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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 11:28:01 GMT
Sorry OP but you can't just dismiss negative reviews and accept only the positive ones. Just as much as one shouldn't just dismiss the positive ones and adopt only the negative ones. In this case, even the negative reviews have not been all that negative... so, it's down to people ignoring any positive comment made by a reviewer within a single review and only paying attention to the few negatives they mention... and then trying to chastise people here for actually listening to the entire review and gleaning both the positives and the negatives from it.
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Post by lgp22 on Feb 26, 2017 12:13:37 GMT
Did anyone actually ever take "gaming critics" seriously, to begin with? I found out a long time ago they generally know less about the games they are playing than I do. If someone is actually foolish enough to buy a game based off of some "professional review site," that's on them. The only review and opinion that matters when it comes to gaming is my own. I'll judge the game for myself, thanks. Honest question, Does this mean you also didn't take these "gaming critics" serious when they voted Dragon Age Inquisition game of the year??
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Feb 26, 2017 12:55:23 GMT
But I do find it laughable how nobody is pointing out PC Gamer, one site that was the most negative. And while they also mentioned sub-par facial animations, their real concern was an unconvincing and somewhat weak villain introduction Thats actually a very valid concern unlike the "ugly face animation" horde we get all over BSN. Weak villain is a major reason why I haven't really been able to get into Pillars of Eternity for example, or why DA2 felt so fractured and all over the place. I want something that I'm afraid of, not something that I don't know what the hell they want from me and I feel like I can crush them like a bug.
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Post by azarhal on Feb 26, 2017 13:30:49 GMT
But I do find it laughable how nobody is pointing out PC Gamer, one site that was the most negative. And while they also mentioned sub-par facial animations, their real concern was an unconvincing and somewhat weak villain introduction Thats actually a very valid concern unlike the "ugly face animation" horde we get all over BSN. Weak villain is a major reason why I haven't really been able to get into Pillars of Eternity for example, or why DA2 felt so fractured and all over the place. I want something that I'm afraid of, not something that I don't know what the hell they want from me and I feel like I can crush them like a bug. Villains aren't required for plots, not everything needs to be an Hero's Journey. Pillars of Eternity plot is about discovering secrets that some wish would stay hidden. It's a philosophical plot. MEA plot is about a colonization and exploration, which pretty much makes Ryder/AI the villains. Only imperialists who believe everything they see belongs to them consider going around murdering natives and wildlife to take over their planets makes them the good guy and the natives the villains.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 14:17:02 GMT
But I do find it laughable how nobody is pointing out PC Gamer, one site that was the most negative. And while they also mentioned sub-par facial animations, their real concern was an unconvincing and somewhat weak villain introduction Thats actually a very valid concern unlike the "ugly face animation" horde we get all over BSN. Weak villain is a major reason why I haven't really been able to get into Pillars of Eternity for example, or why DA2 felt so fractured and all over the place. I want something that I'm afraid of, not something that I don't know what the hell they want from me and I feel like I can crush them like a bug. What I'm reading out of that is that Andy had a first-contact scenario already built up in his own mind and the game didn't use that particular scenario, so he was disappointed. This is what happens when people try to decipher a story before reading the book... self-fulfilling prophesy. Sure, keep it on the list of concerns; but I wouldn't be overtly condemning the game over it yet. Criticisms about the story, IMO, really should wait until the entire story is readable. What is normally expected in a game opening is a tutorial on how to use the basic controls. I suppose an alternative would be open with Ryder shooting at a bunch of other humans on the Ark... but I doubt that would have gone down well with far more of the fans that a "minor" skirmish with one of the new alien species on the block. There is still 40 or so hours of game for them to develop the Kett into something to be feared. I find it interesting that he mentions meeting the Vulcan in First Contact as a comparison... Star Trek had been talking about that first contact through several series by then and it even came right at the end of that particular movie. The villain introduction in that movie was the skirmish with the Borg that caused Enterprise to chase them back in time.
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Post by Arcian on Feb 26, 2017 14:46:13 GMT
Sorry OP but you can't just dismiss negative reviews and accept only the positive ones. Just as much as one shouldn't just dismiss the positive ones and adopt only the negative ones. In this case, even the negative reviews have not been all that negative... so, it's down to people ignoring any positive comment made by a reviewer within a single review and only paying attention to the few negatives they mention... and then trying to chastise people here for actually listening to the entire review and gleaning both the positives and the negatives from it. I literally said in a post below that people need to accept all reviews, not just negative or positive. I will reiterate what I said then - cherrypicking is the death of objective analysis.
