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Post by boyaki on Mar 14, 2017 12:16:17 GMT
Most of mass effect doesn't take place in a toxic/deadly/spacy environmnent, it is really not the case, most mission takes place in breathable cool planet or space station and in your quote I pointed several of those places on Andromeda but you totally ignore them.
If by dangerous area you mean gun fire, I would remind you that Pee Bee is not just chilling with nothing. She has a shield, gun, speed, tech and biotic abilies to defend herself that is way more than the common soldier you face in each game.
The same logic does not apply to the frontline soldier who obviously need an armor because he is the main target of gun fire so shield is not enough and the tech/biotic fighter that do not need to put herself in danger. That is the old melee warrior needs armor because they are going to get hurt and range unit need lighter gear classic principles. Not something invented by videogames but base life logic.
I know that, i was just pointing out that optimizing npc is not very interesting if they have only one way to be upgradable. In Dragon Age you can do it for multiples reasons. -> You hang out with 3 npc all the time -> You get to choose their specialization and their role, so there is more than one bonus that could be apply to them -> The game is party based, they are as strong as you are, so need to be optimized -> You can choose their ability and equipment because you get to PLAY them In Mass Effect -> Only 2 npc at all time -> They have a set class, so fixed optimization and by extension meaningless -> You could win the game easily without squadmate, their equipment does not change many thing -> You don't get to play them
So in DA game you get to customize your squadmate because they are really important to the overall gameplay so you could invest a lot of ressources on them. But doing the same in Andromeda would require more works for fewer result, I explain. 1° Each of the 6 squadmates have a very different bone structure, every human in DA share the same bone structure. Of course their is dwarf and qunari but the team already had to provide armor for them because of the npc race. 2° We could argue that we could made a biotic armor focus on ability duration, cooldown reduction or biotic damage. But unless you keep the same skin for those armor you would have to design additional armor. 3° Changing gun type. For each gun type npc have a specific behaviour : sniper get behind cover and long distance. Melee fighter go close combat. However and it may seems weird but it is a complete hell in term to AI to have adaptable behaviour, that is not just double the line code for each npc. You could see that in the trilogy, switch one squadmate weapon type and they act crazy. Having one gun type allows more AI possibility, not saying that AI is going to be good but it could be a lot worse. 4° Changing gun type is also a problem when it comes to cutscene, in one of the trailer you see Liam shooting with automated rifle. Change that weapon for a sniper rifle and it will be really weird. In that case the animator would have to stop showing npc using their gun in cutscene or having weird magic standard automated rifle appearing from nowhere. And those familiar with ME know what I am talking about it. Equip a two handed weapon to cassandra or a shield to bull and prepare yourself for a good laugh.
All those things could be done, but it would be a huge investment of game ressources, not just : "add a line of code to allow that to work" We already discuss the question of immersion in dressing up character or choosing which weapon is the best for them so i won't repeat it because it is a design choice as stated in a tweet. You may still want something like point 2 in the game but why put that on armor ? an armor that reduce damage or boost your tech ability seems logical enough. However it doesn't make sense that an armor boost my weapon damage or biotic combo damage. Can we not use the passive ability to optimize the character in one direction ? Cora investing point to boost her biotic damage or weapon damage seems a better thing from a rpg perspective than magic damage upgrade from a weapon no ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 16:57:35 GMT
I don't see the problem with Jack. We did not see her hanging in space or in acid bath no ? Try taking her to Haestrom. The entire squad will be complaining about the sun frying their shields, but there's Jack in her "iconic" nipple straps. It's ridiculous. OK, so we're not even on the subject of dress code anymore. Yes, it would be nice if companions wore environmentally appropriate gear, but that doesn't mean we should have complete control over their wardrobe. The former doesn't require the latter. I would think the environment itself would make for a pretty basic "dress code."Now you're just arguing rediuctio ad absurdum. If people want spandex or midriff baring attire on their voyages of exploration, fine. But I want an OPTION for something that makes more sense. No, you've just ignored the argument up to this point, and now you're trying to wriggle out with pseudo-intellectualism. I've not once contested the absurdity of midriffs and catsuits in space. I think they're pretty dumb given the context. Excellent. And that's the primary argument that I think most of us are making here. You have a different interpretation of the text than I do. I believe that iakus was arguing that environmental conditions function as a dress code, and anyone venturing into those conditions needs some minimal level of protection. There may be a few folks here arguing for more control of companions' attire all around, but I think most of us just want the internal consistency of seeing squadmates fully protected (in sealed suits) on missions. I'd also argue that ultimately, the developer's art department dresses up the characters like dolls. Sans mods, they have absolute control over the outfits available to any character. Until ME3, Shepard never left the Normandy without full armor and weapons. In ME3, Shepard did visit the Citadel in casual clothing - but I also noticed that there were some situations where Shepard was given a full breather helmet, even if the player had chosen to use one of the non-sealed (or visor) pieces of headgear. That was a nice touch, imho, as it gave the resulting cutscenes a degree of verisimilitude and internal consistency. I find it regrettable that the same logic does not / hasn't always been applied to squadmates.
