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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 27, 2017 22:17:33 GMT
Because the vast majority of gamers aren't like us typing nonstop in forum debates. They're bros that play games for fun in their sparetime like I used to when I was 17 and then that sorta called for less attention and less "deep" experiences, and games like Horizon would've been my kind of jam back when I was a teenager. I think the marketing works becuase the appeal of the gameplay itself hits home with millions of gamers who don't need games to have deep stories. They do want stories but to a lot of people, including my friends, storytelling comes from the sight of a human being looking dramatic rather than the context of a good script or universe. There's a reason why Marvel movies are so greatThat's also why you'll see the mere notion of a strong female protagonist and (from what I've heard) great racial/ethnic diversity be great for the story. Most people don't really care beyond the surface. They just want that tokenism and it must mean that the game is really respectful and representative for human diversity. But most of the praise in addition to the unique combat is coming from the well written/executed story. And that's what I mean. I've seen enough of HZD to recognize it has a clueless script. I've heard the world's story is fine but the arc for Aloy should be pretty terrible, but alas, reviewers gobble it up like it's Citizen Kane because it has token-gestures and a powerful female protagonist. It's the same thing that gave BioShock Infinite universal critical praise because it "tackles themes historic themes", again it's all token gestures and reviewers start handing out awards; only few of them care to look beyond the surface. Whenever we get an equivalent to Ripley as a female face for a game-series, hit me up and I'll gladly celebrate how awesome the female gender is with you. I just won't do it in the name of friggin Aloy or any other modern female Mary Sue character that comes to mind like Lara from the new Tomb Raider games or Rey from Star Wars. It takes more than shoving something in my face to prove why it's supposedly really good. As I see it, Aloy is just an attention-grab. Very timely but maybe something we'll look back and be unimpressed by, by consensus in 10-20 years. |
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Feb 27, 2017 22:18:03 GMT
Just out of interest do people enjoy a game less if they find out it got a low critical score, and vice versa? Surely it's what you think that matters. Confirmation bias is a thing. If people are skeptical about something, they'll latch on to whatever they think supports their opinion. If they think MEA won't do well and some critic rants about it, they'll tend to agree with that critic. The opposite applies of course, but video games are meant to be enjoyed. |
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Post by colfoley on Feb 27, 2017 22:18:33 GMT
Horizon has the same amount of RPG elements as ME2 and ME3 (Dialogue trees, upgrades, customization) with the crafting and resource gathering of ME:A. The world areas are gorgeous and diverse, and the robots all feel like Zelda bosses. Again with the open world elements vs on the rail elements, Horizon proves that the open world concepts/mechanics seen in multiple games can be quite awesome if done correctly. It also proves that an open world/sandbox can indeed have an incredible story. I hope Mass Effect is as good, but I think it will be lacking that extra bit of polish, detail, and immersion. Teleporting in/out of the Nomad in a jarring way is one example of the lack of attention to detail. IGN gave Horizon a 9.3. I'm predicting an 8.5 for Mass Effect: Andromeda. you forget MEA will have a CC. As did ME 2 and 3. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 27, 2017 22:20:48 GMT
I'm fearing something like 6/10 from some outlets. I have a rational fear that the game will be a buggy mess in the first couple of months.
Bear in mind again that this game is led by the team that couldn't be bothered to patch Aria's broken speech in Omega DLC. She's still sliding back and forth in the biggest scene that they even put in the trailers for the DLC and I'm sure it could be fixed in a day's work.
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Post by Nashimura on Feb 27, 2017 22:22:36 GMT
DAI MEA comparisons to Witcher Horizon inc I actually feel this time Bioware will come out better off after the comparison, Witcher 3 came in and did everything better than DA (in my opinion, others too) and absolutely made some people think worse of DAI when it came out. Not sure this will be the same here, Andromeda's gameplay looks really solid, far better than i had expected... unless it's dragged down by performance problems (Reviewers seem bi-polar on whether they will takes points off for this) then i can see it being received better, if not by reviewers then certainly by fans. |
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Post by RoboticWater on Feb 27, 2017 22:24:46 GMT
Of course it'll affect the scores. A review of a game is an appraisal of its quality in relationship to the current media landscape, especially with regards to its recent peers. I would be very disappointed in the reviews if they didn't. If Andromeda's open world, gameplay, or production value pale in comparison to some other game with similar aspirations, I want to know that because that will drive my purchasing decision towards one game or the other.
