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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 12, 2017 1:03:17 GMT
Yeah it's completely bizarre. Like they really think people are gonna do all that farming for mats for one person? lol. Even if, it's just not gonna be demanding in any way. Unless of course they balance is so artificially to make up for lack of squadmate customization that you will have to grind minderals for an hour just to make a single gun for Ryder, but that will be really off-putting to the whole economy system. Which means there's a good chance they'll do it >_> I just don't get it. DAI had the perfect system. "Iconic" armors with the option for heavier armors for players that wanted to go that route. And even if they don't want to do all that work at least give us 2 armors (sealed/unsealed). And set weapons. Meanwhile we still have sticky Avenger? Like. What is this.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 12, 2017 1:07:34 GMT
Well, again, getting armor choices for squadmates doesn't necessarily guarantee that we'd like any of the appearances. Oh come on, DAI has at least a few good looking armors... still better to have the chance then no option at all. You can slice it which ever way you like, but that's either a decision born of laziness or time constrains... or BW is actually serious in making MEA even more a pure shooter then we thought. A chance? Sure, there's a chance. But if they don't think that helmets are important, why would a hypothetical alternate design have helmets on some of the outfits? Remember, Iakus was talking about having breath masks instead of proper helmets and so forth; my reference to liking it in the quoted passage was based on not having such gear being the reason for the dislike. (I should have been more verbose there.)
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Post by Iakus on Mar 12, 2017 1:09:15 GMT
Then there's the more personal issue of people wanting to change the looks of their companions. ME, if I want to play a game about exploring strange worlds with harsh climates and frequently getting into gunfights, battles with cyborg-sandworms, aliens, and space-pirates, I would prefer their default look to be, oh LIKE THEY WERE GOING INTO A SITUATION EXPECTING TROUBLE AND DRESSING APPROPRIATELY!!! Well, again, getting armor choices for squadmates doesn't necessarily guarantee that we'd like any of the appearances. I guarantee that having more than one option increases the odds that a given person will like SOMETHING available.
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Post by Petroshenko on Mar 12, 2017 1:12:00 GMT
Who even cares for "maintaining iconic look at all times" though? I can understand it with SOME characters like Kreia in KOTOR 2 where the hood over her eyes really is a huge part of her character and presentation (still, she has all the standard armor slots you can use) or Mass Effect's Jack whos tatoos on the body are absolutely big part of her character. But Cora? Liam? Vetra? Really?
They implement character creator in each game knowing fully that it means various fanart, YouTube playthroughs and cosplays. etc will feature not-iconic Main character's look (Shepard, Ryder, Warden etc) yet they're fine with it. They're happy enough having the "iconic" look engrave itself in public's counciousness just with the marketing power (and of course it works)
Yet with squadmates, they somehow feel the need to control their look in literally every scenario imaginable. Why? It didn't matter that Ashely could wear any armor possible in ME1. People still saw her white-pink armor as the iconic one. I really just dont get it.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 12, 2017 1:13:11 GMT
Yeah I hated that stuff so much. And it made me feel a little uncomfortable. At least in a world with mages or biotics there is some justification for people like Jack or Dorian running around with limited clothing they had the ability to create magical shields. But there was no justification for Bull to go around like that. Unless his skinw as really thick or something. ? Bull is a Reaver. He makes PERFECT sense dressed like that. The more pain he takes the more damage he does. actually that makes an interesting bit of sense.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 12, 2017 1:14:57 GMT
Well, again, getting armor choices for squadmates doesn't necessarily guarantee that we'd like any of the appearances. I guarantee that having more than one option increases the odds that a given person will like SOMETHING available. But if the thing you want is opposed to the basic design objectives, the chance that merely offering more choices will cause them to accidentally satisfy your desire is very small. (We've had this conversation before, haven't we?)
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Post by stealthfox94 on Mar 12, 2017 1:16:32 GMT
So exactly what other RPG feature's has Andromeda "thrown out the window"??????? MEA in specifically aside of that? Pausing/giving orders in combat comes to mind... but the series as a whole, from ME has lost almost everything RPG: Non combat/social skills from ME1/2, lock picking/the hacking minigame from ME1/2, an actual inventory from ME1. I mean, sure, we get crafting now, but for that we loose gear management of our squad. Sorry you feel that way. Just keep in mind all the customization we have for Ryder's abilities, and the new dialog system. Which are an improvement to the RPG aspects of this game.
