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Post by simsimillia on Mar 3, 2017 22:36:36 GMT
I'm cool with this. There was a mod for DAI that did this on PC already and it made the convos better. Of course cinematic dialogues are better, but with the amount we'll most likely been getting I don't think it's a problem. It's certainly better than having Garrus excuse himself with Calibrations over and over again because his dialogue is so quickly depleted.
I hope they mix it up more than DAI. I don't think every twat of random NPC needs cinematic dialogue or when you just go about simple "investigate exposition dumps"
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Post by wolfsite on Mar 3, 2017 22:42:13 GMT
People will really flip there shit about anything.... good thing the BSN has some professional shit flippers.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 3, 2017 22:46:26 GMT
There's a choice, minor quest procedural dialogue or no dialogue at all. This seems to have been executed a ton better than DAI and there appear to be more cutscenes generally anyway.
This is nothing to get uptight about without evidence of poor execution (and this isn't that)
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Post by stealthfox94 on Mar 3, 2017 22:48:37 GMT
Man you guys are really searching for stuff to bitch about at this point, this is just sad.
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Post by Cypher on Mar 3, 2017 22:51:58 GMT
I don't need a full on cutscene to talk to a dude at the door.
edit: And clearly, it's more of a MGS4/MGS5 style gameplay to cutscene seamless transition that they immediately go on and interrupt, so for all you know, the camera gradually shifts into traditional cutscene style.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 3, 2017 22:57:31 GMT
Camera lock is beneficial because it forces the player to focus on a significant frame in scenes with multiple characters, physical interactions, or setting modifications.
If you're just going to be conversing with someone one on one with no actual interaction and with nothing of relevance occurring in the background, locking the camera is pointless. You can lock the camera, but it won't do anything. You'll just see the camera going back and forth between the two.
Granted, you could ask for more of the above in regular conversations, such as more animations when talking to these NPCs. It's going to come at the cost of less dialogue options where they matter.
As an RPG player, I prefer having more dialogue. Don't you?
And before you use other games as a comparison, do remember that BioWare games devote a significant portion of their budget on companion writing and scenes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 23:01:09 GMT
Camera lock is beneficial because it forces the player to focus on a significant frame in scenes with multiple characters, physical interactions, or setting modifications. If you're just going to be conversing with someone one on one with no actual interaction and with nothing of relevance occurring in the background, locking the camera is pointless. You can lock the camera, but it won't do anything. You'll just see the camera going back and forth between the two. Granted, you could ask for more of the above in regular conversations, such as more animations when talking to these NPCs. It's going to come at the cost of less dialogue options where they matter. As an RPG player, I like having more options. And before you use other games as a comparison, do remember that BioWare games devote a significant portion of their budget on companion/crew writing and scenes. I'm just glad it's not like Oblivion. You can get a heart attack from those convos!
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 3, 2017 23:02:56 GMT
Stop right there criminal scum!
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Post by Warrick on Mar 3, 2017 23:04:21 GMT
Please don't hate me, but I think those gifs look better than traditional cutscenes.
I liked the idea from Inquisition, just not the execution since the camera didn't let us look at the faces. But in general I'm in favour of everything that melts together all types of gameplay. Much more natural flow than stiff shot - reverse shot.
I hope we can walk away from conversations too and pull out a gun whenever we like.
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Post by peebee on Mar 3, 2017 23:38:33 GMT
Honestly if it's some random NPC I don't really care about the far away camera. But in DA:I for example, there were moments I felt were a bit inappropriate like when Cassandra finally tells us about her brother and it's that far away, it feels impersonal dunno, the camera makes it harder to pay attention. I also don't mind if the character has said their piece and doesn't have more dialogue at the time, I don't need repetition.
However I think it'll be different on MEA cause those seem like random Krogan and at least the camera gets a bit closer.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 4, 2017 0:35:36 GMT
I have a feeling the soundmix problems may persist but obviously it's just a gut-reaction. But yes, that was like when you notice the 59fps in Mario Kart 8 or the stutter in Witcher 3 - you can't stop noticing it and it bothers you. If you're going to spend several hours with some sort of main mechanic listening to characters talk it has to be well implemented, there can't be too notable rough corners. It's like the camera when you close rifts in DA:I too which was some attempt to make it half-cinematic but if you started turning it you would see that the FOV and Pivot was waaaay off and the camera would eventually focus on some nothingness that was right next to the Herald and not the Herald himself. Same with the camera thing in DA:I as well as the party-conversations in Citadel DLC. The pivot isn't correctly placed and it ends up looking broken in terms of the "free cinematography" they try to make.
A lot of games have these slope-camera controls for cinematic moments and stuff. GTA also zooms in during certain transitions and Witcher 3 zooms in closer if you go indoors, but it has to be properly designed so it doesn't start to bother you.
I know some of you didn't notice or care - what can I say? We're a nitpicky bunch but it is just something I'm very iffy about. To quote the lead designer the trilogy "Mass Effect is a million dollar mansion. If one window has a crack in it the whole thing falls apart". To me that is true of the main mechanics. If most of it looks great and high quality there can't be obvious issues like the camera alignment and pivot being wrongly placed like in DA:I if they absolutely must avoid using normal cutscene cameras.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 4, 2017 0:44:19 GMT
Are you nitpicky folks worth appeasing?
