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Post by corkyspetals on Feb 28, 2017 17:55:30 GMT
Ninjamances shouldn't happen, and neither should '' character suddenly expresses interest in the same sex after 2 games. '' If the ME team thinks that the criticism/hate they got for Kaidan is a sign for their playerbase not wanting to spend money cuz of gay content, then I feel that's completely wrong. And don't blame '' str8 males '' if BW fucks up with this game when it comes to gay content. That just means that the higher ups were chicken shits and were afraid of backlash, and that they aren't confident enough in their game that such content could be overlooked by your average straight male gamer. I can't completely disagree with you.
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Post by Kian on Feb 28, 2017 17:55:31 GMT
Sorry gang, I tried... Oh, you guys. This thread. This poor, poor thread. It's like it got ran over mercilessly with no warning by a semi driven by Neil Pollner himself. And now, it tries to put itself back together. I applaud those who remain optimistic and grieve with those who are hella frustrated and saddened with BioWare. At this point it is so blantantly obvious what's going on. It really isn't right. I don't care what story BioWare tells itself to justify it, but it's wrong. When I played Mass Effect 1 as an awkward teen in 2007 and up through ME3, I looked up to BioWare as being progressive- where it openly celebrated its gay characters. I thought things were turning in the gaming industry because developers were willing to the spearhead to that change. Now, they pander to straight men who get butthurt easily and willingly throw loyal fans under the bus for it. It hurts dude. But maybe, just maybe, something beyond incredible lies waiting to be discovered on the 21st. This will probably ring true for a lot of people. And it's heartbreaking. But there's always the Dragon Age team. And if the next game will be on the same path as this one, I for one will seriously reconsider my "bioware fan boy" status. Bioware games have always been a spectacle of bugs and errors, which I could easily dismiss because I love the story telling, the characters and the rpg elements. And maybe above all else, probably the first ever triple a developer to be inclusive and make me happy because of playing gay characters. They are moving away from the rpg elements. The bugs and errors are more or less just as bad as ever. And now they seem to be moving away from inclusivity towards gay baiting. So basically 3/4 of the big issues that mattered to me when it came to Bioware and their games are more or less gone or going. There's a lot of good will one can get for past deeds. But not endless. So eventually I'll just take my pink dollar, clearly unwanted, and move along.
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Post by Artemis on Feb 28, 2017 18:00:55 GMT
On the brightside, we can always count on fanfic, if the game doesn't give us the kind of gay content we want. Let me tell you about a fandom that just doesn't do slash fandom: BIOWARE
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 28, 2017 18:02:23 GMT
On the brightside, we can always count on fanfic, if the game doesn't give us the kind of gay content we want. Let me tell you about a fandom that just doesn't do slash fandom: BIOWAREYou obviously haven't been on Archive of Our Own, then.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 18:03:45 GMT
Ninjamances shouldn't happen, and neither should '' character suddenly expresses interest in the same sex after 2 games. '' If the ME team thinks that the criticism/hate they got for Kaidan is a sign for their playerbase not wanting to spend money cuz of gay content, then I feel that's completely wrong. And don't blame '' str8 males '' if BW fucks up with this game when it comes to gay content. That just means that the higher ups were chicken shits and were afraid of backlash, and that they aren't confident enough in their game that such content could be overlooked by your average straight male gamer. It's worth mentioning that even IF that is how Bioware/EA marketing are playing it, if the content itself is present and solid, my angst over marketing will be pretty much entirely ameliorated. If I have a few well-written options, I will be very content, regardless of which characters were or were not shown in the run-up to release. I guess I just let myself get irrationally invested in this aspect. I won't bore with the details, but Bioware and their games were there for me at a pretty bad time when I was younger. Finding out about Sky being a m/m option in Jade Empire (talk about hiding your gays! ) was really neat. Here was a company that cared enough to provide options for people like me to more thoroughly enjoy their games, even if they did face some backlash. Bioware makes a far greater effort than most in this industry on that front. It was nice and very comforting in those days to know that people did care about what I thought or wanted. And since then, they have been mostly on a good course toward greater and greater numbers of choices for nearly all their players. I just don't want MEA to be a step backward.