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Post by boyaki on Mar 14, 2017 17:21:24 GMT
But isn't the armor not protecting you on that planet ? I mean if it is killing you in seconds without the shields then maybe being trap in an armor does not seem to be that great a deal, unless they have instant cooling device. The goal is not to break the shield.
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Post by hammerstorm on Mar 14, 2017 17:38:45 GMT
But isn't the armor not protecting you on that planet ? I mean if it is killing you in seconds without the shields then maybe being trap in an armor does not seem to be that great a deal, unless they have instant cooling device. The goal is not to break the shield. What do you think radiation powerful enough to fry shields is going to do to bare skin?... A nice tan of course.
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Post by boyaki on Mar 14, 2017 17:48:33 GMT
But isn't the armor not protecting you on that planet ? I mean if it is killing you in seconds without the shields then maybe being trap in an armor does not seem to be that great a deal, unless they have instant cooling device. The goal is not to break the shield. What do you think radiation powerful enough to fry shields is going to do to bare skin?... But maybe the goal of the mission is not to stay in the open ? I mean if you do that, you die, regardless of having an armor or not. If it is so hot/radioactive that you cannot survive a 3 second exposure even in a armor then it means the armor does not do anything and is a deathtrap. That is like saying a bath of lava could kill you faster without an armor sure yes, you die faster, but you die either way. Maybe avoid going into the lava in the first place. Crazy idea. We could argue that everyone should borrow an Atlas when traveling. Also when traveling on a planet so dangerous for the human body instead of taking someone who has no experience on that field and nothing to do with the mission I might want to take the one used to manipulate armor, fight with him and with actual skill. You had like 9 squadmate and only 2 you could bring, why take the naked one when you know the hazard ? I am starting to question your ability to manage human life ! Maybe you should not decide their equipment either. That is like going on Tutchanka without grunt in mass effect 2...i guess you could do it, but it is stupid.
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Post by General Mahad on Mar 14, 2017 18:00:41 GMT
We could argue that everyone should borrow an Atlas when traveling. Also when traveling on a planet so dangerous for the human body instead of taking someone who has no experience on that field and nothing to do with the mission I might want to take the one used to manipulate armor, fight with him and with actual skill. You had like 9 squadmate and only 2 you could bring, why take the naked one when you know the hazard ? I am starting to question your ability to manage human life ! Maybe you should not decide their equipment either. That is like going on Tutchanka without grunt in mass effect 2...i guess you could do it, but it is stupid. We're questioning your ability to differentiate between fantasy and reality.