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Post by aard on Mar 4, 2017 10:29:17 GMT
Are you nitpicky folks worth appeasing? I dont think an uncinematic Dialogue Camera in a Dialoge heavy Game is a nitpick. I think most of us hated it in DA:I .. How much of a Problem it is(if at all) will totally depend on how much it is used. As i said before if its just some Minor Planet Side Quest here and there i think we all will be fine with it. Nobody though wants that when talking to Companions ever again i think..
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Post by Lawrence0294 on Mar 4, 2017 14:54:43 GMT
I gotta say, I dislike nitpicking and value good criticism, but this pan camera in DA:I made me throw up my insides. To simply put it, it profoundly devalued conversations by not letting me see characters emotions and made interactions lifeless and dull.
So I'm quite disappointed it seems to be making a return. I'd rather have less dialogue but more profound and interesting interactions with characters.
That said, the panning looks better implemented than in DA:I so it maybe not as bad. I'd like to really see it in action before making any complete judgement.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 14:56:44 GMT
Stop right there criminal scum! My favorite was the camera zooming me on a face standing over my bed! :gasp:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 15:01:48 GMT
I gotta say, I dislike nitpicking and value good criticism, but this pan camera in DA:I made me throw up my insides. To simply put it, it profoundly devalued conversations by not letting my see characters emotions and made interactions lifeless and dull. So I'm quite disappointed it seems to be making a return. I'd rather have less dialogue but more profound and interesting interactions with characters. That said, the panning looks better implemented than in DA:I so it maybe not as bad. I'd like to really see it in action before making any complete judgement. So, you'd rather get all your side-quests via data-pads, emails and terminal hacks. Obtaining a side-quest is, quite often, a "lifeless" dialogue anyways. I don't see a need to give them first-class cinematics at the expense of more emotive dialogues where the PC makes actual dialogue choices. From what I've seen, there are plenty of close cutscenes with dialogue wheels or when something emotive is being said. Obviously the conversations shown are just directional - directing us to a side-quest or just letting us through a door. Unless people start showing instances where this is being used during emotive and important conversations, I'm not going to start getting upset about it. I'd rather overhear someone than have to pretend to covertly hack a terminal in someone's office (like in Palin's office in ME1) to get a side mission.
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Post by disi on Mar 4, 2017 15:02:05 GMT
I will watch some gameplay before I make a decision to buy. If this is where they are going, unengaging dialogue with lots of shooting...
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Post by Lawrence0294 on Mar 4, 2017 15:35:09 GMT
I gotta say, I dislike nitpicking and value good criticism, but this pan camera in DA:I made me throw up my insides. To simply put it, it profoundly devalued conversations by not letting my see characters emotions and made interactions lifeless and dull. So I'm quite disappointed it seems to be making a return. I'd rather have less dialogue but more profound and interesting interactions with characters. That said, the panning looks better implemented than in DA:I so it maybe not as bad. I'd like to really see it in action before making any complete judgement. So, you'd rather get all your side-quests via data-pads, emails and terminal hacks. Obtaining a side-quest is, quite often, a "lifeless" dialogue anyways. I don't see a need to give them first-class cinematics at the expense of more emotive dialogues where the PC makes actual dialogue choices. From what I've seen, there are plenty of close cutscenes with dialogue wheels or when something emotive is being said. Obviously the conversations shown are just directional - directing us to a side-quest or just letting us through a door. Unless people start showing instances where this is being used during emotive and important conversations, I'm not going to start getting upset about it. I'd rather overhear someone than have to pretend to covertly hack a terminal in someone's office (like in Palin's office in ME1) to get a side mission. Quite the contrary, what I am longing for are meaningful and compelling sidequests. Sure have some data-pads and emails here and there to tell some non-dialogue stories but I want sidequests that are emotionally rewarding, whether it's funny, tragic etc. I dislike this segregation DA:I created by giving cinematics to main plot stories but pan camera for sidequests. It really made them shallow at best and, for the most part, abysmall. I can't remember everything of DA:I as it was some time ago but I remember giving back the ring of a women's dead husband. It could've been pretty emotional had we been able to see her face expression but instead the quest was a fetchquest that had to emotional impact. All in all, I'm yearning for deep sidequests and providing cinematic cameras is important to provide that imo.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 15:50:12 GMT
