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Post by blanks on Mar 12, 2017 5:31:28 GMT
You can outfit companions in Skyrim and Fallout. Yeah. Pretty much every RPG with companions lets you do this. Witcher 3 doesn't have companions. I never had a companion in Skyrim. Does that mean my playthrough wasn't an RPG? It's a pretty shitty excuse for an RPG. But you stated a couple of things that were demonstrably false, I wasn't really looking to get into it with you. Seems like a waste of time given your posting style.
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Post by goishen on Mar 12, 2017 5:35:48 GMT
Can't customize companion outfits Can't customize (or equip) companion weapons Minimal tactical control over combat Unarmed Tempest Unarmed Nomad Too much "streamlining" if you ask me. I won't argue with you about streamlining squad mate customization, though it's not as if recent Mass Effect's have given us much versatility in that regard, and I don't recall any Mass Effect having squad mate customization that actually made a perceivable difference in combat. They only ever amounted to an extra smidge of DPS and a few more power slots. "Tactics," however, is being used like yet another buzzword in the vein of "RPG elements," in that it really just means "things I like." Pausing and access to squad powers usage has been lost, yet now we a jetpack, sustained abilities, and profiles. We don't have less tactics we have different tactics, and quite honestly, I'll take verticality over most "RPG" enhancements. And honestly, you can't genuinely believe that an unarmed Tempest and Nomad is evidence of streamlining. We haven't had a vehicle for the past two games at all (ignoring DLC), and the Normandy was never actually used in gameplay, what was there to streamline? You're trying so desperately to weave a narrative here, when there's really no need to. Anything's gonna look like shit if you keep dragging every little nit pick into your grand conspiracy. Have you ever been skeet shooting? Jesus christ. I'm sick of this. I saw in CoD, I saw in TF, now I'm seeing it in ME. I didn't mind it in COD and TF, because I didn't play TF or CoD. But if something is above you, you blow it the fuck out of the sky. It's that simple. Apparently they don't in this game, because the AI is stupid as shit.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 12, 2017 5:38:48 GMT
Still this is unbelievably dumb on their part. Bioware has always amazed me in the past few years over how much they can drop the ball on certain elements of their games. Sounds like this will be a big one for ME:A. These developers have the blueprints on what works and what doesn't work in their games. Hell it can be argued that in terms of interacting with fans during development, Bioware does it more than most companies. They KNOW what we like and don't like. There has NEVER been any indication from fans that we want less customization for squadmates. If anything, we've always called for more customization. You sure about the italed? Sure, we whined on the boards about ME2 going to iconic looks over ME1's system, but the game succeeded just fine anyway. So, what percentage of players missed having an inventory? I don't know, and I don't know how Bio would know. For all we know, DAI tracking data proved that nobody cared about gear for anybody but the Inquisitor.
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Post by midnightwolf on Mar 12, 2017 5:42:34 GMT
Again? I thought they learned this lesson with DA:2. It's one of the most disliked things about that game!
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Post by shaqfu on Mar 12, 2017 5:43:59 GMT
Forgive me if it has already been answered. But did they mention if we will still be able to mod and tweak the companion weapons at least? I'm ok with them having certain weapons as long as we can at least keep them updated and equal in power to say the ultra rare stuff we might get later.
As far as armor goes, I am a bit disappointed it sounds like they wont even be getting 1 alt outfit like previous games. Though I'm sure they are plotting that for some good ol fashioned paid dlc.
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Post by Cypher on Mar 12, 2017 5:44:17 GMT
That's "next generation Bioware" RPG gaming for you. Next generation Bioware game = Mainstreamed dumbed down game with diversity quotas for characters and romances. Oh for Pete's sake. Dumbing down of RPG elements because you can't change squad member's outfits? What are the most heavily touted RPG's of the last five years. Skyrim and The (Glorious and Almighty) Witcher 3. In either of those pinnacles of RPG-dom could you change squadmates' weapons or outfits? NO?! Then stop complaining that this is somehow part of what makes an RPG an RPG. We have many more RPG elements in MEA than ME3. Different tones of voice, exploration, crafting, inventory management, decisions on who to wake up from Cryo to affect change, etc. Which ME3 vehicle were we on that had a main gun on it? Oh, that's right: none. When was it we controlled the Normandy's weapons? Never. Please explain how limited choice in squad outfit when they NEVER affected anything about gameplay negates the addition of crafting, deep weapon customization, and all the new elements? Skyrim and Witcher are games that revolve a singular character and their solo adventures, Mass Effect is about main character and friends. There's a difference.