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Post by kaind on Mar 12, 2017 1:18:15 GMT
MEA in specifically aside of that? Pausing/giving orders in combat comes to mind... but the series as a whole, from ME has lost almost everything RPG: Non combat/social skills from ME1/2, lock picking/the hacking minigame from ME1/2, an actual inventory from ME1. I mean, sure, we get crafting now, but for that we loose gear management of our squad. Sorry you feel that way. Just keep in mind all the customization we have for Ryder's abilities, and the new dialog system. Which are an improvement to the RPG aspects of this game. The new dialogue system is not an improvement of the RPG aspects of this game, you just click an Icon and your character goes on a scripted spree of lines and interactions.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 12, 2017 1:18:25 GMT
Even if, it's just not gonna be demanding in any way. Unless of course they balance is so artificially to make up for lack of squadmate customization that you will have to grind minderals for an hour just to make a single gun for Ryder, but that will be really off-putting to the whole economy system. Which means there's a good chance they'll do it >_> I just don't get it. DAI had the perfect system. "Iconic" armors with the option for heavier armors for players that wanted to go that route. And even if they don't want to do all that work at least give us 2 armors (sealed/unsealed). And set weapons. Meanwhile we still have sticky Avenger? Like. What is this. ...and there is that. I mean, if all characters will have their set weapons all the time, how shoddy has your development and QA to be to STILL have this lazy placeholder bug!? That's borderline indy game stuff at this point...
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Post by Petroshenko on Mar 12, 2017 1:24:08 GMT
MEA in specifically aside of that? Pausing/giving orders in combat comes to mind... but the series as a whole, from ME has lost almost everything RPG: Non combat/social skills from ME1/2, lock picking/the hacking minigame from ME1/2, an actual inventory from ME1. I mean, sure, we get crafting now, but for that we loose gear management of our squad. A lot of true stuff, but to be fair you didn't mention some key aspects. Non-combat perks are a thing one again with waking up cryo pods. Check the list of things they do, from crafting, to vendors etc. And we won't be able to gain all of them in any single playthrough so there's actually gonna be some basic RPG mechanic of chosing what do you want to do better/easier at the espense of something else. Even ME1 didn't work like this as you could've just swapped squadmates to unlock a higher Hacking crate. Small, but still. + there's Noman progression and customization, Mako didn't have that. Fully agree on loss of tactical pause though and complete removal of squad progression & customization. It's unfortunately business as usual with this series. 1 step forward, 1 step back.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 1:25:35 GMT
This is looking less and less like something I'll preorder...
... and more and more like something I'll wait a couple of years to pick up for $20 including DLC.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 12, 2017 1:25:44 GMT
MEA in specifically aside of that? Pausing/giving orders in combat comes to mind... but the series as a whole, from ME has lost almost everything RPG: Non combat/social skills from ME1/2, lock picking/the hacking minigame from ME1/2, an actual inventory from ME1. I mean, sure, we get crafting now, but for that we loose gear management of our squad. A lot of true stuff, but to be fair you didn't mention some key aspects. Non-combat perks are a thing one again with waking up cryo pods. Check the list of things they do, from crafting, to vendors etc. And we won't be able to gain all of them in any single playthrough so there's actually gonna be some basic RPG mechanic of chosing what do you want to do better/easier at the espense of something else. Small, but still. + there's Noman progression and customization, Mako didn't have that. Fully agree on loss of tactical pause though and complete removal of squad progression & customization. It's unfortunately per usual with this series. 1 step forward, 1 step back. Wich is especially tragic if you start 5 steps back with every new game, though...