The important thing though, is whether getting a lower review score should matter to us, and answer to that is obviously no. If Andromeda gets lower scores because of some other game, then it's on BioWare to either get on that game's level or decide to focus their efforts elsewhere. As for us, we need only consider review scores as a metric for purchasing the game and nothing else. The way you hear some people talk about review scores, you'd think they were personal insults pointed directly at their child, and that nonsense needs to stop.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 27, 2017 22:28:15 GMT
Just out of interest do people enjoy a game less if they find out it got a low critical score, and vice versa? Surely it's what you think that matters. Confirmation bias is a thing. If people are skeptical about something, they'll latch on to whatever they think supports their opinion. If they think MEA won't do well and some critic rants about it, they'll tend to agree with that critic. The opposite applies of course, but video games are meant to be enjoyed. That's very true, but it seems that on here people are desperate to find anything that they can use as an indicator ME:A will be shit. It's a bit odd. |
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 27, 2017 22:28:28 GMT
Ok, IF HZD should impact MEA's scores, then BW better step up in the facial animation department... HZD's are better by a long long shot.  |
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 27, 2017 22:29:08 GMT
IGN gave Horizon a 9.3. I'm predicting an 8.5 for Mass Effect: Andromeda. I don't doubt your estimates, necessarily; but this is where personal judgment comes into play. I'm buying both games, because I expect HZD to be reasonably entertaining. That said, I don't expect it to be half the game MEA will be. If it is (half the game), that's great; and it's a bonus for me. If I played more games, I'd probably pass on HZD. Many of its core designs are pretty derivative and well worn. I don't play a lot of games, though; and I think I'll enjoy it. (The same could be said of MEA, of course. The difference is that ME is an established IP that I love above all others. The new elements that it has borrowed from other IPs don't bother me.) |
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Post by colfoley on Feb 27, 2017 22:33:33 GMT
I'm fearing something like 6/10 from some outlets. I have a rational fear that the game will be a buggy mess in the first couple of months. Bear in mind again that this game is led by the team that couldn't be bothered to patch Aria's broken speech in Omega DLC. She's still sliding back and forth in the biggest scene that they even put in the trailers for the DLC and I'm sure it could be fixed in a day's work. Honestly out of all the times I've v played that dlc. Probably eight. Maybe even nine. That has only happened to me twice. |
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 27, 2017 22:34:11 GMT
but can I bang everything that moves, as well as a few things that don't move? To be honest I don't really expect Horizon to have much of an impact on ME:A review scores, if any. Agreed I don't think HZD have much of an impact on MEA at all. As good as Horizon looks it's a PS4 exclusive so it would only really affect those that aer on that system MEA on the other hand is being released across the boardPC XB1 as well as PS4 s oit's not an exclusive so any losses if there were any(and it's a pretty big if) would likely be made up by the fact that they're selling on XB1 and PC as well. I admit I'd have been tempted by Horizon had it been released on PC but there you go. |
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 27, 2017 22:34:43 GMT
But most of the praise in addition to the unique combat is coming from the well written/executed story. And that's what I mean. I've seen enough of HZD to recognize it has a clueless script. I've heard the world's story is fine but the arc for Aloy should be pretty terrible, but alas, reviewers gobble it up like it's Citizen Kane because it has token-gestures and a powerful female protagonist. It's the same thing that gave BioShock Infinite universal critical praise because it "tackles themes historic themes", again it's all token gestures and reviewers start handing out awards; only few of them care to look beyond the surface. Whenever we get an equivalent to Ripley as a female face for a game-series, hit me up and I'll gladly celebrate how awesome the female gender is with you. I just won't do it in the name of friggin Aloy or any other modern female Mary Sue character that comes to mind like Lara from the new Tomb Raider games or Rey from Star Wars. It takes more than shoving something in my face to prove why it's supposedly really good. As I see it, Aloy is just an attention-grab. Very timely but maybe something we'll look back and be unimpressed by, by consensus in 10-20 years. Hmm I really like Rey and the new Lara Croft so I guess just different opinions? I normally don't care for female protagonists in movies or games, but I love all three that you mentioned |
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 27, 2017 22:35:01 GMT
I'm fearing something like 6/10 from some outlets. I have a rational fear that the game will be a buggy mess in the first couple of months. Bear in mind again that this game is led by the team that couldn't be bothered to patch Aria's broken speech in Omega DLC. She's still sliding back and forth in the biggest scene that they even put in the trailers for the DLC and I'm sure it could be fixed in a day's work. Honestly out of all the times I've v played that dlc. Probably eight. Maybe even nine. That has only happened to me twice. Really? I've never not had it happen. I assumed it was the permanent state of the DLC. I play the OT on XB360. |
