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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 14, 2017 1:33:14 GMT
If people want spandex or midriff baring attire on their voyages of exploration, fine. But I want an OPTION for something that makes more sense. This is a completely different situation. Wanting the option to cover them up is fair and reasonable request. Arguments for it should not be based on "scientific" explanations.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 14, 2017 1:33:40 GMT
Planetary hazards in ME1. Biotic characters are just as vulnerable to them without proper armor. Including Liara Not talking about Biotic characters. We are discussing Asari specifically which had been genetically enhanced by the Protheans to be more adept and in tune with mass effect field manipulation. The argument here is also gameplay. Planetary hazards in ME1 applied to the entire party as a whole, and given that the game ends if the player dies, there is no point in applying separate hazards thresholds to your squad members. Moving the goalposts. Again.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 14, 2017 1:35:57 GMT
Moving the goalposts. Again. Explain how? You can't provide evidence based on gameplay mechanics fo scientific context. That's as absurd as claiming that humans can be in fighting condition after resting for a few seconds after being shot in the face in shooters.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Mar 14, 2017 1:36:56 GMT
No, you came up with a nonsensical option - what's the point of armor at all if the skin gel exists? They'd all be wearing it instead. Logic is not your strong suit. Because an armor would offer other benefit than a gel made to avoid burning or freezing. like shock, radiation, bullets and so on. If the only problem is temperature then no armor is not the only solution. I mean really...why do I have to explain such a thing. And just before you ask "Then why does she not wear an armor" I will answer "because she is not a soldier, and for her line of work, fighting style and personnal style it is enough" It is not far-fetched to have environmental protection in form of a gel...It already exist for goddam sake... But somehow the colonization program in the future would lose that tech and not have anything that helps them colonize those planets ? Come on... If you find this gel in the codex let me know. Meanwhile, saying silly stuff like "she's not a soldier" while she's putting herself in both extreme climates and extreme hostile situations doesn't hold water. She'd still need the protective gear that a soldier would require, or in this case, any soft squishy being exploring and fighting in hostile and varied climes requires.
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Post by boyaki on Mar 14, 2017 1:37:12 GMT
I don't see the problem with Jack. We did not see her hanging in space or in acid bath no ? I mean you recruit her for a suicide mission not for hanging out, if you want to go on a toxic planet grabing some loot take those who have experience in that domain. I don't see what would Jack bring in those situation she is extremely unfamiliar with.
A part from a select few mission (and they are all optional), jack outfit does not have any inconstency. her wearing a constant uniform would be a deal breaker and if you can't deal with her not being well dressed because she is too stubborn then leave her be and don't recruit her. If she was casually swimming outside of the Normandy there would be a problem but that is not the case.
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Post by brian on Mar 14, 2017 1:37:25 GMT
I approve. I don't want to manage every companion. I want them to be autonomous enough to handle that themselves.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 14, 2017 1:37:27 GMT
Moving the goalposts. Again. Explain how? You can't provide evidence based on gameplay mechanics to show proof of reality. That's as absurd as claiming that humans can regenerate after being shot instantly because they rested for 3 seconds in shooters. Sure I can. It's weak proof, but it's more than you have.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 14, 2017 1:38:09 GMT
If you find this gel in the codex let me know. Meanwhile, saying silly stuff like "she's not a soldier" while she's putting herself in both extreme climates and extreme hostile situations doesn't hold water. She'd still need the protective gear that a soldier would require, or in this case, any soft squishy being exploring and fighting in hostile and varied climes requires. IfYou can't tell someone to provide proof when you have none of your own. Stop applying human physiology to Asari, as well as modern technological levels to those centuries ahead of us.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Mar 14, 2017 1:38:22 GMT
If people want spandex or midriff baring attire on their voyages of exploration, fine. But I want an OPTION for something that makes more sense. This is a completely different situation. Wanting the option to cover them up is fair and reasonable request. Arguments for it should not be based on "scientific" explanations. Yes, they should require "scientific" explanations because the Mass Effect world goes to great lengths to explain things in "scientific" terms via its codex.
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Post by hammerstorm on Mar 14, 2017 1:38:54 GMT
The spaghetti monster exist. Prove me wrong. When someone is coming with a opinion that they say is true, they usually are responsible to give proof first. And I have already said in a former post, that if they (Bioware) just had said: "prolonged usage of Biotic will harden the skin and make it more resilient to damage/environmental danger". And they would be free to make their blue spacebabes run around in bikins. But since they haven't, here we are. Actually you're the ones making claims about the situation being presumably implausible, using irrelevant context (applying human physiology to Asari) or incomplete ones (insuffucient knowledg) Given that Asari gave historically been shown to not wear full helmets, there is consistency. They don't need to outline it anywhere, just like they don't have to outline the shape of a Quarians genitals. No, you made the claim that they have a layer that protect them, so if you have any proof of that I would like to see that. And what "historical" fact do you mean? Because in mass effect 1 they sure needed armor to survive. We also have humans not wearing helmets (heck Jack is walking around with bare skin) does that prove that humans also have a layer of biotic protection? And what does the genitals of a species have to do with this? And yes, if they want to make any sense they have to outline the fact that they don't need armor. So to you have ANY proof that they have a protective layer of biotic that protect against environmental damage (which biotics don't do anyway.) otherwise I will have to see this as an attempt to troll. And I will repeat myself: If Bioware give an explanation in the game I will accept it. But until then I will use the facts that we have in the codex.
