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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 1, 2017 2:56:23 GMT
Please argue against the full sentence instead of cherry picking it apart so you can argue Witcher 3 is a bad open-world game compared to open-world games. I didn't feel like the narrative saw any benefit from the game being open-world. I've said this so many times. No of course if you really just wanted to tell a story as the sole priority, then going open world full of side-content obviously isn't the best approach, hence why Witcher 2 has a tighter plot, but for being an open world game about telling a story it's fucking excellent. It always uses the literacy of open-world to underline its messaging, whether it's the war and various camps or sad people who has been raped by fate or the shady mages in Novigrad hunted by the Witch Hunters, you sense the context of the ongoing plot wherever you go and the game neatly uses the primary game-feature, traveling, in an open-world formula to get you efficiently from one main quest and area-quest to the next and then some "hey Witcher, I need help!" quests on the way. Exactly how ME1 works just in an actual open-world setting (well, region-based but tbh Velen and Novigrad is the bulk of that game), so it's basically open world with ME1 formula and it works.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Mar 1, 2017 2:56:29 GMT
I, for one, actually really like the scanner and this new explorative mechanic.
Even if it feels quite on-rails in this quest, I think it's done really well and will no doubt become good for actual puzzle solving later on in the game (as Mr Frazer stated, this is early on introducing new elements in the game).
I don't want to be 'that guy', but it has the potential to be done much better than The Witcher 3 did Witcher vision, and that game turned out pretty fucking great one must say. Shit, we even have softcore porn this time round, Space Unicorns ahoy!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 2:59:42 GMT
I'll argue this until my face turns blue. Please argue against the full sentence instead of cherry picking it apart so you can argue Witcher 3 is a bad open-world game compared to open-world games. I thought BioWare games were mainly attractive because of the story? That has now become "the characters" and fine, let's go with that but since so much of the budget is STILL spent on the writing, voice acting, animations and characters in particular, then WHY is so much of Inquisition (and shoot me if I'm wrong that MEA will be the same) about doing completely quantity-based objectives where you and your companions are just sort of there but you don't really care for any context, as long as you get your XP and POWER. The "open world as a narrative-focused game" is what fails in DA:I and it's what will fail in MEA unless the previews aren't being too modest and it just so happens the side quests are great. Just judging by this PeeBee video though, it looks like your average DA:I companion quest where the majority of "story" is handled through characters talking "blablablablabla" in the background while you're concentrated on aiming or picking up stuff because you're busy playing "open world game" or "RPG game" so you aren't really bothered to be invested in whatever amazing discovery it is you and your squad are apparently having right now... in the background, as SAM talks all nerd-talk about something the game doesn't even bother to make me care for. Whoaaaa, you edited the whole post on me. I wouldn't say the main plot of most Bioware games are exceptionally impressive, so yes, it's mostly the characters, I would say. I don't know what you're even arguing about that for, though, since I completely agree that the side content takes away too much of the focus from the parts of the game that actually matter. This wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal if the side content was good, but I've been known to try and find ways to argue that it objectively is not. The difference between Inquisition and Andromeda, in this aspect, however, is that Andromeda isn't about the galaxy ending, so they can get away with more universe building. Much like the first Mass Effect did, with its terrible side content. Most of that second paragraph is pretty unfair judgement, though. The story was edited out, as they've said, and the dialogue during the mission itself was mostly just combat banter specific to Peebee because it's her mission. It's possible that's all the game will have, but I honestly doubt that. Then again, I assumed ME3 would have more than two dialogue choices, so I've been known to be wrong. And of course you don't care about any of that stuff anyone is talking about. You have none of the context. You know none of the characters. It's a early to mid-game mission centering around a character we know mostly nothing about. Why would you give a shit as to what's going on here?