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Post by bshep on Feb 27, 2017 22:35:35 GMT
So what does it matter if Horizon ZD does well? It's not like this game is similar to Mass Effect Andromeda apart from the Action-RPG classification, any review will tell you that. Besides they don't even have the same target market: HZD is a playstation exclusive while MEA will be released for PC,Playstation and Xbox. Worrying that MEA will fail because HZD is getting good reviews is really grasping at straws.  Ok, IF HZD should impact MEA's scores, then BW better step up in the facial animation department... HZD's are better by a long long shot. Are you kidding? It's the guys who did HZD who need to step up on this department. |
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 27, 2017 22:36:28 GMT
Horizon has the same amount of RPG elements as ME2 and ME3 (Dialogue trees, upgrades, customization) with the crafting and resource gathering of ME:A. The world areas are gorgeous and diverse, and the robots all feel like Zelda bosses. Again with the open world elements vs on the rail elements, Horizon proves that the open world concepts/mechanics seen in multiple games can be quite awesome if done correctly. It also proves that an open world/sandbox can indeed have an incredible story. I hope Mass Effect is as good, but I think it will be lacking that extra bit of polish, detail, and immersion. Teleporting in/out of the Nomad in a jarring way is one example of the lack of attention to detail. IGN gave Horizon a 9.3. I'm predicting an 8.5 for Mass Effect: Andromeda. you forget MEA will have a CC. As did ME 2 and 3. I never used character creation besides deciding Vanguard, etc because the faces were horrendous (playdough faces) . It was always default Shepard for me |
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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 27, 2017 22:38:43 GMT
By the time I save enough money to get a PS4, this, bloodborne and maybe two other games I am looking at will be half price. Because its going to take me at least 6-8 months to save for one.
I got a whole lot on my plate in the next year so this will be in last place in terms of Buy priority.
Edit: As for competing with ME:A, guess we shall see, its basically PS4 only sales vs everything else. *wish it was on the computer too.
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Post by bshep on Feb 27, 2017 22:41:24 GMT
you forget MEA will have a CC. As did ME 2 and 3. I never used character creation besides deciding Vanguard, etc because the faces were horrendous (playdough faces) . It was always default Shepard for me High five bro.  |
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 27, 2017 22:44:00 GMT
IGN gave Horizon a 9.3. I'm predicting an 8.5 for Mass Effect: Andromeda. I don't doubt your estimates, necessarily; but this is where personal judgment comes into play. I'm buying both games, because I expect HZD to be reasonably entertaining. That said, I don't expect it to be half the game MEA will be. If it is (half the game), that's great; and it's a bonus for me. If I played more games, I'd probably pass on HZD. Many of its core designs are pretty derivative and well worn. I don't play a lot of games, though; and I think I'll enjoy it. (The same could be said of MEA, of course. The difference is that ME is an established IP that I love above all others. The new elements that it has borrowed from other IPs don't bother me.) I'll be buying both. I think Horizon being a new IP inflated some scores, but we'll see after about a week. I think more is riding on Mass Effect because it is an older IP. It already had its end. If Bioware decides to play it too safe and make it mostly story and combat like the OT then it will get a lower score in terms of reviews. Mass Effect: Andromeda should almost feel like a new IP but with Nostalgia. Uncharted 4 is actually a decent example where it scored lower scores. It had some innovations, but it ultimately felt more like the greatest hits of the first three games causing some that original appeal to fade away when reviewing the game. Where Uncharted 4 was supposed to be the last game tying up Drake's story, Mass Effect: Andromeda is to be new beginning so it needs to feel fresh and innovative. With what I've seen, it does so in many regards but it may not be enough to say that they were just playing it safe. |
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Post by stealthfox94 on Feb 27, 2017 22:52:28 GMT
But most of the praise in addition to the unique combat is coming from the well written/executed story. And that's what I mean. I've seen enough of HZD to recognize it has a clueless script. I've heard the world's story is fine but the arc for Aloy should be pretty terrible, but alas, reviewers gobble it up like it's Citizen Kane because it has token-gestures and a powerful female protagonist. It's the same thing that gave BioShock Infinite universal critical praise because it "tackles themes historic themes", again it's all token gestures and reviewers start handing out awards; only few of them care to look beyond the surface. Whenever we get an equivalent to Ripley as a female face for a game-series, hit me up and I'll gladly celebrate how awesome the female gender is with you. I just won't do it in the name of friggin Aloy or any other modern female Mary Sue character that comes to mind like Lara from the new Tomb Raider games or Rey from Star Wars. It takes more than shoving something in my face to prove why it's supposedly really good. As I see it, Aloy is just an attention-grab. Very timely but maybe something we'll look back and be unimpressed by, by consensus in 10-20 years. Man I was actually taking you seriously, then you had to use that term...........smh. |