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Post by drclawixp on Feb 26, 2017 15:22:22 GMT
They're not really reviews though. The game just went gold so the review copies either just went out or are going out within the week. They don't really say how old the versions are that they're playing.
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Post by SofNascimento on Feb 26, 2017 15:27:26 GMT
Just as much as one shouldn't just dismiss the positive ones and adopt only the negative ones. In this case, even the negative reviews have not been all that negative... so, it's down to people ignoring any positive comment made by a reviewer within a single review and only paying attention to the few negatives they mention... and then trying to chastise people here for actually listening to the entire review and gleaning both the positives and the negatives from it. I literally said in a post below that people need to accept all reviews, not just negative or positive. I will reiterate what I said then - cherrypicking is the death of objective analysis. And you can see a ton of that in this thread. It's incredible how it's the same thing with movies and other stuff. If someone says he didn't like something it's not because he didn't like, it's because he doesn't get it, or is stupid, or has no idea what he is talking about, or is biased and so on.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 15:47:43 GMT
Just as much as one shouldn't just dismiss the positive ones and adopt only the negative ones. In this case, even the negative reviews have not been all that negative... so, it's down to people ignoring any positive comment made by a reviewer within a single review and only paying attention to the few negatives they mention... and then trying to chastise people here for actually listening to the entire review and gleaning both the positives and the negatives from it. I literally said in a post below that people need to accept all reviews, not just negative or positive. I will reiterate what I said then - cherrypicking is the death of objective analysis. You did say that... in a subsequent post only after another poster had already queried you out on it. It was not in the post that I responded to and I had not read the subsequent exchange when I typed the post you quoted above. Prior to your first post, the OP had also tried to explain that their comments were directed towards people who had been "literally freaking out" about some of the negative comments in these reviews. As I said, even the most negative of these reviews do have some positive comments in them as well. It's not just cherry-picking overall reviews... it has been cherry-picking little comments within each review. Even with the PC Gamer review being mentioned in the post above yours, which brings up a lot of negative points and is probably one of the most negative I have read so far, the reviewer indicates near the bottom that he still can't wait to get his hands on the game. That final conclusion means that his overall review of it is not particularly damning. He's still seeing enough good in it to make him still want to play the game. In my experience, when journalists decide to pan something, they generally pan it outright. www.pcgamer.com/making-first-contact-in-mass-effect-andromedas-opening-mission/
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 16:23:22 GMT
I literally said in a post below that people need to accept all reviews, not just negative or positive. I will reiterate what I said then - cherrypicking is the death of objective analysis. And you can see a ton of that in this thread. It's incredible how it's the same thing with movies and other stuff. If someone says he didn't like something it's not because he didn't like, it's because he doesn't get it, or is stupid, or has no idea what he is talking about, or is biased and so on. What most of these reviews are saying, however, is that they didn't like this or that specific thing AND that, in conclusion they still liked what they saw overall. Still, you don't seem to want to read that far into them. You're taking the most negative comment you can find in the entire article and hanging the whole game on the virtue of that single comment... and have even refused to acknowledge any qualifiers to the statement the reviewer herself put into the review... and then you condemn every poster here who happens to disagree with your slanted assessment of the reviews themselves. I know a "mixed review" when I read one... and these reviews at worst are mixed. Some are quite positive, some are somewhat negative... but none are overwhelmingly negative.