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Post by Artemis on Feb 28, 2017 18:09:52 GMT
Let me tell you about a fandom that just doesn't do slash fandom: BIOWAREYou obviously haven't been on Archive of Our Own, then. Oh I have. I'm all over it. (See link below ) I tried to find others who shared my passions. They just... didn't exist. I even tried to start a BioWare Slash tumblr. A few people signed up to follow but no one submitted. I finally quit it. My slash fics get... hardly any response, whatsover. And okay maybe I'm not a great writer? But I'm okay, I mean, I think. And I go to look for other fics with these pairings and like... there's hardly anything there at all. Maybe a couple pages of results. And most of them explicit porn >.< So like if you're into Solas x m!Lavellan it's just probably a fetish or something. Which I'm fine with; you do you, but it's depressing. EDIT: Not to mention the comments I've gotten from non-slash fans about how "gross" and "wrong" it is. And I've never gotten that from any other fandom.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 28, 2017 18:13:07 GMT
You obviously haven't been on Archive of Our Own, then. Oh I have. I'm all over it. (See link below ) I tried to find others who shared my passions. They just... didn't exist. I even tried to start a BioWare Slash tumblr. A few people signed up to follow but no one submitted. I finally quit it. My slash fics get... hardly any response, whatsover. And okay maybe I'm not a great writer? But I'm okay, I mean, I think. And I go to look for other fics with these pairings and like... there's hardly anything there at all. Maybe a couple pages of results. And most of them explicit porn >.< So like if you're into Solas x m!Lavellan it's just probably a fetish or something. Which I'm fine with; you do you, but it's depressing. EDIT: Not to mention the comments I've gotten from non-slash fans about how "gross" and "wrong" it is. And I've never gotten that from any other fandom. That's awful. -hugs- Besides the horrid content of those comments, they shouldn't have commented anyways, if they're not into slash. Like, what were they expecting, for the slash fic to turn out to be het all along?
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Post by Artemis on Feb 28, 2017 18:16:18 GMT
Oh I have. I'm all over it. (See link below ) I tried to find others who shared my passions. They just... didn't exist. I even tried to start a BioWare Slash tumblr. A few people signed up to follow but no one submitted. I finally quit it. My slash fics get... hardly any response, whatsover. And okay maybe I'm not a great writer? But I'm okay, I mean, I think. And I go to look for other fics with these pairings and like... there's hardly anything there at all. Maybe a couple pages of results. And most of them explicit porn >.< So like if you're into Solas x m!Lavellan it's just probably a fetish or something. Which I'm fine with; you do you, but it's depressing. EDIT: Not to mention the comments I've gotten from non-slash fans about how "gross" and "wrong" it is. And I've never gotten that from any other fandom. That's awful. -hugs- Besides the horrid content of those comments, they shouldn't have commented anyways, if they're not into slash. Like, what were they expecting, for the slash fic to turn out to be het all along? no, it's just people's response in general when they realize you like a slash pairing. I've gotten anonymous tumblr messages "You're sick for liking that" and such. I've turned anon off because it was so disheartening. I mean I could understand (to some degree) if you're into writing, say, female inquisitor x Dorian. Personally I think, hey, that's your fanfic and your little headcanon, so fine, go for it, but I can understand people being outraged. (Still, don't send them hateful stuff.) But being in love with Cullen x m!IQ or Solas x m!IQ? Makes me sick? How? Why? Urgh.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 28, 2017 18:18:27 GMT
That's awful. -hugs- Besides the horrid content of those comments, they shouldn't have commented anyways, if they're not into slash. Like, what were they expecting, for the slash fic to turn out to be het all along? no, it's just people's response in general when they realize you like a slash pairing. I've gotten anonymous tumblr messages "You're sick for liking that" and such. I've turned anon off because it was so disheartening. I mean I could understand (to some degree) if you're into writing, say, female inquisitor x Dorian. Personally I think, hey, that's your fanfic and your little headcanon, so fine, go for it, but I can understand people being outraged. (Still, don't send them hateful stuff.) But being in love with Cullen x m!IQ or Solas x m!IQ? Makes me sick? How? Why? Urgh. It sucks how, even though we've come a long way, there's still people like that. Even people who don't outright say it's gross still find the idea of slash "hilarious" rather than... you know, plausible.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 18:25:39 GMT
So.......how about that Gil, huh? My gut on this is that he'll be introduced in game fairly early. There will likely be the ability to wander the ship between waking from cryo and going on your first mission with Liam where your shuttle crashes. So I bet that we'll get a chance to meet him then. I know that it's pure speculation, but I have a gut feeling that he's going to be the "him" that the dev was talking about. Everything we've heard about him (not much, granted) is good. He's handsome and he's got a great sense of humor. Those are positives. And, as someone else pointed out, if this ends up being a new trilogy, the fact that he's an engineer could open him up to being a squadmate in a future installment. Okay, I know that's all Pollyanna and stuff, but I'm trying to keep the thread positive so that we don't have multiple Eeyore-esque "woe is us" threads happening. Also, remember that Bioware is an amazingly responsive developer for LGBT issues when compared to the industry. The ME team isn't the best (and they've never been), but they shouldn't drag down the love that we have (and should have) for the DA team.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Feb 28, 2017 18:27:37 GMT
I don't care what BioWare's intent was. I actually liked the Kaidan romance MORE because he was only available in ME3. It made the arc all the sweeter.
