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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 5, 2017 18:40:12 GMT
Except no it's not. I'm not responsible for anyone's actions but my own. Even if it were theoretically possible for me to control other people with a comparable philosophy to mine, that would be rather adverse to the point of the philosophy to begin with. I agree, but you should understand why people form these opinions on feminism, given the type of feminists that tend to become the most prominent. Agreed... in essence, it's not personal feminism, that the problem, it's institutionalized feminism. It's quite ironic, really, while we hear about institutionalized sexism all the time, I never actually heard of an actual ministry, party or governmental agency of sexism... for feminism and women rights, however, there are hundreds... thousands, even.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 5, 2017 18:42:47 GMT
...and I can't blame him. Being a father myself, and seeing how men have been portrayed over the past decades, these thoughts are so utterly ingrained in all of us, we don't even question them anymore. On the topic of "men have such a hard life compared to women", I can only say two things: 1) Women still have no clue about men, just as the other way around... no amount of gender studies will change that. 2) So, 1 in 3 women will experience violence in her life, well, using the same metrics, it would be 1 in 1 men... I think that's still a quite privileged position, right? Actually, I'm pretty convinced western society would seize to exist if people actually realized how men work compared to women... that we can be/are just as valuable and vulnerable as women... society - humanity - needs men to be "those that can take it"... and all we ever needed in return was acknowledgement/respect. I'll leave it to imagination what would happen if that dynamic no longer worked... @lady Artifice: Ops, sorry, I misunderstood your position, my bad.
Sorry, I just read a united nations fact sheet and it says "On average, at least one in three women is beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused by an intimate partner in the course of her lifetime." Soooooooooo Id say it isnt exactly a privileged position to be honest Also 85 percent of domestic abuse victims are women, 15% are men, because its a privileged position... right???
Yea, according to whom? Actually, according to the US ministry of justice, we are somewhere around 60-40... but that's the thing, if you have feminist academia and feminist organizations running the numbers. As I said, read more... much more.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Mar 5, 2017 18:43:20 GMT
Except no it's not. I'm not responsible for anyone's actions but my own. Even if it were theoretically possible for me to control other people with a comparable philosophy to mine, that would be rather adverse to the point of the philosophy to begin with. I agree, but you should understand why people form these opinions on feminism, given the type of feminists that tend to become the most prominent. I should hope that I do understand those generalizations at least somewhat, since it would be exceedingly difficult to argue against them otherwise.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 5, 2017 18:50:32 GMT
Sorry, I just read a united nations fact sheet and it says "On average, at least one in three women is beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused by an intimate partner in the course of her lifetime." Soooooooooo Id say it isnt exactly a privileged position to be honest Also 85 percent of domestic abuse victims are women, 15% are men, because its a privileged position... right???
Considering that other feminist "facts" were soundly debunked, such as the outright false "one in 4/5 women are raped while in college", or the misleading "wage gap" (which is actually an earning gap for the most part, and happens in most cases due to the chosen careers of men Vs. women, an other factors such as individual assertiveness and ability to negotiate), I'm going to need to see what these things are based on before I actually buy into them.
I mean, the UN called Anita Sarkeesian to speak as an "expert", that alone makes their assertions on this subject suspect.
To be fair, I've spent the last 10 years as a hobbyist political/societal analyst... it's quite a chore to get the complete picture nowadays.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 18:51:50 GMT
Sorry, I just read a united nations fact sheet and it says "On average, at least one in three women is beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused by an intimate partner in the course of her lifetime." Soooooooooo Id say it isnt exactly a privileged position to be honest Also 85 percent of domestic abuse victims are women, 15% are men, because its a privileged position... right???
Yea, according to whom? Actually, according to the US ministry of justice, we are somewhere around 60-40... but that's the thing, if you have feminist academia and feminist organizations running the numbers. As I said, read more... much more.
www.statisticbrain.com/domestic-violence-abuse-stats/
"Sources: U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics"
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Mar 5, 2017 18:54:02 GMT
Ah, there is a saying about statistics : Never trust any statistics you didn't forge yourself.
That goes for both camps.
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Post by Camel on Mar 5, 2017 18:55:25 GMT
Oh, great! People turn another thread into a political mudslinging.
