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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 2:29:37 GMT
You say later down the line that pretty presentation isn't all that important to you, but you're specifically talking about the animations here as though they're a deal-breaker. It's kinda confusing. Especially after all the praise you dished out on everything else, artistically and graphically. That's pretty fair, honestly. Bioware has been more and more console focused for quite awhile. I also think the tactics are mostly unnecessary, as I'm replaying on Nightmare at the moment, and I very rarely use it. Although it does help when you're a couple levels below the enemy you're fighting. I'd agree that the story was kinda bland, in the sense that it seems largely inconsequential for the majority of the game, though it did have some really interesting aspects to it. I liked the whole debate as to whether or not Andraste really sent you. I liked losing Haven mid-way through the game (and I wished they hadn't talked about Skyhold before release, because I knew it was coming). The Winter Palace was also exceptional. Probably one of the better uses of the dialogue wheel in Bioware's games. Added a lot of depth to conversation, since you had to be able to manipulate everyone, something that's a part of Orlesian politics. I do like most of the characters well enough, though. Particularly Cass and Dorian. They're exceptionally likable. Everyone else was mostly, "Eh, you're alright, but I'm not super impressed". The side quests are atrocious. No argument on that one. The reason I frequently forget about everything Inquisition does right is because the side quests were done so poorly. It makes me never want to look at the game again. Especially since certain parts of the story are locked behind tedious and shallow gathering missions and a bunch of other bullshit. Ew. Don't be that guy. What? All I'm saying is that fantasy games - in general - have kinda lost their appeal to me, so maybe I'm not the best person to fairly judge the game to begin with, since I pretty much have seen it all at this point. Also, regarding graphics: True, graphics are not important, unless you make them important, and once you set a standard for your game, every falloff from that becomes jarring... That's... not what that looked like, but alright. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume I was just being defensive. The whole "I've been playing games for a long time and I'm not wowed by shiny graphics" bit seemed like you were implying everyone else only liked what they've seen because of graphical fidelity. I think the graphics have been improving with each new Bioware title. It may not be the best anyone's ever seen, but it's about what I've been expecting from them. You can't win 'em all.
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Post by bshep on Mar 1, 2017 2:30:36 GMT
And since when is a 8/10 a bad game? Sure the game got criticized because of it's boring side quests or the lack of cinematic on most of them. But the companions were one of the strong points of the game(like in every Bioware game) and the main story was really solid enough to hold a game that suffered from weak side content. Besides it brought one of the best villains Bioware ever made. All in all the game was good enough to win several prizes despite its problems. So I find really ironic when people use "DAI in space" as a way of criticize Mass Effec Andromeda. What villain? Mr. I was in that one DA2 DLC and now I want to destroy the world for reasons? Yea, great villain... I mean, it was mighty nice of him to not put up ANY opposition to the Inquisitor for practically the whole game, but other then that? Let's face it, DAI wasn't better then DA2, only the standards had fallen... Wanting it to be bad doesn't make it true. You can't really believe that most people who reviewed and played the game intentionally lowered their standards just to throw prizes and praises respectively at the game. Now that is nonsense. Solas was the true mastermind behind everything that happened, Corypheus was just his puppet.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 1, 2017 2:32:40 GMT
Hmmm...i didn't go through the entire 20 page romp, but my impressions was that everything looks good. But the dialogue and voice acting? A bit too happy-happy joy-joy for me. I understand that Sara is a cadet/rookie?...but eh with what is going on, it doesn't feel like the character is taking these tasks seriously. I guess what i'm saying is atht for somebody to be the leader of this squad, she seems like she's a teenager. I understand the dev's stated this would be a more light-hearted affair, but we don't need to go into rated "G" zone type dialogue.....Yeah this clip doesn't represent the entire game, but I hope the dialoguw and banter at least when it comes to Sara and Peebee improves and again maybe this is just part of their character "young and spirited?"...idk, but it just felt a bot off for these scenes....and Sara's facial expressions in the beginning?...eh...we're back in derp mode.... Honestly tho...everything else? The visuals look great animations aren't too bad and folks are complaining about generic robot enemies?, but that has been a staple for just about any ME game or any sci-fi joint for that matter. We already know the enemies will be varied. My complaints so far tho is just the cheesy dialogue and it just feels out of place here.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 2:33:04 GMT