So, you'd rather get all your side-quests via data-pads, emails and terminal hacks. Obtaining a side-quest is, quite often, a "lifeless" dialogue anyways. I don't see a need to give them first-class cinematics at the expense of more emotive dialogues where the PC makes actual dialogue choices. From what I've seen, there are plenty of close cutscenes with dialogue wheels or when something emotive is being said. Obviously the conversations shown are just directional - directing us to a side-quest or just letting us through a door. Unless people start showing instances where this is being used during emotive and important conversations, I'm not going to start getting upset about it. I'd rather overhear someone than have to pretend to covertly hack a terminal in someone's office (like in Palin's office in ME1) to get a side mission. Quite the contrary, what I am longing for are meaningful and compelling sidequests. Sure have some data-pads and emails here and there to tell some non-dialogue stories but I want sidequests that are emotionally rewarding, whether it's funny, tragic etc. I dislike this segregation DA:I created by giving cinematics to main plot stories but pan camera for sidequests. It really made them shallow at best and, for the most part, abysmall. I can't remember everything of DA:I as it was some time ago but I remember giving back the ring of a women's dead husband. It could've been pretty emotional had we been able to see her face expression but instead the quest was a fetchquest that had to emotional impact. All in all, I'm yearning for deep sidequests and providing cinematic cameras is important to provide that imo. Still, it beats having them introduced by data-pad. There is only so much meaningful, emotive dialogue with full cutscenes that can be put into a game without busting the bank on computer resources. The ME Trilogy had the limitation of having to fit on old-gen consoles. ME:A still has to fit on the next-gen ones (Xbox One and PS4). I don't want to see main plot dialogues curtailed because of pickyune people who flip a gear by just seeing two really very likely inconsequential conversations done by panning in this game. As I said, I'm seeing plenty of evidence of meaningful cinematic conversations with full dialogue choices in this game.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Mar 4, 2017 15:55:58 GMT
Do we really need cinematic photography for the more mundane and cookie cutter dialogue sequences anyway? Personally, I'd rather BioWare focus their resources on discussions that matter the most, and leave the rest to more affordable means. The approach BioWare is endorsing with MEA is very similar to the player-created mod for DAI, that made these kinds of discussions far more engaging.
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Post by aard on Mar 4, 2017 16:09:08 GMT
Do we really need cinematic photography for the more mundane and cookie cutter dialogue sequences anyway? Personally, I'd rather BioWare focus their resources on discussions that matter the most, and leave the rest to more affordable means. The approach BioWare is endorsing with MEA is very similar to the player-created mod for DAI, that made these kinds of discussions far more engaging. I can only speak for myself but i think most here think simillar.. I am totally fine with lesser Side Quests beeing done with this Camera.. totally fine in DA:I though every Side quest and much of the Companion Dialogue was done so.. wich was horrible. I just hope bigger Side Quests and especially Companion Dialogue will have full Cutscenes. The lack of Dynamic and lack of real Facial Animation really killed most of the chances to really bond with my companions as well as if they had Cutscenes.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Mar 4, 2017 16:26:56 GMT
Do we really need cinematic photography for the more mundane and cookie cutter dialogue sequences anyway? Personally, I'd rather BioWare focus their resources on discussions that matter the most, and leave the rest to more affordable means. The approach BioWare is endorsing with MEA is very similar to the player-created mod for DAI, that made these kinds of discussions far more engaging. I can only speak for myself but i think most here think simillar.. I am totally fine with lesser Side Quests beeing done with this Camera.. totally fine in DA:I though every Side quest and much of the Companion Dialogue was done so.. wich was horrible. I just hope bigger Side Quests and especially Companion Dialogue will have full Cutscenes. The lack of Dynamic and lack of real Facial Animation really killed most of the chances to really bond with my companions as well as if they had Cutscenes. It's also worth pointing out that BioWare had to pay two male voice actors and two female voice actors to play the Inquisitor. That, as I'm sure you can imagine, was incredibly expensive, leading to likely a lot less money for other content. There's only one male voice actor and one female voice actor for the Ryder siblings, so it wouldn't be hard to believe that BioWare can invest a lot more into cinematics that are not related to the Critical Path.
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Post by aard on Mar 4, 2017 16:34:12 GMT
I can only speak for myself but i think most here think simillar.. I am totally fine with lesser Side Quests beeing done with this Camera.. totally fine in DA:I though every Side quest and much of the Companion Dialogue was done so.. wich was horrible. I just hope bigger Side Quests and especially Companion Dialogue will have full Cutscenes. The lack of Dynamic and lack of real Facial Animation really killed most of the chances to really bond with my companions as well as if they had Cutscenes. It's also worth pointing out that BioWare had to pay two male voice actors and two female voice actors to play the Inquisitor. That, as I'm sure you can imagine, was incredibly expensive, leading to likely a lot less money for other content. There's only one male voice actor and one female voice actor for the Ryder siblings, so it wouldn't be hard to believe that BioWare can invest a lot more into cinematics that are not related to the Critical Path. I hoping for it. This is really the only thing left that i am worried about. Companion Dialogue with this Pan Cam would be my worst nightmare for ME:A ..
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Post by Gray Jedi on Mar 4, 2017 16:46:39 GMT
I expected this to return i don't need a cinematic camera every time we are talking to a random or minor npc if its the tempest crew or a important character in the story then yes. But i don't need it for every conversation.
And the camera is a lot more zoomed in then DAI im fine with it.
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Post by aard on Mar 4, 2017 16:50:44 GMT
I expected this to return i don't need a cinematic camera every time we are talking to a random or minor npc if its the tempest crew or a important character in the story then yes. But i don't need it for every conversation. Exactly.. thats the thing.. I asked the devs on twitter about this.. so far no response.
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