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Post by vonuber on Mar 5, 2017 19:06:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 19:07:03 GMT
For some reason I can't access the source to actually see it, I guess I'm supposed to take their word for it that these are official DoJ stats?
Heh, well the same could be said about youtube videos being genuine I guess but I wont get into that
Try this???
www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4536
"From 1994 to 2010, about 4 in 5 victims of intimate partner violence were female."
Ill try and find a more recent one if you like, that just took about 2 seconds googling and a quick page swap on the bureau of justice statistics website
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Mar 5, 2017 19:10:19 GMT
Yea, according to whom? Actually, according to the US ministry of justice, we are somewhere around 60-40... but that's the thing, if you have feminist academia and feminist organizations running the numbers. As I said, read more... much more.
www.statisticbrain.com/domestic-violence-abuse-stats/
"Sources: U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics"
That's not a link to the U.S. Dept of Justice. It doesn't even provide a link to the source of its data.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Mar 5, 2017 19:12:02 GMT
For some reason I can't access the source to actually see it, I guess I'm supposed to take their word for it that these are official DoJ stats?
Heh, well the same could be said about youtube videos being genuine I guess but I wont get into that
Indeed, you shouldn't. That's whataboutism, and it's not an argument.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 5, 2017 19:12:06 GMT
For some reason I can't access the source to actually see it, I guess I'm supposed to take their word for it that these are official DoJ stats? Could be behind a paywall, but even if not: He is right, the summary is accurate, but when you read the actual studies, you realize that many things simply haven't been looked at... men under reporting, proxy violence, other forms of abuse, etc. All that's a non sequitur anyhow, since I wasn't revering to intimate partner violence in my original statement, I was referring to physical violence in general... and yes, in the west, only 1 in 3 women experience physical violence at all, over their whole life, ever.
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Post by Wulfram on Mar 5, 2017 19:13:21 GMT
If both men and women have an equal chance of being leaders, then there will inevitably be periods when either men or women appear to predominate. You need a decent sample size to see if there's a real bias going on. There being 4 high ranking women in the game isn't an "extreme". It only seems like one because our society still makes us expect leaders to be male by default. I think it IS an extreme if all the vastly different top positions are held by women - as I said, I would say the same thing if it were all men. There is no reason to believe that one gender must dominate in all the leadership positions, well, unless we are going to resurrect the 1900's in reverse where men are the oppressed gender this time. I think the human race has evolved out of this weirdness, in ME in the year 2185. All the top positions aren't held by women. We've got Alec as pathfinder, and the salarian politician guy. Even if we ignore Alec, we've got as far as I can see 4 women in genuinely "top" positions (Garson, Addison, Nakmor and Kelley). The odds of 4 people sharing the same gender by chance is 1 in 8, assuming a population is 50/50, which is not all weird or extreme. 1 in 8 coincidences happen all the time.
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Post by Banul on Mar 5, 2017 19:16:49 GMT
I'd like to congratulate brunobyof on his 10/10 troll thread for making it to page 10. I'll be honest, I thought it was pretty weak bait but I guess people can't help debating gender politics on a video game forum Attachment Deleted
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Post by dalinne on Mar 5, 2017 19:22:10 GMT
Amen, sister. Toyish Batphone , it means both, men and women, we must take responsability when we see unjustice. And we both, men and women, can be helped when unjustice and danger are upon us. So yeah, you are right in one part but at the same time it doesn't eliminate the responsability you have with other human beings. The difference is now the responsability is shared also with women, with all the good things and the bad things attached. I'm sure that writing a big text on Facebook isn't helping anyone. what? EDIT: I'm gonna extend this question to all this thread: WHAt?
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Post by Revan Reborn on Mar 5, 2017 19:28:02 GMT
The nuclear reactor core is about to have a total meltdown! Abort! Abort!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 19:33:35 GMT
For some reason I can't access the source to actually see it, I guess I'm supposed to take their word for it that these are official DoJ stats? Could be behind a paywall, but even if not: He is right, the summary is accurate, but when you read the actual studies, you realize that many things simply haven't been looked at... men under reporting, proxy violence, other forms of abuse, etc. All that's a non sequitur anyhow, since I wasn't revering to intimate partner violence in my original statement, I was referring to physical violence in general... and yes, in the west, only 1 in 3 women experience physical violence at all, over their whole life, ever.