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Post by midnightwolf on Mar 12, 2017 5:47:32 GMT
Oh for Pete's sake. Dumbing down of RPG elements because you can't change squad member's outfits? What are the most heavily touted RPG's of the last five years. Skyrim and The (Glorious and Almighty) Witcher 3. In either of those pinnacles of RPG-dom could you change squadmates' weapons or outfits? NO?! Then stop complaining that this is somehow part of what makes an RPG an RPG. We have many more RPG elements in MEA than ME3. Different tones of voice, exploration, crafting, inventory management, decisions on who to wake up from Cryo to affect change, etc. Which ME3 vehicle were we on that had a main gun on it? Oh, that's right: none. When was it we controlled the Normandy's weapons? Never. Please explain how limited choice in squad outfit when they NEVER affected anything about gameplay negates the addition of crafting, deep weapon customization, and all the new elements? Skyrim and Witcher are games that revolve a singular character and their solo adventures, Mass Effect is about main character and friends. There's a difference. While I agree with you, I must point out that you can in fact change a followers weapon and armour in Skyrim. The Witcher 3 however, shouldn't even be a part of this thread since you have NO FOLLOWERS. So please be quiet TW3 fan boys!
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 12, 2017 5:48:42 GMT
The only way I can see this not being a bad thing, is if our companions are REALLY good at what they do. Thinking BW AI gonna be good. That's a good one.
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Post by Hier0phant on Mar 12, 2017 5:48:50 GMT
This just keeps on getting better.
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Post by RoboticWater on Mar 12, 2017 5:49:28 GMT
The weapons our squad in ME1-3 didn't give them their personality. Their personality gave them their personality. You telling me the way Jack looked had nothing to do with her personality? Her change in appearance between 2 and 3 wasn't purely coincidental. And weapons obviously never mattered to our squad mates' personalities. We were always forcing them to use the ones we wanted. People have a tendency to place special significance upon their possessions. Everyone has preferences for their attire and even strong feelings about certain baubles (warriors with their weapons, especially). This is an annoying limitation in RPG. In an effort to maximize player agency, some if it must be stripped from the companions. Once we're in control of their decisions, it's hard to make them seem autonomous within their own world. They're just playthings–dolls for dress-up. Planescape: Torment, quite uniquely, did not allow players to change certain items on their companions or even remove others from their inventory. The game didn't have much in the way of loot (read: there are, like, two sets of armor you can acquire in the entire game, and they're both for companions), but the permanence of those objects gave them a significance that might otherwise be lost. Conversely, in Pillars of Eternity, a more recent CRPG, you're given total control over your companion's inventory, so unique items like your priest's staff, which may contain part of that dude's soul can not only be unequipped, but sold without a whimper. That strikes me as a very poor meshing between narrative and mechanics. Now, I'm not about to applaud BioWare for making such a bold stride towards strong NPC agency and object symbolism, because the decision probably wasn't a deliberate artistic choice so much as a acceptance of limited resources. And something tells me that BioWare probably won't capitalize on the constraint by changing a character's clothing in synch with their character arc or giving special narrative significance to a character's weapon. In that way BioWare might allow us to customize our companions via a less direct story decision. But regardless of what BioWare ultimately does (or doesn't do as the case may be) with the new restriction, my point is that the principle is not "retarded." Design in interactive media is almost exclusively about affordance, i.e. what a user can and indeed, cannot do within an action space, and I firmly believe that restricting the player's direct influence over our companions is the only way to make them appear more real.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 12, 2017 5:52:08 GMT
Er guys we haven't been able to change their armor and weapons for a while now lol... since ME2 I believe.
What makes this a surprise exactly?