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Post by boyaki on Mar 14, 2017 18:07:32 GMT
But maybe the goal of the mission is not to stay in the open ? I mean if you do that, you die, regardless of having an armor or not. If it is so hot/radioactive that you cannot survive a 3 second exposure even in a armor then it means the armor does not do anything and is a deathtrap. That is like saying a bath of lava could kill you faster without an armor sure yes, you die faster, but you die either way. Maybe avoid going into the lava in the first place. Crazy idea. We could argue that everyone should borrow an Atlas when traveling. Also when traveling on a planet so dangerous for the human body instead of taking someone who has no experience on that field and nothing to do with the mission I might want to take the one used to manipulate armor, fight with him and with actual skill. You had like 9 squadmate and only 2 you could bring, why take the naked one when you know the hazard ? I am starting to question your ability to manage human life ! Maybe you should not decide their equipment either. That is like going on Tutchanka without grunt in mass effect 2...i guess you could do it, but it is stupid. I have no idea how this incoherent rambling is supposed to explain why they designed squad members with stupid outfits if they are supposed to go to places with environmental hazards. Well it is easy to guess why they did not made every outfit in the game just to match one side mission... My incoherent rambling is using a RPG reason like taking people who fit the mission on the mission (the design behind the two teammates only) and not a person who don't fit the mission on a very very specific situational mission. You are saying that jack design is not realist because you can bring her on a very very specific mission without that having sense. But what you are actually doing is using a gameplay shortcut in the game (not having multiples suits for every character and the game not wanting to punish you for your choices) to defend your "Jack outfit is breaking the immersion". It is only your bad decision making that send Jack on that particular and very unique (why are we even talking about that ?) example of mass effect 2. For I when I knew the threat in the mission decided to take character that suit the mission and my immersion was not broken. In that case you are the only one breaking the immersion. I mean I could shot in the presidium, the dev allowed me to do that while you shouldn't. But I know it's a gameplay limitation and have to tell myself not to do it, if you don't want to play by the RPG rule then don't complain it do not work.
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Post by boyaki on Mar 14, 2017 18:12:55 GMT
We could argue that everyone should borrow an Atlas when traveling. Also when traveling on a planet so dangerous for the human body instead of taking someone who has no experience on that field and nothing to do with the mission I might want to take the one used to manipulate armor, fight with him and with actual skill. You had like 9 squadmate and only 2 you could bring, why take the naked one when you know the hazard ? I am starting to question your ability to manage human life ! Maybe you should not decide their equipment either. That is like going on Tutchanka without grunt in mass effect 2...i guess you could do it, but it is stupid. We're questioning your ability to differentiate between fantasy and reality. Could you elaborate ? You seem very proficient in one -liner, but on various occasion I asked you to elaborate but you never do that. You just slam. You could say I am wrong, but at least you could explain me why. That would make me the stupid one, clearly worth it. But instead you prefer to say things like Dark soul is the paladin of micromanagment and drop the mic.. I think it is a stupid thing to bring jack on a burning planet to solve a geth/quarian problem. So I do not do it, and I don't complain because theorically I could do it. This is basically differentiate fantasy from reality. I want to play a realistic game so I apply a realistic reason other than "I bring jack because I can but i'm going to complain anyway" That is a very childish way to behave.
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Post by malgus on Mar 14, 2017 18:39:18 GMT
Let's just hope we shall get skins for our companion in the future.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 14, 2017 19:22:49 GMT
It's not enough to get skins. They also have to be better skins.
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Post by Sahl on Mar 14, 2017 21:21:24 GMT
I will write what I did in a few similar threads, because at its core, the reason is the same.
ME series (and all other Bioware series for that sake) has become mainstream and focus on appealing, not just to old RPG fans, but even more to new age gamers and console players.
Why does this mean we wont have "loot/customable" gear/weapons for our companions ?
Well the limitations of consoles actually play abit of a role here and its just not a good mix. Imagine playing BG on console (yes they tried it) its just not appealing to most "console" only gamers. As for the new age gamers, they don't want too much deepth, they want action! lots of it and fast pace (contra older rpg fans)
If you look at the changes we saw in ME2, DA2, you will see that all of these factors are considered and inplemented! This is why alot of RPG pc gamers felt like they were let down and it actually had a huge impact on how we see Bioware games.
Now don't get me wrong! I still think the story and choices in Bioware games are awesome and its what make it worth playing for me, the limitations of companions and the dumbed down skill system or as it becomes now "do what you want whenever" its a natural evolution. If it was anything like the old days or a updatet system of those, then most new age gamers would be mad about it (they are the dominant playerbase of consoles)
So its pretty natural. I don't mind it anymore. Because slapping a DLC or given up an option to put on 1 or 2 different amours/weapons makes little difference to me...