I dont pay for it, found it on google and *she, just saying
I was a little worried there for a moment the discussion about sources would go on foreevveerrr... like... I dont have time for that (I know its important to you guys though, which is why I tried to get sources and stuff)
As a whole though, I wouldnt say any gender is more privileged than the other... I think all genders are generally victims of bad things, so eh
Anyway, Mass Effect Andromeda... Im looking forward to it, I cant wait, and women being in charge doesnt matter in my view
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 19:35:45 GMT
I'd like to congratulate brunobyof on his 10/10 troll thread for making it to page 10. I'll be honest, I thought it was pretty weak bait but I guess people can't help debating gender politics on a video game forum And we all contribute to it don't we?
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 5, 2017 19:36:48 GMT
All the top positions aren't held by women. We've got Alec as pathfinder, and the salarian politician guy. Even if we ignore Alec, we've got as far as I can see 4 women in genuinely "top" positions (Garson, Addison, Nakmor and Kelley). The odds of 4 people sharing the same gender by chance is 1 in 8, assuming a population is 50/50, which is not all weird or extreme. 1 in 8 coincidences happen all the time. I don't really care much about this, but let's stop the obfuscation here, this is likely just another BW statement. Not a "coincidence". I put it down to pandering through bad writing, but yea... Anywho... MEA, yea! Right...?
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Post by Wulfram on Mar 5, 2017 19:49:01 GMT
All the top positions aren't held by women. We've got Alec as pathfinder, and the salarian politician guy. Even if we ignore Alec, we've got as far as I can see 4 women in genuinely "top" positions (Garson, Addison, Nakmor and Kelley). The odds of 4 people sharing the same gender by chance is 1 in 8, assuming a population is 50/50, which is not all weird or extreme. 1 in 8 coincidences happen all the time. I don't really care much about this, but let's stop the obfuscation here, this is likely just another BW statement. Not a "coincidence". If it is a statement, its not one that interferes with the coherence or verisimilitude of the setting, so you're right not to care about it. That is my point.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 5, 2017 20:05:35 GMT
I think it IS an extreme if all the vastly different top positions are held by women - as I said, I would say the same thing if it were all men. There is no reason to believe that one gender must dominate in all the leadership positions, well, unless we are going to resurrect the 1900's in reverse where men are the oppressed gender this time. I think the human race has evolved out of this weirdness, in ME in the year 2185. All the top positions aren't held by women. We've got Alec as pathfinder, and the salarian politician guy. Even if we ignore Alec, we've got as far as I can see 4 women in genuinely "top" positions (Garson, Addison, Nakmor and Kelley). The odds of 4 people sharing the same gender by chance is 1 in 8, assuming a population is 50/50, which is not all weird or extreme. 1 in 8 coincidences happen all the time. Wouldn't the correct question be what are the odds of at least four out of six people sharing the same gender? Or four out of seven or more depending on how we're counting top positions.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Mar 5, 2017 20:40:04 GMT
How much before the lock?
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Post by Lady Artifice on Mar 5, 2017 20:40:34 GMT
If it is a statement, its not one that interferes with the coherence or verisimilitude of the setting, so you're right not to care about it. That is my point. While I don't really care about the "issue" itself, I do find political statements in my entertainment to be an annoyance. I detest preaching.
Is it necessarily preaching? If it's not discussed, not treated with special attention within the setting, does the simple act of involving something that happens to be politically controversial (like women in roles of authority) in the real world automatically equate to preaching? A writer's worldview almost always informs their writing, and almost any story I can think of is subject to that. Anything can be political in a specific crowd, but this example might yet avoid preaching.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Mar 5, 2017 20:41:35 GMT
How much before the lock? From what I've seen, this thread has been more tame than a lot of similar ones on old BSN.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 21:08:16 GMT
Ladies playing a big role in Andromeda exploration is good.
I just want BioWare to STOP hitting female characters with UGLY STICK.
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