People really gave them hate for it? It's a video game for crying out loud you can just assume that Kaidan was too shy to flirt with male Shepard because he's a 30 year old inexperienced bottom.
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Post by twalicious on Feb 28, 2017 18:29:04 GMT
Ugh. How disappointing. I'm going back to bed
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Post by ruffian on Feb 28, 2017 18:29:42 GMT
I'm expecting him to be kind of geeky and awkward. But maybe that's just me buying into stereotypes of engineers
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Feb 28, 2017 18:30:31 GMT
I'm expecting him to be kind of geeky and awkward. But maybe that's just me buying into stereotypes of engineers Geeky? Perhaps. Awkward? Not all of us
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 28, 2017 18:32:47 GMT
So.......how about that Gil, huh? My gut on this is that he'll be introduced in game fairly early. There will likely be the ability to wander the ship between waking from cryo and going on your first mission with Liam where your shuttle crashes. So I bet that we'll get a chance to meet him then. I know that it's pure speculation, but I have a gut feeling that he's going to be the "him" that the dev was talking about. Everything we've heard about him (not much, granted) is good. He's handsome and he's got a great sense of humor. Those are positives. And, as someone else pointed out, if this ends up being a new trilogy, the fact that he's an engineer could open him up to being a squadmate in a future installment. Okay, I know that's all Pollyanna and stuff, but I'm trying to keep the thread positive so that we don't have multiple Eeyore-esque "woe is us" threads happening. Also, remember that Bioware is an amazingly responsive developer for LGBT issues when compared to the industry. The ME team isn't the best (and they've never been), but they shouldn't drag down the love that we have (and should have) for the DA team. I think there's a good chance he's the first m/m option we meet, too. Maybe he could even be one of the first male options you can flirt with?
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Post by jrpN7 on Feb 28, 2017 18:36:28 GMT
I don't care what BioWare's intent was. I actually liked the Kaidan romance MORE because he was only available in ME3. It made the arc all the sweeter. People really gave them hate for it? It's a video game for crying out loud you can just assume that Kaidan was too shy to flirt with male Shepard because he's a 30 year old inexperienced bottom. That's how I saw it! I was more annoyed by Kaidan's lack of frequent appearance in ME2 than not being romancable in ME1 or ME2. I just saw it as Kaidan being so deeply into Shepard that he was way and extremely shy in ME1 to approach him and in ME2 was devastated by Shepard's death and his heart was having a shocked meltdown at his revival. ME3 Kaidan realized it was now or never and got the courage to finally ask Shepard out to the cafe. I thought it was really good overall- a nice save on BioWare's part.
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Post by Artemis on Feb 28, 2017 18:36:55 GMT
no, it's just people's response in general when they realize you like a slash pairing. I've gotten anonymous tumblr messages "You're sick for liking that" and such. I've turned anon off because it was so disheartening. I mean I could understand (to some degree) if you're into writing, say, female inquisitor x Dorian. Personally I think, hey, that's your fanfic and your little headcanon, so fine, go for it, but I can understand people being outraged. (Still, don't send them hateful stuff.) But being in love with Cullen x m!IQ or Solas x m!IQ? Makes me sick? How? Why? Urgh. It sucks how, even though we've come a long way, there's still people like that. Even people who don't outright say it's gross still find the idea of slash "hilarious" rather than... you know, plausible. Hmmm. With this fandom, I'd say it's more like a legion of straight women who tote themselves as "allies" and then get super duper SJW (in general mocking progressives with that term is laughable but this is like a neo-SJW if you will) because they're sooooo against protecting people's (i.e. characters') sexuality that if you change it, even straight characters, even via a mod or fanfic, then you're sick and somehow a homophobe? Or something. It's all related to the backlash against the f/f Cass mod. That made no sense on the surface, but once you dig a little deeper, you start to realize where these crazies are coming from. And sorry this conversation isn't super Gil-relevant, but it's more related to the options that will be available to m/m player characters, and what to do if you're displeased with those options. In my experience, turning to fanfiction just isn't enough. So here's hoping Gil is gay AND he's a fucking amazing character.