Well fuck that scanner, this may be a deal breaker. Good thing I have not pre-ordered yet. As far as I can tell, you scan new types of ores, plants, and animals, and it gives you blueprints or something to make new shit. I don't think you're actually gathering resources the way we were in Dragon Age. As far as the actual mining is concerned, we're supposedly going to be setting up mining drones, and settlements. It does seem a liiiiiittle too important to story missions, from this footage, but I wouldn't call it a dealbreaker. Most people who have had time with the game haven't complained about scanning yet, and it seems to work differently from how it did in Inquisition. We'll just have to see how it all plays out. Although I'd advise against pre-ordering anyway. Not really any reason to pledge your money to EA before you even get the game.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 1, 2017 2:33:38 GMT
Since there's a lot of back and forth about DA:I again I just had to think back long and hard about what it is about that game, so here's the skinny:
First off, MMO-time-sink design was indeed awful. DA:O has a lot of low-effort quests too in Denerim for example. You go to a board and check boxes to assing yourself to a series of quests that have barebones context. Then you go to a house or bring up the map of Denerim and travel to the isolated locations containing the quest objectives. It's very focused and quickly done and completing a quest is always satisfying in some small if it's in an RPG where you get XP or loot from it. In DA:I however these kinds of quests are thrown at you, not just when entering the hub area, but in every main exploration area that you'll likely spend 50 hours in in total you'll just find these types of quests thrown at you from all sides... for 50 hours total. That amounts to a lot of boring filler that doesn't stimulate you intellectually in any way, only the sights and the combat can do that job for you... but it just didn't click for me. The combat was a lot of holding down the R2 trigger for 10 minutes at a time, watching that Barrier meter go down so I knew I had to switch to the other mage and re-apply it or something. Make Sure Cassandra had her Guard up so we wouldn't wipe, but when this gameplay goes on for maybe 10 hours at a time before you reach the next point of going to a story-driven scene or something, the game just starts to bore you to tears and when that feeling sets in you realize, as you're playing, that you're not enjoying yourself. In the end the game is tainted by that feeling to me. I could always escape some of ME1's boredom by rushing through the main quest and skipping dialogue and not do whatever I thought was boring but I was never forced to do inconsequential fluff if I didn't wanna for several hours. DA:O, which I'm playing right now also keeps me engaged by having neatly scripted areas and combat encounters the entire game that always take me to the next part of the game somehow. I know I'm exhausting content and I'm never thrown back to someplace where I know there's nothing left and I'm not forced to traverse through half of it to reach the next meaningful objective. Because the game-design is focused like that the companion content is also very well balanced just as it is in ME2 for example.
I just don't care for the excessive amount of meandering there was in DA:I because the main plot had zero sense of direction due to having to compromise so hard with exploration zones that were full of side-quest litter, just so I could raise some arbitrary score called "power" to do whatever I actually wanted to. It ended up being a series of one-off character vignettes that unlike ME2 actually felt more like ME1-companion quests in that they only had one cutscene sometimes they just required you to go to a location in The Hinterlands for instance and defeat a generic boss-enemy and then some choice, but it felt like the meat of the story at times. Then once you went to the main story mission it was like ME1's Noveria, Feros or Ilos but just like an ME3 mission instead so it was completely linear in exclusive maps but there was no sense of link between the hub, the exploration areas and then the main-quest area, and most importantly, no buildup at all. Each main mission just shows you showing up in the middle of some big moment as if a huge amount of levels and cutscenes had been cut from the game. The time skips were super jarring.
All in all it just felt lacklustre to me. If I can tell a game has flaws and those flaws really hamper my enjoyment as I'm playing it then it turns into a bad lasting impression, and such is the case of DA:I for me. There you have it. Over and done with.