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Post by Petroshenko on Mar 12, 2017 1:26:57 GMT
Wich is especially tragic if you start 5 steps back with every new game, though... The sins starting with ME2 eh? Always gonna be a hard one to swallow especially when that game also managed to do so much well (at least by 2010 standards)
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 12, 2017 1:27:17 GMT
? Bull is a Reaver. He makes PERFECT sense dressed like that. The more pain he takes the more damage he does. actually that makes an interesting bit of sense. Like you can tell the DAI team actually made the outfits (and their derivatives) make sense. Such as Cole's rags and Solas wolf motifs and traveling gear on his clothes. They're not perfect but for the most part the character is dressed reasonably for their personality and their place on the battlefield. Even Vivienne with her cleavage while huh inducing kind of skirts by with her being so reliant on barriers since she's a front line fighter. Like even if it's not the smartest thing for them to wear their outfit is character friendly. Meanwhile for ME that's the exception not the rule. (And let me not get into how Miranda and Jacob's outfits are pure stupidity for them to wear on the field. In their quarters? Yep sure. In the field? LOL) So it makes the iconic excuse look even stupider.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 12, 2017 1:30:41 GMT
actually that makes an interesting bit of sense. Like you can tell the DAI team actually made the outfits (and their derivatives) make sense. Such as Cole's rags and Solas wolf motifs and traveling gear on his clothes. Like even if it's not the smartest thing for them to wear their outfit is character friendly. Meanwhile for ME that's the exception not the rule. (And let me not get into how Miranda and Jacob's outfits are pure stupidity for them to wear on the field. In their quarters? Yep sure. In the field? LOL) So it makes the iconic excuse look even stupider. actually the only real justification for peebees outfit is that it does match your character. On the whole 'is mea an rpg conversation?' honestly it's looking like it will be the most rpg mass effect ever.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 12, 2017 1:37:40 GMT
actually the only real justification for peebees outfit is that it does match your character. On the whole 'is mea an rpg conversation?' honestly it's looking like it will be the most rpg mass effect ever. Yep thus my use of exception not the rule. Jack's outfit did make sense (That stupid nipple belt didn't though. Either give her a tank or free the nipples the in between shit was dumb). Meanwhile we had Thane, Jacob and Miranda in the huh? pile. Like it's just off. If they want their iconic looks so bad they could do it in a way that makes sense with the lore. (A defaced suit of Cerberus armor for hazardous environments would've been just as character friendly for Jack). Also the biotics don't excuse the environments. Biotics don't protect against environmental hazards. That was stated in ME1. Not to mention using biotics constantly tires one out so even if they did it wouldn't be as efficient as just wearing armor.
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 12, 2017 1:38:20 GMT
More reason to ignore the SP for me.
Kinda wish they'd just release the MP on its own so I could avoid the clusterfuck they're calling SP all together.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 12, 2017 1:39:43 GMT
Wich is especially tragic if you start 5 steps back with every new game, though... The sins starting with ME2 eh? Always gonna be a hard one to swallow especially when that game also managed to do so much well (at least by 2010 standards) Yea, well... it had quite good characters for the most part, but it sacrificed so much of the series gameplay complexity. BW had brought some of it back in the meantime, but still.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 12, 2017 1:43:45 GMT
Who even cares for "maintaining iconic look at all times" though? I can understand it with SOME characters like Kreia in KOTOR 2 where the hood over her eyes really is a huge part of her character and presentation (still, she has all the standard armor slots you can use) or Mass Effect's Jack whos tatoos on the body are absolutely big part of her character. But Cora? Liam? Vetra? Really? They implement character creator in each game knowing fully that it means various fanart, YouTube playthroughs and cosplays. etc will feature not-iconic Main character's look (Shepard, Ryder, Warden etc) yet they're fine with it. They're happy enough having the "iconic" look engrave itself in public's counciousness just with the marketing power (and of course it works) Yet with squadmates, they somehow feel the need to control their look in literally every scenario imaginable. Why? It didn't matter that Ashely could wear any armor possible in ME1. People still saw her white-pink armor as the iconic one. I really just dont get it. I can appreciate giving each character a look that reflects their personality. But at the same time it has to stay true to the environment and setting they are in
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Post by veky359 on Mar 12, 2017 1:47:20 GMT
Who even cares for "maintaining iconic look at all times" though? I can understand it with SOME characters like Kreia in KOTOR 2 where the hood over her eyes really is a huge part of her character and presentation (still, she has all the standard armor slots you can use) or Mass Effect's Jack whos tatoos on the body are absolutely big part of her character. But Cora? Liam? Vetra? Really? They implement character creator in each game knowing fully that it means various fanart, YouTube playthroughs and cosplays. etc will feature not-iconic Main character's look (Shepard, Ryder, Warden etc) yet they're fine with it. They're happy enough having the "iconic" look engrave itself in public's counciousness just with the marketing power (and of course it works) Yet with squadmates, they somehow feel the need to control their look in literally every scenario imaginable. Why? It didn't matter that Ashely could wear any armor possible in ME1. People still saw her white-pink armor as the iconic one. I really just dont get it. I can appreciate giving each character a look that reflects their personality. But at the same time it has to stay true to the environment and setting they are in yes environment setting are biggest thing vs its stupid decision....