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Post by SofNascimento on Feb 26, 2017 16:31:05 GMT
And you can see a ton of that in this thread. It's incredible how it's the same thing with movies and other stuff. If someone says he didn't like something it's not because he didn't like, it's because he doesn't get it, or is stupid, or has no idea what he is talking about, or is biased and so on. You're taking the most negative comment you can find in the entire article and hanging the whole game on the virtue of that single comment... and have even refused to acknowledge any qualifiers to the statement the reviewer herself put into the review... and then you condemn every poster here who happens to disagree with your slanted assessment of the reviews themselves. Am I doing that? How so? All I've said is that one shouldn't dismiss opinions they don't like.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Feb 26, 2017 16:32:13 GMT
Thats actually a very valid concern unlike the "ugly face animation" horde we get all over BSN. Weak villain is a major reason why I haven't really been able to get into Pillars of Eternity for example, or why DA2 felt so fractured and all over the place. I want something that I'm afraid of, not something that I don't know what the hell they want from me and I feel like I can crush them like a bug. Villains aren't required for plots, not everything needs to be an Hero's Journey. Pillars of Eternity plot is about discovering secrets that some wish would stay hidden. It's a philosophical plot. MEA plot is about a colonization and exploration, which pretty much makes Ryder/AI the villains. Only imperialists who believe everything they see belongs to them consider going around murdering natives and wildlife to take over their planets makes them the good guy and the natives the villains. While I agree that not everything needs to be a Hero's journey, this is a video game where you fight off an opponent so some adversary is required to keep things engaging. This doesn't have to be a person or an organization per se, it can be for example wildlife or environment for example where you need to survive, there needs to be some sort of struggle. If it is a force that is stronger than me and it can relate to me it will keep me engaged. In multiplayer games like Overwatch my opponents are the people I play against, they have a clear goal (most of the time) and they provide a significant challenge. In PoE, its true that the Leaden Key keeps secrets, but they don't relate to me in form. In PoE I just stumbled upon their machines, from there on they just appear at random times trying to kill me, and most of the time doing a crappy job at that. Thaos's motives are very vague up until the very end game as well. I have more trouble facing Banshees and Adrogans than his lackies. 100k people in 5 big ships that don't even land in the same place aren't much of a planetary invasion force, are they? Also, know the entire plot before jumping to conclusions like this.
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Post by bshep on Feb 26, 2017 16:33:39 GMT
And you can see a ton of that in this thread. It's incredible how it's the same thing with movies and other stuff. If someone says he didn't like something it's not because he didn't like, it's because he doesn't get it, or is stupid, or has no idea what he is talking about, or is biased and so on. What most of these reviews are saying, however, is that they didn't like this or that specific thing AND that, in conclusion they still liked what they saw overall. Still, you don't seem to want to read that far into them. You're taking the most negative comment you can find in the entire article and hanging the whole game on the virtue of that single comment... and have even refused to acknowledge any qualifiers to the statement the reviewer herself put into the review... and then you condemn every poster here who happens to disagree with your slanted assessment of the reviews themselves. I know a "mixed review" when I read one... and these reviews at worst are mixed. Some are quite positive, some are somewhat negative... but none are overwhelmingly negative. You took the words from my mouth. Cherry picking just what proves your point is a blight too.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Feb 26, 2017 16:39:58 GMT
Thats actually a very valid concern unlike the "ugly face animation" horde we get all over BSN. Weak villain is a major reason why I haven't really been able to get into Pillars of Eternity for example, or why DA2 felt so fractured and all over the place. I want something that I'm afraid of, not something that I don't know what the hell they want from me and I feel like I can crush them like a bug. What I'm reading out of that is that Andy had a first-contact scenario already built up in his own mind and the game didn't use that particular scenario, so he was disappointed. This is what happens when people try to decipher a story before reading the book... self-fulfilling prophesy. Sure, keep it on the list of concerns; but I wouldn't be overtly condemning the game over it yet. Criticisms about the story, IMO, really should wait until the entire story is readable. What is normally expected in a game opening is a tutorial on how to use the basic controls. I suppose an alternative would be open with Ryder shooting at a bunch of other humans on the Ark... but I doubt that would have gone down well with far more of the fans that a "minor" skirmish with one of the new alien species on the block. There is still 40 or so hours of game for them to develop the Kett into something to be feared. I find it interesting that he mentions meeting the Vulcan in First Contact as a comparison... Star Trek had been talking about that first contact through several series by then and it even came right at the end of that particular movie. The villain introduction in that movie was the skirmish with the Borg that caused Enterprise to chase them back in time. Ye, sorry I haven't read the preview fully, there are many and it just gets repetitive to read all of them. If it is an outlier and not a general remark that appeared in other places I'm willing to ignore it. Concerned? Ye. Condemning the entire story before I even touched it myself? Absolutely not.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 16:40:27 GMT
You're taking the most negative comment you can find in the entire article and hanging the whole game on the virtue of that single comment... and have even refused to acknowledge any qualifiers to the statement the reviewer herself put into the review... and then you condemn every poster here who happens to disagree with your slanted assessment of the reviews themselves. Am I doing that? How so? All I've said is that one shouldn't dismiss opinions they don't like. Your comment... "And you can see a lot of that [cherry-picking] on this thread." When, from what I'm reading, the people on this thread are not off-handedly dismissing anything. One even went to so far as to show you, side by side, an image from the Sims and MEA to show you exactly how the two are not the same. She also brought in a full copy of the review in question... and, overall, it is a pretty positive review. I've repeatedly linked to full copies of the reviews I've mentioned and fully admitted that they contain negative points in them. I've directly quoted, however, their generally positive conclusions. So... My conclusion is that you're merely dismissing our comments because you don't like them.