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Post by corkyspetals on Feb 28, 2017 18:37:36 GMT
I don't care what BioWare's intent was. I actually liked the Kaidan romance MORE because he was only available in ME3. It made the arc all the sweeter. People really gave them hate for it? It's a video game for crying out loud you can just assume that Kaidan was too shy to flirt with male Shepard because he's a 30 year old inexperienced bottom. This is kind of exactly my experience with Kaidan.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 28, 2017 18:39:26 GMT
It sucks how, even though we've come a long way, there's still people like that. Even people who don't outright say it's gross still find the idea of slash "hilarious" rather than... you know, plausible. Hmmm. With this fandom, I'd say it's more like a legion of straight women who tote themselves as "allies" and then get super duper SJW (in general mocking progressives with that term is laughable but this is like a neo-SJW if you will) because they're sooooo against protecting people's (i.e. characters') sexuality that if you change it, even straight characters, even via a mod or fanfic, then you're sick and somehow a homophobe? Or something. It's all related to the backlash against the f/f Cass mod. That made no sense on the surface, but once you dig a little deeper, you start to realize where these crazies are coming from. And sorry this conversation isn't super Gil-relevant, but it's more related to the options that will be available to m/m player characters, and what to do if you're displeased with those options. In my experience, turning to fanfiction just isn't enough. So here's hoping Gil is gay AND he's a fucking amazing character. Nah, I getcha. I've seen people in fandom use "social justice" as an excuse to be outright homophobic before. I hope Gil and Reyes are both amazing, and that Bioware wisens up and gives us a gay/bi male squadmate.
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Post by jjdxb on Feb 28, 2017 18:47:12 GMT
I'm expecting him to be kind of geeky and awkward. But maybe that's just me buying into stereotypes of engineers That depends where you source your engineers. In the UK, Civil and Mechanical Engineering are very "laddy". Less so Aerospace and Electrical.
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Post by Suaimhneas on Feb 28, 2017 18:53:35 GMT
So, you guys think his VA might also be his face model? Bioware plz
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 28, 2017 18:55:39 GMT
Not too hot and bothered about the face of the VA. But a beard is always good, I love beards.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 19:07:44 GMT
Sigh...Every day I wake up with hope in my bruised heart that there will be good news. We are still in the desert my fellows. The thirst is real!
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Post by mrjack on Feb 28, 2017 19:22:07 GMT
Okay, I know that's all Pollyanna and stuff, but I'm trying to keep the thread positive so that we don't have multiple Eeyore-esque "woe is us" threads happening. Also, remember that Bioware is an amazingly responsive developer for LGBT issues when compared to the industry. The ME team isn't the best (and they've never been), but they shouldn't drag down the love that we have (and should have) for the DA team. Sorry for contributing to the negativity. I've been waiting 5 years for this game and now that it's finally here I just feel numb. I think I need to take a mood stabiliser or something. I even googled "anticipation exhaustion" to see if it was a thing (it isn't) where you get so hyped for something that you use up all your emotional energy and you end up with no fucks left to give about something you should be doing cartwheels over. It happens to me when I go on holiday too. All that fun looking at online brochures, getting excited all year long and then on the day of the trip, I don't feel anything except a little annoyed about air travel. All my friends are getting drunk on the plane and I just want to go back to bed. It isn't until I wake up on that first morning and walk down to the beach and feel the sand at my feet and smell the sea in the air that I finally let out a sigh of relief and actually start enjoying myself. Hopefully MEA will be like that sandy beach for me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 19:27:51 GMT
Sorry for contributing to the negativity. I've been waiting 5 years for this game and now that it's finally here I just feel numb. I think I need to take a mood stabiliser or something. I even googled "anticipation exhaustion" to see if it was a thing (it isn't) where you get so hyped for something that you use up all your emotional energy and you end up with no fucks left to give about something you should be doing cartwheels over. It happens to me when I go on holiday too. All that fun looking at online brochures, getting excited all year long and then on the day of the trip, I don't feel anything except a little annoyed about air travel. All my friends are getting drunk on the plane and I just want to go back to bed. It isn't until I wake up on that first morning and walk down to the beach and feel the sand at my feet and smell the sea in the air that I finally let out a sigh of relief and actually start enjoying myself. Hopefully MEA will be like that sandy beach for me. Hey man, you don't need to apologize to me. I'm just a guy who's trying to keep cool. Maybe trying to keep it positive is my own defense mechanism. If we skew to negative, I'll join right in and then sink into my own "anticipation exhaustion" (it should totally be a thing!). I hear you. I'm nervous and excited and anxious about this game. And we still have 16 more days until EA early access.
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