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Post by VanSinn on Mar 14, 2017 1:38:59 GMT
Not talking about Biotic characters. We are discussing Asari specifically which had been genetically enhanced by the Protheans to be more adept and in tune with mass effect field manipulation. The argument here is also gameplay. Planetary hazards in ME1 applied to the entire party as a whole, and given that the game ends if the player dies, there is no point in applying separate hazards thresholds to your squad members. Moving the goalposts. Again. Umm...wasn't Liara an Asari? And so would STILL fall under the "moved goal posts"? Liara, an Asari, suffered environmental damage like the rest of the squad unless she had on proper gear that protected from those hazards. And the gameplay mechanic that gives an mission fail when Shepard dies is irrelevant to whether or not Liara took environmental damage without proper protection.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 14, 2017 1:39:02 GMT
Explain how? You can't provide evidence based on gameplay mechanics to show proof of reality. That's as absurd as claiming that humans can regenerate after being shot instantly because they rested for 3 seconds in shooters. Sure I can. It's weak proof, but it's more than you have. No. No you can't. It's not proof because it's based on gameplay. It's like saying humans don't have to use the bathroom because we don't use it in game.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 14, 2017 1:39:31 GMT
I approve. I don't want to manage every companion. I want them to be autonomous enough to handle that themselves. Then Peebee should die as soon as she sets food on an inhospitable planet. She thought she could handle it, right?
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Mar 14, 2017 1:39:36 GMT
If you find this gel in the codex let me know. Meanwhile, saying silly stuff like "she's not a soldier" while she's putting herself in both extreme climates and extreme hostile situations doesn't hold water. She'd still need the protective gear that a soldier would require, or in this case, any soft squishy being exploring and fighting in hostile and varied climes requires. IfYou can't tell someone to provide proof when you have none of your own. Stop applying human physiology to Asari, as well as modern technological levels to those centuries ahead of us. The games apply human physiology to Asari, so I'm just asking the games to be consistent.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 14, 2017 1:40:39 GMT
If you find this gel in the codex let me know. Meanwhile, saying silly stuff like "she's not a soldier" while she's putting herself in both extreme climates and extreme hostile situations doesn't hold water. She'd still need the protective gear that a soldier would require, or in this case, any soft squishy being exploring and fighting in hostile and varied climes requires. IfYou can't tell someone to provide proof when you have none of your own. Stop applying human physiology to Asari, as well as modern technological levels to those centuries ahead of us. Hey, you're the one asserting that asari have an environmentally sealed biotic barrier around their bodies.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 14, 2017 1:42:02 GMT
Yes, they should require "scientific" explanations because the Mass Effect world goes to great lengths to explain things in "scientific" terms via its codex. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because it's not outlined, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Using your logic, there is nothing to indicate that Asari do not have the ability to resist minor environmental hazards, especially when there is plenty of context regarding Asari being genetically uplifted specifically in their use of biotics as well as mass effect fields being capable of repelling matter.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 14, 2017 1:42:49 GMT
The games apply human physiology to Asari, so I'm just asking the games to be consistent. They apply external humanoid physiology. It's true they look like humans (space babes) but they are still not human.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 14, 2017 1:44:13 GMT
Hey, you're the one asserting that asari have an environmentally sealed biotic barrier around their bodies. It's not an assertion. It's a counterargument to the assertion that Asari not having full coverage is unrealistic. I could be wrong. Point is you could be wrong as well.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Mar 14, 2017 1:45:28 GMT
The games apply human physiology to Asari, so I'm just asking the games to be consistent. They apply external humanoid physiology. It's true they look like humans (space babes) but they are still not human. Yes, the external humanoid physiology that's soft and squishy thus requiring them to wear protective gear in extreme situations - which you see them do in all three games of the OT. PB should wear that gear when called for - they can "personalize" it the same way they did in Inquisition while still maintaining a pleasing veneer of plausibility and internal story logic.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 14, 2017 1:45:33 GMT
Then Peebee should die as soon as she sets food on an inhospitable planet. She thought she could handle it, right? Who are you to tell an Asari what they can't handle?