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Post by Iakus on Mar 14, 2017 21:27:05 GMT
It's not enough to get skins. They also have to be better skins. More appropriate skins
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Post by Iakus on Mar 14, 2017 21:29:02 GMT
But isn't the armor not protecting you on that planet ? I mean if it is killing you in seconds without the shields then maybe being trap in an armor does not seem to be that great a deal, unless they have instant cooling device. The goal is not to break the shield. What do you think radiation powerful enough to fry shields is going to do to bare skin?...
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 14, 2017 21:55:04 GMT
It's not enough to get skins. They also have to be better skins. More appropriate skins Right. I shouldn't assume shared values here. If everyone agreed that more appropriate = better we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Post by chugster on Mar 15, 2017 13:09:28 GMT
Has anyone actually confirmed that squadmate's armor and/or weapon doesnt change during the story? The various tweets only seem to indicate that we cant change their armor/weapon...one tweet said 'they do their own thing' which would hint that the squadmates themselves can change their own equipment.
Also there is a possibility that squadmate skills, which I assume we can control, may also affect what weapon/armor is equipped.
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Post by Addictress on Mar 15, 2017 15:24:57 GMT
Well Mass Effect 2 was like that. You could give them loyalty skins but I never did. It's not important to me.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 15, 2017 15:55:13 GMT
Has anyone actually confirmed that squadmate's armor and/or weapon doesnt change during the story? The various tweets only seem to indicate that we cant change their armor/weapon...one tweet said 'they do their own thing' which would hint that the squadmates themselves can change their own equipment. Also there is a possibility that squadmate skills, which I assume we can control, may also affect what weapon/armor is equipped. bsn.boards.net/post/394530
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Post by chugster on Mar 15, 2017 15:59:21 GMT
Has anyone actually confirmed that squadmate's armor and/or weapon doesnt change during the story? The various tweets only seem to indicate that we cant change their armor/weapon...one tweet said 'they do their own thing' which would hint that the squadmates themselves can change their own equipment. Also there is a possibility that squadmate skills, which I assume we can control, may also affect what weapon/armor is equipped. bsn.boards.net/post/394530Cheers, ive stayed away from the spoiler thread so didnt see that confirmation.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 15, 2017 16:01:28 GMT
Cheers, ive stayed away from the spoiler thread so didnt see that confirmation. If it makes you feel better, the poll in that thread is currently running about 80/20 in favor of adding more customization options to companions
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Post by chugster on Mar 15, 2017 16:15:03 GMT
well TBH i can see both sides of the argument, in films you never see the lead turning to a member of his professional gang/crew and telling them to change clothes (unless its a disguise) so i can see how its a thing here. In ME2 & 3 I did alter outfits and weapons but only usually once, once they were in a look i liked. But on the other hand I rarely took alot of notice of my companions during combat missions....the only time you really notice their outfit is during a casual cutscene...and you cant change that in any game.
For example, I dont mind the default armors/outfits in ME3 and I wouldnt be bothered if I couldnt change them but Im glad I could, IMO Liara looked better in the white armored outfit but her default was still practical and Garrus looks good in his default but better in the 'terminus armor' he has available.
It seems like alternate outfits are coming so ill just stick with the defaults for now. Looks like ill be too busy customizing Ryder's armor and weapons to even notice
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Post by n7operative84 on Mar 15, 2017 16:32:17 GMT
For me, it is no big loss. In Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2, and Mass Effect 3, team mates have NEVER made a huge difference in combat , more so in Mass Effect 2. Maybe at level 1 to 10 enemies (squishy), teammates could take enemies down, but not hard or insanity. It has always come down to teammate powers that help take down enemies. Like most games with friendly team mates, they only do like 5 percent damage , whereas you the player did the majority damage. If anything teammates were and are good distractions for the enemy AI , while you attack to keep pressure off yourself.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 15, 2017 16:57:04 GMT
True, but that's all bad design itself.
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Post by veky359 on Mar 16, 2017 19:40:42 GMT
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