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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Feb 27, 2017 16:10:17 GMT
Also Drak has his gun pointed at something and so they are obviously about to enter combat, so having their fingers on the trigger I think is understandable in this situation. You have literally no idea what was happening several seconds before or after this picture/very small clip, so saying they are doing anything wrong seems silly. Even . or especially- in combat you have to obey the safety rules, otherwise you can get your squad mates killed, this is especially true for firearms that shoot explosives. The finger is only the trigger when you you are aiming down the sights, you see a target and you are ready to shoot. The reason beeing if an explosion or sound frightens you, you automatically tighten your fingers into a fist - and if your finger is on the trigger and your weapon pointing at stuff that should not be shot..well... And aiming on the floor isn't the safest thing either, the projectiles will tear apart upon impact but the pieces will shred feet in the vicinity. This can be turned into a tactic to shoot targets behind cover, like cars - you shoot underneath the car into the ground to injure the feet of those taking cover behind it (behind the engine bay) . Accidental discharges are always dangerous, no matter where the muzzle is pointing. There is a very good reason those rules exist exactly they way they do.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 27, 2017 16:11:06 GMT
It can be challenging for a real life professional to play a fantasy professional if amateur is baked into the cake. If you guys want to criticize ppl for nitpicking, go pick on the kids obsessed with Sara's face and with banging everyone on Hyperion. I wanted to like your post, but then I read the second sentence. The nitpicking in the "face thread" has paid dividends, already; but that's another topic. I do agree with the sentiment that there's no need to unduly criticize anyone's opinion, which I hope is what you really meant. Giant Ambush Beetle, I usually see this kind of stuff and cringe, too. I barely watch TV and movies, because I can't suspend disbelief. I do better with my few, preferred VG IPs. I guess I get more immersed in the setting and events and let go of the details. The specifics of this thread remind me of every single program or movie that features people "clearing" a structure. I could just broaden that to "walking around armed", really. It's rough. It's pretty clear that BioWare does not hire consultants to ensure authenticity on "military matters", so I'm sure we're in for plenty of Hollywood-style goofiness.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 27, 2017 16:25:00 GMT
Also Drak has his gun pointed at something and so they are obviously about to enter combat, so having their fingers on the trigger I think is understandable in this situation. You have literally no idea what was happening several seconds before or after this picture/very small clip, so saying they are doing anything wrong seems silly. Even . or especially- in combat you have to obey the safety rules, otherwise you can get your squad mates killed, this is especially true for firearms that shoot explosives. The finger is only the trigger when you you are aiming down the sights, you see a target and you are ready to shoot. The reason beeing if an explosion or sound frightens you, you automatically tighten your fingers into a fist - and if your finger is on the trigger and your weapon pointing at stuff that should not be shot..well... And aiming on the floor isn't the safest thing either, the projectiles will tear apart upon impact but the pieces will shred feet in the vicinity. This can be turned into a tactic to shoot targets behind cover, like cars - you shoot underneath the car into the ground to injure the feet of those taking cover behind it (behind the engine bay) . Accidental discharges are always dangerous, no matter where the muzzle is pointing. There is a very good reason those rules exist exactly they way they do. Aww, you're right. Pre-order cancelled.
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Post by hammerstorm on Feb 27, 2017 16:31:37 GMT
Eh, I have learned to live with all the fantasy games that can't even use weapons/shields/armor right. I will survive some stupid gun safety in a game too. While it is fun to see games get things right, there is more pressing matters that they should fix before they try to make the PC and NPCs animations more complex. I'm not an animator or anything, but I assume that it is a fair bit of work to get it right. But, they have apparently got the SMG grip right, so there is hope in the future.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Feb 27, 2017 16:36:53 GMT
It's important to remember that this is a video game. With that logic you can justify any blatant error or design mistake in a video game. Er....technically you can justify anything by saying this is a video game. A game designer tries to emulate reality as much as is necessary according to their design constraints. For example, most video games do not implement a requirement to use the bathroom because that is irrelevant to the experience they want to convey. Sims is a life simulator so obviously they'd want to include it, but the real world has guns so why doesn't Sims have them? The designers don't want to include physical violence beyond a single "Fight" mechanic where the characters are covered in smoke so you can't really see anything. In regards to safety, given that this is a shooter, gun safety is definitely going to be on their radar in most of their designs as a lot of them are intuitive. Why would you be pointing your gun at people if you aren't shooting? However, it'll most likely be an implicit contract, one that can be broken when they think it is not a priority. In fact, a perfect example is that promotional photo. They want all the characters close to each other for a shot that conveys "team", and they want them to be equipping their gun to look badass. The purpose is to hype people for the game, so safety takes a back seat in favor of visual appeal. So it's an "error" in that it breaks from norms, but it's one that is handled for a reason.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 27, 2017 16:39:52 GMT
Hey, I don't remember seeing their weapon registration either! How do we know if they even got these weapons legally? I mean sure the Ryders were part of Alliance Navy, but what about PeeBee? Should she even have that gun??? Papers, please!!
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Sorry, my face is tired from dealing with... everything.