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Post by Cypher on Mar 12, 2017 5:52:45 GMT
Skyrim and Witcher are games that revolve a singular character and their solo adventures, Mass Effect is about main character and friends. There's a difference. While I agree with you, I must point out that you can in fact change a followers weapon and armour in Skyrim. The Witcher 3 however, shouldn't even be a part of this thread since you have NO FOLLOWERS. So please be quiet TW3 fan boys! Aren't followers in Skyrim kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of things? I don't know personally since I hate anything Bethesda does in house and haven't played Skyrim longer than the intro.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Mar 12, 2017 5:52:56 GMT
Oh for Pete's sake. Dumbing down of RPG elements because you can't change squad member's outfits? What are the most heavily touted RPG's of the last five years. Skyrim and The (Glorious and Almighty) Witcher 3. In either of those pinnacles of RPG-dom could you change squadmates' weapons or outfits? NO?! Then stop complaining that this is somehow part of what makes an RPG an RPG. We have many more RPG elements in MEA than ME3. Different tones of voice, exploration, crafting, inventory management, decisions on who to wake up from Cryo to affect change, etc. Which ME3 vehicle were we on that had a main gun on it? Oh, that's right: none. When was it we controlled the Normandy's weapons? Never. Please explain how limited choice in squad outfit when they NEVER affected anything about gameplay negates the addition of crafting, deep weapon customization, and all the new elements? Skyrim and Witcher are games that revolve a singular character and their solo adventures, Mass Effect is about main character and friends. There's a difference. My point was that it's not a necessary RPG element because other more acclaimed RPG's don't even have that capability. But you are right. I apologise. I was told by blanks that I have poor posting style, so I need to work on that.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 12, 2017 5:53:09 GMT
Er guys we haven't been able to change their armor and weapons for a while now lol... since ME2 I believe. What makes this a surprise exactly? ? What game were you playing. You had a choice between armors (It might've only been 2 but there was a choice and in ME3 they had different bonuses) even in ME2 and you could always change weapons (within the types they used yes but there were multiple weapons to choose from).
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Post by areskeith on Mar 12, 2017 5:54:09 GMT
Er guys we haven't been able to change their armor and weapons for a while now lol... since ME2 I believe. What makes this a surprise exactly? To be fair, the surprise is more that after all this time they would've went the DAI route since it was well received or at least have done what they did in ME3
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Post by Cypher on Mar 12, 2017 5:54:22 GMT
Er guys we haven't been able to change their armor and weapons for a while now lol... since ME2 I believe. What makes this a surprise exactly? You can change styles in ME2 between default and loyalty + DLC armors and the squad in ME3 had multiple looks, armored looks included, at default with ME3 on top of a handful of DLC armors. And you could change squad weapons. Certain weapons were restricted by class and type, but if I wanted Ashley to use the Disciple over the Katana, I could make it happen.
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Post by midnightwolf on Mar 12, 2017 5:55:27 GMT
While I agree with you, I must point out that you can in fact change a followers weapon and armour in Skyrim. The Witcher 3 however, shouldn't even be a part of this thread since you have NO FOLLOWERS. So please be quiet TW3 fan boys! Aren't followers in Skyrim kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of things? I don't know personally since I hate anything Bethesda does in house and haven't played Skyrim longer than the intro. Yes they are, BUT you can still customise them to make them more effective in battle, since they usually have crappy armour and weapons by default.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 12, 2017 5:56:19 GMT
While I agree with you, I must point out that you can in fact change a followers weapon and armour in Skyrim. The Witcher 3 however, shouldn't even be a part of this thread since you have NO FOLLOWERS. So please be quiet TW3 fan boys! Aren't followers in Skyrim kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of things? I don't know personally since I hate anything Bethesda does in house and haven't played Skyrim longer than the intro. Seriously just use the immortal Lydia and call it a day in Skyrim. It's not like they make a difference otherwise other than being packmules.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 12, 2017 5:56:27 GMT
Er guys we haven't been able to change their armor and weapons for a while now lol... since ME2 I believe. What makes this a surprise exactly? ? What game were you playing. You had a choice between armors (It might've only been 2 but there was a choice) in ME2 and you could always change weapons (within the types they used yes but there were multiple weapons to choose from). Well you have to go back to ME2 and even then we had two choices. Big deal. I forgot about the weapon customization (mods) in ME3 though.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 12, 2017 5:58:42 GMT
? What game were you playing. You had a choice between armors (It might've only been 2 but there was a choice) in ME2 and you could always change weapons (within the types they used yes but there were multiple weapons to choose from). Well you have to go back to ME2 and even then we had two choices. Big deal. I forgot about the weapon customization (mods) in ME3 though. ME3 had more choices what do you mean go back to ME2. ME2 was the one with the LEAST amount of choice. It's not something that should be lauded. (especially given how laughable some of the outfits were). It's on the level of "Well DA2's repeating dungeon's weren't THAT bad so let's do them again." And the weapon customization in ME3 was well done not sure why they backpedaled.