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 1, 2017 3:01:02 GMT
People seem to forget that the past ME had some really badly designed side missions as well. As much as people love ME1, the side quest and planet exploration part of that game id call half finished at best. Everything from a pallet swapped barren worlds with nothing in them other than mineral nodes and asari disks, huge mountaisn to drive that mako over, to some copypasted warehouses and underground bases filled with the same kinds of random ENEMY IS EVERYWHERE shouters, honestly it wasnt that great. And the loyalty missions? You mean the kind like your old pal Wrex's one, where he tells you some turian has his armor, thats of course on some same barren planet with the SAME looking warehouse youve already visited ten times over. And when you go inside you kill the guy, no banter, no arguments or dialogue, no nothing, just crummy shooting. EPIC. Loyalty missions got better in ME2. But the rest? Was this really an improvement over side missions, you tell me readers: you land on a rocky planet, put batteries in a mech so it can SLOWLY move to a rock and shoot it so you can get some small amount of minerals, which you could get much more inside a minute with a planet scanning. Or when you land on some world, go in a random merc base and shoot everyone in sight only to read some data pads? Im not even gonna mention the fetch quests in ME3, shiver... I thought the ENEMIES EVERYWHERE stuff was bad obviosuly, as was the reused environments but they were all full of atmosphere with that awesome music, and sense of it all happening isolated on some uncharted planet or freighter in the middle of space. I loved that and the narrative context for pretty much any side quest that wasn't "find minerals" or similar collectathons was enthralling to me. As for Loyalty missions, yep, that's pretty basic and pretty forgettable. Guess what's gonna happen in ME:A but only slightly better? I don't think every Loyalty mission in MEA will actually feel on par with those in ME2. It's going to be DA:I "Loyalty" quests all over again which is nothing but a slightly more realized form of ME1's companion missions.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 1, 2017 3:02:34 GMT
I, for one, actually really like the scanner and this new explorative mechanic. Even if it feels quite on-rails in this quest, I think it's done really well and will no doubt become good for actual puzzle solving later on in the game (as Mr Frazer stated, this is early on introducing new elements in the game). I don't want to be 'that guy', but it has the potential to be done much better than The Witcher 3 did Witcher vision, and that game turned out pretty fucking great one must say. Shit, we even have softcore porn this time round, Space Unicorns ahoy! To me, that and the fact that the characters couldn't shut the hell up in this video just tells me that they thought "What's the easiest thing to take from Witcher 3?" since anything that's related to Wticher will obviously make fans happy
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Post by zaefkol on Mar 1, 2017 3:02:45 GMT
I do like the idea of the scanner, but I also worry that it could become the new search.
The reason my DAI playthrough took so long for me is that I can get a bit obsessive compulsive about completionism, and as a result, I need to make sure that my search hit every inch of every map. It took some time.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 1, 2017 3:03:38 GMT
I, for one, actually really like the scanner and this new explorative mechanic. Even if it feels quite on-rails in this quest, I think it's done really well and will no doubt become good for actual puzzle solving later on in the game (as Mr Frazer stated, this is early on introducing new elements in the game). I don't want to be 'that guy', but it has the potential to be done much better than The Witcher 3 did Witcher vision, and that game turned out pretty fucking great one must say. Shit, we even have softcore porn this time round, Space Unicorns ahoy! To me, that and the fact that the characters couldn't shut the hell up in this video just tells me that they thought "What's the easiest thing to take from Witcher 3?" since anything that's related to Wticher will obviously make fans happy Well, they said they increased the banter significantly... like all other dialogue. Hence only six squad mates.
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Post by Dark King on Mar 1, 2017 3:04:32 GMT
I liked what I saw in the gameplay. Obviously the guy playing wasn't that good, but I can see myself enjoying it. Still not sure about Peebee I need to see more. The only thing that really bothered me was seeing that the guns still seem change in cutscenes.