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Post by theflyingzamboni on Feb 27, 2017 16:54:31 GMT
Liam is about to shoot Scott in the ass and Cora + Pebee seem to have hatred for the floor, because they are ready to shoot it to pieces. The bigger question is what Scott is doing. I don't think that's how you hold a gun, dude. And he seems to have misplaced his thumb entirely. Honestly, I though this thread was a joke until I saw OP repeatedly and vigorously arguing with everyone, in detail.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 27, 2017 16:57:09 GMT
Liam is about to shoot Scott in the ass and Cora + Pebee seem to have hatred for the floor, because they are ready to shoot it to pieces. The bigger question is what Scott is doing. I don't think that's how you hold a gun, dude. And he seems to have misplaced his thumb entirely. Honestly, I though this thread was a joke until I saw OP repeatedly and vigorously arguing with everyone repeatedly, in detail. I really wish it was a joke.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 27, 2017 16:58:23 GMT
* cough *
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 27, 2017 17:36:17 GMT
You know, I just noticed the screenshot of this vid, Jonah Hill is still practicing good trigger discipline, despite it specifically being a scene about fucking with a gun in a ridiculous comedy movie.
So yeah, Beetle is spot on actually.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 17:46:27 GMT
TC, if the rifle shouldn't be pointed at the ground (as long as you're not ignorantly pointing at your own feet), where should it be pointed? Technically, if it's held high and pointed up at the sky, what goes up must come down, and a shot accidentally fired up could come down and hit someone (why people say it's advisable not to shoot into the air)? That's what I've heard, so I'm curious what you think.
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Post by Sondergaard on Feb 27, 2017 18:01:49 GMT
While nitpicky, it's another one of those 'if they can't be bothered to get this right what else have they waved through or not even noticed'? A few hours of watching prime time would get you acquainted with the rudiments of 'tacti-cool', and that's all anybody is asking for. So, whilst in and of itself it's easily ignored, when added to the list of other worries I already have it just makes me happier that I have indeed cancelled my pre-order. I'll almost certainly pick it up at some point though.
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Post by simsimillia on Feb 27, 2017 18:06:49 GMT
Proper trigger discipline would be nice for sure. But I don't think it has been present in any Mass Effect game so far or many games in general.
But this is really a very minor thing and the work needed to properly implement this isn't worth it in my opinion.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 27, 2017 18:07:12 GMT
TC, if the rifle shouldn't be pointed at the ground (as long as you're not ignorantly pointing at your own feet), where should it be pointed? Technically, if it's held high and pointed up at the sky, what goes up must come down, and a shot accidentally fired up could come down and hit someone (why people say it's advisable not to shoot into the air)? That's what I've heard, so I'm curious what you think. Weapons should be dismantled and only reassembled to be pointing directly at the enemy. Once the enemy is down, disassemble the weapon again until another shows up. Then reassemble and repeat. It's the only way.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 27, 2017 18:09:00 GMT
While nitpicky, it's another one of those 'if they can't be bothered to get this right what else have they waved through or not even noticed'? A few hours of watching prime time would get you acquainted with the rudiments of 'tacti-cool', and that's all anybody is asking for. So, whilst in and of itself it's easily ignored, when added to the list of other worries I already have it just makes me happier that I have indeed cancelled my pre-order. I'll almost certainly pick it up at some point though. I don't think from this very small clip from a promotional trailer that you can say "They haven't bothered to get it right." We simply don't know that. I think to draw any conclusions from this photo to the greater quality of the game is taking it too far.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by lastpawn on Feb 27, 2017 18:12:39 GMT
I hope the Bioware Mass Effect team has not forgotten the gun safety rules. Cutscenes where characters blatantly ignore the safety rules would break the immersion for me, those are highly trained individuals after all. Nothing screams ''unprofessional'' like not following the gun safety rules. A Gun Is Always Loaded Never Point The Gun At Something You Are Not Prepared To DestroyKeep Your Finger Off The Trigger Until Your Sights Are On The TargetAlways Be Sure Of Your Target And What Is Behind It Liam is about to shoot Scott in the ass and Cora + Pebee seem to have hatred for the floor, because they are ready to shoot it to pieces. I hope that there are bathrooms on the Tempest and that your crew actively uses them. It always ruined my immersion and broke my suspension of disbelief. You jest, but Normandy had bathrooms. As for "your crew actively" using them, taking a dump isn't a big part of Mass Effect. Handing guns is.