For ME:A, particularly the statements about the "lighter tone" and "there's huge stakes BUT we didn't wanna make it too urgent" and "It's about the characters" nonsense just confirms to me that ME:A is another by-the-numbers game where BioWare has bit off more than they could chew, end up making a really stitched together main plot because half the buildup couldn't be made when the budget was spent on designing the exploration areas instead and crew dialogue will be all endearing but ultimately bland on some level because the loyalty missions are actually just DA:I/ME1-esque companion quests and you'll spend hours upon hours just traveling on planets with zero sense of urgency but despite of that there's not enough atmosphere or something pulling you into the fiction to really make you care enough to do that sort of filler shit.
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Mar 1, 2017 2:33:57 GMT
Can Sara Ryder please stop smiling in all her expressions? That beginning was so cringy Female Ryder is Flashpoint Joker.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 1, 2017 2:37:11 GMT
The Inquisition you run was a complete letdown from a story-standpoint too. To clarify a bit it's not the structure of the story in terms of plot I find to be at fault, it was the sense of rising and falling tension that was completely missing. Zero urgency, full-on Mary-Sue adventure instead creating a sense of "anything we do is just fun and games". Isn't this a problem with the open-world concept?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 2:38:56 GMT
Since there's a lot of back and forth about DA:I again I just had to think back long and hard about what it is about that game, so here's the skinny: First off, MMO-time-sink design was indeed awful. DA:O has a lot of low-effort quests too in Denerim for example. You go to a board and check boxes to assing yourself to a series of quests that have barebones context. Then you go to a house or bring up the map of Denerim and travel to the isolated locations containing the quest objectives. It's very focused and quickly done and completing a quest is always satisfying in some small if it's in an RPG where you get XP or loot from it. In DA:I however these kinds of quests are thrown at you, not just when entering the hub area, but in every main exploration area that you'll likely spend 50 hours in in total you'll just find these types of quests thrown at you from all sides... for 50 hours total. That amounts to a lot of boring filler that doesn't stimulate you intellectually in any way, only the sights and the combat can do that job for you... but it just didn't click for me. The combat was a lot of holding down the R2 trigger for 10 minutes at a time, watching that Barrier meter go down so I knew I had to switch to the other mage and re-apply it or something. Make Sure Cassandra had her Guard up so we wouldn't wipe, but when this gameplay goes on for maybe 10 hours at a time before you reach the next point of going to a story-driven scene or something, the game just starts to bore you to tears and when that feeling sets in you realize, as you're playing, that you're not enjoying yourself. In the end the game is tainted by that feeling to me. I could always escape some of ME1's boredom by rushing through the main quest and skipping dialogue and not do whatever I thought was boring but I was never forced to do inconsequential fluff if I didn't wanna for several hours. DA:O, which I'm playing right now also keeps me engaged by having neatly scripted areas and combat encounters the entire game that always take me to the next part of the game somehow. I know I'm exhausting content and I'm never thrown back to someplace where I know there's nothing left and I'm not forced to traverse through half of it to reach the next meaningful objective. Because the game-design is focused like that the companion content is also very well balanced just as it is in ME2 for example. I just don't care for the excessive amount of meandering there was in DA:I because the main plot had zero sense of direction due to having to compromise so hard with exploration zones that were full of side-quest litter, just so I could raise some arbitrary score called "power" to do whatever I actually wanted to. It ended up being a series of one-off character vignettes that unlike ME2 actually felt more like ME1-companion quests in that they only had one cutscene sometimes they just required you to go to a location in The Hinterlands for instance and defeat a generic boss-enemy and then some choice, but it felt like the meat of the story at times. Then once you went to the main story mission it was like ME1's Noveria, Feros or Ilos but just like an ME3 mission instead so it was completely linear in exclusive maps but there was no sense of link between the hub, the exploration areas and then the main-quest area, and most importantly, no buildup at all. Each main mission just shows you showing up in the middle of some big moment as if a huge amount of levels and cutscenes had been cut from the game. The time skips were super jarring. All in all it just felt lacklustre to me. If I can tell a game has flaws and those flaws really hamper my enjoyment as I'm playing it then it turns into a bad lasting impression, and such is the case of DA:I for me. There you have it. Over and done with. So, more or less what I said? I got you fam.