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Post by vonuber on Feb 27, 2017 22:56:44 GMT
Whenever we get an equivalent to Ripley as a female face for a game-series, hit me up and I'll gladly celebrate how awesome the female gender is with you. I just won't do it in the name of friggin Aloy or any other modern female Mary Sue character that comes to mind like Lara from the new Tomb Raider games or Rey from Star Wars. It takes more than shoving something in my face to prove why it's supposedly really good. As I see it, Aloy is just an attention-grab. Very timely but maybe something we'll look back and be unimpressed by, by consensus in 10-20 years. Interesting to read this, especially when you think Life is Strange - another female led thing - is crap. |
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Post by Mythgar on Feb 27, 2017 22:56:52 GMT
It's an interesting thought, but I doubt it. It is possible the reverse could even happen, and ME:A's review scores are positively impacted, due to people having played Horizon and enjoying Andromeda more. Either scenario is possible I suppose. I am picking up Horizon tomorrow, and then obviously picking up Andromeda on the 21st, so I will try to remember to come back here and let you know if my experience with Horizon had any impact on my Andromeda playthrough. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 27, 2017 23:01:09 GMT
Whenever we get an equivalent to Ripley as a female face for a game-series, hit me up and I'll gladly celebrate how awesome the female gender is with you. I just won't do it in the name of friggin Aloy or any other modern female Mary Sue character that comes to mind like Lara from the new Tomb Raider games or Rey from Star Wars. It takes more than shoving something in my face to prove why it's supposedly really good. As I see it, Aloy is just an attention-grab. Very timely but maybe something we'll look back and be unimpressed by, by consensus in 10-20 years. Interesting to read this, especially when you think Life is Strange - another female led thing - is crap. I like Life is Strange, I just think it's objectively hot garbage as a story, and IIRC what I said was that I think people are oblivious to its narrative shortcomings. Doesn't mean we can't like it. I'm just iffy about it when people say "the writing is soooo good" because it's not. I chose to kiss Chloe in case you think I have some sort of agenda. I liked walking around, I liked the tone and I liked that you could feel the authors were passionate (even if they were also confused about what they were doing) |
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Post by guanxi on Feb 27, 2017 23:03:19 GMT
Horizon Zero Dawn has already garnered some impressive review scores but it's not exactly a watershed moment like for example following TW3. It's doing nothing particularly new or innovative and does seems to have been influenced a bit by BioWare, a lot by Ubisoft.
It might have some impact on sales as gamers might be a bit burnt out on two heavy hitting exploration and narrative focused games releasing within quick succession with more cross-over then I think you might realise but the fact that it's Guerrilla games really puts me off it as the Killzone series really was hot salty garbage.
It looks like Far Cry Primal with Robot dinosaurs but I know whenever I make dumb observations like this I know I'll end up feeling like an idiot for holding such views in retrospect and end up evangelically defending it at some point. It's practically nailed on at this point.
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 27, 2017 23:04:15 GMT
And that's what I mean. I've seen enough of HZD to recognize it has a clueless script. I've heard the world's story is fine but the arc for Aloy should be pretty terrible, but alas, reviewers gobble it up like it's Citizen Kane because it has token-gestures and a powerful female protagonist. It's the same thing that gave BioShock Infinite universal critical praise because it "tackles themes historic themes", again it's all token gestures and reviewers start handing out awards; only few of them care to look beyond the surface. Whenever we get an equivalent to Ripley as a female face for a game-series, hit me up and I'll gladly celebrate how awesome the female gender is with you. I just won't do it in the name of friggin Aloy or any other modern female Mary Sue character that comes to mind like Lara from the new Tomb Raider games or Rey from Star Wars. It takes more than shoving something in my face to prove why it's supposedly really good. As I see it, Aloy is just an attention-grab. Very timely but maybe something we'll look back and be unimpressed by, by consensus in 10-20 years. Man I was actually taking you seriously, then you had to use that term...........smh. Haha... I just love that review. |
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Post by Warrick on Feb 27, 2017 23:04:19 GMT
Funnily enough, guys are complaining that the protagonist of this game is ugly...
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