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Post by SofNascimento on Feb 26, 2017 16:45:16 GMT
Am I doing that? How so? All I've said is that one shouldn't dismiss opinions they don't like. Your comment... "And you can see a lot of that [cherry-picking] on this thread." When, from what I'm reading, the people on this thread are not off-handedly dismissing anything. One even went to so far as to show you, side by side, an image from the Sims and MEA to show you exactly how the two are not the same. She also brought in a full copy of the review in question... and, overall, it is a pretty positive review. I've repeatedly linked to full copies of the reviews I've mentioned and fully admitted that they contain negative points in them. I've directly quoted, however, their generally positive conclusions. So... My conclusion is that you're merely dismissing our comments because you don't like them. I agree that MEA and The Sims 3 are not the same, but the girl from IGN never said they were. That was my point. And I never meant you in particular.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 16:54:13 GMT
What most of these reviews are saying, however, is that they didn't like this or that specific thing AND that, in conclusion they still liked what they saw overall. Still, you don't seem to want to read that far into them. You're taking the most negative comment you can find in the entire article and hanging the whole game on the virtue of that single comment... and have even refused to acknowledge any qualifiers to the statement the reviewer herself put into the review... and then you condemn every poster here who happens to disagree with your slanted assessment of the reviews themselves. I know a "mixed review" when I read one... and these reviews at worst are mixed. Some are quite positive, some are somewhat negative... but none are overwhelmingly negative. You took the words from my mouth. Cherry picking just what proves your point is a blight too. Well, then I guess we just can't discuss any details about any of them since that requires pulling those details out of the document. As I said above, I have consistently linked to the full document so people can see for themselves what the original context of the statements I've quoted was. Others here have done the same... so, since I'm a "blight" on this discussion, I will gladly leave it. Have at 'er folks.
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Post by bshep on Feb 26, 2017 17:25:32 GMT
You took the words from my mouth. Cherry picking just what proves your point is a blight too. Well, then I guess we just can't discuss any details about any of them since that requires pulling those details out of the document. As I said above, I have consistently linked to the full document so people can see for themselves what the original context of the statements I've quoted was. Others here have done the same... so, since I'm a "blight" on this discussion, I will gladly leave it. Have at 'er folks. Lol. Guess i need to work on my english... It wasn't directed at you, as i said "you took the words from my mouth". It was directed at the ones who like to go all doomsayer over some threads declaring how bad and faulty MEA is going to be by only picking what proves their point from the dozens of articles released since 23/02. Articles that as you, me and others pointed out across the forum have a positive outlook about the game.
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Post by Elessar on Feb 26, 2017 17:31:29 GMT
I really don't care what some overpaid reviewer thinks of a game. I make the choice to buy it and play it and I form my own opinion base on that. Besides all the "big" sites are paid for reviews these days Overpaid? lol If you think those guys and gals at GameInformer or other gaming outlets are well-off you are way off the mark. And those accusations of being paid-off is just the easiest way to dismiss other opinions. Under every damn review you read posts similar to the above. It has become a joke. I'm not saying there have never been isolated cases of some shady deals and surely publishers want to wield influence or control the word that gets out there as much as possible without crossing any lines but the notion that the whole gaming press is bribed is a bunch of nonsense.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 26, 2017 17:47:15 GMT
90% of the previews are generally very positive, but it's good to see critical ones in there too: sites like Rock Paper Shotgun and Eurogamer gave extremely glowing previews (and are normally very picky on how they preview games, especially RPS). I'm glad there are some people mentioning performance, bugs and animation glitches pre-release: BioWare need to know that this stuff will affect review scores bigtime, and they need to get to bug squashing STAT. We don't want Andromeda to be the New Vegas of this generation (underrated due to initial bugs, tossed aside by it's publisher for not scoring well enough). Also, just checking OP, but you do know the difference between Previews and Reviews right?