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Post by panzerwzh on Mar 1, 2017 2:38:59 GMT
The Inquisition you run was a complete letdown from a story-standpoint too. To clarify a bit it's not the structure of the story in terms of plot I find to be at fault, it was the sense of rising and falling tension that was completely missing. Zero urgency, full-on Mary-Sue adventure instead creating a sense of "anything we do is just fun and games". Isn't this a problem with the open-world concept? Not an issue in HoS and B&W.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 1, 2017 2:42:16 GMT
Clearly not if you look at Witcher 3. It's not perfect at all as an open-world story game but it definitely transcended the genre in a sense. It was designed so every major area within the open-world spaces led to an area-specific quest and a part of the main quest. You'd have to complete the start of the area-specific quest until the main quest would be over for that area and then you could move on, but along the way you'd discover plenty of side-content and NPCs and upon being done with the main quest you'd get the offer to keep going with the area-specific side-quest at which point had been built up so well that you kinda wanted to see where it ultimately went. You can dislike the combat, the slow pace or the fact that I'm making yet another TW3 comparison however much you want to, but you can't deny Witcher 3 had excellent design as an open-world game in regards to making the narrative feel truly intertwined with it in a way that made you listen and care for it.
The main difference between DA:I and Witcher 3 in terms of quest and story and open world is that Witcher 3 enticed me to seek out the rest of the side-mission content, at least the area-specific stuff. DA:I told me to do it and I didn't really know why I should care and as such I was just kinda bored with it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 2:42:33 GMT
Isn't this a problem with the open-world concept? Not an issue in HoS and B&W. Remind me what those acronyms mean, again, please?
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 1, 2017 2:43:23 GMT
What villain? Mr. I was in that one DA2 DLC and now I want to destroy the world for reasons? Yea, great villain... I mean, it was mighty nice of him to not put up ANY opposition to the Inquisitor for practically the whole game, but other then that? Let's face it, DAI wasn't better then DA2, only the standards had fallen... Wanting it to be bad doesn't make it true. You can't really believe that most people who reviewed and played the game intentionally lowered their standards just to throw prizes and praises respectively at the game. Now that is nonsense. Solas was the true mastermind behind everything that happened, Corypheus was just his puppet. Nobody has dropped the standards deliberately, standards simply fell all across the industry... they have been falling for years now. ...Solas, yea, what a shocker, and all BW had to do to make that work was breaking their own lore. Never mind... as I said, maybe that story is just not for me, but I found it very lacking.
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Post by Mythgar on Mar 1, 2017 2:43:37 GMT
The Inquisition you run was a complete letdown from a story-standpoint too. To clarify a bit it's not the structure of the story in terms of plot I find to be at fault, it was the sense of rising and falling tension that was completely missing. Zero urgency, full-on Mary-Sue adventure instead creating a sense of "anything we do is just fun and games". Isn't this a problem with the open-world concept? It always has been a problem for me. TW3, MGS5, Skyrim, DA:I. I have yet to find a single open world game that really had me engrossed and interested in its plot, generally due to a lack of pacing/urgency from so many other things there are to do. Not that those games are all bad, just that they didn't pull me from a narrative perspective.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 2:44:07 GMT
Clearly not if you look at Witcher 3. It's not perfect at all as an open-world story game but it definitely transcended the genre in a sense. It was designed so every major area within the open-world spaces led to an area-specific quest and a part of the main quest. You'd have to complete the start of the area-specific quest until the main quest would be over for that area and then you could move on, but along the way you'd discover plenty of side-content and NPCs and upon being done with the main quest you'd get the offer to keep going with the area-specific side-quest at which point had been built up so well that you kinda wanted to see where it ultimately went. You can dislike the combat, the slow pace or the fact that I'm making yet another TW3 comparison however much you want to, but you can't deny Witcher 3 had excellent design as an open-world game in regards to making the narrative feel truly intertwined with it in a way that made you listen and care for it. I'll argue this until my face turns blue.
