be fair, Mass Effect was never really about controlling your squadmates. Originally in ME1, BioWare was actually going to allow the player to switch between them as in BioWare's other games. Due to time constraints and hardware limitations on the Xbox 360, BioWare decided against it and gave squadmaters a more limited role.
As long as the squadmate AI is smart enough to use certain abilities against certain enemy AI, I don't see this being a massive concern. Ultimately, the Pathfinder is going to be doing most of the destruction anyway, as least that's what ends up happening with me playing on Insanity.
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Post by amoebae on Feb 21, 2017 23:51:41 GMT
I just watched a couple of videos from the demos of ME1 back in the day.
Back when they were intending for you to be able to directly control your squad mates a la Dragon Age.
Oh to what could have been.
In related news, the placeholder voice acting was atrocious.
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Post by Command0rk on Feb 21, 2017 23:58:47 GMT
I had suspected this for a while but disappointing to have it confirmed. I make full use of my squadmates powers in all three games, part of what makes the combat fun for me. As a few have mentioned, setting up combos with your squaddies is the most satisfying way to clear a room tbh
Oh well. Change might be refreshing I guess.
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Post by ATR16 on Feb 22, 2017 0:00:15 GMT
They had uses before?  I mean I never use companions unless in higher difficulties. Which begs the question, is the AI enough for that? I'm feeling like a hard no. It was nice to be able to panic charge my way out of a situation and set up a BE by tapping a teammates ability while doing it Now I have to rely on AI? They couldn't get AI to figure out left from right in DAI or when to use their abilities. But now I'm supposed to play insanity while hoping the AI knows what I'm thinking? |
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Post by ATR16 on Feb 22, 2017 0:03:07 GMT
So much negativity. For all you know, they might do exactly what they should: Get rid of shields if an enemy is shielded and they have the ability to do so. Get rid of armor if an enemy is armored and they have the ability to do so. Detonate if target is primed and they have the ability to do so. Prime unprotected enemies and they have the ability to do so. Shoot at shit. That doesn't even sound that hard and is kinda what the AI in DA:I did already. Except programming intelligent AI like this that also can calculate for the players position and play habits is essentially impossible. |
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Feb 22, 2017 0:07:53 GMT
Just order them to attack different targets that there is no way they alone can solo and let them fall. Then you can go solo... that is what I am going to do. I did that for ME3. I used t'soni and edibot for the whole game. I had them move towards a bunch of enemies to be killed. It was a very funny playthrough. The best part is that they were killed for good when Harbinger vaporized them. excellent Finally justice for Joker. No longer will he always be on the receiving end of her quips... |
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 22, 2017 0:15:03 GMT
It sounds like this is one of the things they'll go over in this weeks Gameplay video. So we'll know for sure soon, on what kind of effects this will have on the gameplay.
All I know is the only times I ever needed to manually input power commands to my squadmates, was for Insanity playthroughs.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 0:17:35 GMT
Hopefully the AI is smart and companions have something in their code that makes them recognize that a target is primed for a combo, and they'll then use the appropriate ability to trigger it.
Otherwise, this change is really going to blow.
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Post by ATR16 on Feb 22, 2017 0:20:36 GMT
Hopefully the AI is smart and companions have something in their code that makes them recognize that a target is primed for combo, and they'll then use the appropriate ability to trigger it. Otherwise, this change is really going to blow. What about when I want a target just primed and left alone? Or when I want to use a detonation ability just for a panic stun? Even a gameplay video of them showing it off isn't going to do the trick here. I want to see some non-Bioware influencer who has the game take this choice for a rip and see if it works or just miserably fails. I just wish I could find out which person it was convinced the team to fix things that weren't broken. But then I might be sold snake oil or an anti-tiger rock. |
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Post by Psychevore on Feb 22, 2017 0:32:36 GMT
So much negativity. For all you know, they might do exactly what they should: Get rid of shields if an enemy is shielded and they have the ability to do so. Get rid of armor if an enemy is armored and they have the ability to do so. Detonate if target is primed and they have the ability to do so. Prime unprotected enemies and they have the ability to do so. Shoot at shit. That doesn't even sound that hard and is kinda what the AI in DA:I did already. Except programming intelligent AI like this that also can calculate for the players position and play habits is essentially impossible. None of that requires knowing the player's position, nor habits. |
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 22, 2017 0:42:53 GMT
In ME1, Liara has Singularity, and as a soldier I did not. Singularity, and Pull, on a Geth Armature, is hilarious and if you haven't done it, you haven't really played the game I call Mass Effect. Your loss. It's not hilarious when the AI does it? |
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 22, 2017 0:56:08 GMT
Finally justice for Joker. No longer will he always be on the receiving end of her quips... As long as he picked Destroy, that is. EDI doesn't need her mobile platform to snark. |
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 22, 2017 0:58:02 GMT
It's entirely possible this is a decision the devs made, based purely on balance. We have to remember that global cooldown was removed. Imagine how much easier ME3 would have been if you and both your squadmates could constantly hammer an enemy with your powers.