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Post by Typhons Bioheat on Mar 12, 2017 5:59:23 GMT
That's "next generation Bioware" RPG gaming for you. Next generation Bioware game = Mainstreamed dumbed down game with diversity quotas for characters and romances. Oh for Pete's sake. Dumbing down of RPG elements because you can't change squad member's outfits? What are the most heavily touted RPG's of the last five years. Skyrim and The (Glorious and Almighty) Witcher 3. In either of those pinnacles of RPG-dom could you change squadmates' weapons or outfits? NO?! Then stop complaining that this is somehow part of what makes an RPG an RPG. We have many more RPG elements in MEA than ME3. Different tones of voice, exploration, crafting, inventory management, decisions on who to wake up from Cryo to affect change, etc. Which ME3 vehicle were we on that had a main gun on it? Oh, that's right: none. When was it we controlled the Normandy's weapons? Never. Please explain how limited choice in squad outfit when they NEVER affected anything about gameplay negates the addition of crafting, deep weapon customization, and all the new elements? Sorry to burst your bubble of ignorance on this matter but Skyrim had the capability for the player to change their follower's weapons, armor and apparel since day 1 of their launch. As for Witcher 3, it was built from the ground up as the the story of Geralt of Rivia, instead of being a party-based or party-focused game. I don't recall Bioware saying that MEA is built from the ground up as the story of Ryder twins and will focus on the individual, not the party. Most importantly, even Dragon Age Inquisition had the capability for the player to change their followers' weapons and outfits while still retaining the unique look that the followers themselves have. Furthermore, one can make the case that since good RPG games have limitations enforced on the player (you can't be anything or anyone that you like at any point in the game), therefore you can also say that MEA is not a very good RPG game because it allows the player to be anything or anyone on the fly even though the lore of Mass Effect on things such as human biotics which require special biotic amps means that you can't just switch from engineer to adept to soldier on the fly. Heck, even the sandbox game Skyrim had limitations whereby you could only reset your skills in something once you have reached max level in it.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 12, 2017 6:01:55 GMT
Man don't get me started on how much I hate profiles. The whole point of biotics is that they're special (crappy special but yeah). Now Ryder can flip from biotic to infiltrator? Fuck outta here. That SAM excuse better be the best.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 12, 2017 6:02:12 GMT
Er guys we haven't been able to change their armor and weapons for a while now lol... since ME2 I believe. What makes this a surprise exactly? You can change styles in ME2 between default and loyalty + DLC armors and the squad in ME3 had multiple looks, armored looks included, at default with ME3 on top of a handful of DLC armors. And you could change squad weapons. Certain weapons were restricted by class and type, but if I wanted Ashley to use the Disciple over the Katana, I could make it happen. K stop reaching. Point is it was never in the same scope as Dragon Age customization. At best we could mod their weapons a bit. In MEA we'll have more options for customization elsewhere so trying to argue out of context is illogical. Also that tweet is probably being taken out of context. There's a difference between customizing someone's armor set and unlocking different armor sets / colors schemes. In fact there was a tweet about having a team all in pink outfits or whatever.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 12, 2017 6:03:10 GMT
I never had a companion in Skyrim. Does that mean my playthrough wasn't an RPG? It's a pretty shitty excuse for an RPG. But you stated a couple of things that were demonstrably false, I wasn't really looking to get into it with you. Seems like a waste of time given your posting style. You could come up with a a few more CRPGs with companions but without companion outfit control. Planescape:Torment comes to mind, as does NWN, although the latter was more of a design trainwreck than a design decision.
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Post by The Elder King on Mar 12, 2017 6:04:08 GMT
Man don't get me started on how much I hate profiles. The whole point of biotics is that they're special (crappy special but yeah). Now Ryder can flip from biotic to infiltrator? Fuck outta here. That SAM excuse better be the best. Ryder is still canonically a biotic, regardless if SAM's excuse will be good or not.
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