However I still think I'll enjoy the game though.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 3:05:26 GMT
I didn't feel like the narrative saw any benefit from the game being open-world. I've said this so many times. No of course if you really just wanted to tell a story as the sole priority, then going open world full of side-content obviously isn't the best approach, hence why Witcher 2 has a tighter plot, but for being an open world game about telling a story it's fucking excellent. It always uses the literacy of open-world to underline its messaging, whether it's the war and various camps or sad people who has been raped by fate or the shady mages in Novigrad hunted by the Witch Hunters, you sense the context of the ongoing plot wherever you go and the game neatly uses the primary game-feature, traveling, in an open-world formula to get you efficiently from one main quest and area-quest to the next and then some "hey Witcher, I need help!" quests on the way. Exactly how ME1 works just in an actual open-world setting (well, region-based but tbh Velen and Novigrad is the bulk of that game), so it's basically open world with ME1 formula and it works. I think a lot of the open world in Witcher could be achieved on a much smaller scale. I'm not saying it's a terrible game, and I never have (at least not seriously), but the world is so vast and some of the content is so ankle deep that it feels needlessly huge. Other games make up for this by way of placing importance on exploration, or emphasis on survival elements, or things like that, but Witcher really has the same open-world philosophy as a lot of those other games people have mentioned here. Maybe if it was a bit smaller, I'd like it more, but as is, I just feel like I'm wasting over 100 hours for a game that should really only be 30-40. And 30-40 is respectable for an RPG. I'm okay with that. I played ME1 and 2 about a dozen times each (admittedly only half that doing 100% playthroughs).
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Post by amleth on Mar 1, 2017 3:05:52 GMT
Ok now I'm seriously worried and here's why:
Scanning takes too long. Remember DA:I's overly long herb picking animation> it's that all over again, I don't need to stand for 5 secs in front of a rock in order for the game to tell me that it's a rock.Why are we just standing around for nothing?
Peebee is an idiot, i mean who the fuck would strand themselves on a volcanic planet with no extraction plan?
AI is stupid. I think has been elaborated upon but the AI is dumb as hell, on multiple occasions do we see peebee vault over cover then turn around and go back the way she came. Then get shot and die. Enemy AI is sluggish to say the least and offer no tactics than to wander around in a big stupid mob,
Speaking of which enemies often do not react when it. They neither try to take over, nor flinch, nor even act as if physics affects them. They just stand there whilst a grenade goes off in their face before realising oh I'm dead.
DA2 teleporting enemies are back.
Dialogue is awful and belongs to a 9am children's cartoon.
The mission is terribly paced, like I've skipped past parts of it because nothing is happening besides waiting for doors to open or for the player slowly jog towards a console
Also, ironically, in spite of the jetpack, combat looks even more sluggish than ME3 though perhaps that's cuz i play on insanity.
There's no real "puzzle you are just told to press this button and that all the way through. They're just chores there's no fun in it.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 1, 2017 3:08:20 GMT
And to me that is a big fucking face palm.
I don't want more banter. I don't want them to talk MORE than they do in Inquisition. I just want more scenes with them on the ship so we don't have 4 of them per character for once, and so they can make each character's arc more detailed. Instead they took the "by the numbers" route and just increased it. It's turning into Kid Icarus at this rate. (or a sonic game)
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Post by felipejiraya on Mar 1, 2017 3:08:22 GMT
The guy from IGN really screwed this gameplay video. If it was the BW guys playing it I think it would be more well received by the fans.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 1, 2017 3:09:43 GMT
The guy from IGN really screwed this gameplay video. If it was the BW guys playing it I think it would be more well received by the fans. Well, he's a games journalist... expecting that he actually can, you know, play games is... well, I'm sure it's some "ist" or "ism".
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 1, 2017 3:10:31 GMT
The guy from IGN really screwed this gameplay video. If it was the BW guys playing it I think it would be more well received by the fans. Would've had more jumpcut editing for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 3:11:48 GMT
Also, ironically, in spite of the jetpack, combat looks even more sluggish than ME3 though perhaps that's cuz i play on insanity.
This is most certainly the person playing. He was completely incompetent to the point of legitimate frustration. I'm all for everyone being able to enjoy games. But you really shouldn't trust your marketing in the hands of someone who can't play them well.