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 12, 2017 1:47:28 GMT
MEA in specifically aside of that? Pausing/giving orders in combat comes to mind... but the series as a whole, from ME has lost almost everything RPG: Non combat/social skills from ME1/2, lock picking/the hacking minigame from ME1/2, an actual inventory from ME1. I mean, sure, we get crafting now, but for that we loose gear management of our squad. Sorry you feel that way. Just keep in mind all the customization we have for Ryder's abilities, and the new dialog system. Which are an improvement to the RPG aspects of this game. I'd hold your horses on the dialogue system. If it's like DAI then its 3 or 4 ways to be friendly with the occasional "Act like Hitler" tossed in should you ever decide that being BFFs isn't how you want every conversation with everyone to go. And the customization is another RPG staple that's thrown out. In most squad RPGs you build a class to play a way (ie. tank, dps rogue, healer), and then your squad fills in for your weaknesses and provides balance. Now, you have 2 meat shields while you have access to every ability under the sun, which makes you more like Batman or Kratos than a traditional RPG character.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 12, 2017 1:53:14 GMT
Who even cares for "maintaining iconic look at all times" though? I can understand it with SOME characters like Kreia in KOTOR 2 where the hood over her eyes really is a huge part of her character and presentation (still, she has all the standard armor slots you can use) or Mass Effect's Jack whos tatoos on the body are absolutely big part of her character. But Cora? Liam? Vetra? Really? They implement character creator in each game knowing fully that it means various fanart, YouTube playthroughs and cosplays. etc will feature not-iconic Main character's look (Shepard, Ryder, Warden etc) yet they're fine with it. They're happy enough having the "iconic" look engrave itself in public's counciousness just with the marketing power (and of course it works) Yet with squadmates, they somehow feel the need to control their look in literally every scenario imaginable. Why? It didn't matter that Ashely could wear any armor possible in ME1. People still saw her white-pink armor as the iconic one. I really just dont get it. I can appreciate giving each character a look that reflects their personality. But at the same time it has to stay true to the environment and setting they are in To be fair, ME had no good track record for that since ME2 either. While a could buy Miranda's high tech body glove, seeing Jack enter the dead and vented collector ship with nothing but a breathing mask... yea. I'd say PeeBee is in good company. That's why I always say ME left it's hard scifie path after part one, since back then it was spacesuit or bust... how it should be pretty much all the time.
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Post by Petroshenko on Mar 12, 2017 1:54:31 GMT
The sins starting with ME2 eh? Always gonna be a hard one to swallow especially when that game also managed to do so much well (at least by 2010 standards) Yea, well... it had quite good characters for the most part, but it sacrificed so much of the series gameplay complexity. BW had brought some of it back in the meantime, but still. And for no reason. No one complained about having large armor selection, or gun selection, mods, non-combat skills, economy, repairing etc. People hated the clunky inventory because it didn't even stack duplicate items together. I still don't get how Bioware went from clunky inventory complaints and ended up with action-game in gameplay mechanics essentially. Still, as an action game in its gameplay, it worked. But if they're bringing alot of it back then why excluse the squad from that? It will only undercut and undersell the whole point of implementing richer gameplay experience, progressions, crafting, economy, non-combat perks etc. Even as barebones as the economy was in ME3, I still dabbled into it to equip whole squad with best arsenal possible and as varied as possible. If I couldn't, I would just buy 2 same guys I always use for Shep and be done with it, screw scanning clusters for 10k credits etc.
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Post by Cypher on Mar 12, 2017 1:58:29 GMT
Bioware loves to kill my hype, apparently. I just got back up to ME3 and now I'm down to Infinite Warfare.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 12, 2017 2:03:22 GMT
Yea, well... it had quite good characters for the most part, but it sacrificed so much of the series gameplay complexity. BW had brought some of it back in the meantime, but still. And for no reason. No one complained about having large armor selection, or gun selection, mods, non-combat skills, economy, repairing etc. People hated the clunky inventory because it didn't even stack duplicate items together. I still don't get how Bioware went from clunky inventory complaints and ended up with action-game in gameplay mechanics essentially. Still, as an action game in its gameplay, it worked. But if they're bringing alot of it back then why excluse the squad from that? It will only undercut and undersell the whole point of implementing richer gameplay experience, progressions, crafting, economy, non-combat perks etc. Even as barebones as the economy was in ME3, I still dabbled into it to equip whole squad with best arsenal possible and as varied as possible. If I couldn't, I would just buy 2 same guys I always use for Shep and be done with it, screw scanning clusters for 10k credits etc. What it tells me, more then anything else: Combat will only be decided by skill selection now, and not so much by gear. If I can't change the weapons/armor on my squad, it automatically means they aren't such a big factor to begin with... or at least, your squad wouldn't even profit from having, say three lighting throwing avengers. Kinda makes me feel as if the whole gear grafting might be much more of a gimmick then we where led to believable until now.
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