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Post by slimgrin on Mar 1, 2017 2:44:37 GMT
The Inquisition you run was a complete letdown from a story-standpoint too. To clarify a bit it's not the structure of the story in terms of plot I find to be at fault, it was the sense of rising and falling tension that was completely missing. Zero urgency, full-on Mary-Sue adventure instead creating a sense of "anything we do is just fun and games". Isn't this a problem with the open-world concept? ME:A has the potential to avoid that pitfall since we know Archon is not the primary goal. The single thing that keeps me interested is the new setting and therefore a new premise - we aren't saving the galaxy this time. I really want to see what that looks like.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 2:44:58 GMT
Isn't this a problem with the open-world concept? It always has been a problem for me. TW3, MGS5, Skyrim, DA:I. I have yet to find a single open world game that really had me engrossed and interested in its plot, generally due to a lack of pacing/urgency from so many other things there are to do. Not that those games are all bad, just that they didn't pull me from a narrative perspective. You... You understand me.
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Post by Thalandor on Mar 1, 2017 2:45:00 GMT
Well fuck that scanner, this may be a deal breaker. Good thing I have not pre-ordered yet. As far as I can tell, you scan new types of ores, plants, and animals, and it gives you blueprints or something to make new shit. I don't think you're actually gathering resources the way we were in Dragon Age. As far as the actual mining is concerned, we're supposedly going to be setting up mining drones, and settlements. It does seem a liiiiiittle too important to story missions, from this footage, but I wouldn't call it a dealbreaker. Most people who have had time with the game haven't complained about scanning yet, and it seems to work differently from how it did in Inquisition. We'll just have to see how it all plays out. Although I'd advise against pre-ordering anyway. Not really any reason to pledge your money to EA before you even get the game. It's good advice about not pre-ordering, except I actually want the pre-order stuff. I wonder if it will be part of the deluxe edition even after release... then I could wait.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 1, 2017 2:45:35 GMT
Clearly not if you look at Witcher 3. It's not perfect at all as an open-world story game but it definitely transcended the genre in a sense. It was designed so every major area within the open-world spaces led to an area-specific quest and a part of the main quest. You'd have to complete the start of the area-specific quest until the main quest would be over for that area and then you could move on, but along the way you'd discover plenty of side-content and NPCs and upon being done with the main quest you'd get the offer to keep going with the area-specific side-quest at which point had been built up so well that you kinda wanted to see where it ultimately went. You can dislike the combat, the slow pace or the fact that I'm making yet another TW3 comparison however much you want to, but you can't deny Witcher 3 had excellent design as an open-world game in regards to making the narrative feel truly intertwined with it in a way that made you listen and care for it.I'll argue this until my face turns blue. Please argue against the full sentence instead of cherry picking it apart so you can argue Witcher 3 is a bad open-world game compared to open-world games. I thought BioWare games were mainly attractive because of the story? That has now become "the characters" and fine, let's go with that but since so much of the budget is STILL spent on the writing, voice acting, animations and characters in particular, then WHY is so much of Inquisition (and shoot me if I'm wrong that MEA will be the same) about doing completely quantity-based objectives where you and your companions are just sort of there but you don't really care for any context, as long as you get your XP and POWER. The "open world as a narrative-focused game" is what fails in DA:I and it's what will fail in MEA unless the previews aren't being too modest and it just so happens the side quests are great. Just judging by this PeeBee video though, it looks like your average DA:I companion quest where the majority of "story" is handled through characters talking "blablablablabla" in the background while you're concentrated on aiming or picking up stuff because you're busy playing "open world game" or "RPG game" so you aren't really bothered to be invested in whatever amazing discovery it is you and your squad are apparently having right now... in the background, as SAM talks all nerd-talk about something the game doesn't even bother to make me care for.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 2:46:48 GMT
Isn't this a problem with the open-world concept? ME:A has the potential to avoid that pitfall since we know Archon is not the primary goal. The single thing that keeps me interested is the new setting and therefore a new premise - we aren't saving the galaxy this time. I really want to see what that looks like. I was actually watching something last night that was talking about Mass Effect 1, and some of its shortcomings in terms of writing and gameplay. The short version is that a lot of sacrifices were made for the integrity of the world. ME1 exists for the sake of building that universe. If Andromeda achieves something similar, I'll walk away quite satisfied.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 1, 2017 2:49:14 GMT
