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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 14, 2016 22:00:51 GMT
Before Trespasser was released, people complained that JoH and The Descent didn't continue the story. Then Trespasser comes out and now people complain that the 'real' ending was hidden in DLC.
Virtually the same thing happened with DAO and Witch Hunt. There's no way to win here.
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 14, 2016 22:43:13 GMT
I didn't pick any option in the poll. I can't decide.
To be truly unfair would require it to have been planned that way from the start, in my opinion. However, I suspect that BioWare often makes up stuff as they go along, at least the details of it. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the original DAI ending was supposed to be complete at the time and the post-credit scene was meant as a hook for DA4 and not any potential DLC.
Then, as they worked on their DLC, they decided to make the final piece into an epilogue for the game. This wouldn't be unfair, because it wouldn't be pre-planned, it just happened that way.
Why do I feel that BioWare makes things up as they go - or at very least make changes to a story line while the game is being developed? I'd submit the final Trespasser scene as an example, where the Inquisitor shows up sans forearm during the final hearing. There's no reaction to it from anyone. No gasp and whispers in the crowd, not even raised eyebrow from friends and lovers. It's like the scene had been animated for a healthy inquisitor and then the plot with the lost arm/anchor was added late during development, the Inquisitor model was changed to lose an arm, but the rest of the scene remained the same.
Also consider Morrigan's dire warning about Weisshaupt going silent during the original end of DAI. Two years later, during the events of Trespasser, Hawke is back from Weisshaupt, no big disaster has occurred, not even in a codex entry... the plot hook essentially just went poof.
All this points to the possibility that the plot past the ending of DAI was no pre-planned in great detail, so there's a chance that there was no malice or unfairness in this.
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Post by Warrick on Aug 14, 2016 22:49:26 GMT
The part I don't like is that I need to be aware of what happened in the DLC in order to play the next game.
Shivering Isles or Bring Down the Sky are my ideal for DLC: nice complements for enthusiasts. I think the business practice of either you buy the DLC or you have no clue what the main game is about is sleazy and discouraging. This also applies to novels, comics, and the plethora of merchandising surrounding games.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 23:15:21 GMT
I picked unfair simply because the subject makes me feel salty. You see, I'm one of those people who didn't buy the GoTY edition and is currently too broke to buy the DLC. This makes me sad because I really want to play Trespasser. I want my Cullen wedding, dammit! They could at least put it on sale. I've been waiting for months for it to go on sale on PSN and it never does. Well, not for those of us in the US anyway. It goes on sale all the time in the UK
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 23:40:53 GMT
If this was asked last year I would definitely say it's unfair because I only had DAI on a last gen console. (which made me upset when I saw the trailer for trespasser, I really wanted to play it ) I'm not sure what to think now . . .
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Post by caldain on Aug 15, 2016 0:34:09 GMT
I voted fair.
Yes, the game feels more complete with Trespasser than without but to me, the DLC was exactly as advertised, an epilogue. It was a way to tie up the game and plant seeds for the future. In that, it does a great job of leaving you wanting more. DA:I was about the Inquisition and Corypheus. The problem is that the devs never gave Cory his due so he came off as a flat character and as a result, the game ending was lackluster. But regardless, the game got an ending so its silly in my opinion to say that it wasn't a "real" ending. If Cory lived to fight another day then I would agree but he didn't.
My problem is more that a character introduced in a DLC becomes the big bad in the following game. Dishonored 2 does the same thing and frankly it's annoying.
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Post by straykat on Aug 15, 2016 0:52:40 GMT
A mistake as far as I'm concerned at least. I still haven't played Trespasser.
But to be fair, I don't like the game before that either.
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Post by githcheater on Aug 15, 2016 1:09:32 GMT
Unfair ...
I would have said fair, but the old gen players were really screwed over.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Aug 15, 2016 2:24:48 GMT
Just as long as the DLC is good it doesn't matter to me if its an ending, prequel, during the game etc, etc.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 15, 2016 4:54:14 GMT
Sorry, just to clarify, are we saying the criticism was fair/unfair? Or the decision to have that content in a dlc was fair/unfair?
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 15, 2016 5:34:09 GMT
Sorry, just to clarify, are we saying the criticism was fair/unfair? Or the decision to have that content in a dlc was fair/unfair? The latter.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 15, 2016 8:18:57 GMT
Ok, in that case: fair. We were never promised the full life story of the Inquisitor from the moment they found themselves in that cell in Haven. The story of Inquisition is about defeating Corypheus. It's not about how Corypheus found the power to create the Anchor. Nor about facing the person responsible for giving him that power and their reasoning.
Although, it is a better fair/unfair proposition than Origins. Witch Hunt had nothing to do with the story of Origins. It concluded the Wardens story.
Just as Trespasser concluded the Inquisitors story, not the story of Inquisition.
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Post by Beregond5 on Aug 15, 2016 8:20:13 GMT
I think that's a bit unfair but I don't think they could've added Trespasser's plot in the main game. Still I don't think that's completely fair. They made a similar thing by adding Cory. I mean, I didn't like they made Corypheus main villain in DA:I because I didn't play Legacy and while everyone in the game was shouting "Noo, it's Corypheus but how?" I was like "Am I supposed to know who Corypheus is?" Hopefully the same won't happen in the future. Now *that* was unfair to me. When I heard my Hawke talking about how he and Varric faced Corypheus before I was like 'When?!' The only thing I can do is headcanon that it happened in an off-screen adventure after the DA2 events, but still...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 8:34:01 GMT
It was a stupid business plan, but than again it's EA. All they know is DLC's. I feel ripped off to have to buy an expansion pack to my already expensive game.