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Post by stardog89 on Mar 1, 2017 3:11:53 GMT
I couldn't bring myself to read all 20+ pages, but with all the complaining, has anyone brought up the fact that it was a pre-release build? Shouldn't we take this cautiously in regards to gameplay, AI, etc? I don't know anything about producing a game so this is an honest question; perhaps "pre-release" is only 3 weeks "pre-release"...?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 3:13:31 GMT
The guy from IGN really screwed this gameplay video. If it was the BW guys playing it I think it would be more well received by the fans. Would've had more jumpcut editing for sure. I don't think that's entirely fair. There's been a fair amount of combat footage that goes uncut long enough to see what we're dealing with. And what we're dealing with is a far cry from what IGN seems to be dealing with. I'd almost be willing to bet money it's incompetence on that journalist's part.
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Post by armass81 on Mar 1, 2017 3:15:28 GMT
People seem to forget that the past ME had some really badly designed side missions as well. As much as people love ME1, the side quest and planet exploration part of that game id call half finished at best. Everything from a pallet swapped barren worlds with nothing in them other than mineral nodes and asari disks, huge mountaisn to drive that mako over, to some copypasted warehouses and underground bases filled with the same kinds of random ENEMY IS EVERYWHERE shouters, honestly it wasnt that great. And the loyalty missions? You mean the kind like your old pal Wrex's one, where he tells you some turian has his armor, thats of course on some same barren planet with the SAME looking warehouse youve already visited ten times over. And when you go inside you kill the guy, no banter, no arguments or dialogue, no nothing, just crummy shooting. EPIC. Loyalty missions got better in ME2. But the rest? Was this really an improvement over side missions, you tell me readers: you land on a rocky planet, put batteries in a mech so it can SLOWLY move to a rock and shoot it so you can get some small amount of minerals, which you could get much more inside a minute with a planet scanning. Or when you land on some world, go in a random merc base and shoot everyone in sight only to read some data pads? Im not even gonna mention the fetch quests in ME3, shiver... I thought the ENEMIES EVERYWHERE stuff was bad obviosuly, as was the reused environments but they were all full of atmosphere with that awesome music, and sense of it all happening isolated on some uncharted planet or freighter in the middle of space. I loved that and the narrative context for pretty much any side quest that wasn't "find minerals" or similar collectathons was enthralling to me. As for Loyalty missions, yep, that's pretty basic and pretty forgettable. Guess what's gonna happen in ME:A but only slightly better? I don't think every Loyalty mission in MEA will actually feel on par with those in ME2. It's going to be DA:I "Loyalty" quests all over again which is nothing but a slightly more realized form of ME1's companion missions. I get it ME1 was full of this awe and mystery. Thats why the tonal shift in ME2 was so noticable, we went from Alien to Transformers pretty much, big butted women and huge explosions. At least the gameplay got better and the environments actually looked finished this time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 3:15:43 GMT
I couldn't bring myself to read all 20+ pages, but with all the complaining, has anyone brought up the fact that it was a pre-release build? Shouldn't we take this cautiously in regards to gameplay, AI, etc? I don't know anything about producing a game so this is an honest question; perhaps "pre-release" is only 3 weeks "pre-release"...? I take "pre-release build" comments with a grain of salt, as it's mostly an effective handwave, as opposed to legitimate reassurance. That being said, if it is the same older build that they've been showing off, it is possible certain aspects have improved. Not all of them, mind you, but some. There's also a Day 1 patch, so any minor details journalists had with the game will be addressed by Bioware now. Even though Andromeda has gone gold, there's no deadline for patches. They can fix a lot of these little nagging issues over time.