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 26, 2017 18:00:17 GMT
Did anyone actually ever take "gaming critics" seriously, to begin with? I found out a long time ago they generally know less about the games they are playing than I do. If someone is actually foolish enough to buy a game based off of some "professional review site," that's on them. The only review and opinion that matters when it comes to gaming is my own. I'll judge the game for myself, thanks. Honest question, Does this mean you also didn't take these "gaming critics" serious when they voted Dragon Age Inquisition game of the year?? That's correct. I thought DAI was a good game with some great moments, but otherwise fell flat due to BioWare trying to do far too many things in that game. Had The Witcher 3 not been delayed into Spring 2015, DAI would not have won so many GotY awards.
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 26, 2017 18:06:27 GMT
The only real criticisms the game has received is bugs and facial animations. And I say "real" criticisms, because there was a couple detractors, such as PC Gamer, who noted they weren't wow'd with the first couple hours with the intro. Which essentially means nothing. Stories can either start with a huge bang (ie ME3, God of War 2, or FF7), or they can start with a slow burn and gradually escalate from there (ME1 or Kingdom Hearts 2).
Can anyone honestly judge KotoR 1 by it's first couple hours? Because if I had played that game for the first time, only experiencing the first half of Taris, and you asked me what I thought, I'd probably say "It's cool but I'm not really impressed with it." Another example I can think of is Red Dead Redemption, where you spend the first couple hours with tutorials.
So any lukewarm impressions with Andromeda's story should be taken with a grain of salt.
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ღ Voice of Reason
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 26, 2017 18:39:40 GMT
The only real criticisms the game has received is bugs and facial animations. And I say "real" criticisms, because there was a couple detractors, such as PC Gamer, who noted they weren't wow'd with the first couple hours with the intro. Which essentially means nothing. Stories can either start with a huge bang (ie ME3, God of War 2, or FF7), or they can start with a slow burn and gradually escalate from there (ME1 or Kingdom Hearts 2). Can anyone honestly judge KotoR 1 by it's first couple hours? Because if I had played that game for the first time, only experiencing the first half of Taris, and you asked me what I thought, I'd probably say "It's cool but I'm not really impressed with it." Another example I can think of is Red Dead Redemption, where you spend the first couple hours with tutorials. So any lukewarm impressions with Andromeda's story should be taken with a grain of salt. These aren't true reviews, anyway. They're media first looks. The reviews will drop in a couple/few of weeks, oddly. They'll be based upon longer looks at the game.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 26, 2017 18:57:02 GMT
The only real criticisms the game has received is bugs and facial animations. And I say "real" criticisms, because there was a couple detractors, such as PC Gamer, who noted they weren't wow'd with the first couple hours with the intro. Which essentially means nothing. Stories can either start with a huge bang (ie ME3, God of War 2, or FF7), or they can start with a slow burn and gradually escalate from there (ME1 or Kingdom Hearts 2). Can anyone honestly judge KotoR 1 by it's first couple hours? Because if I had played that game for the first time, only experiencing the first half of Taris, and you asked me what I thought, I'd probably say "It's cool but I'm not really impressed with it." Another example I can think of is Red Dead Redemption, where you spend the first couple hours with tutorials. So any lukewarm impressions with Andromeda's story should be taken with a grain of salt. These aren't true reviews, anyway. They're media first looks. The reviews will drop in a couple/few of weeks, oddly. They'll be based upon longer looks at the game. We're finally living in a time now where game reviewers are more critical towards games. Horizon getting an 88 on Metacritic, probably would've been in the low to mid 90s 5 years ago. It should be interesting to see where ME:A scores.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Feb 26, 2017 19:29:08 GMT
Oh my god... this is no different from the crowd that often says "I don't trust Rotten Tomatoes because they give this A movie a bad score, but I will trust them again if they change it into a positive score."
I would take a reviewer's word over a "tru" fan of Bioware's games any day of the week.
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