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Post by pdusen on Aug 15, 2016 14:52:49 GMT
I reject the premise of this question.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Aug 15, 2016 16:07:19 GMT
I think it was fine because the game felt like it ended even with the reveal at the end. I wasn't expecting to tackle that stuff until the next game. Plus if we are going to have DLC (and we are) then I'd like it to be story based. The other DLCs were not my cup of tea.
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Post by KeiraH on Aug 15, 2016 16:20:14 GMT
Unfair. I suspect that everything that happens in Trespasser happens whether you play it or not (kinda like Legacy and Cory), so it is the real ending. So I imagine that the next game will be rather confusing to those who didn't play it (the inquisitor's hand and all)... unless inquisitor plays a small role, and the game will not be about chasing Solas? We'll see
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 15, 2016 20:42:34 GMT
The main unfair thing was that people with old consoles could not play the DLC. I had to loan my PC (equipment and character) to someone so they could experience Trespasser.
To my mind the story was complete in DAI until they introduced that final epilogue scene with Flemeth. Without it there was no reason to think the story wasn't over. You could walk away happy. That epilogue raised all sorts of questions that needed answering. Trespasser did this in part but also raised a whole lot more.
Whilst Trespasser, according to the developers, was meant to be completing the Inquisitor's story, I felt it did nothing of the sort. It removed the Inquisition as a major force from the game world but left it as though the character you had created was still intending being involved with subsequent events. They had a personal reason for wanting to stop Solas. In some ways Trespasser was more like an extended trailer advertising the next game, a prequel rather than an epilogue.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 15, 2016 21:01:54 GMT
The part I don't like is that I need to be aware of what happened in the DLC in order to play the next game. Shivering Isles or Bring Down the Sky are my ideal for DLC: nice complements for enthusiasts. I think the business practice of either you buy the DLC or you have no clue what the main game is about is sleazy and discouraging. This also applies to novels, comics, and the plethora of merchandising surrounding games. I do have to point out that you're basically complaining at part pf the story that has been integral to it from the start - not a single Dragon Age playthough since DAO will offer you complete information on world, lore or what happens in the story. You either have to replay different origin or grab some additional materials to have fuller picture. Is it sleazy? Maybe if it was sneaky - but DA has pretty much always made it clear that they sell us a story in chunks and not all those chunks exist in main games. It even makes sense from the way the story is designed, around it being personalized and subjective: and your experience or perception of either the tale, events or character changes the more you know about them.
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Post by Warrick on Aug 15, 2016 22:47:09 GMT
Yeah agreed, witch hunt and lair of the shadow broker are guilty of that. They're very good in terms of content, but the way they're designed (so that you're really missing out on important parts of the core of the franchise) makes me sad. Dawnguard and Dragonborn are two more examples of good DLC policy for me.
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Post by House Targaryen on Aug 15, 2016 23:21:26 GMT
Its only money, really not that much even. No need to cry about it. Wake up and realize that companies are there to make money off you, they don't care about you.
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Post by roselavellan on Aug 16, 2016 3:04:02 GMT
But... is it the real ending to DAI, or the prologue to DA4??
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Post by House Targaryen on Aug 16, 2016 3:08:37 GMT
Both
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Post by bigevil on Aug 16, 2016 4:18:00 GMT
I voted fair, for me. I can understand it being unfair for people on the older consoles who were unable to get it.
Inquisition had an ending, a complete ending. It also had a stinger, in the form of the scene with Solas and Flemeth. The stinger is not the ending, defeating Corypheus, the party and the epilogue narrated by Morrigan is the ending to Inquisition. Trespasser is in part the epilogue to the Inquisitor's story (unless the Inquisitor's story actually does continue in DA4) and the prologue/teaser for DA4. Similar accusations could be leveled at Origins. Both Awakening and Witch Hunt continue the story of the Warden, and are set after the ending of DA:O, and thus could be the 'real' ending.
Bioware certainly could do a better job of making sure there's enough introduction, information and development of characters and plots which take place outside of each main game though.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Aug 16, 2016 4:45:32 GMT
DAI got an ending. The DLC is an epilogue. I'm not going to talk fair or unfair .I mean DLCs are a slippery slope , some company just go way overboard with DLCs stuff , some others not so much. In the case of DAI , you've got a 100 hours game , wether you enjoyed it or not , there is still around 100 hours worth of content .It's the type of game I don't mind paying full price for. There was no way they could have done Trespasser during the main game.(with John Epler having to do last minute crunch time to finish the cinematics of the Iron Bull romance ...Trespasser in DAI would have been a 10 minutes affair, I very much doubt they had the manpower/time to do it) I didn't mind having an epilogue DLC at all.But I could afford it (I imagine for people who could afford DAI but not Trespasser , it sucked.And if they didn't wait for the game of the year edition it sucks too) The second point that wasn't so good was the old gen players couldn't get the DLC. This was bad. Suddenly to get the epilogue you had to buy a pc or a new console... Yepper. The main conflict within Dragon Age: Inquisition, with Corypheus as the primary antagonist and the Breach being the significant, worldwide problem, was resolved in the base game. That is what DAI dealt with, and that plot had an ending. The Trespasser DLC has to do with the DAI post-credit stinger. If they hadn't had that stinger, and just had Solas leave with nary a clue, then there wouldn't be this hubub. [edit] Lol I called Corypheus the protagonist. Woopsie...
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