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Post by Sondergaard on Feb 27, 2017 18:14:00 GMT
While nitpicky, it's another one of those 'if they can't be bothered to get this right what else have they waved through or not even noticed'? A few hours of watching prime time would get you acquainted with the rudiments of 'tacti-cool', and that's all anybody is asking for. So, whilst in and of itself it's easily ignored, when added to the list of other worries I already have it just makes me happier that I have indeed cancelled my pre-order. I'll almost certainly pick it up at some point though. I don't think from this very small clip from a promotional trailer that you can say "They haven't bothered to get it right." We simply don't know that. I think to draw any conclusions from this photo to the greater quality of the game is taking it too far. Absolutely, and by itself its pretty much meaningless. But it's just one more thing for me. So I'll wait a bit and see if the good outweighs the bad. Or until it's cheaper, whichever comes first.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Feb 27, 2017 18:22:07 GMT
TC, if the rifle shouldn't be pointed at the ground (as long as you're not ignorantly pointing at your own feet), where should it be pointed? Technically, if it's held high and pointed up at the sky, what goes up must come down, and a shot accidentally fired up could come down and hit someone (why people say it's advisable not to shoot into the air)? That's what I've heard, so I'm curious what you think. No, its correct to point it at the ground, I was just saying that pointing it at the ground does not make a safety guarantee. If you dump a burst into the ground before your feet because of say poor trigger discipline you can still hurt people, and yourself. Proper trigger discipline would be nice for sure. But I don't think it has been present in any Mass Effect game so far or many games in general. If I remember correctly ME3 had it right for the most part.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 27, 2017 18:29:16 GMT
TC, if the rifle shouldn't be pointed at the ground (as long as you're not ignorantly pointing at your own feet), where should it be pointed? Technically, if it's held high and pointed up at the sky, what goes up must come down, and a shot accidentally fired up could come down and hit someone (why people say it's advisable not to shoot into the air)? That's what I've heard, so I'm curious what you think. I wonder about this, in regard to ME weapon's in particular. I'm about to deviate into off-topic speculation. The projectiles fired from these weapons are so tiny, and traveling at such high velocity, that I suspect normal "safety rules" wouldn't really apply. I mean specifically in the sense of "what goes up must come down". If I fire a grain of sand into our sky at a not insignificant fraction of the speed of light, how far will it go? Will it burn up, or decelerate, first? If it decelerates, who cares where it falls? It's a grain of sand, after all. It will be carried harmlessly on the wind. I'm finished. There's always another weird "what if" scenario when this setting's tech is involved.
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Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
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Post by Beerfish on Feb 27, 2017 18:30:46 GMT
There certainly are 'you are going to shoot your eye out!' moments in these games,
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Feb 27, 2017 18:32:57 GMT
TC, if the rifle shouldn't be pointed at the ground (as long as you're not ignorantly pointing at your own feet), where should it be pointed? Technically, if it's held high and pointed up at the sky, what goes up must come down, and a shot accidentally fired up could come down and hit someone (why people say it's advisable not to shoot into the air)? That's what I've heard, so I'm curious what you think. I wonder about this, in regard to ME weapon's in particular. I'm about to deviate into off-topic speculation. The projectiles fired from these weapons are so tiny, and traveling at such high velocity, that I suspect normal "safety rules" wouldn't really apply. I mean specifically in the sense of "what goes up must come down". If I fire a grain of sand into our sky at a not insignificant fraction of the speed of light, how far will it go? Will it burn up, or decelerate, first? If it decelerates, who cares where it falls? It's a grain of sand, after all. It will be carried harmlessly on the wind. I'm finished. There's always another weird "what if" scenario when this setting's tech is involved. I think the problem is evident with the long range weapons such as the widow.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Coming0fShadows
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Post by ComingOfShadows on Feb 27, 2017 18:54:26 GMT
I doubt the devs working on this ever handled firearms which is part of the problem. If they did they would notice how dumb this looks. You have games being made like Kingdom Come Deliverance which is trying to get sword fighting down as close as possible. They brought in HEMA experts as i recall. Thats not even a level of detail thats being asked for here. Its more like in comparison they would bring in experts to show them how to hold a sword and thats it. Only in this case all they need to do is look up in a book a handful of safety elements.
If people think this is "nitpicking" thats absurd, its simply how you hold a weapon... which we do for the majority of the game. It should be one of the most basic things they implement.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: BloodRed Thorne
Posts: 539 Likes: 1,414
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Post by The Joe-Man on Feb 27, 2017 19:22:53 GMT
"Keep you booger hooker off the bang switch" doesn't seem like too much to ask. It's pretty basic stuff. I'm with the OP on this.
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“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MihuraL
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Post by Mihura on Feb 27, 2017 19:54:23 GMT
This is a CW cast promoshoot, of course it is not going to be realistic. They are young and reckless!
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Feb 27, 2017 20:01:47 GMT
I doubt the devs working on this ever handled firearms which is part of the problem. If they did they would notice how dumb this looks. You have games being made like Kingdom Come Deliverance which is trying to get sword fighting down as close as possible. They brought in HEMA experts as i recall. Thats not even a level of detail thats being asked for here. Its more like in comparison they would bring in experts to show them how to hold a sword and thats it. Only in this case all they need to do is look up in a book a handful of safety elements. That's because it is nitpicking based on little context. Using a promotional photo for justification is scraping the barrel. That's a design aimed for marketing not for gameplay fidelity. They even outright state that this is not actual gameplay footage. Your comparisons don't even make sense. What does weapon handling in combat have to do with gun safety protocol? Are you referring to sword sheathing and the like? Even then, why are you making a comparison to a game that is almost exclusively all about combat that is also very limited in comparison to MEA?
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