Imagine a Banshee rolls up, and within 5 seconds your party hits it with a couple warps, some grenades, incinerate, and maybe a concussive round for a little extra kick.
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Post by crashsuit on Feb 22, 2017 0:58:24 GMT
They had uses before? Yeah, they're called "romance scenes" |
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Post by amoebae on Feb 22, 2017 1:02:39 GMT
It's entirely possible this is a decision the devs made, based purely on balance. We have to remember that global cooldown was removed. Imagine how much easier ME3 would have been if you and both your squadmates could constantly hammer an enemy with your powers. Imagine a Banshee rolls up, and within 5 seconds your party hits it with a couple warps, some grenades, incinerate, and maybe a concussive round for a little extra kick. It's worth remembering that cooldowns have also been made longer in MEA. Think around the longest un-upgraded cooldowns in ME3 - but for everything (or so is my understanding). It's going to make it all the more painful when your squad mate fires off something they shouldn't have against a really weak enemy and then the boss appears. |
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 22, 2017 1:05:44 GMT
You can see a cooldown next to either Squad mates's icon in the combat video. This will let you know when they are primed to do a combo again. It also shows real time their status of being hit/injured. Instead of saying attack or fallback, it may just be limited to promoting the squadmate to attack or perform the ability and/or initiate a combo. I would press left on the dpad for cora and right on the dpad for Liam. They will intelligently act based on their abilities and initiate a combo if you have primed for one before hitting left or right. The combo system also works better bc They won't just use abilities for no reason. They will hopefully intelligently prime you for combos as well. Again, I like this because you can still give commands to act, but they will choose the appropriate action/ability based on the scenario. This requires you, a the player, to get to know you squad's capabilities better and master each situation. I seen the icon spot next to the companion portrait, but only seen it displaying a reticle that i believe signals that the character is still locked onto a commanded target. Did you see an ability cooling down in that section? Look at 4:15 of the video. There are two symbols above the mech which I think signify a combo is possibly on that target. I don't know if we manually initiate this to this specific target, but it's definitely part of the squad control. I was thinking the reticle means an action is available. regardless there will be some way to signify a squad action is available. I think it's all going to situational though, and we will adapt to handling situations differently with each character. |
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Post by ATR16 on Feb 22, 2017 1:08:15 GMT
Except programming intelligent AI like this that also can calculate for the players position and play habits is essentially impossible. None of that requires knowing the player's position, nor habits. How doesn't it? What if I'm in a sticky situation and need a panic overload/stun/stagger move to buy me the time to run to cover? Or what if I don't want a power detonated and would rather the DOT/weakening stay in effect on a target? What if I want a target hit with an ability but the AI decides its a better idea to shoot it? Or use the ability I don't want used? Programming competent AI isn't easy. Let alone one with any sophistication. |
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 22, 2017 1:12:33 GMT
I seen the icon spot next to the companion portrait, but only seen it displaying a reticle that i believe signals that the character is still locked onto a commanded target. Did you see an ability cooling down in that section? Look at 4:15 of the video. There are two symbols above the mech which I think signify a combo is possibly on that target. I don't know if we manually initiate this to this specific target, but it's definitely part of the squad control. I was thinking the reticle means an action is available. regardless there will be some way to signify a squad action is available. I think it's all going to situational though, and we will adapt to handling situations differently with each character. I was thinking those were portraits only above the mech so you can tell who's tagged on it should you want to split them up |
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