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Post by panzerwzh on Mar 1, 2017 3:17:21 GMT
I couldn't bring myself to read all 20+ pages, but with all the complaining, has anyone brought up the fact that it was a pre-release build? Shouldn't we take this cautiously in regards to gameplay, AI, etc? I don't know anything about producing a game so this is an honest question; perhaps "pre-release" is only 3 weeks "pre-release"...? Yup, the pre release build of DAI is the best version of DAI. So the irony is overflowing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 3:17:22 GMT
I thought the ENEMIES EVERYWHERE stuff was bad obviosuly, as was the reused environments but they were all full of atmosphere with that awesome music, and sense of it all happening isolated on some uncharted planet or freighter in the middle of space. I loved that and the narrative context for pretty much any side quest that wasn't "find minerals" or similar collectathons was enthralling to me. As for Loyalty missions, yep, that's pretty basic and pretty forgettable. Guess what's gonna happen in ME:A but only slightly better? I don't think every Loyalty mission in MEA will actually feel on par with those in ME2. It's going to be DA:I "Loyalty" quests all over again which is nothing but a slightly more realized form of ME1's companion missions. I get it ME1 was full of this awe and mystery. Thats why the tonal shift in ME2 was so noticable, we went from Alien to Transformers pretty much. Transformers? Ouch. I'd say more like... Star Trek to Star Wars. At least from what I've heard about Star Trek. A lot of the universe stuff took a backseat to action packed encounters and badassery, but it was still a pretty solid experience, and a thrilling adventure. Mass Effect 3, on the other hand...
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Post by stardog89 on Mar 1, 2017 3:19:02 GMT
I couldn't bring myself to read all 20+ pages, but with all the complaining, has anyone brought up the fact that it was a pre-release build? Shouldn't we take this cautiously in regards to gameplay, AI, etc? I don't know anything about producing a game so this is an honest question; perhaps "pre-release" is only 3 weeks "pre-release"...? I take "pre-release build" comments with a grain of salt, as it's mostly an effective handwave, as opposed to legitimate reassurance. That being said, if it is the same older build that they've been showing off, it is possible certain aspects have improved. Not all of them, mind you, but some. There's also a Day 1 patch, so any minor details journalists had with the game will be addressed by Bioware now. Even though Andromeda has gone gold, there's no deadline for patches. They can fix a lot of these little nagging issues over time. Maybe it's just blind optimism on my part.
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Post by kingjuly on Mar 1, 2017 3:19:14 GMT
Oh hey look, more people hating everything they saw.
Firstly if it looked like there was a lot of hand holding it was because it was apparently a tutorial for a specific mechanic. Or at least thats what the devs have said.
Secondly, if you dont like PeeBee...thats perfectly valid. Just remember that this is only a single mission, she has a ton of other dialogue outside of this that you might end up enjoying more. Dont write her off until you play the full game.
Anyway, I enjoyed what I saw. It looked like it played really well, the graphics (design and actual fidelity) looked great and the combat looked fun despite the person playing being a complete melon. Still very much hyped for this game.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 1, 2017 3:20:11 GMT
I, for one, actually really like the scanner and this new explorative mechanic. Even if it feels quite on-rails in this quest, I think it's done really well and will no doubt become good for actual puzzle solving later on in the game (as Mr Frazer stated, this is early on introducing new elements in the game). I don't want to be 'that guy', but it has the potential to be done much better than The Witcher 3 did Witcher vision, and that game turned out pretty fucking great one must say. Shit, we even have softcore porn this time round, Space Unicorns ahoy! To me, that and the fact that the characters couldn't shut the hell up in this video just tells me that they thought "What's the easiest thing to take from Witcher 3?" since anything that's related to Wticher will obviously make fans happy Well, at least it doesn't look headache inducing like that goddamn witcher sense.
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Post by armass81 on Mar 1, 2017 3:20:34 GMT
I get it ME1 was full of this awe and mystery. Thats why the tonal shift in ME2 was so noticable, we went from Alien to Transformers pretty much. Transformers? Ouch. I'd say more like... Star Trek to Star Wars. At least from what I've heard about Star Trek. A lot of the universe stuff took a backseat to action packed encounters and badassery, but it was still a pretty solid experience, and a thrilling adventure. Mass Effect 3, on the other hand... Prequels maybe... Other than the ending and fetch quests and the story inconsistancies and retcons, plus some stream lining, i didnt see that much problem in the game tbh. Had the best combat in the series bar none. I liked Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs and the leviathan dlc. Javik was a great troll character. Solid 8.0/10 id say despite its flaws.
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