In DA:I however these kinds of quests are thrown at you, not just when entering the hub area, but in every main exploration area that you'll likely spend 50 hours in in total you'll just find these types of quests thrown at you from all sides... for 50 hours total. That amounts to a lot of boring filler that doesn't stimulate you intellectually in any way, only the sights and the combat can do that job for you... but it just didn't click for me. The combat was a lot of holding down the R2 trigger for 10 minutes at a time, watching that Barrier meter go down so I knew I had to switch to the other mage and re-apply it or something. Make Sure Cassandra had her Guard up so we wouldn't wipe, but when this gameplay goes on for maybe 10 hours at a time before you reach the next point of going to a story-driven scene or something, the game just starts to bore you to tears and when that feeling sets in you realize, as you're playing, that you're not enjoying yourself. Wait a minute... having the quests thrown at you can't actually be the problem, gamer's OCD excepted. The problem could only occur if you felt the need to do them. It also sounds like you played the game in a stupid and boring fashion. If all you're doing is holding the R2 trigger down, then of course battles are going to take longer than they might have if you'd played more efficiently. Of course, being able to play stupidly and still win is a serious design issue in itself. I think I get what you meant, but this is a rhetoric fail.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 2:49:41 GMT
I'll argue this until my face turns blue. Please argue against the full sentence instead of cherry picking it apart so you can argue Witcher 3 is a bad open-world game compared to open-world games. I didn't feel like the narrative saw any benefit from the game being open-world. I've said this so many times.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 2:51:24 GMT
As far as I can tell, you scan new types of ores, plants, and animals, and it gives you blueprints or something to make new shit. I don't think you're actually gathering resources the way we were in Dragon Age. As far as the actual mining is concerned, we're supposedly going to be setting up mining drones, and settlements. It does seem a liiiiiittle too important to story missions, from this footage, but I wouldn't call it a dealbreaker. Most people who have had time with the game haven't complained about scanning yet, and it seems to work differently from how it did in Inquisition. We'll just have to see how it all plays out. Although I'd advise against pre-ordering anyway. Not really any reason to pledge your money to EA before you even get the game. It's good advice about not pre-ordering, except I actually want the pre-order stuff. I wonder if it will be part of the deluxe edition even after release... then I could wait. It's mostly cosmetic stuff and multiplayer boosts, isn't it? As much as I like cosmetics, I imagine there will be plenty in the game already. Although I get what you mean. I always wished I had the Terminus armor in ME2.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 1, 2017 2:51:52 GMT
Wait a minute... having the quests thrown at you can't actually be the problem, gamer's OCD excepted. The problem could only occur if you felt the need to do them. It also sounds like you played the game in a stupid and boring fashion. If all you're doing is holding the R2 trigger down, then of course battles are going to take longer than they might have if you'd played more efficiently. Of course, being able to play stupidly and still win is a serious design issue in itself. Dude, no matter whether I'm playing as Inquisitor, Sera, Bull or Tactical Cam you HAVE to hold down R2 at all times to make basic attacks or make time flow. On PC you have to hold the mouse button down, and you'll do this 10 minutes at least per combat.
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Post by armass81 on Mar 1, 2017 2:54:21 GMT
People seem to forget that the past ME had some really badly designed side missions as well. As much as people love ME1, the side quest and planet exploration part of that game id call half finished at best. Everything from a pallet swapped barren worlds with nothing in them other than mineral nodes and asari disks, huge mountaisn to drive that mako over, to some copypasted warehouses and underground bases filled with the same kinds of random ENEMY IS EVERYWHERE shouters, honestly it wasnt that great.
And the loyalty missions? You mean the kind like your old pal Wrex's one, where he tells you some turian has his armor, thats of course on some same barren planet with the SAME looking warehouse youve already visited ten times over. And when you go inside you kill the guy, no banter, no arguments or dialogue, no nothing, just crummy shooting. EPIC.
Loyalty missions got better in ME2. But the rest? Was this really an improvement over side missions, you tell me readers: you land on a rocky planet, put batteries in a mech so it can SLOWLY move to a rock and shoot it so you can get some small amount of minerals, which you could get much more inside a minute with a planet scanning. Or when you land on some world, go in a random merc base and shoot everyone in sight only to read some data pads?
Im not even gonna mention the fetch quests in ME3, shiver...
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Mar 1, 2017 2:55:01 GMT
I love YT comments
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