Gil Brodie - Chief Engineer (Official Thread)

Oh my god that Reyes scene, it's like they are trying to eat each other's face. 

I've read a lot of stories of how these games have saved lifes of young lgbtq people to know how important is having a way to escape from reality. Demanding fair content in a game may be seem trivial, but for some of us it's really important. Maybe not for you, but it's not a reason to spit in the face of those who want fair treatment.

Okay, personal anecdote time: Jade Empire was my first experience playing a male character who could romance another man. I was eighteen, still struggling with accepting my sexuality. Playing the Spirit Monk/Sky romance told me, plainly, that I was accepted. That I could be loved. That the feelings I had for other guys were not wrong, were okay. That my feelings for other guys were natural. That I deserved to find love. This was 2006, there was acceptance happening, gay characters beginning to appear in the mainstream, even if in smaller numbers than today. But the important thing wasn't just that I was seeing two gay men together on screen, but that I was seeing a character I invested myself in, made as a reflection of myself, find that love and acceptance.

'Most important thing ever'? Maybe not in some grand scheme. But to a gay person in need of that life preserver? It absolutely is.

I doubt people here think equal representation and romance options are the most important thing ever. We all have different fights, different priorities, and different ways to express them.

I do not see the need to diminish how people have been fighting for equal romance options and representation like some users recently did. Lack of lgbt romance options and lgbt representation are parts of the problems and advocating for solutions to that should be welcomed.

K I feel pretty bad for this continued tangent, so here's an actual relevant question.

Do you think there's a probability that the romance will be expanded in DLC or do you think MEA won't even get some?

I'm kinda hoping we get to see what's gonna happen down the line

True that. Pointing out the problematic aspects of portrayal of lgbt characters are important, in my view, especially when it is done by a game company that has an arguably better track record than the rest. Because if such company like Bioware gets it wrong, what could we expect from some other companies out there lol?

And in the Gil and Jill case, it is not difficult to understand why pressure the only gay man in the game to have a baby (when in the game it is proven to be unnecessary) is very close to homophobia. I could not understand how the author failed to realize this. But since the author did not, I support people pointing this out to Bioware. Perhaps they could learn from it.

I hope in the future that they do away with Jill and the duty to procreate stuff. Hell if they plan to continue with this, I would rather have them not include Gil at all, rather than deal with another homophobic subplot for the second time.

Not sure if this is already posted, but there is a mod that improves or changes Gil's stubble by Nightscrawl.

One way to resolve this in the next game is that to give choice to players what to do with Jill. If you agree with Jill, you can have the baby and let her take care of it. If you disagree with Jill, she leaves and you never see her again (and your baby is taken care by someone else). Both groups can be happy with their decision.

Once they fix this, I would love to see Gil have more impact to the story and his romance more related and connected to the story, e.g. upgrading him (and Suvi) to the adviser romance level in DA:I.

I don't like Jill. I don't liker her involvement in the romance. I don't choose the baby option, so it's not something I'm invested in.

That said, neither of those take into consideration the way it is portrayed in the game. It is HER baby too. She asks Gil (and optionally Scott) to be the father(s) of HER baby. There is no "let her take care of it." To expect that she would just say, "You can have it, bye," is just not reasonable. If you choose the baby option, she WILL be involved.

I'm not a fan of killing her off just for its own sake, like some are, but the only reasonable -- and least complicated -- way to have the baby without Jill's involvement would be to have her die in some way. You can't just take someone's baby away without cause. They're not going to do a thing in the game where you take her to family court and say that she's an unfit mother because she's homophobic and have the baby taken away. It's not going to happen.

I think you misunderstand me when I said "let her take care of it." What I meant is that Gil would be still on board the Tempest and the baby is with Jill rather than being on the Tempest. So the first way makes sense.

Yes, the second way implies that Jill, for some reasons, gives me and Gil the baby. And yes I left out how that is going to happen. There are ways to do this, including having Jill dead, which I am completely fine with. There are other causes that would allow me to take the baby, but I leave the details out because those would probably upset people.

My point was that you have to consider how likely it is that they would actually write that scenario into the game. I don't think it is likely at all.


Aside from everything else, I think the whole baby thing is dumb, and for the reason that the whole Old God Baby is dumb. Having a character, especially the PC, become a parent is a commitment. Not only is it a commitment for the characters, but it is a commitment for the writers of those characters. It is perhaps the ultimate writing oneself into a corner. Once that choice is made, everything else about those characters has to take the baby into consideration.

In the next game (if there is one), if you choose to have the baby, a portion of Gil's word budget would be taken up with baby stuff, telling us where it is, perhaps lame "I never expected it to be like this" anecdotes, and so on. Ugh... I'm practically nauseous just thinking about it.

It never should have been in the game. If it absolutely had to be, it should have been relegated to something akin to Trespasser DLC.

That's true. That's not likely to happen at all. What is more likely (and is the one I hate to see) is that they will sideline Gil in the next game, move him off the Tempest and have him take care of the baby with Jill. 

Sigh.. as you said, the baby thing was a mistake.