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Post by boyaki on Mar 14, 2017 1:46:00 GMT
Because an armor would offer other benefit than a gel made to avoid burning or freezing. like shock, radiation, bullets and so on. If the only problem is temperature then no armor is not the only solution. I mean really...why do I have to explain such a thing. And just before you ask "Then why does she not wear an armor" I will answer "because she is not a soldier, and for her line of work, fighting style and personnal style it is enough" It is not far-fetched to have environmental protection in form of a gel...It already exist for goddam sake... But somehow the colonization program in the future would lose that tech and not have anything that helps them colonize those planets ? Come on... If you find this gel in the codex let me know. Meanwhile, saying silly stuff like "she's not a soldier" while she's putting herself in both extreme climates and extreme hostile situations doesn't hold water. She'd still need the protective gear that a soldier would require, or in this case, any soft squishy being exploring and fighting in hostile and varied climes requires. Yet again isolant gel do exist in current world. And it is not about finding in the lore something to justify her look that's non sense. If the writer want to have Pee Bee exposing her tummy to the world then they came with a reason allowing it...lore does not magically appear out of some archive. If the subject is never addressed in game and that for some reason Pee Bee can enjoy freezing cold then I would agree with you but the game is not out yet and supposing they would not address that problem is an illogical way of thinking. It would be like if I said the whole AI to be impossible because nothing in the lore say that such a travel is possible. The core concept of the AI is to be a colonizing organization, following that principle it is easy to guess that the AI full of scientist has come up with solutions to survive the envionment, the alternative would have been the death of everyone. On various occasion we can see people hanging out in the colonies...isn't that a sign it is possible ? Once again, basic logic. If you don't agree then explain why the AI would have not find any solution or why people in video does not need armor to survive.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Mar 14, 2017 1:46:59 GMT
Then Peebee should die as soon as she sets food on an inhospitable planet. She thought she could handle it, right? Who are you to tell an Asari what they can't handle? The games have already told us what they can and can't handle - by making them wear protective gear previously.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 14, 2017 1:47:16 GMT
Yes, the external humanoid physiology that's soft and squishy thus requiring them to wear protective gear in extreme situations - which you see them do in all three games of the OT. PB should wear that gear when called for - the can "personalize" it the same way they did in Inquisition while still maintaining a pleasing veneer of plausibility and internal story logic. Soft and squishy is an assumption. We don't know that. Yes they do wear full armor on occasions. It may be for practical reasons rather than necessary ones. I am not arguing against customization. It sucks that you can't do it. I'm totally for the ability to cover them up if you want to, but arguments against it should not be based on flimsy scientific arguments of "nonrealism".
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Post by RoboticWater on Mar 14, 2017 1:47:28 GMT
You're arguing a separate topic. I've already agreed that the midriff business doesn't make a whole lot of sense. However, whether or not you have direct control over your squad mates' attire is entirely independent of how environmentally safe their attire is. Would you be satisfied if BioWare gave you the option between catsuits, bikinis, or banana hammocks? I'm guessing no. Now you're just arguing rediuctio ad absurdum. If people want spandex or midriff baring attire on their voyages of exploration, fine. But I want an OPTION for something that makes more sense. No, you've just ignored the argument up to this point, and now you're trying to wriggle out with pseudo-intellectualism. I've not once contested the absurdity of midriffs and catsuits in space. I think they're pretty dumb given the context. This conversation started when you asserted that customizing your companions in an RPG was like a dress code, and that a dress code doesn't limit a person's ability to express themselves. I disagree on both counts. The way you dress up your companions in an RPG is not like a dress code; you dress them like dolls. They get no say in what they get to wear, so they loose the one avenue with which they might express themselves. I think this is a shame. Less importantly, I disagreed with the notion that a dress code didn't limit personal expression. It's not as harsh as forcibly choosing a specific outfit, but it does limit expression. Finally, I proposed that having some reaction from your squad mate when you chose their outfit or set their dress code would be nice, but resource intensive. You only ever seemed to agree with that, except for the resources part, which you seemed to ignore. You're the one who brought up the implausibility of our companion's attire. I've, again, only ever agreed with that. However, seeing as I proposed a scenario where you can have appearance options, but can't equip environmentally safe gear (this is, in fact, how it worked with Jack's alternate appearance in ME2 IIRC), I think we can both conclude that plausibility of attire and control over squad mate gear are entirely separate issues.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 14, 2017 1:48:32 GMT
Who are you to tell an Asari what they can't handle? The games have already told us what they can and can't handle - by making them wear protective gear previously. Again, it can be for practical usage rather than out of necessity I mean... it's basic common sense to wear armor to deflect bullets. Apparently Peebee thinks her Biotic shields are enough. That's her choice. I hope she doesn't die!
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